Palin Loves her Grandchild, Obama See His as Punishment

reply to post by intrepid


actually it would be about abortion because no birth control is 100% effective. And that is your option, have the child or don't have the child.

What is this "education" you refer to that makes a difference? you either Have Sex or you don't

I am waiting and would love to hear the education othet than Abstinence that prevents pregnancy if you have sex

Because I definitely don't have to google the stats on birth control right Even the pill sometimes fails and I am sorry but 98% means in 100 tries of a couple of years from lets say 16-20 your liable to get pregnant

I am also interested in the "class" that would have taught me how to put my my equipment away at the age of 17 when myself and a beautiful girl were "ready"

Is this the class that teaches Stop, Drop and Roll or Get under you Your Desk and put your head between your legs?

What class is there that can teach denial of your instincts? You reach puberty at 12 on average and being a teen are suppossed to go... a Decade sexless? At the horniest time of your life for males in particular?

A class can teach... birth control and abstinence, what more is there, is there some technique I don't know of Buddhist meditation? What is it that Obama has more classes for? To prevent sex.

We are on what 7,000 years of human civilization, prostitution has never gone away, sex has never been dealt with

I just need to know the new method. Because somehow after 8 years of higher eductaion it's been left out

Until then, there is to me...sex or no sex... a birth control isn't 100% it fails

What you have if you have sex is either

Have a child

Put it up for adoption

Keep it

Or abort it

That's it it's a One hr class and use of birth control is a one hr class, after that there is Nothing new under the sun.

Abstinence, if this is not an abortion issue is Palins and the Republicans stance, unless Obama wants to say it like it IS and say the words too. So is this the "education" being refered to "wait to have sex"

and if it is we can guarantee most wont.

Who is this teacher this class lol that will teach teenagers something thy don't know

16 yr olds have access to the internet, these kids know about birth control, teen pregnancy isn't a lack of knowledge, it's too much knowledge in theory, they have 24/7 free porn, kids start education on sex as young as 7 or 8 now to try and thwart molestors, my kid lives in a town of 5,000 and knows 5x what I knew at his age.

So where are these kids that don't know something

and What are we educating them on? Do you have kids? What actually makes you ready to be a parent? Nothing... imho Nothing made me ready for being a parent, the harsh reality of the situation did, I had to earn money.

And did college make me a dime? No it cost me 100 G and set me back more years, It is no indicator of financial success, average college grad makes 40 average no colleg grad 28, lol both are still poor.

College teaches nothing in regards to financial independence, if you have a subject that fascinates you... you do and it's worth it, most ordinary people don't

and I dare say what I self taught myself... makes me far more money than 99% of guys in lab coats ever make

I mean, maybe it is a tradgedy if you were headed to the Ivy Leauge on a scholorship... but the other 95% of kids that aren't, it makes little difference, except to a politician a lawyer or a doctor or professor... that's not "most of us"

But if a person wants MONEY and MONEY is the factor you go into business and you can go downtown and get a course on that, in real world terms and paperwork that rocks a 4 years business degree for a few hundred bucks... you skill needs to be with money

School offers no more preperation to be well of and really handle a family than it teaches anything about Sex or ever could

So utterly, in everyway this comes down to... when Obama says "I wouldn't want my child to...." The issue of Abortion or no Abortion

Because this fiction set of classes that prevents pregnancy doesn't exisit

and Succes as determined by school or no school is false, most Billionares droped out of school, Palin had 5 kids and is on the VP ticket

Waiting until your old to have kids is Unsuccessful in LIFE, it produces less healthy children and more pain and complications for women in many cases...it isn't the best advice

It's social Judgement that is the real issue, Should I support teaching classes that continues to place social pressure on women to not have kids when every single thing indicates that is NOt where happiness lies... program people to look down on them and believe that college would be the answer to financial stress?

The system makes it hard, the system helps drug adicts, imprisons people for minor infractions of the law and costs money those classes cost money and all of it is a watse but mothers are Garbage and get next to nothing and are forced to live in poverty?

