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The North Pole becomes an 'island' for the first time in history as ice melts

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posted on Sep, 2 2008 @ 02:32 PM
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reply to post by ProfEmeritus
Not only is the chronological sample size tiny, but the number and distribution of sensors around the globe is also tiny and poorly distributed. I realize this is due to natural barriers to such data, such as the vast size and inaccessibility of the oceans, but that would serve as a reason to question the data, not one to make conclusions based on interpolation.

As I indicated earlier, I have the intention to conduct an experiment of my own, comparing temperature rises under present solar radiation levels with both double the present concentration of CO2 and a small area of concrete introduced. While I will obviously not allow my personal feeling to enter into any results, I do expect the results from the concrete to far outweigh anything I get from CO2 levels.

When (and if, I do have to find the time) I do this, I will publish the experiment and all raw results on a web site for all to peruse. perhaps this sort of thing (assuming others duplicate my experiment) is what it will take to shift the focus back to pure science.

TheRedneck




posted on Sep, 2 2008 @ 02:36 PM
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reply to post by TheRedneck
 

Great. I look forward to your results.



posted on Sep, 2 2008 @ 03:02 PM
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I'd like to see some evidence that this isn't localized oceanic warming being driven by some less than scrupulous Russian government agencies to melt the ice around the pole to both open up these shipping routes & obtain easier access to the minerals and potential oil trapped underneat the ice. How much energy would a few nuclear subs have to expend to heat the ocean water above the thermocline to a warm enough temperature to start the ice floes melting? Have any agencies tested the region to see if there's a spike in radiation levels emanating from under the water surface?



posted on Sep, 2 2008 @ 03:09 PM
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I think that the magnetic shift has something to do with the change in weather and ice flows. The renters of our "home" don't last long enough to fully know how the heating and cooling works. Yet, I'm sure we will get stuck with some kind of "bill" due in full at some point in the near future... only to default and get evicted, with "new" renters moving in some time in the future wondering what happened to the old ones...



posted on Sep, 2 2008 @ 03:16 PM
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Melting ice?
sea level rise?
Don't worry about it. All that ice only comprises 10% of the Earth's water.

Wind turbines are not such a great idea. They cause health problems for people living near them. Likewise you can figure that wildlife will also be affected. Why trade one problem for another?



posted on Sep, 2 2008 @ 03:19 PM
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reply to post by burdman30ott6
Oh, come on burdman! Undersea temperature increases don't affect ice, where have you been? That chain of volcanoes spewing superheated lava under the Arctic have absolutely nothing to do with it, so neither would submarines.


I couldn't stop myself, burdman, sorry.
I starred you to make up for it.

TheRedneck



posted on Sep, 2 2008 @ 03:28 PM
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reply to post by pityocamptes
 


IF a polar shift were to happen in our lifetime, it would made "global warming" look like a picnic. The effect on current civilization and the earth would be devastating.



posted on Sep, 2 2008 @ 03:44 PM
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www.john-daly.com...

Everyone should read this link. The fear mongers might especially take notice of such things as this:


"It will without doubt have come to your Lordship's knowledge that a considerable change of climate, inexplicable at present to us, must have taken place in the Circumpolar Regions, by which the severity of the cold that has for centuries past enclosed the seas in the high northern latitudes in an impenetrable barrier of ice has been during the last two years, greatly abated.

(This) affords ample proof that new sources of warmth have been opened and give us leave to hope that the Arctic Seas may at this time be more accessible than they have been for centuries past, and that discoveries may now be made in them not only interesting to the advancement of science but also to the future intercourse of mankind and the commerce of distant nations."
President of the Royal Society, London, to the Admiralty, 20th November, 1817


and the various photographs that show open water at the North Pole in years past... quite contrary to what the OP states. You may wish to either attempt to explain these discrepancies, ignore these discrepancies, or merely discredit my entire post via the old stand-by insult trying to link a lack of intelligence to man-driven Global Warming denial and doomsday scenario naysaying. I'd love to see some explanations, but have to admit the insults never get old and are frequently quite amusing!



posted on Sep, 2 2008 @ 03:52 PM
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Originally posted by TheRedneck
reply to post by burdman30ott6
Oh, come on burdman! Undersea temperature increases don't affect ice, where have you been? That chain of volcanoes spewing superheated lava under the Arctic have absolutely nothing to do with it, so neither would submarines.


