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Ukraine in snap election warning

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posted on Sep, 9 2008 @ 09:27 PM
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More News from Ukraine:

Political situation in Ukraine is still very tense, with a face-off between the Parliament and Yuschenko well under way. The Parliament it continuing to pass resolutions to limit Yuschenko's powers, meanwhile Yuschenko uses his executive authority to prevent these bills from passing, at least temporarily (they will go back to the Parliament for a vote once he vetos them). There is now an all-out rally between the two sides to grab as much control of the country as possible - including armed forces.


Some key developments:



News sources in Russian - with partial translation:

Timoshenko States that she is Being Spied on by Yuschenko's Intelligence Service



The majority leader in Ukrainian Parliament, Yulia Timoshenko, has reported that she is under close watch by Ukrainian intelligence service, including wire-tapping of her phone calls. She did not elaborate which Ukrainian agency is spying on her, but it is believed to be Ukraine's equivalent of FBI (SBU) (which takes orders from Yuschenko). In parliament she accused the SBU of carrying out repressions by orders of the President.

It is also reported that after her party's realliance, many Ukrainian parliament members are being actively spied on. Timoshenko also received a memo from the National legal prosecutor to appear for a meeting (hearing?) on September 11. Timoshenko has accused the national prosecutor of governmental repressions.

In recent weeks Yuschenko's administration has publically accused Timoshenko of illegal political intrigues. Yuschenko has addressed this matter to Ukrainian national defense ministry, which is supposedly assisting the federal prosecutors


lenta.ru...

thoughts:

It appears that Yuschenko might want to take this to the next level. It is possible that he will launch legal proceeding against Timoshenko on September 11. It is very possible that if this occurs, we will see parallel proceedings to impeach Yuschenko taking place in the Parliament. This could deteriorate fast - as long as there is some truth to what Timoshenko is saying of course. Also troubling is the involvement of the Defense Ministry (basically the armed forces).



Speaker of Ukrainian Parliament Yacenyuk Signed Laws Limiting Yuschenko's Authority



The bills designed to limit Yuschenko's executive power have passed in the Parliament, and will now go to Yuschenko for approval [I know - very ironic]. Yuschenko now has 15 days to either sign them into law, or veto them - sending them back to a vote in the Parliament.

When the bill was being voted on in Parliament, Yuschenko's party left the Parliament building in protest.

The bill is designed to do the following: make impeachment proceedings easier and quicker to carry out; transfer the power to assign and remove defense ministers (who control armed forces) to the Prime Minister (Timoshenko); and takes away the President's authority to give orders to the defense ministry.


lenta.ru...

thoughts:

For those who don't know - Ukraine's poltical branches operate pretty much the same way as in U.S. If Yuschenko doesn't pass Congress's bills, the Congress may still pass them into law by gathering a specific number of votes. At this point it is looking likely that the Parliament will be able to accumulate the needed votes.

Notice how the bill's main goal is give control over the nation's armed forces and intelligence services to the Parliament rather than the President. This is clearly a mobilization for a very tense impeachment, or at least a transfer of key executive powers to the Parlieament. Whatever the opposition alliance has planned, will be carried out in less than a month.



Parliament members decide to strip the President of control over Ukraine's armed forces



New bills designed to take away most of Yuschenko's control over the national armed forces, are going to be voted on in the Parliament in the coming days. This bills virtually redesign the entire structure of Ukraine's armed forces, and would create a new agency to oversee them. The new national guard division will be largely tasked with securing vital areas guaranteeing stability and public order.

The move is in reponse to Yuschenko's recent test inspection of the defense minitry, which are seen by the Parliament as a preparation for using the armed forces to suppress opposition. The Parliament is also concerned with Yuschenko's repressive actions during the Ukraine's political crisis in the spring of 2007, when special forces under his command ceased the offices of the National Prosecutor, to prevent the Parliament from replacing the prosecutor.


lenta.ru...

thoughts:

This article makes the intentions of both sides clear enough. Both Parliament and Yuschenko are preparing for a possible political stand-off, where they plan to utilize and rely on the nation's armed forces to guarantee that they stay in power. This is becoming more and more troubling, and the talk of "armed forces" forshadows what could very well come in the next month or two. We are only seeing a heated warm-up. The sh*t hasn't hit the fan yet, so to say.

This conflict will really test Yuschenko's resolve. Either he backs down in favor of the country remaining a democracy, or he dismisses the Parliament and uses the armed forces to cease control over the country and repress the opposition. The opposition on the other hand is also testing ground, and is likely trying to get a measure of his response at this point. This appears to be the probing stage of the conflict, where both sides try to predict what the other will do, while trying to insure that they will stay in power.



