Governor: Gunmen fired at MPs protecting supplies in Louisiana

Governor: Gunmen fired at MPs protecting supplies in Louisiana

blogs.usatoday.com

Gov. Bobby Jindal says members of the National Guard came under fire this morning in Ville Platte, La.

"Sometime after midnight, somewhere between two and three criminals, we believe they were attempting to loot those supplies, actually opened fire," he says. "They fired about five or six shots at the National Guardsmen. The MPs, the military police, that were there took shelter behind their military vehicle. They returned fire with their M-16 rifles. The criminals fled."

(visit the link for the full news article)



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So far the evacuation of the Gulf has been successful, with minimal deaths or injuries. I do wonder what to make of shots being exchanged between these looters and the National Guard MPs. I understand that those soldiers were only following their orders, but what would it have meant if one of the looters had been shot? For me, the fact that shots were fired either speaks to the stupidity of the looters, or perhaps that the situation in the area this occured is more dire than being reported.

Either way, the question if American soldiers would fire on their fellow Citizens has been answered. I pray that fewer of these situations occur, so that the Government will not be emboldened nor forced to act like this.

DocMoreau

blogs.usatoday.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

reply to post by DocMoreau


In that situation they were absolutely justified in firing back at the scum bags that shot at them. If provoked into a self defense situation I believe they have the right to protect themselves regardless if it is a citizen.

Can you guess who I'm thinking it was?

Knock knock...........any guns in here errrrrr........I mean anybody home???

Yes, we all know they're there for strictly humanitarian purposes. At least that's what my news tells me.

Peace

Originally posted by CaptGizmo
reply to post by DocMoreau

 

In that situation they were absolutely justified in firing back at the scum bags that shot at them. If provoked into a self defense situation I believe they have the right to protect themselves regardless if it is a citizen.

Absolutely correct.
I must add though that if it were Marine MP's there would be 3 dead criminal dirt-bags.

Perhaps whoever the looters were, were wondering if thos MP's had ammunition or were simply a show of force as troops on the street often are. Guardsmen and Regulars have been put on the streets with weapons and no ammuntion to go with it before. I don't consider having National Guard MP's on the street after a disaster improper to the runnings of a constitutional republic. Guardsmen are dually sworn to both the State and Federal government, and while operating in home state on a mission like this there chain of command runs through the state. These Guardsmen were operating in an area that has within recent memory shown a propensity for a total breakdown of order after a disaster. My take from the article is that they accomplished their mission(protect the supplies) and protected themselves (returned fire after receiving) in a reasonable manner consistent with both millitary ROE, Law-enforcement use of deadly force and even civillian self-defense standards. To read more into it than that is more than just a little paranoid.

The shame IMHO in the story is that they missed whoever was firing on them. Having a wounded or dead looter answers alot of questions. Like who it was, was it organized or impetuous, any associations (ie gang), and probably a couple more I can't think of right now.

[edit on 3-9-2008 by jefwane]

[edit on 3-9-2008 by jefwane]

reply to post by CaptGizmo

reply to post by 38181


They may have been 'justified' by their orders, please don't think I am condoning looting. I just don't like the the threshold of American Society that gets crossed when Citizens are ordered to shoot to kill other Citizens, no matter what the circumstances or justifications. Maybe I am a bit creeped out to have Jesse Ventura calling for full scale revolution, riots on the streets of St. Paul, and now this incident where Guardsmen are shooting at CItizens and Vice Versa.

One has to wonder who the 'looters' were if people were under curfew in the area, and a majority of the people evacuated. The 'looters' would seem to be a 'known entity' to the people in the area.

I guess what I am saying is perhaps the incident did not occur how it is being portrayed in the media....
DocMoreau

Originally posted by DocMoreau
reply to post by CaptGizmo

 

reply to post by 38181

 

They may have been 'justified' by their orders, please don't think I am condoning looting. I just don't like the the threshold of American Society that gets crossed when Citizens are ordered to shoot to kill other Citizens, no matter what the circumstances or justifications. Maybe I am a bit creeped out to have Jesse Ventura calling for full scale revolution, riots on the streets of St. Paul, and now this incident where Guardsmen are shooting at CItizens and Vice Versa.

One has to wonder who the 'looters' were if people were under curfew in the area, and a majority of the people evacuated. The 'looters' would seem to be a 'known entity' to the people in the area.