Bums and the metally ill get section 8 housing but people who have children don't get substantial aid above vagrants...get called welfare moms

It is a full time job, it benefits society, the child will pay more taxes in a 50 year span if raised well, then the mild costs of helping a woman out could ever come near costing, it's an investment where little else if anything else in social welfare ever is

So what is the AGENDA other than depopulation? Of these classes?



There is no education, nothing other than, pushing kids into abortion or abstinence and birth control class is 1-2 hrs at best, nada, nothing else to offer and it's already there ad Nauseum, If i had a dollar for ever class that was interrupted by condom presentations and still we didn't use condoms lol... it's moronic... maybe some more Just Say NO posters will decrease drug use?

And there is one truth... young marriages tend to fail at a higher rate than people who marry older.

50 years in a modern world is a tough call, but there is an 80% divorce rate regardless in some states...

and thats morals and ethics...that's a materialistic culture that values sex over family and money over children

If he wants to offer a class on behaving like a decent person through LIFE, that might help, but the reason those marriages don't last is Greed and Selfishness not the children, Children are never the problems

There are 2 reasons for 90% of divorce Sex and Money, Greed and Lust at any age...

Prepare kids to be more spiritual and what will you get?

More families and more people having kids younger not less, people who stay married and don't divorce

Money isn't the prerequisite for having children and raising them well... Growing up in NY I saw immigrants withs trong family values, I see it here in AZ too...they have 7 kids and are dirt poor and have better lives than yuppies with a ton of money and no time...

It's utter fiction that kids are expensive, they are expensive if you spoil them sure...

What does a Baby eat? breast Milk? Diapers, your going up 50.00 a week but if you went to college you'd pay 5,000 in loans and tuition that semester

Where is the financial deprevation?

A single night at the bar costs 50.00 and thats what you do in college your text books are double a cheep crib...what? where is school less expensive than a baby?

My son is 9 he costs, hardly anything really... he eats, Groceries go up by the time he is five and you would have your degree 2 meals a day are covered if you need it, food stamps with no other aid comfortably can cover the real expense

It's Psychological, women get depressed because other people are out being selfish and they are made to feel worthless for doing something far more important and worthwhile with their lives by society

The entirety of Obamas statement is about Abortion it has nothing to do with Education other than Education that teaches abortion as an option to preserve what an Agenda describes as a better life, an agenda that is not about Human beings but UN mandates on world population that we as Americans and 1st world nations are pushed to live in order to accomodate the relentess growth of 3rd world countries

And I end this with the one statement that is Absolute Truth

Barack Obama is NOT a success

No One who is truely a decent human being chooses big political career over a family and family time... It is a more succesful and BETTER life to be Pregnant at 18 and make it work and have a fmily and squeeze into a house somehow and Live a normal Human life than it is to be President and never spend time with your kids, to live with that stress, to loose those years of your life, for Fame? Glory? Control? money? power?

It's all worthless, most people the bulk of us are happier with Love and a Farm and food... or any other simple life then the power path

His advice is bad advice, what he calls succes I call dry and a slow death

and in the end, for the money I wasted in school... I did learn that people who crave power suffer from feelings of worthlessness, and that comes from, in his case Lack of a Father or in GW's case a Father who wasn't around!

It is in the end, his advice... the advice of amman who lacks true self worth man who is not satid\sfied with his family, his kids or anything short of being president, by nature these politicos are metally unhealthy people who have very serious issues

and yeah to him being Just a mom is Not a good life, he would...make his daughter feel as worthless as he does and not ever realize it's pathalogical

Originally posted by raven bombshell

Originally posted by yeti101
i think forcing someone to have a kid when they dont want to is punishing them.

I get what you are saying and I get what Obama is saying as well. I love how people WILLFULLY take statements out of context to fit their own agendas or viewpoints. Forcing a woman to have a child she does not want is a punishment, especially if she was raped or was using contraception that was"99.98% effective". All the women who have received or tried to receive abortions felt this way too.

