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Time to let New Orleans sink?

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posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 03:58 PM
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Damn,

So much for the cheap 3.58 per gallon gas!

Okay FOX news give the village people what they don't want to hear!




posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 05:07 PM
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as much as i disagree with socialism; there are times that we need to rely upon the government.

the people in new orleans had an implicit guarantee from the government that the levies were safe. the government has refused to invest in fixing the levies before Katrina. the levies have been compromised before. hurricane Betsy--for one.

the evacuation order was lifted the night before the levies started breaching. fema knew this, but the residents were not notified until the day after.

the technology exists to build the levies correctly--estimated at 10 billion. the dutch have faced similar situations and invested in infrastructure.

new orleans is one of the only deep water ports in the southeast USA. the oil interests have destroyed the natural marshlands, which would have acted as a barrier.

the 10 billion would have been a lot cheaper than allowing this to happen in the first place, not to mention spiraling insurance costs.

infrastructure all over the US is failing due to "painted rust". the interstate bridge collapse, the sewers in Atlanta, etc.

politicians like funding fun things like sports arenas and the like; instead of necessary maintenance of our cities. as unpopular as it is. someone will have to pay. it is not necessarily the fault of the citizens.

why spend money bailing out bankers, when infrastructure is failing--not just in new orleans?



posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 05:13 PM
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I don't think that humanity will have much to say in this matter. NO is located 20+ feet below sealevel. Katrina rocked that area 3 years ago, and I don't think that those problems have been fixed or even cleaned up fully as of yet. And, God forbid, Gustav blows in and levels the town. No one wants that to happen.....but it has to be in the backs of people's minds.

If you live on coastal areas, live in areas on the coast that are below sea level, common sense should tell you that these are not the safest places in the world to reside.

Mankind may think he/she are the smartest, most evolved creatures on this planet and that nothing can defeat them.......but, mess with Mother Nature and all of your brains and evolutionary skills won't mean squat.



posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 05:25 PM
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i agree with you skeptic1. vesuvius is evidence of that. but do you really think that they are going to allow all of the port facilities, refineries and industry in new orleans to be shut down?

my guess is that if the area is restructured it will be in order to preserve the french quarter, the port and refinery facilities, with enough left over for some more casinos. just enough housing for the tourists and the workers.

btw. the levies can be built up to withstand hurricane flooding. in the event, you believe all coastal areas will be decimated in the near future--then we are all screwed anyway. this many killer hurricanes in such a short amount of time is bizarre indeed.

was it not the new deal that brought us out of the depression? things that put people to work, like the Hoover Dam and the road and railway to the florida keys?



posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 06:23 PM
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this whole situation reminded me of a sketch on the holy grail




Listen, lad. I built this kingdom up from nothing. When I started here, all there was was swamp. Other kings said I was daft to build a castle on a swamp, but I built it all the same, just to show 'em. It sank into the swamp. So, I built a second one. That sank into the swamp. So, I built a third one. That burned down, fell over, then sank into the swamp, but the fourth one... stayed up! And that's what you're gonna get, lad: the strongest castle in these islands.


some things i think are inevitable, and people will save themselves alot of pain and heartache not to mention potential loss of loved ones, if they used alittle common sense (well these days its uncommon sense). i understand no body likes to be forced into a desicion especially if that desicion is abandoning their homes. but there is no point fighting a battle that you will always loose over and over. ive always wanted to visit NO but i suspect that day will never come as i think its time to conceed defeat and look to shoreing up other vulnerable areas as this is only just the begining of the potentail chaos being unleashed on the planet.



posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 06:47 PM
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here is a link I was reading that points to my original thought, to let the Mississippi reclaim the Delta region.

It's titled "Infeasibility of Rebuilding New Orleans".
pesn.com...

[edit on 31-8-2008 by jwstarry]



posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 06:48 PM
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Originally posted by Fathom
what if...you stay your happy ass out of new orlean's business? how about you realize that there is poeple out here that have more honor ans sense of community than you do.
I will rebuild New Orleans one thousand times after one thousand hurricanes and most Louisianas feel the same way!


How will you pay for it? Should the rest of the country keep footing the bill? You won't be able to buy insurance anymore. I donated heavily after Katrina. I won't do it again and I think you will find many who feel the same. Do you think the rest of us owe you for some reason? Dog bites you once its the dogs fault. Dog bites you again its your fault.

Should the Red Cross, Salvation Army and others continue to exhaust their resources on people who keep rebuilding in harms way on purpose? Or should they use their resources to help those who are in need who have not caused their own problems on purpose?

Do you really think the businesses are going to keep rebuilding over an over again. If they do they go bankrupt anyway and nobody is going to insure them.

The number one question is why was New Orleans built in that location to begin with? When a mistake is made, you just don't keep making the same mistake over and over again unless you are insane.



posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 07:08 PM
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I have never understood this love for where you grew up. I live where the employment opportunites take me. Where one lives does not make a person. Towns and cities, like all living organisms have a life span. It's sad when they die, but nothing can live forever.



posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 07:39 PM
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All this comparison to N.O. is a bunch of fooey. People on the West Coast who deal with earthquakes all the time, have to build their homes to a certin standard so that their homes and business dont fall each time the ground quakes. For those living in Seattle and Washington, if their only protection from lava was shabby manmade structures, then we could start talking. We are not talking about just anywhere getting hit by a hurricane, and we all know it. N.O. is different. The only thing keeping it dry are man made structures that have proven to not work in extreme circumstances. One way or another that area is going to fill up with water. The fact that people refuse to leave during dangerous times is down right irresponsible and selfish, because other people have to risk their lives and we have to spend lots of money saving their behinds.

