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Six dead in US shooting spree

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posted on Sep, 3 2008 @ 03:15 PM
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reply to post by antar
 



Just because someone wears a badge does not mean that they can be trusted with my life or that of my family, I would hope so, but...


The police cannot protect you. They are there to pick up the pieces when it is all over.

All this BS brainwashing propaganda about the police putting their "lives on the line to protect people" is just that, big BS. A cop will not come rushing into a situation to save your life, unless his own life is on the line. They will sit there and wait for backup. In fact, that's what they're trained to do.

Most cops will wait, pause, hesitate and take their sweet time whenever they're responding to a domestic. You know why? It's the most dangerous situation an officer can walk into. So rather than save some poor lady from getting her head smashed in, they'll wait, and then go arrest the guy who did it so that "justice" is served. (And maybe even nevermind that the guy actually killed the woman in self defense, just to throw another curveball here.)




posted on Sep, 3 2008 @ 03:16 PM
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reply to post by OzWeatherman
 



You dont give a crap about the cops that were putting their lives on the line to try and stop this wacko?


No, I don't.



posted on Sep, 3 2008 @ 03:20 PM
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reply to post by Mintwithahole.
 


Star for you. I think you have hit the nail on the head. Society is ill. We need a cure, not a punishment.



The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers.

-Princess Leia



posted on Sep, 3 2008 @ 03:24 PM
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reply to post by Mintwithahole.
 



The cop who was shot was just doing his job.


And Sean Bell was just on his way home to his fiance. And Tracy Ingle was just sleeping in his own bed at home, etc., etc.



posted on Sep, 3 2008 @ 04:23 PM
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FYI - Two cops were shot the one that was just grazed by the bullet was a Washington State Patrol Trooper. The one that was killed was a female Skagit County sheriff's deputy who was an animal control officer before becoming a deputy.

Nobody's saying where the gun came from yet, but there was also a stabbing by the guy.

Reports are the guy was a nut case known by local law enforcement and was a paranoid schizophrenic living in the woods near his ma's house.

I've been to Alger and I think it's just a one gas station type town. Even though it's only about 15 miles from where I live it's not on any path to anywhere and I think the only time I passed through was making a wrong turn after a night out.

I live in the area, but have never had a contact with the Sheriffs office, but most Sheriffs in Washington state aren't liked much as they have the tendency to write big traffic tickets for revenue collection and are heavy handed mental midgets who engage in harassment and don't treat the public with respect.

On the other hand, the Washington State Patrol is probably the most respectful police agency in Washington and are are known to have the most professional officers who treat the public respectfully.

If I get pulled over by a state patrol I feel like I'm talking to a frat brother - if I get pulled over by a Sheriff - I feel like I need to get away from the scumbag before I get accidentally beat up or killed.

I have to agree with Jack on this one. The female deputy was either overpowered or just made some poor decisions that led to her death. I do feel bad for her family, but she was a cop and that goes with the job - like it or not.

Since both I and Jack have had bad experiences with bad people working as cops, when one of them dies - it's pretty hard to feel empathy for any of them and I think more and more people feel the same. They have put themselves on a pedestal and continually violate human rights and break our laws with no accountability.

Now they'll have some big parade with hundreds of police cars and waste a few hundred thousand dollars of taxpayer money like some King or Queen passed away.



posted on Sep, 3 2008 @ 06:54 PM
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reply to post by jackinthebox
 


You are in fact a glaring example of a person who should not own a gun. Or are you just bored and Trolling today


On topic-

I think the reason we see more of this is not that it happens more, but because of the Internet and Cable News. These things always went on but there were far fewer hours of Television News and this unlimited news vehicle the Internet has become did not exist for most people. Now we all have the Internet and Cable which means there are more an more hours to fill, so far more things get reported.



posted on Sep, 3 2008 @ 06:59 PM
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As long as free will exists this kind of thing will always happen.

There is no law that anyone can pass to prevent this sort of thing.

Toughen the gun laws... the criminal will use something else to kill someone.

You cannot control what a person will do as long as he or she has free will to do as they please.

Its sad but stuff like this happens all the time and there is nothing anyone can do to prevent it.