The rape and etc, etc (awful circumstances) is a ridiculous point the pro lifers hang on and it's a case of not moving to the middle at all... The proble with ALL politicians is they get extreme and in the end defeat themselves

I love Plain but.... no rape abortions are insane, there are reasons and realistically, that would never get through the house and senate ever, it's a case of an unachieveable goal

I have no idea why on earth anyone would say such a thing rather than be a bit more moderate and get something accomplished that's good

I would never ask a woman who was raped to keep the child, it woud have the genetics of a Rapist lol

Somethings are moronic and... I hate the extremes both sides take, I really do

I think the only thing Obama is guilty of is a very poor choice of words.

I think we can all agree that having unprotected sex and having sex before marriage has it's CONSEQUENCES.

Having a child at a very young age is a consequence of unprotected sex, so is getting an STD.

I mean really, how often does a young teenager find out she's pregnant and go running home to mommy and daddy saying, "Oh my gosh! I have some wonderful news that will make you guys so happy!"

No, the majority of the time the mood is somber, the news hits like a ton of bricks, and it takes some getting used to.

Of course Palin will be singing praises after the fact. Just try to imagine what the mood must've been like in that room when Bristol broke the news. I highly doubt they threw a party and jumped for joy.

My mom got pregnant with me at 18, she was unmarried. She doesn't see me as punishment but I fully understand that her first thought most likely wasn't one of pure and utter happiness. That doesn't mean she loves me any less.

I also know that when I was a teenager one of her worst fears (well mostly for my sister) was that I would end up pregnant like her at such a young age. Does that mean she wouldn't love her grandchild any less? Of course not.





[edit on 2-9-2008 by nunya13]

Originally posted by Alxandro
I guess we must ignore a Freudian slip if Obama does it.
Yet when people on the right "slip up" there is hell to pay.

YA that makes sense , HOWARD DEAN howls in excitement and gets the purple one.

JOHN MCCAIN say's "bomb bomb bomb bomb bomb Iran" and walks

reply to post by mopusvindictus


Education, not abortion. If kids are educated properly pregnancy and STDs are avoidable. Parents have to be proactive in this. I have 3 kids. 18yo son(no pregnancies there, he hasn't impregnated a girl), 14 yo daughter. I just asked her again, she's watching TV behind me, what about sex, she said, "No glove, no love". My 13 yo girl isn't home but I'd wager she would say the same.

No, it's about education, not abortion. If one chooses though, what's wrong with abstinence? That's what you get once you've been married for 20 years. I speak from experience here.

reply to post by nunya13


It was the real choice of words... To Obamas credit, he is a straight shooter and a decent guy, he sees, the life he leads as better.

My real argument is, it is an illusion, money and "success" are highly over rated just as the wild single life is Just as College is

My Biggest WTF in here is

How do these people who yuppie prefrence and side on the abortion topic with pro choice (which in most cases is last ditch birth control)

How does he expect to BE a Grandfather?

If you have a Baby at 35 and your child has a Baby at 35 that makes you 80 by the time the first Child is 10

That is not a Grandfather that is a child hood trauma of seeing Grandpa Croak

Maybe 18 is a bit soon... but 60 when your first grandkid is 10... that's BEING a Grandparent 25 avg age

and this system this method of thought has people pushing 40 on their first kids...

it simply is not a good way of life and fractures the family support system, you extra 12 G a year for most people does not compensate for a missing family structure

reply to post by mopusvindictus


I'm not exactly sure but I think you were knocking safe sex education and promoting abstinence only education.

Why can't we have both?

Just as you say that safe sex education is ineffective because birth control methods aren't 100% effective, neither is abstinence education.

Sometimes kids hormones and urges do get the best of them. So what are they supposed to do if they do cave to those urges? What if you haven't taught them about safe sex, just in case? Then you most definitely wind up with an unplanned pregnancy or even worse, an STD.

You have to cover all the bases. It's better to be safe than sorry. Of course kids shouldn't have sex at such a young age, but you have to also teach them about what to do if it happens.

