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Masons Coincidence

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posted on Mar, 18 2004 @ 10:23 PM
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IMO, Coincidence doesn't exist-- or, rather, the definition should be altered. I've also noticed that, for those 'powers that be', Coincidence and Symbolism seem to go hand-in-hand when it comes to getting whatever point across which might be their aim. The world-wide media (especially the 24-hour news channels) loves to use coincidence to draw whatever conclusions and paint whatever pictures they so choose... So with that said...

I feel somewhat disgusted that the world-wide media sought NOT to draw attention to the shooting death in New York some days back at the Masonic Lodge, when, on or near the same day a Masonic Lodge in Turkey was suicide-bombed by a supposed terrorist. If I am wrong, someone please let me know so, but as far as I know, the only place I knew that even spoke of the 'incident' in New York was the NYC News-Radio Station 1010 WINS, and I saw no note of it on any of the local or WWM stations that day or the days following.

Also, on another note, does anyone else think that the 'terrorists' are beginning to attack what could be considered (if we were looking from their POV) 'better' or 'more direct' targets by focusing on such targets as the Masons?

(Personally, I haven't made up my mind on Masons-- as I understand many of them don't even know the truth about what they are a part of, so I don't see them as being 'evil' or even 'wrong' as the 'truth' is still very relative)




posted on Mar, 18 2004 @ 10:44 PM
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What I wanna know; is why the FreeMasons don't go on a world-wide crusade, to teach the masses that there are no conspiracies and such that they are involved in. I mean they're the largest, most wide-spread fraternal organization in the World, with members involved in every facet of society; so why do they seem to not want much attention directed toward them?


After all; they're not a "secret society".




ONE



posted on Mar, 18 2004 @ 10:56 PM
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Yeah well, as far as I'm concerned, the jury is still out with regards to Masons not being a 'secret society'.

I mean, if they weren't so secret, why would they intentionally decieve even their OWN members? "Morals and Dogma" by Albert Pike directly states that the lower initiates are deliberately decieved into believing that they understand whats going on in the Lodge/Masonic community...

And, as we all (should) know, anything that's 'secret' simply means there is something to hide...



posted on Mar, 19 2004 @ 03:50 AM
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I was being somewhat sarcastic.

I was just saying that if they don't have a secret agenda; why are they not going on TV and into class rooms and such, to educate people about them and tell everybody that they're nothing more than a "fraternal club".



posted on Mar, 19 2004 @ 05:00 AM
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Originally posted by Tamahu
I was being somewhat sarcastic.

I was just saying that if they don't have a secret agenda; why are they not going on TV and into class rooms and such, to educate people about them and tell everybody that they're nothing more than a "fraternal club".


If we did that, then people would say that we were too energetic in trying to prove that there was nothing sinister about Freemasonry and therefore there must be something in those accusations. It is much easier for us to ignore our detractors, but to tell them that they are welcome to join our fraternity providing that they agree to keep our secrets. If they have any problems at all with that, they are as welcome to walk away from us as they are to join us should they want to. The only threats made to those who do break our secrecy are symbolic threats and have no practical meaning. We rely entirely on the word of honour of those involved to keep our secrets. Of course some members of the media have been lacking in that respect and a lot of our secrets can be found with a little bit of research. But I can assure all concerned that there is nothing illegal or immoral about any of the secrets a Freemason is required to keep. For example, the only thing the Roman Catholic Church has against Freemasonry is that none of their members are alowed to keep secrets from the Church. They have no other problems with the organisation.

If you have doubts about our integrity, instead of asking us to dispel them for you, why not take the trouble to get to know a Freemason and ask him to nominate you, then you can see what goes on at first hand.



posted on Mar, 19 2004 @ 12:04 PM
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I mean, if they weren't so secret, why would they intentionally decieve even their OWN members? "Morals and Dogma" by Albert Pike directly states that the lower initiates are deliberately decieved into believing that they understand whats going on in the Lodge/Masonic community...