[edit on 9-3-2008 by CPYKOmega]



posted on Sep, 3 2008 @ 07:05 PM
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reply to post by Blaine91555
 



You are in fact a glaring example of a person who should not own a gun.


And why is that? Because I rely on myself instead of the police?


EDIT to add: And by the way, I have carried in multiple ways in my lifetime. I have carried illegally, I have carried legally, and I have carried in the line of duty. So, someone saw fit to issue me a weapon.

[edit on 9/3/0808 by jackinthebox]



posted on Sep, 3 2008 @ 08:17 PM
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Originally posted by jackinthebox
reply to post by OzWeatherman
 



You dont give a crap about the cops that were putting their lives on the line to try and stop this wacko?


No, I don't.




Well good, if I ever see you stuck in a corner, with a gun to your head, or someone holding a knife to your throat....or you are beaten up in the street, lying prone with a broken leg....I know that I wont call the cops because as you said you can rely on yourself for protection

And for those that think Im for tightening up on gun laws, read the original post. I clearly stated that it wasnt my opinion, in fact there are both pro's and con's for both sides......read properly please



posted on Sep, 3 2008 @ 08:20 PM
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reply to post by OzWeatherman
 



....or you are beaten up in the street, lying prone with a broken leg....


I have no beef with real heros. So feel free to call the paramedics for an injury, or the firefighters for a fire. But tell the cop "No, he doesn't want to file a report."

EDIT to add: And by the way, I have been shot, stabbed, poisoned, hit by cars, and electrocuted. Not once did a cop ever do anything to help me. In fact, on several ocassions they were the ones inflicting injury on me, despite the fact that I spent many years on their side as one of the "good guys."

[edit on 9/3/0808 by jackinthebox]



posted on Sep, 3 2008 @ 08:36 PM
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Originally posted by verylowfrequency
Now they'll have some big parade with hundreds of police cars and waste a few hundred thousand dollars of taxpayer money like some King or Queen passed away.



seattletimes.nwsource.com...
"On Wednesday afternoon, a motorcade that included a hearse bearing Jackson's body drove from Alger, where her body was found, to a funeral home in Mount Vernon. Dozens of police cars and motorcycles were in the motorcade."

Now they get a parade even before they get a parade. Doubtless for the funeral they will lock down a 100 square mile area to let all the plebs know that one of their Lordships has died.

[edit on 3-9-2008 by starviego]



posted on Sep, 3 2008 @ 11:21 PM
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Originally posted by antar
Just because someone wears a badge does not mean that they can be trusted with my life or that of my family...

The truth is you can't trust your life in the hands of a cop & the courts have even confirmed it!
The source is from a Law School (Bold emphasis is mine):

In 1991, when then-Attorney General Richard Thornburgh released the FBI's annual crime statistics, he noted that it is now more likely that a person will be the victim of a violent crime than that he will be in an auto accident. Despite this, most people readily believe that the existence of the police relieves them of the responsibility to take full measures to protect themselves. The police, however, are not personal bodyguards. Rather, they act as a general deterrent to crime, both by their presence and by apprehending criminals after the fact. As numerous courts have held, they have no legal obligation to protect anyone in particular. You cannot sue them for failing to prevent you from being the victim of a crime.

This is from the FBI's own statistical reports back in 1991...How much worse is it today?
So then what's left if you choose to let the government disarm you? Make no mistake, it is a choice. You also have to decide whether or not it's a choice you may have to live (or die) with, when it comes right down to it.


Originally posted by jackinthebox
All the stats I have seen show that an armed citizenry is the safest. Not just safe against crime, but also against extermination at the hands of their own leaders.

Same here. I've already posted numerous examples (here on ATS) of different stats, not just around America, but on other nations as well. They all reflect the same conclusion...A well-armed population is always the safest. Cops can't protect you, the government can't protect you (no matter how much they promise to, even as they disarm you). The final responsibility for your own safety lies with yourself.

In all honesty, taking responsibility for yourself doesn't stop merely with your own safety...It also lies in all other areas in your whole life: To use your labor to provide for yourself (instead of financing the government's efforts to reduce you to poverty), to housing yourself & family (A man's house is his castle & no one can invade it or your privacy) & even down to the relationships you have with other people (being a good neighbor, instead of letting the government decide how you can or can't interact with people).

In essence, look in the mirror & say, "The buck stops here."


