Economy in Recession? More Liberal Lies?

We are not technically in a recession but it's also a fact middle class nominal incomes have declined steadily during the Bush Administration.

Originally posted by Schaden
We are not technically in a recession but it's also a fact middle class nominal incomes have declined steadily during the Bush Administration.

Do you have any sources or data that confirms this?

And how specifically do you define middle-class nominal income?

Thanks.

reply to post by jamie83


Our current account...you have to scroll to the bottom to see where we stand..
www.cia.gov...

Dollar index


Price of oil


US Consumer Debt


List of banks that have gone insolvent since 2005
www.fdic.gov...

When are you people gonna get it. If you take just our national debt, combined with our entitlement deficit, you come up with a debt figure that is literally higher than the combined GDP of the entire Planet. Every country, combined, could not pay back what we owe. The United States is upside down. You could package the entire country up, industry, homes, skyscrapers and all, and sell the whole thing in one gigantic real estate
transaction, and you still couldn't even pay off half of the combined debt. Get it?

In the next few months, pay attention to the S&P 500, I hope your delusions take care of you then. Oh, and if you're wondering who your great grand kids are going to be paying taxes too for the rest of their lives.....


Liberal mischief.......................... It's simple math. Anyone with eyes can see that the mighty ship of state is about to run aground.

[edit on 1-9-2008 by aravoth]

So, how does the US rank in comparison to other countries with regard to National Debt as % of their GDP?

Who said the US national debt was more than all the other countries combined?


Rank Country Public debt
(% of GDP) Date of Information
1 Zimbabwe 211.90 2007 est.
2 Japan 195.50 2007 est.
3 Lebanon 186.60 2007 est.
4 Seychelles 144.30 2007 est.
5 Jamaica 127.20 2007 est.
6 Egypt 105.80 2007 est.
7 Italy 104.00 2007
8 Singapore 101.20 2007 est.
9 Sudan 98.90 2007 est.
10 Greece 89.70 2007 est.
11 Belgium 84.90 2007 est.
12 Sri Lanka 83.90 2007 est.
13 Bhutan 81.40 2004
14 Cote d'Ivoire 81.10 2007 est.
15 Israel 80.60 2007 est.
16 Norway 75.10 2007 est.
17 Jordan 72.70 2007 est.
18 Morocco 72.40 2007 est.
19 Canada 68.50 2007 est.
20 Hungary 67.00 2007 est.
21 Uruguay 67.00 2007 est.
22 France 64.00 2007 est.
23 Portugal 63.60 2007 est.
24 Germany 63.10 2007 est.
25 Nicaragua 63.00 2007 est.
26 United States 60.80 2007 est.
27 Cyprus 59.60 2007 est.
28 Austria 59.30 2007 est.
29 Argentina 59.00 June 2007 est.
30 Mauritius 58.80 2007 est.
31 India 58.00 2007 est.
32 Philippines 55.80 2007 est.

reply to post by aravoth


Ironic that you started off proving your case with a chart of the value of the U.S. dollar.

Contrary to popular opinion, this isn't necessarily a bad thing for the U.S. economy.

First, it helps U.S. exports.

Second, and probably more importantly, it allows the U.S. to make the debt payments that you are worried about with currency that is worth less than the currency that was borrowed.

In other words, say the dollars the U.S. borrowed in 2001 are pegged at $1.00. Now when we repay the debt in 2008 dollars, the dollars we are using to pay back the loans are only worth $.60. It's the foreign countries who hold the debt that are losing out, not the U.S.

Overall, the U.S. economy is fine -it's not anywhere close to collapsing.

hmm okay op i dontknow
everything seems to be just going downhill..prices are hella up. it seems like rough times.

Originally posted by jamie83
reply to post by aravoth

 

Overall, the U.S. economy is fine -it's not anywhere close to collapsing.

Remember you said this..

In other words, say the dollars the U.S. borrowed in 2001 are pegged at $1.00. Now when we repay the debt in 2008 dollars, the dollars we are using to pay back the loans are only worth $.60. It's the foreign countries who hold the debt that are losing out, not the U.S.

Overall, the U.S. economy is fine -it's not anywhere close to collapsing.

This is a very good point, and with the introduction of the Amero, it can even be less owed.