That one line Pike is quoted a lot by opponents of Masonry, but is almost always taken out of context.
To begin with, even if Pike was correct, by publishing that in his book, it only shows that he, as a Masonic leader, was trying to undeceive members (since he believed the lectures were intentionally misleading).
But Pike did not have access to sources we have today, many only available after his death. The evidence suggests not that the authors of the Masonic lectures were trying deceiving everyone, but that they themselves had no knowledge of the possible esoteric interpretations of Masonic symbols, which Pike had set out to discover and communicate to the fraternity.




I feel somewhat disgusted that the world-wide media sought NOT to draw attention to the shooting death in New York some days back at the Masonic Lodge


What happened in NY was a complete tragedy brought on by utter stupidity; however, people accidentally shoot other people every day, so, at least from that perspective, it's not a huge news story.

Fiat Lvx.



posted on Mar, 19 2004 @ 12:40 PM
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That one line Pike is quoted a lot by opponents of Masonry, but is almost always taken out of context.
To begin with, even if Pike was correct, by publishing that in his book, it only shows that he, as a Masonic leader, was trying to undeceive members (since he believed the lectures were intentionally misleading).
But Pike did not have access to sources we have today, many only available after his death. The evidence suggests not that the authors of the Masonic lectures were trying deceiving everyone, but that they themselves had no knowledge of the possible esoteric interpretations of Masonic symbols, which Pike had set out to discover and communicate to the fraternity.


So what you're saying is, people who don't truly know what they are teaching are allowed to enlighten/teach those of lesser stature within the Masons? Wouldn't you consider that a massive mis-step in your system?



What happened in NY was a complete tragedy brought on by utter stupidity; however, people accidentally shoot other people every day, so, at least from that perspective, it's not a huge news story.


Yes, a tragedy it was. Such a tragedy that a full functional, most deadly bullet was placed in the chamber of a gun when a blank should have been placed in its stead.

I wish I could say I felt sorry, but I don't-- the initiate in this case was shot at close range (the gun was supposedly right next to his skull when it went off), and even if it was a blank, i'm sure SOME damage would've been inflicted upon him from the firing of the damn thing.



posted on Mar, 19 2004 @ 12:44 PM
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Just a quick thought with all this mason stuff going on. Am I the only one that misses FreeMason?



posted on Mar, 19 2004 @ 12:48 PM
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"How much evidence does one need? They sentence people to death in our country on less evidence".

We can use 9-11 as
One Simple Example of this OCCULTIC communication. Some would like to only believe it is coincidence. The Awful Truth of the matter, it is much more than coincidence. How I wish it was coincidence.







You have heard of the 911 days between the Madrid, Spain Bombing(3-11-04) and WTC Attacks (9-11-01). Why 911 days? Many think this is nonsense so I had to verify it for myself. This is what I found.


www.geocities.com...



posted on Mar, 19 2004 @ 02:27 PM
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Originally posted by Thorfinn Skullsplitter
Am I the only one that misses FreeMason?


Probably...



posted on Mar, 19 2004 @ 03:52 PM
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Originally posted by Cappa
So what you're saying is, people who don't truly know what they are teaching are allowed to enlighten/teach those of lesser stature within the Masons? Wouldn't you consider that a massive mis-step in your system?


It's not that Masonic leaders were trying to teach anyone of "lesser stature". What you have here in ths case are a collection of very old rituals that appear to have a lot of meaning..the only problem is that it's hard to find two different Masons who agree on what exactly that meaning is.
Originally, the candidate was initiated into whatever degree, and that was the end of it. The Premiere Gand Lodge at London thought this was unsatisfactory, and authorized Bro. Jeremy Cross to write lectures for the degrees, to be given to the new brother immediately after the ceremonial was conferred. Cross, drawing on some of the actual language used in the ritual, gave all Masonic symbolism interpretations dealing with morality, and his lecture-revising successors followed suit.
This is great, but some Masons believe the symbols have even deeper meaning. Pike and Mackey popularized the notion that Masonic symbolism can be shown to point to the Kabbalah and other schools of mystical philosophy. Pike himself, in "Morals and Dogma", also considered the possibility that this "deception" was not intentional, in which case he proclaimed the Webb/Cross lecturers "dunces".
In the end, it's all relative. Pike makes a good case (he was a lawyer, after all), but there is no concrete evidence that he was right, and Webb and Cross were wrong. It's simply a matter of these men interpreting Masonry differently.