I couldn't stop myself, burdman, sorry.
I starred you to make up for it.

TheRedneck


Tell me about it. For a group of people who question everything "official story" wise and tout rejection of every popularly held opinion to look for some deeper answers, people have sure swallowed the man-driven Global Warming concept hook, line, & sinker. It frankly amazes me that a person can spend days arguing over a single frame of a plane and whether or not there's a tiny blur in that single frame that indicates a rocket, yet completely ignore & ridicule the huge gaping holes in the greenhouse gas theory of climate change. "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain if he's saying or doing something that doesn't agree with MY theory!"



posted on Sep, 2 2008 @ 04:08 PM
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reply to post by burdman30ott6
OK, I see your agenda. You're looking for stars. (and getting them)


You are absolutely right. And what is even worse is when people buy into 'facts' that are shown conclusively to be plain wrong. I had one guy who was adamant that CO2 was a carcinogen!
And behind all of this hysteria, those who stand to profit mightily from it are sitting there laughing...

All I can say is that we must keep trying, keep pointing out the flaws, keep proclaiming science as science instead of as a political tool. Every person who finally realizes what is happening is one more to shift the balance of power away from the powers that be. Thanks for your help in doing that.


TheRedneck



posted on Sep, 2 2008 @ 04:21 PM
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Ok retards , the glacier on my rez near Port Coquitlam is grwoing and it is 0 degrees almost every day of the year in the sunshine . We call it freezing heatwaves in the summer . It is late summer and it is around -1 every day at 10 PM .

Nice try and we just had a 6.0 earthquake in POCO so you can geusss the North valley is about to go on disaster relief for a few years .

So funny tellin your retards it is warm up here , see you in court cannibal gangsterz . You retards have a $ 50 hit out on them in all Kanata looser and we are shooting all of you in the street as you read this whiteman !



posted on Sep, 2 2008 @ 06:23 PM
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reply to post by jokerdazey2
 


I think I understand what you were getting at at first, but then I had to laugh as your post started to make less and less sense. Try to be more careful with words like retard on ATS. Sorry, I'm not your mom...


Anyway, I think the shiny side of the coin here is what we could find with less ice up there. Is there any possibility of any undiscovered landmasses? Maybe there is something buried in the ice or swimming under it. Perhaps Frankenstein's monster is still up there, perhaps hanging out with Santa Claus.



posted on Sep, 2 2008 @ 06:31 PM
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reply to post by SmileyMan34
 


That Santa Claus joke may not be too far off. I imagine that before long we'll see some Earth First fringe group taking out commercial media time to put up scare tactic videos with something like "Hey kids, the North Pole is melting because your parents drive a vehicle larger than a Shriner moped. Santa Claus is drowning and has already lost Donner, Blitzen, and Rudolph to hypothermia and it's all your parents' fault! You can help save Christmas by reminding mom & dad that they're killing Santa! ACT NOW!" I can easily see PETA going this route in their effort to save Polar Bears in that region, actually.



posted on Sep, 2 2008 @ 07:01 PM
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reply to post by SmileyMan34
 





Anyway, I think the shiny side of the coin here is what we could find with less ice up there


Absolutely. I think when all of the ice melts, we'll see the hole into the center of the earth, that the allies of global warming also believe in.

paranormal.about.com...


If you were to fly north from New York City, across Canada directly to the Earth's physical North Pole, then kept going straight... you'd end up somewhere in Russia, right?

If you were to fly north from New York City, across Canada directly to the Earth's physical North Pole, then kept going straight... you'd end up somewhere in Russia, right?