Also, abstinence pretty much teaches not to have sex before you're married. I mean really. Nowadays we are getting married much older than we used to. Do you really think that it's not right for a unmarried 30 year old to have sex? Would it THEN be okay to teach them about birth control methods? Where do you draw the line?

reply to post by jamie83


Well, that's great that she is going to support her daughter, but not every teenage girl has that support at home, or the financial resources to support a baby without the government's assistance. Those are the people that Obama speaks of...the ones who would keep milking the system with every baby they have.

reply to post by yahn goodey


Nope, it is about having empathy for others even if their choices are not consistent with your system of beliefs. I am a mother, and I have never had an abortion or the desire to have one. I just understand why forcing a woman who is unexpectantly pregnant (or as a result of a violent act) to go through the pregnancy and childbirth is like a punishment.

Originally posted by mental modulator

Originally posted by Alxandro
I guess we must ignore a Freudian slip if Obama does it.
Yet when people on the right "slip up" there is hell to pay.

YA that makes sense , HOWARD DEAN howls in excitement and gets the purple one.

JOHN MCCAIN say's "bomb bomb bomb bomb bomb Iran" and walks

Dean's howl was comedy classic, he hung himself with that yeahhhh and nobody asked for his head on a silver platter.
I think McCain made up some words to an old Beach Boys song.

I don't see why people are making a big deal out of this. There is no way you can control a 17 year old person from having sex, if they want to they are going to. She has a baby, oh well it is really not such a shocking thing.

reply to post by mopusvindictus


Bloodline? Your "bloodline" is as good as a mixed cocktail in the vast human gene pool in a few generations.

As for your argument, I fail to see any supporting demographic data? You give one personal example of how your perfect adoptive parents waited to have kids and suffered. I don't think you can use one example to generalize. I know several people who are having kids now at 29+ years of age and they've turned out healthy and smart.

On a personal note, I was irresponsible and got my girlfriend pregnant when I was 21. We were both scared. After a lot of talking she had an abortion. I was very relieved and while she was too, being pregnant is obviously more special to the woman (because she has something growing inside her). I know she felt some sadness for years after it, and I felt bad for her. I was sorry to be so irresponsible but it takes two to tango. To this day I feel like it was the best thing. I have stayed in some contact with this girl over the years and I'm so not attracted to her now. It would have never worked in the long run.

When I was 21 (much less 17) I had no clue of who I was. The light didn't start to come on till 25ish. Could my child have had a great life growing up with divorced parents? Sure. But I stand by my decision to have kids when I'm more prepared emotionally and financially.

Heck I'm an accident myself. My mother's siblings were all 12-24 when she was born. That means she was an accident and therefore I am too. Of course I'm glad of the life that has been given to me. Still, my "accidental" birth isn't going to keep me from applying logic to family planning. That's part of being human. If I relied on instinct I'd be walking around spreading my seed everywhere.

Originally posted by yeti101
i think forcing someone to have a kid when they dont want to is punishing them.

This is getting out of control. I know these people. They are having to have guards on their property to protect them from nuts. The Left Wing hatchet people are circling like vultures in Wasilla. Her family is not even safe.

She does not want to get rid of her baby. She loves the Father and they are getting married. Nobody is forcing her to do anything.

This board is infected with the same illness as The Daily Kos. 'Make up a lie and call it the truthitis'.

No matter who anyone is going to vote for this attack on her family and the lies about her baby are things only the scum of the earth would get involved with or approve of.

reply to post by raven bombshell

I am a mother, and I have never had an abortion or the desire to have one. I just understand why forcing a woman who is unexpectantly pregnant (or as a result of a violent act) to go through the pregnancy and childbirth is like a punishment.

Exactly! Why is so bad for people to say this. I think many conservatives don't want to hear it, because it goes directly against their religious beliefs.

A) Seperation of church and state.

B) Once "A" is secured then we are left with a woman's right to choose.

What else is there to say? Obama the baby hater? Please. I think Obama and Palin both love their kids very much.