Veterans of Ukraine's Federal Intelligence and Defense Services (SBU) call on Yuschenko to Stop Repressions



SBU (FBI equivalent in Ukraine) veterans have blamed Yuschenko for creating a "police state" in Urkaine, with the SBU now taking orders from Yuschenko and repressing opposition. They have written a formal letter of complaint to the administration.

The authors of the letter blame current SBU leadership for incompetence and corruption. They say the SBU is being actively utilized to carry out repressions throughout the country. The veterans also blame the SBU for endangering the national security.

The letter demands that Yuschenko cease these operations, and has been signed by former head of the SBU and several former leaders as well as Parliament members.

SBU is currently being blamed by numerous Parliament members, including Yuschenko, of spying on them.

In August two officers of the SBU have filed for release from the agency, and have publically stated that their reasons are that the agency parttakes in spying and investigations against the opposition leaders - on direct orders of the President's administration. The officers state that Yuschenko's accusations of Timoshenko are part of a plan to discredit here, and have no legal backing.


lenta.ru...


thoughts:

We have here some serious accusations by serious and powerful people against the SBU agency, which has a lot of power in Ukraine (think FSB in Russia/FBI in the U.S.). The SBU is under tight control of Yuschenko, and the Parliament has no jurisdiction over it. However the Parliament is trying to get control over the armed forces. This could get very interesting, because not only will we have politicians going head to head - but also two very powerful national agencies.

Basically the only real power Yuschenko has now, is his control of the SBU. This is his only ace in the unfolding card game. My guess is that we will see him rely more and more on the SBU, while he will likely lose the control over the armed forces in the coming month. I have a few guesses where this will head from here, but I prefer not to speculate at this point.




Yuschenko has shown his true face. He does not back any sort of democracy in Ukraine - all he backs is the U.S. and NATO. Yuschenko is more and more seen as an outsider by his own people these days. He has done nothing to improve life in Ukraine, and all of his policies are meant to benefit NATO and U.S. God knows what type of crap this moron is about to lead his country (which is not even his anymore) into. If he doesn't do the democratically correct thing, and let Parliament do their job, the situation could deteriorate fast.

This puppet is clearly on his way out, and he is ready to fight with all he's got to stay in power. But he is already uprooted, and very little can same him from tumbling over. However - if he resorts to violent repression, the opposition will be ready to fight back. And if that happens - he is guaranteed to be impeached and put on trial. I hope it will not go that far, and that he will back-off. The question is how is the U.S. supporting him, and what plans he has made with Cheney? This is the wild card here.




posted on Sep, 9 2008 @ 10:47 PM
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reply to post by maloy
 


Very good post Maloy as always, perhaps Ukraine could go civil after all i truly hope not

Yet I disagree with the your premise that Yushchenko and Saakashvil are USA/NATO puppets.
Could you explain why you believe this to be true?and what evidence there to back this up?,i distrust all of these leaders, but Would you consider Medvedev a Putin Puppet? it would clear up a lot of confusion for me, regarding your posts
cheers!



[edit on 9-9-2008 by all2human]



posted on Sep, 9 2008 @ 11:09 PM
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Originally posted by all2human
Yet I disagree with the your premise that Yushchenko and Saakashvil are USA/NATO puppets.


Very short summary (without going into details - but I can):

U.S. very actively supported both during the Orange and Rose revolutions. Both have extensive ties to the U.S., having visited it and been advised by many U.S. politicians prior to the "revolutions". Immediately after both got "elected", they very actively pursued NATO membership. Both received extensive aid from U.S., that mostly went to securing their power. Both are virtually never criticized by U.S. government, and instead always supported. Both have held numerous private meetings with major U.S. federal officials including Cheney many times since they came to power (even close U.S. allies like UK haven't had that many meetings). Both largely ignore domestic policies like economy, and instead focus all of their efforts on getting military alliance with the U.S.



Originally posted by all2human
and what evidence there to back this up?


Well of the above are pretty well known facts from widely available news - there are no theories or opinions there. Examples of much of this you can see taking place right now.

Recent events have convinced nearly everyone that at least Saakashvili is a genuine puppet. Yuschenko's biggest give away - is how actively he pursues NATO membership despite the fact that 70% of the country are seriously angered by this.



Originally posted by all2human
Would you consider Medvedev a Putin Puppet?


Of course. But he is an "internal" puppet - where both the puppet and the puppeteer are figureheads of a single government - no foreign figures are involved. Think of it as Bush - Cheney relationship.