The idea that the Earth is hollow is an outlandish one, on a par, many would argue, with a belief that the Earth is flat. There isn't much in the way of evidence, except for some unverifiable stories and a few highly contested photos that purport to show the hole at the North Pole. (There is supposedly a matching hole at the South Pole.) But the notion of a hollow Earth has persisted over the decades, most recently thanks to a few dozen websites that keep the speculation alive.


Note to Al Gore- Why not charge admission into the hole in the center of the earth?



posted on Sep, 2 2008 @ 08:11 PM
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Originally posted by Kryties

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
I think its rather ignorant, for anyone to believe they truly understand just what effect we are having on 'our' atmosphere.


Thats a fair call, cannot deny that at all.


Look at it like a balloon, if you had a inflated balloon, and placed a cigarette in it, that balloon eventually will fill up with chemicals. Our atmosphere is the same, all be it massively larger, its still a trapped environment.


The flaw in your argument is that the Earth has systems designed to filter out the toxins and what-not and produce new oxygen. Its best exampled by saying that if you fill that balloon up with our own breathe you will have a rather nasty mixture. The atmosphere inside the balloon cannot filter this, but Earth's biosystems can.


Not only that, but it seems our atmosphere is 'leaking' so not so much a "trapped environment"
Cluster watches Earth's leaky atmosphere



posted on Sep, 2 2008 @ 09:29 PM
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It's staggering how many people are willing to just "chance it" when it comes to global warming. We just happened to hit a 50,000 to 60,000 year "cycle" this 100 year span, in which we spewed a ton of carbon dioxcide into the atmosphere? Just cooincidence?

It's obvious something is going on, and it's not a good thing. Dismissing it out of hand as a "natural event" is imo, monumentally irresponsible. I have to laugh when I hear folks claim "it's normal!" as if they are wiser than the scores of scientists who disagree. Or those that say we don't have the ability to affect our own planet. How ludicrous.

Even if there was say, a 25% chance of ourselves contributing to the effect, I think a LOT more attention should be given to it. Saying "it's just the way it goes, it's nature!" is a lazy cop out by folks who don't want to change how they do things.



posted on Sep, 2 2008 @ 10:15 PM
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Sorry for the following RANT (a Republican Antic Not Thoughtout)... some of my comments clearly don't belong in this thread... but all do involve the environment.... its easy to go off in another direction with emotions...as the environment is a touchy subject...anyhow, altho inoffensive as I may think the following is... and uneducated as I may sound... apologies going forward ahead of time...

It's unfortunate that there are those who believe Global Warming being man made is a farce. How could those who don't believe we are impacting, NOT 100% creating global warming, but possibly adding to it...maybe even creating it.... BUT the point is, we are raping our planet and our environment... Enuff about Antartica this and Greenland that.... the debate is over... there is evidence to promote both sides of the argument...
BUT....
when it comes down to logic... Co2 in higher levels traps in HEAT.. there is no other way around that..... CO2 is trapping heat from the sun.. with out co2 our planet would be ICE... Now, to little co2 and we'd freeze now think if we'd have to much?? and we are talking very minor changes in co2 levels to do this... we don't need to see the charts flying high up in the air.. minute amounts make all the difference....