No one pays anyone back anyway. Many countries owe the US alot of money, do you think the US has seen any of it? No.

The US ranks 23rd on the list in terms of debt to income ratio. It means there are lots of countries (including Japan, Canada etc.) that have more debt as opposed to what their GDP brings in. They are piling up more debt, though their income doesn't allow them to.

America's debt to income ratio in terms of the GDP is showing a 3% growth rate in spite of a Global rise in Gas and Food prices.

Bottom line, the US economy is doing just fine for the most part, especially in comparison to other first-world nations.

[edit on 1-9-2008 by jetxnet]

Originally posted by jetxnet


Who said the US national debt was more than all the other countries combined?

I said we owe more than the combined global GDP. I did not say we owe more than the entire debt of every country as a percentage of their GDP.

I said we owe more than the combined global GDP. I did not say we owe more than the entire debt of every country as a percentage of their GDP.

If that's true, then it's because the US was the world's only Trillion$ economy up until the last few years where China has now reached that mark as well.

Microsoft alone as a company has more GDP than most 3rd world countries.

Hey, Here's a little glance at how some actual businesses are responding to your boombing economy...


Ann Taylor closing 117 stores nationwide.

Eddie Bauer to close more stores after closing 27 stores in the first quarter.

Cache, a women’s retailer is closing 20 to 23 stores this year.

Lane Bryant, Fashion Bug, Catherines closing 150 stores nationwide

Talbots, J. Jill closing stores. Talbots will close all 78 of its kids and men's stores plus another 22 underperforming stores. The 22 stores will be a mix of Talbots women's and J. Jill.

Gap Inc. closing 85 stores

Foot Locker to close 140 stores

Wickes Furniture is going out of business and closing all of its stores. The 37-year-old retailer that targets middle-income customers, filed for bankruptcy protection last month.

Levitz - the furniture retailer, announced it was going out of business and closing all 76 of its stores in December. The retailer dates back to 1910.

Zales, Piercing Pagoda plans to close 82 stores by July 31 followed by closing another 23 underperforming stores.

Disney Store owner has the right to close 98 stores.

Home Depot store closings 15 of them amid a slumping US economy and housing market. The move will affect 1,300 employees. It is the first time the world's largest home improvement store chain has ever closed a flagship store.

CompUSA (CLOSED).

Macy's - 9 stores closed

Movie Gallery – video rental company plans to close 400 of 3,500 Movie Gallery

and Hollywood Video stores in addition to the 520 locations the video rental

chain closed last fall as part of bankruptcy.

Pacific Sunwear - 153 Demo stores closing

Pep Boys - 33 stores of auto parts supplier closing

Sprint Nextel - 125 retail locations to close with 4,000 employees following 5,000 layoffs last year.

J. C. Penney, Lowe's and Office Depot are all scaling back

Ethan Allen Interiors: plans to close 12 of 300 stores to cut costs.

Wilsons the Leather Experts – closing 158 stores

Bombay Company: to close all 384 U.S.-based Bombay Company stores.

Dillard's Inc. will close another six stores this year.

link: www.globalresearch.ca...

Yo GroundCover, you can attribute alot of those business close-ups to the Walmart monopoly, can you not?

Walmart alone has more GDP than most 3rd world countries.

It's called monopolization. You drive out other businesses using a "predatory pricing" model such that Walley World does. Micrsoft did the same to monopolize the computer software market.

Walmart sells everything - hardware, toys, jewelry, tires, pharmacy, clothes, electronics - you name it.

The choices are becoming less, soon it will just be Walmart and the Internet if the NWO gets it's way.

You should be for free enterprise - it gives you more choices and creates competition and raises standards.

Originally posted by jetxnet

I said we owe more than the combined global GDP. I did not say we owe more than the entire debt of every country as a percentage of their GDP.

If that's true, then it's because the US was the world's only Trillion$ economy up until the last few years where China has now reached that mark as well.

Microsoft alone as a company has more GDP than most 3rd world countries.

No "if" about it.
www.cia.gov...

Stop believing everything your told on TV.

reply to post by skyshow



Great list. Thanks for sharing. This anecdotal type of list might have more meaning if you included a list of all the businesses that are opening up new offices and stores.