Saakashvili and Yuschenko on the other hand are "external" puppets. Their strings strech all the way to the U.S., while Medvedev and Putin share their jurisdiction.



posted on Sep, 10 2008 @ 12:43 AM
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Originally posted by maloy

Originally posted by all2human



Quote by All2human:
--And what evidence is there to back this up?


"Well of the above are pretty well known facts from widely available news - there are no theories or opinions there"


--OK,with all due respect, this doesn't actually prove these leaders are "controlled" by the USA as puppets
unless you can provide at least a link to that provides proof to back-up your claim,I'll regard this as a theory.


"Recent events have convinced nearly everyone that at least Saakashvili is a genuine puppet."


--If this is so obvious,and there is proof,Why doesn't Russia just get on with it and declare war with USA,or bring the convincing facts before the UN council, if Saakasvili is such a USA puppet,then GW Bush is an even bigger "puppet"! , yet i have heard nothing other than Saakasvili represent himself as President of Georgia, and ultimately he and Yushchenko will take the fall of/for/because of themselves,through there own decisions or lack-there-of.



Quote by All2humam:
--Would you consider Medvedev a Putin Puppet?


"Of course. But he is an "internal" puppet - where both the puppet and the puppeteer are figureheads of a single government - no foreign figures are involved. Think of it as Bush - Cheney relationship".

"Saakashvili and Yuschenko on the other hand are "external" puppets. Their strings stretch all the way to the U.S., while Medvedev and Putin share their
jurisdiction."


Maybe it is not "puppetry"we are talking about here--What is wrong with having interests in another Nation?, surely this is not a surprise, countries democratic and alike are much more interconnected than were in any other time in history,i am sure Russia regrets not being as effective as the USA/Europe is, at this, it is called Globalization, the Socialist system is on it's way out,hopefully for good , It is Georgia and Ukraine that will decide ultimately,if they want support and change,and Yes they have something big to gain here NATO membership then a EU membership,
The leaders of these countries, are the ones who should be held responsible and accountable for their own actions,it is them who ultimately decides
or not



[edit on 10-9-2008 by all2human]



posted on Sep, 10 2008 @ 08:47 AM
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Ukraine completely loses EU membership as a result of Government instability and inn fighting.
All sides must be disappointed at this.

blog.kievukraine.info...
Kiev Ukraine News Blog



posted on Sep, 11 2008 @ 08:33 PM
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reply to post by maloy
 

To further my point
www.timesonline.co.uk...
George Bush isn't in charge, says Putin
and reveal your bias
On topic:
blog.kievukraine.info...
Kiev Ukraine News Blog


[edit on 11-9-2008 by all2human]



posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 12:15 AM
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blog.kievukraine.info...
Kiev Ukraine News Blog
From external source:
KIEV, Ukraine -- Ukraine accused Russia on Saturday of seeking to destabilise the ex-Soviet state, dismissing the idea it was in Moscow's special zone of interest and describing Kiev's EU and NATO ambitions as "irreversible."

So much for promoting US-Russia dialogue



[edit on 14-9-2008 by all2human]



posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 01:12 AM
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I know I'm going to get blow back from this one, but I'm going to say it anyways, I don't care if you disagree...


The Ukraine is soon to be one less nation for the US to launch another hair brained attack from.

The less moronic assaults on the world from the US, the better.


Whether or not Russia can be trusted is undetermined... I can't answer that, but I know for a fact that the US has no quarrels with violating international law to start needless wars. If the Ukraine is pro-Russian, that takes another staging ground away.



posted on Sep, 16 2008 @ 09:16 AM
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End of the line for Yushchenko.

news.bbc.co.uk...
UKRAINE GOVERNMENT FALLS APART

From external source:
KIEV, Ukraine -- Ukraine plunged into fresh political turmoil today when its pro-Western government collapsed amid recriminations over Russia's war with Georgia.

The pro-Western coalition of Prime Minister Yuliya Tymoshenko and President Yushchenko has formally split.

The Speaker of Parliament formally dissolved the coalition between the party of Prime Minister Yuliya Tymoshenko and that of her former Orange revolution ally, President Viktor Yushchenko. The announcement ended hopes that the two sides could patch up their differences after Mr Yushchenko's Our Ukraine party withdrew from the coalition 10 days ago.

The Speaker, Arseny Yatsenyuk, said that parties now had 30 days to try to build a new majority in parliament or face elections, just a year after Ukraine last went to the polls. He said: "I would not call this an apocalypse. It is a challenge for democracy, but I hope we will overcome this challenge together."

The crisis has exposed deep fissures within the pro-Western forces who came to power after the 2004 revolution as the rival leaders jockey for advantage ahead of presidential elections expected late next year. The divisions could open the way for the pro-Russian Party of Regions, led by their bitter rival Viktor Yanukovych, to return to power and tilt Ukraine towards Moscow once again.