How do ppl not realize, whether or not that Volcanoes or forest fires put out more Co2 than humans.. Again... its not the point of what nature does.. its the point of what we do.... the balance is thrown off! the ONLY thing that is happening is it is accumulating.... seriously, give me a logical explanation and tell me that the balance of Co2 output by nature and humans is higher than by the intake by nature... and tell me a logical answer that this is doing nothing?
again, where do you think all that co2 is going???? it is accumulating. the rainforests and summer months no longer breathe in an equal amount of co2.. the balance is thrown off.. We are putting more co2 in the air than is being taken out...
the debate is over...
global warming is real! and it is real by BOTH nature born and Man-Made only fueling the fire... It is now only an Internet hoax and its a sad hoax b/c there is ONLY positive that can come out of this guys.. its time to put country second and world first.... we need to wake up and stop raping our planet, our animals, our oceans of fish.. .we ONLY live in the NOW and can care less what happens 10, 20, 100 years out... oops... Stellar Sea lions on the brink of extinction, down 90% in population the past 10years.. . lets fish out more Herring and get as much as we can now...and then the Alaskan coast line can rot...
How oops... Polar Bears have increased in population from the 80's to 90's but are lighter in weight by 10-20% on average.... and now they are in danger... Oops where'd all the ice go??? where are the polar bears?
oops.. what about the penguins in Antartica??? dying off by the thousands every year b/c of over fishing and they are runningn low on food...
oopss... lets burn more fuel and create more Co2 and throw of the balance in nature so there is less plantkon, less krill, less food, less animals... less humans...less earth..
Just like Drilling for more oil... it wont work... As the years go forward increased demand of Oil will Sky Rocket as it is now... so we increase our supply by small amounts and will never catch up... even if we do catch up, we will never meet the demand and we will always have to drill..
Just like a drug addict needing its fix now.. same goes for oil...
just like raping our planet and burn more Co2 in the air.... So, b/c there is a CHANCE its not man made.. so b/c some ppl think there is a chance we are not impacting the climate.. Let's burn more fossil fuel... thats why its called fossil. its old.. time to change our ways..



posted on Sep, 2 2008 @ 10:20 PM
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Originally posted by fleabit
It's staggering how many people are willing to just "chance it" when it comes to global warming. We just happened to hit a 50,000 to 60,000 year "cycle" this 100 year span, in which we spewed a ton of carbon dioxcide into the atmosphere? Just cooincidence?


Chance what exactly? Look if the earth gets warmer more food for us longer growing season. As far as flooding if north pole melts sea levels will decrease learned this in science class easy experiment here! experiment: put some water in a jug or bowl, add a layer of ice cubes and mark the level — wait until the ice has melted and look again, the level will have fallen).



It's obvious something is going on, and it's not a good thing. Dismissing it out of hand as a "natural event" is imo, monumentally irresponsible. I have to laugh when I hear folks claim "it's normal!" as if they are wiser than the scores of scientists who disagree. Or those that say we don't have the ability to affect our own planet. How ludicrous.


Truth is to act on speculations is irresponsible and unrealistic reality is even if the United states and Europe stopped using all fossil fuels. And i guess stop breathing since that emits co2. The countries that are just now trying to catch up will more than make up for co2 emissions china is allready double the United states and still most Chinese dont even own a car. You'll have south America, Africa and Asian countries . Having to do what the so called industralized nations did use natural resources. Reality is the west could kill themselves trying to meet 0 emissions Spend trillians of dollors that could be put to better uses and still not make a dent in world co2 levels. This is where that old saying comes in cut off your nose to spite your face. The real reason to try to stop using coal and gas is to develop renewable energy that way energy cost become cheaper over time. no need to scare us it will happen.



posted on Sep, 2 2008 @ 10:41 PM
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reply to post by VIKINGANT
 


So all this ice melting ... how comes sea levels have not risen?



posted on Sep, 2 2008 @ 11:42 PM
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I have to laugh.

The green lobby will use this as a hopeless "I told you so" effort.

This is the first time in recorded history but maybe the thousandth time in world geological / physical planetary history. there was once miles upon miles of ice covering europe, north america where all the green freaks are sipping their starbucks lattes and wearing their dock martins, squeegeeing windows & punking out like the posers they are.

No offence to the OP, but to green lobby, get over yourselves already. The world has awakened to your endless drama long ago Maaaaaaaaaaan!

Hey Greeners,
Want to do something? Consider killing some over populated pests in the various locales. Bears, seal and moose are a good start as well as those furry rats. Try putting pressure on the GOV to DEMONETIZE energy. Push the water energy agenda. Those are the only fights worth fighting if you are truly green and near human intelligence.

PETA/WWF/USPCA need a real enemy besides the average joe.




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