Originally posted by Blaine91555
I think the reason we see more of this is not that it happens more, but because of the Internet and Cable News. These things always went on but there were far fewer hours of Television News and this unlimited news vehicle the Internet has become did not exist for most people.

And that's precisely why more reports of that type get out on the internet...You said it yourself: The internet is unlimited while MSM is very limited. The internet contains pretty much all the information anyone could wish to look for...The only real practical filter (without arbitrary censorship) is what kind of information a person really wishes for & how careful that person is in separating fact from fiction. Just like any personal freedom of choice, it also involves the personal responsibility to choose wisely.

For instance, I have no problem with people (or governments) getting wealthy, as long as they're not stepping on Peoples' Rights to do so...Since I, as a Sovereign Citizen, don't have any Right to violate someone else's Rights, then I cannot give the government any Right (or authority) to do so either. The government that does so does not deserve my consent to continue existing. When enough People realize how much the government does violate the Rights of the People, the wisest choice is to remove consent for the government: History proves time & again that no government can exist without the consent of the People.

When a Peace Officer takes the Oath of Office to defend the Constitution & puts on the badge, they realize the truth...They willingly take the responsibility (& associated dangers) inherent with that Oath. Peace Officers who violate that Oath don't deserve to wear the badge.

From what I saw in the various articles related to this particular incident, the cops who actually did catch the guy have proven the seriousness of their Oath. They displayed a professional attitude & remained within the parameters of their Oath. When the perp surrendered, they could have gone "hog wild" & killed him in a fit of revenge for the cops that did die...The complete opposite of how cops at protest rallies initiate the violence (even to the extent of planting agents provocateur within the group) more often than not.

Personal & professional restraint such as that is getting increasingly rare nowadays. Even cops are human beings too (contrary to popular belief) & I still look at them as individuals in a tough job...I respect the ones who handle it well, but still loathe the ones who abuse the authority they've been granted by the People.

[edit on 3-9-2008 by MidnightDStroyer]



posted on Sep, 4 2008 @ 03:40 AM
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Damn, these killing sprees are getting closer and closer to home.



Originally posted by verylowfrequency


Reports are the guy was a nut case known by local law enforcement and was a paranoid schizophrenic living in the woods near his ma's house.

I've been to Alger and I think it's just a one gas station type town. Even though it's only about 15 miles from where I live it's not on any path to anywhere and I think the only time I passed through was making a wrong turn after a night out.

I live in the area, but have never had a contact with the Sheriffs office, but most Sheriffs in Washington state aren't liked much as they have the tendency to write big traffic tickets for revenue collection and are heavy handed mental midgets who engage in harassment and don't treat the public with respect.

On the other hand, the Washington State Patrol is probably the most respectful police agency in Washington and are are known to have the most professional officers who treat the public respectfully.

If I get pulled over by a state patrol I feel like I'm talking to a frat brother - if I get pulled over by a Sheriff - I feel like I need to get away from the scumbag before I get accidentally beat up or killed.

I have to agree with Jack on this one. The female deputy was either overpowered or just made some poor decisions that led to her death. I do feel bad for her family, but she was a cop and that goes with the job - like it or not.

Since both I and Jack have had bad experiences with bad people working as cops, when one of them dies - it's pretty hard to feel empathy for any of them and I think more and more people feel the same. They have put themselves on a pedestal and continually violate human rights and break our laws with no accountability.

Now they'll have some big parade with hundreds of police cars and waste a few hundred thousand dollars of taxpayer money like some King or Queen passed away.





I identify with what you mention about the cops here in Washington. You have also answered some of the questions I've been wondering about the cops, etc. Thanks for that.



posted on Sep, 4 2008 @ 04:57 AM
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The individual here is of course mentally ill in some degree or capacity.

The second amendment is the only right that guarantees all other rights and the remaining constitution.

A gun is a tool just like a car. Cars are registered, and are used more in unnecessary homicides and suicides each day/year that guns.

Being tools, both can be used correctly or incorrectly. Most citizens over tha age of twelve in America know how to use both of these tools. Registering cars has not prevented knowlegable users from operating them illegally. The same for firearms.

The post which eladorated on this fact "An armed society is a polite society." If all six of those victims had been armed the day this happened, there would still be five of them alive, and one dead perpetrator.