Yes, a tragedy it was. Such a tragedy that a full functional, most deadly bullet was placed in the chamber of a gun when a blank should have been placed in its stead.
I wish I could say I felt sorry, but I don't-- the initiate in this case was shot at close range (the gun was supposedly right next to his skull when it went off), and even if it was a blank, i'm sure SOME damage would've been inflicted upon him from the firing of the damn thing.


I agree. Under no circumstances should a gun ever be brought in a Masonic Lodge, even if it's only holding blanks.
This did not happen during a Masonic meeting. The brother who was killed was being initiated into the "Southside Fellow Craft Club." This club was not sanctioned by Masonic authority, and was invented by group of members from South Side Lodge.
The initiation consisted entirely of juvenile pranks, and it is a stain upon the fraternity that Masons would behave like such idiots.
The Grand Lodge of Free and Accepted Masons of New York has revoked the charter the Lodge in question, and suspended its members pending further investigation.

Fiat Lvx.



posted on Mar, 19 2004 @ 04:05 PM
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Masonic Light - Thnx for clearing that up. I hope you don't take it personal when I say that I don't entirely believe the explanation of the 'juvenile pranks' which, in this case, consisted of a far from juvenile fully loaded 9mm (I do believe it was a 9mm, though it really doesn't matter).

But truly, thnx for clearing that up.

By the way, might I ask what "Fiat Lvx." means? Or would that be considered you divulging too much information?



posted on Mar, 19 2004 @ 05:52 PM
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"Fiat Lvx" is Latin, meaning "Let There Be Light."

As for the initiation in which the candidate was killed:

According to the police report, this part of the ritual consisted of seating a candidate between two shelves, head level. Tin cans were placed on the shelves. A guy then stood in front firing blanks, while someone hid behind the candidate, knocking the cans over with a stick.
Also according to the report, the guy who did the shooting was in possession of two guns: the one with blanks, and a real one. He was licensed to carry a weapon, so this was legal. But he's also 80 something years old; he pulled the wrong gun and fired, hitting the man point blank in the face.
Whether this was feeble-mindedness due to age, or just plain neglect, I do not know. What I do know is that grown men should have better things to do with their time than that sort of foolishness, even if no one gets hurt.

Fiat Lvx.

[Edited on 19-3-2004 by Masonic Light]



posted on Mar, 19 2004 @ 08:57 PM
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delete

[Edited on 19-3-2004 by Wiley]



posted on Mar, 19 2004 @ 09:20 PM
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The gun fired was .32 caliber. It was the property of the shooter, who was a bank courier, and expected in his line of work. I could go on about the circumstances, but they are irrelevant.

This little "side organization" of a few Masons has sullied the whole. Papers still report that this was some sort of "sanctioned degree." No firearm has a place within a Lodge. Many in the Fraternity have called for the Grand Master of New York to resign, as he is ultimately responsible. Myself, I am surprised at the delay in the suspension of the members and lodge affected.

I expect justice in this case...for the widow especially. This nonsense holds no water with me, except for the truth and punishment...



posted on Mar, 20 2004 @ 09:15 AM
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Many in the Fraternity have called for the Grand Master of New York to resign, as he is ultimately responsible.


I would have to disagree. This was not a Masonic event, and the Grand Master did not even know this "club" existed.
As men, we are responsible for our own actions. In this case, I believe the responsible parties are the man who pulled the trigger, as well as those who participated in this "ritual."
Most of the members of the Lodge are not members of this club, and hopefully their membership will soon be restored, as this incident no doubt took them by as much surprise as it did us.
But I feel less sympathy with those that were involved. Even the firing of blanks can be dangerous, and they should know this.

Fiat Lvx.




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