I guess what I am saying is perhaps the incident did not occur how it is being portrayed in the media....
DocMoreau

Reallity check, cops are citizens and shoot other citizens every day. There is nothing new under the sun here to see. Simple case of self defense. Too bad they got away, they'll be looking for gunless citizens to prey on from now on.

reply to post by DocMoreau


I have been doing security at a shelter in Shreveport, LA since this whole thing started we have had incidents with local gangs. They want to sell drugs or start fights. They have threatened the National Guard after one of their "boys" brought a firearm in to the area and was arrested.

When local gangs are threatening to bring their "posses, crews" to attack National Guard, there is a real freaking problem.

People may not see it, because you live here. Its like slowly boiling a frog.
The thing is, America is crossing a threshold. Into one that more and more resembles a third world country like Mexico. Louisiana is already beyond that threshold, especially after Katrina and now this. I have hope and faith in Governor Jindal though to bring us through tough times and help make a brighter future.

No one is talking about or wanting to raid homes or suppress freedom. The National Guard are everyday Americans, they work at regular stores or businesses, are college students, and live normal lives when they are not activated. We are just trying to do our job. We are trying to protect men, women, and children at these shelters and keep the peace. When gangbangers upset that order there is a very real problem.

For the first time in America, I felt the same way I did while I was in Iraq and Afghanistan. Here I am in uniform carrying an M-16 and worried about being shot or shot at. In my mind Im going over tactics and how I will react. Im looking around for potential cover and concealment.

I should not be doing that in the United States of America. This is supposed to be home. Its not supposed to be a warzone or frontlines. I should not be planning and thinking about those kind of things here. We should just be helping with relief work, but things are changing. America is becoming more and more dangerous. We are no longer the place we once were.

We had a european news crews come to where we were at. One of the guys had never been to America till now. I felt ashamed and embarrased that he had to see this America and not the America that I remember growing up in. I can only imagine the impression he had.

Taking away our freedoms isnt going to fix this. Charismatic windbags like Obama isnt going to fix this. Im not even sure if people like McCain want to fix this. We need people like our Governor who really cares about people, who turns down offers of high office to help his state.

Overall my point is that things are starting to fall apart. No one is talking about martial law or a police state being helpful. It would only make it more like Iraq and Afghanistan, which are under martial law. So rather than being critical over a unit's self defense, we need to address the real problems in our nation that is causing people to be bold enough to shoot at the Guard in the first place.





[edit on 3/9/08 by MikeboydUS]

If you understand how it is down here, you will understand them shooting back at the criminals. These are probably gangs, and probably the same ones that were shooting at the military during Hurricane Katrina. I know it was Ville Platte, but really, the New Orleans area needs a good cleansing. Something must be done about these terrible gangs. They are so dangerous, and don't care about the rights of anyone.

reply to post by Blueangel7


I guess that is what I was saying. That things are way worse down in that region than people let on. That perhaps for some, those Fema supplies, were necessities. Then again, it could be that they were in it for profit.

Either way, I 'understand' shooting back at the criminals. But what I don't understand the need to. Meaning, it seems much more Hollywood to shoot at them instead of apprehend them. I understand if you have to fire at the criminals to catch them. But it seems like they didn't pursue.

If soldiers are going to act as policeman, they need to act like policemen.
DocMoreau

reply to post by DocMoreau


You apparently dont know the gangs here very well or what the role of the National Guard is.

We are essentially Security and Peacekeeping Forces, we assist with humanitarian aid and relief efforts.

In addition to that I have never ever heard of a police officer trying to apprehend someone after being shot at. When you shoot at an officer your going to get shot back at least, if not shot and killed. Rarely does a shooter live and get apprehended, unless that shooter was shooting at someone other than the police.

When someone discharges a firearm at another person, it is an act using deadly force. That means all gloves are off and deadly force is used in response. This is not new, it has always been like this in this country. If someone does not like it, they can move to Canada where the police let murderers disembowel, dismember and then cannibalize victims while watching.

[edit on 5/9/08 by MikeboydUS]

reply to post by MikeboydUS


I did not mean to downplay the fine work the National Guard does. I know they I had just never heard of an altercation where they had ever returned fire on American Citizens before. I was under the impression that their use of deadly force against American Citizens was a 'new' thing.

Deadly gangs or not. It still makes me feel uncomfortable when people trying to acquire food and water, and are fired upon by their fellow citizens.

What the looters did was reprehensible, criminally firing on their fellow citizens. I understand that Police will fire on deadly criminals.

Either way, anyone of us could be one Natural Disaster from being in a similar situation of need. Hopefully none of us will ever have to be in the position where in order to survive that you have to fire on the National Guard in order to loot food and water.

DocMoreau