Unarming the public in America would be like making people walk to destinations instead of using a car. The law abiding population would of course walk. The criminals would still have cars, and think of the greater number of innocent law abiding citizens who would be killed and maimed due to not having an equal tool (car) available for their use.

The second amendment is the litmus paperI use to decide for who I vote for in an election. The rest is window dressing.

So lock requirements on guns in the mind of criminals is as effective as lock on cars.

Registration for guns is as effective in preventing crims as registered vehicles.

I learned how to shoot and drive from family members. So mandatory education classes for driving or gun use are for the most part after the fact anyway.

Additionally, had the six victims been armed and the many of the onlooking non participating public to these shootings been armed we would have a different ending to the story.



posted on Sep, 4 2008 @ 06:40 AM
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Before anyone gets too excited about the gun that killed everyone in this case being used as a means of getting rid of the 2nd Amendment - let me tell you where I think the gun came from.

Last night on the news one of the cops reported that they had recovered the deputy's gun. Now - tell me this, why would they have to recover her gun? Unless the suspect overpowered the deputy and took her gun from her and killed her with it. Then proceeded to kill other people with it.

The only other option is he killed her with another gun, and then took her gun for a backup weapon. They did not say where they recovered it, but it obviously wasn't with the dead deputy or they wouldn't of mentioned recovering it and the only person that would of taken it was the suspect, otherwise someone else would have been involved and they didn't mention anyone else.

Now it's possible that there is more than one gun, but the media and the cops have been silent where this mental case got the gun or guns involved. Though they have never said guns, so I'm going to assume that there's only one gun.

At this point it looks like the gun used to kill these people was taken from the Sheriff who responded to the original call. Though some of the media have reported in the time line that one or two people may have been dead before the Sheriff got there. Which would mean there is two guns.

Well anyway there is a big discrepancy about the gun/s and normally the media reports where the gun came from immediately. Why would they keep this information quiet at this point? Anyone have any better hypothesis's than mine?

[edit on 4-9-2008 by verylowfrequency]



posted on Sep, 4 2008 @ 06:52 AM
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[edit on 4-9-2008 by verylowfrequency]



posted on Sep, 4 2008 @ 07:08 AM
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Originally posted by jackinthebox
reply to post by Mintwithahole.
 



The cop who was shot was just doing his job.


And Sean Bell was just on his way home to his fiance. And Tracy Ingle was just sleeping in his own bed at home, etc., etc.



We've all been treated unfairly by the law at some time or other, and they do have their fair share of bigots, racists and simpletons but thats no reason to tar them all with the same brush. I would guess, from reading your posts, that you've had dealings with the law and don't like the way they treated you? Me too! But lets not forget that the cop who was killed was someones son,someones father. . .



posted on Sep, 4 2008 @ 07:10 AM
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Originally posted by Mintwithahole.

Originally posted by jackinthebox
reply to post by Mintwithahole.
 



The cop who was shot was just doing his job.


And Sean Bell was just on his way home to his fiance. And Tracy Ingle was just sleeping in his own bed at home, etc., etc.



We've all been treated unfairly by the law at some time or other, and they do have their fair share of bigots, racists and simpletons but thats no reason to tar them all with the same brush. I would guess, from reading your posts, that you've had dealings with the law and don't like the way they treated you? Me too! But lets not forget that the cop who was killed was someones son,someones father. . .


Or should that be someones mother, someones daughter? Sorry.



posted on Sep, 4 2008 @ 07:58 AM
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Originally posted by fmcanarney

A gun is a tool just like a car. Cars are registered, and are used more in unnecessary homicides and suicides each day/year that guns.


This is your mistake, IMO.

A gun is not a tool, it is a weapon. It was designed, first and foremost, to kill things. It does not have an alternate use, such as driving your kids to school. It is purely used to end life.



posted on Sep, 4 2008 @ 07:00 PM
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Target practice, hunting, recreation, skeet shooting, self defense, sport, olympic and other rifle matches, crime (a tool that gets the crime done trouble free and effortlessly) in my opinion it is a tool. Car, recreation, practice, mobility, job, sport, crime. Car is tool to replace leg or horse. Gun is tool to replace bow and arrow, rock.



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