During the period where credit was easy, many businesses over-expanded. Now we're seeing a correction.

It happens all the time. It's part of the normal business cycle. It's happened this way for at least 100 years.

reply to post by skyshow


Oh and some more (this is just a small handfull of the companies in trouble, but you get the point):

Starbucks to close 600 stores.

I don't think they mentioned Walmart stopping new store building, and a whole handful of other large box retailers who are closing their doors.

Even among stores not closing, a lot of folks are being laid off or hours severely cut if they are hourly and lucky enough to stay on.

All over the country housing markets have slumped, and huge strip malls are emptying out. Car sales are in a slump, advertising revenues are way down. The major car companies are nearing bankruptcy. Airlines are in bad shape...

Energy and Food isn't factored into the official inflation factors, if it were, according to a Republican (can't remember his name but he was a congressmen) testifying a few months back on C-Span, said it would be above 12%...other experts and officials say it may even be up around 20%

but the OP says we are experiencing huge growth and that liberals are telling us lies.

Your actually doing the progressive side a favor with these crazy posts because it showcases the kind of uneducated and irrational viewpoints so prevalent amongst conservatives. Please continue to make these threads and liberal use of the word "liberal".

Pacific Sunwear - 153 Demo stores closing

-- Reason - Walmart sells clothes

Sprint Nextel - 125 retail locations to close with 4,000 employees following 5,000 layoffs last year.

-- Reason - Verizon and Alltell having most of the market share

J. C. Penney, Lowe's and Office Depot are all scaling back

-- Reason - Walmart sells everything JC Penny does and most of what Office Depot does


Wilsons the Leather Experts – closing 158 stores

-- Walmart and Target sell genuine leather coats now

Bombay Company: to close all 384 U.S.-based Bombay Company stores.

-- Walmart sells furniture and home accessories

Best Buy (Closed)

-- Walmart sells electronics

See a distrubing pattern here? Everyone shops at Walmart and when they're there - they get everything else they need.

[edit on 1-9-2008 by jetxnet]

Your actually doing the progressive side a favor with these crazy posts because it showcases the kind of uneducated and irrational viewpoints so prevalent amongst conservatives. Please continue to make these threads and liberal use of the word "liberal".

Oh c'mon now with the attacks here ..

We are growing - a slowed growth, but still GROWING 3% GDP!

We have a huge service industry that is Internet based as well.

You are picking companies out of the blue and saying it's because of the economy. Companies have been closing since the dawn of business and in large ways due to competition by elimination.

When certain companies dominate the market, other companies close - it's that simple and nothing to do with the US economy in recession.

reply to post by jamie83


Well, your the one promoting the booming economy. I would imagine you would be the first to share such a list with us. What corporations are they? How many new jobs verses what have been lost? Real dollar income growth. With a booming economy we should see tax revenues increasing dramatically, but in reality we see freezes on gov. spending because the revenue isn't there.

Could it be you just haven't taken off the rose colored glasses yet? Your insistance in holding onto and promoting these viewpoints here is kind of like trying to pull an aircraft carrier with a row boat...your churning up some water, breaking a sweat, burning a ton of calories, but not succeeding in getting it to budge even an inch. The facts just simply aren't on your side sir, and I mean that very politely. If the official figures had integrity your position would have merit. There is plenty of evidence that suggests strongly that the figures aren't accurate, thus my analogy of the row boat thing...

Why keep barking at the tree when the coon ain't up there? At some point you either move to a new tree or call it a day right?

[edit on 1-9-2008 by skyshow]

reply to post by jetxnet


the debt is killing us. your 3% growth is getting gobbled up with consumer debt, massive inflation, and defaults all over the place....

Yes on paper we see the 3%. However that doesn't tell us the whole story, in fact it tells us virtually nothing at all without the other information.

BTW, you can call it whatever you want but an attack it's not. Infact the title of the thread by your logic could be classified as an attack. I'm saying it's not taking away from the liberal cause one iotta; if anything it's strengthening it! So thankyou!

[edit on 1-9-2008 by skyshow]

Originally posted by jetxnet

We have a huge service industry that is Internet based as well.

Great, people can get a job at Mcdonalds so they can buy their lunch at Burger King.


[edit on 1-9-2008 by aravoth]