[edit on 16-9-2008 by all2human]



posted on Sep, 16 2008 @ 09:46 AM
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Originally posted by all2human
Maybe it is not "puppetry"we are talking about here--What is wrong with having interests in another Nation?


But puppetry it is... Saakashvili wouldn't even be in power if the US didn't pressure Shevrdnadze (quite heavily) to give up the office after a disputed election. Pro-Saakashvili organizations in Georgia had received significant aid from the West... Sure looks like an installation of a puppet to me.

And speaking of "having interests" -- well sure it looks like the US' interest in Georgia and Ukraine is to complete the encirclement of Russia by hostile forces. I rarely support Russian policies but consider the choices they have now. Do you expect them to roll over and die?



posted on Sep, 16 2008 @ 09:49 AM
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Well, Putin himself called Bush a puppet so who knows?therightperspective.com...
Putin: Bush Not In Charge | The Right Perspective

I understand Russia arguing about the ongoing NATO expansion, but bowling over a whole country (Georgia) Threatening Europe and ex-soviet states is not a great way of making your point.

[edit on 16-9-2008 by all2human]

[edit on 16-9-2008 by all2human]



posted on Sep, 16 2008 @ 09:55 AM
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Originally posted by all2human
Yes but bowling over a whole country (Georgia) Threatening Europe and ex-soviet states is not a great way of making your point.


Russia did not threaten Europe...

Again, what would you do if Russia was to place missile defense in Mexico (assuming you live in the US)?



posted on Sep, 16 2008 @ 10:01 AM
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reply to post by buddhasystem
 


I personally think the ABM system Proposed for NATO states is plain stupid,Russia has a right to be DEFENSIVE.

www.dailymail.co.uk...
Russia threatens nuclear strike on Poland as Cameron demands ...

Perhaps Tymoshenko will become the next "puppet"




[edit on 16-9-2008 by all2human]



posted on Sep, 16 2008 @ 10:07 AM
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Originally posted by all2human
I personally think the ABM system Proposed for NATO states is plain stupid,Russia has a right to be defensive.


I'm glad we agree, and I also think that NATO expansion is a bad idea.


www.dailymail.co.uk...
Russia threatens nuclear strike on Poland as Cameron demands ...


Frankly, the Russian general simply stated what the Poles already knew -- if a system is deployed there, and tensions are high, they will be targeted. Hardly a news.



posted on Sep, 16 2008 @ 06:02 PM
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From external source:

blog.kievukraine.info...
Kiev Ukraine News Blog

Wednesday, September 17, 2008
Ukraine Prez: RUSSIA WANTS TO DESTABALIZE UKRAINE

KIEV, Ukraine -- President Viktor Yushchenko accused Russia on Tuesday of trying to destabilize Ukraine by encouraging separatists in the Crimea, as fears grow about Russia's willingness to throw its weight around the former Soviet Union.
Many fear Moscow could lay claim to Crimea, the Black Sea peninsula that once belonged to Russia and is now home to Russia's Black Sea fleet. More than half its residents are ethnic Russians.

Yushchenko said Russia was interested in causing "internal instability" in parts of Ukraine.

"Without a doubt, such scenarios exist," he said.


Why would this absolutely not surprise to me





[edit on 16-9-2008 by all2human]



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 11:06 AM
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Not Breaking: Last weeks news but still relevant

news.yahoo.com...
Putin slams Ukraine on Georgia arms sales, agrees gas deal - Yahoo ...


[edit on 3-10-2008 by all2human]



posted on Oct, 5 2008 @ 10:45 PM
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blog.kievukraine.info...
Kiev Ukraine News Blog

From external source:
Russia Finds Unlikely Ally In Ukraine's Tymoshenko

MOSCOW, Russia -- The Kremlin has struck a tactical alliance with its former foe Ukrainian Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko designed to help her become the next president and help Russia rein in Ukraine's drive to embrace the West.

surprise!--not, it was obvious Russia would meddle with this nation during/after Georgia war ,here it is ,i was right all along!





[edit on 5-10-2008 by all2human]



posted on Oct, 8 2008 @ 08:34 PM
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news.bbc.co.uk...
Snap election called in Ukraine



[edit on 8-10-2008 by all2human]



posted on Oct, 8 2008 @ 08:59 PM
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Their economy is not crumbling. There is massive building going on in Ukraine. Kiev and Odessa both have an enormous amount of wealth coming into those cities and housing, shops, and goods are also flowing into those areas. You can not travel through Kiev or Odessa without seeing innumerable cranes in the midst of a huge building boom.



reply to post by maloy
 



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