Once again JAMIE83 is SHILLING the quote

When it comes specifically to HIV/AIDS, the most important prevention is education, which should include -- which should include abstinence education and teaching the children -- teaching children, you know, that sex is not something casual. But it should also include -- it should also include other, you know, information about contraception because, look, I've got two daughters. 9 years old and 6 years old. I am going to teach them first of all about values and morals. But if they make a mistake, I don't want them punished with a baby. I don't want them punished with an STD at the age of 16. You know, so it doesn't make sense to not give them information."

Obama in context.

Wait, what? There's actually people that take what a politician says seriously?? This is exactly why we were stuck with an idiot for 8 years.

Palin's perspective is your run-of-the-mill, politically-correct BS... at least Obama's view seems a lot more honest. If you're basing your opinion on "who takes human life more seriously" by these two statements, you need a serious reality-check. Plus as the poster above me just pointed out, context is your friend. If you can't see through Palin or McCain or even Obama's BS, then I'm afraid there's no hope for you... I wouldn't take YOUR life seriously.

[edit on 2-9-2008 by DavidU]

reply to post by raven bombshell


as i understand the situation,sarah's daughter has been going steady with her boyfriend levi? for 1 year and the baby is conceived out/thru love---------not rape.
it really is none of our concern other than the media has made it so------they plan to get married------angelina jolie and her boyfriend brad pitt now have 6 kids but are not married and no indication is given that they ever will marry and yet our society and the media think it's wonderful?
what sickening hypocrisy !

reply to post by Scramjet76


She...will live with that decision forever.

What the whole concept of waiting allows us to do..is put off responsability, there is no being prepared my friend, there is nothing that can prepare you, not school, not classes, not age or wisdom.

The ACT of raising a child is the act of becoming prepared.

We made it from the days of caves to where we are now and no one was ever prepared, yet our population is massive, our cities huge and the western and Eastern worlds both, the average person lives now like a Kinf would have in terms of food and security and li\uxury a few hundred years ago

and the age at which we had children was younger, it was 15-22 a century ago and somehow... those people are grandparents and great grandparents they built all this

and we have becme so inept that 18 is not an adult anymore?

I would suggest, you had nothing to loose, this way of thinking makes us underconfident, feel like it is this overwhelming burden

and it's not, that's all... it's just not I grew more in a year than my whole life previous... all I needed was Love and a work ethic and in time I began to understand the pleasure of sacrifice...

and that's it...not a great house, not 82 kinds of insurance, not designer jeans...

Just Love, Just a willingness to put food on the table, The kids Love in return is unconditional, it's a great thing

I don't ... and I mean this, I don't say this to be cruel, but my point is valid

You had this girl have an abortion, you say you weren't ready.... I know ..I KNOW i wasn't ready, I was a waste of space frankly, My greatest achievement in life at the time was being able to clear a 6' Bong without chokeing

I sucked as a Husband, badly at times too, nothing was perfect, I screwed up and...Became a man I'm proud of in the process...

I have that Son, despite everything, he is just fine, he has top grades, mom and I get along, he has a sister I gave them too a few years later, who I also love

He's 9, he's my...best friend in the world, she's 3 she's in a tie for that position

I can not imagine life without them, I know no greater love or satisfaction in this world and we had the abortion talk too... and I said no, I won't stop you nor can I if you do...but I will not condone an abortion

And I have a son and a daughter and you will never know yours he is dead you won't ever know you could have done it, you will never have him or her in your life

and what did you get for that decision? More time to "find yourself" The child will help you find yourself in more ways than you can imagine

reply to post by DavidU


Well that I sort of agree with, everyone is full of sh in politics...

I do however like her lack of experience and washingtomn outsider status, I doubt she has been nearly as dehumanized yet as the rest, the lack of experience is a major plus, she is and has been recently and ordinary dolt like the rest of us.

reply to post by Scramjet76


Of course, but I know Palin has a Christmas tree and gives out presents and they probably have pets and her kids are human and Not totally controlled and preped for any of this

and something sits very wrong with me in regards to the rigidity of that houshold, I think your home shows alot more about how you would run a country than your words do.

Obamas home seems rigid and lacking life compared to palins