Yea Im talking about money again. Not because it is more important than a human life either. The people of N.O. are not the only ones in need of financial help. Money doesnt just grow on trees. We don't have an endless supply. If you havent noticed, Federal money has been needed a lot this past year or two.

A lot of what helped the area rebuild was donations. That is not going to happen this time. If you havent noticed, quite a few Americans are pinching pennies right now.

I think it is great if you want to take on the responsibility of rebuilding N.O. again to make it like it was pre Katrina. BUT I hope you can afford it, because I'M BROKE.



posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 09:04 PM
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They shouldn't let New Orleans sink if they rebuild it right. But if they rebuild the city like it was before Katrina we can't keep bailing it out. The levee system obviously doesn't work. Maybe if they had a seawall like the Netherlands they could resist hurricanes better than the antiquated levee system. I love Cajun food, would be a shame to lose the city!



posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 09:22 PM
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it's not the people of new orleans fault that the negligence of the government put them in harms way. state and local government should have addressed this situation long ago. they certainly collected their share of ad valorem taxes. it is not the peoples fault that an unnecessary war;unprecedented social programs; and massive sales of treasuries and government bonds to foreigners have bankrupted our country. the people are not the problem. follow the money.


i'm not saying we should subsidize people who choose to live here, but we should help them out of harms way. the same as we would when a ship is sinking.



posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 09:26 PM
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Originally posted by matthOk good, you don't believe in karma. So that's why I included the quote "what goes around comes around", because the same thing can be implied. Anyway if you want to debate I'll debate you, but if you're just going to put words in my mouth then don't bother because I have no interest in debating the ignorant. That's why I come to this website, to get away from ignorance and the close minded.


uh...


No, I don't want to debate it with you. It is becoming clear to most ppl who have an ounce of sense that those who continue to return and invest their $$ and life into this place knowing the (not only possible anymore, but) likely outcome will not be good should be held responsible for their bad choice and not look to everyone else who have the sense to stay away.

There also really is no point in debating it bc it looks like nature is making its course known and doesn't really give a *snip* as to what your opinion is.

And ignorance and close mindedness would be more in line with those who continue to go back in the line of fire.

FYI: I do believe in karma... but nature has nothing to do with karma. My karma will not be bad because these ppl keep making the foolish decision to return to an obvious disaster zone. That is on them, not me.

Karma has to do with YOU and the choices you make in your life.

Case and point.. ppl continuing to invest money and other ppl's money into an obvious disaster trap. If a person chooses, FOR WHATEVER REASON to place themselves there, the consequences for that choice is on them, not me!
I don't feel guilty for their choice. I never forced them to live there.


[edit on 31-8-2008 by justamomma]



posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 09:30 PM
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reply to post by bow chikka bow bow
 


Let the #hole sink! It is full of filth, crime, and trash. The only bad part is the idiots that live there come to my town to live off of the Government! Villa Rica GA



posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 09:33 PM
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There is no protection from a lahar coming off Mt. Rainier but high ground and distance. Seattle and Tacoma both have built over river estuaries that'll be scrubbed clean to Puget Sound. Lava is probably a lesser concern. Ash and poisonous gas are other unknowns.

The 'don't pay for it with my taxes' schtick cuts both ways. There are thousands of little, rural towns that are connected together by infrastructure taht everyone pays into. No way some town of 300 residents rates a four-lane interstate freeway, railroad, fiber, etc. - that town will never pay in taxes what it recieves from larger, denser, urban areas. But that's ok. I don't mind paying, it's really not that much for what I get in return.

Abandon New Orleans. Maybe. But don't do it now. All the infrastructure needs to be relocated. NO is a colossal port. It's on the Mississippi River. Oil, natural gas, chemicals are huge in the Delta. You can't just abandon it without seriously disrupting the economy (you thought $4 gas was bad). The levees have to be maintained to the point that ship and barge traffic can nagivate. Otherwise, everything the North Amercian consumer covets, shoots up in price. Keeping the Delta navigable can probably be done as the rest of the City is abandoned, but you can't do it overnight.

[Louisiana is petro-chemical central. You'd abandon $billions only to have to rebuild it and spend $billions somewhere else. Where else?

The consumer would foot the bill. And I'm guessing as just 'some guy on the internet' that it would be more than any additional taxes I would have pay to keep NO afloat for the next 500 years. And how.

Of every $1000 I pay to the Federal Government, how much goes to NO and the people that live there?]



posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 09:35 PM
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Originally posted by ogbert


it's not the people of new orleans fault that the negligence of the government put them in harms way. state and local government should have addressed this situation long ago. they certainly collected their share of ad valorem taxes. it is not the peoples fault that an unnecessary war;unprecedented social programs; and massive sales of treasuries and government bonds to foreigners have bankrupted our country. the people are not the problem. follow the money.


The government is the reason there has been a New Orleans this long. It is a big bowl. The natural thing is for it to be full of water. They have already pointed out that the entire area keeps sinking further. There is only so much that can be done. I dont see how that is the governments fault.



i'm not saying we should subsidize people who choose to live here, but we should help them out of harms way. the same as we would when a ship is sinking.


We did! Last time! They decided to climb back abord the sinking ship. And 'sinking ship' is an excelent analogy to use here.



posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 10:10 PM
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reply to post by mrsdudara
 



You are correct! I was watching a story about a woman who had survived Katrina, but lost her home and everything she had. The government stepped in and helped her by sending her to classes on how to manage her money wisely, they found her a better job than she had previously, and helped her financially get into a home that would be in her name (a few steps up from her previous home and she was no longer renting, but owned)... I thought, "eh, well at least our money is going to a good purpose this time by helping them to invest wisely and actually teaching them how to walk with their own two feet"

UNTIL they said where she had chosen to have her house built (with tax payers $$ mind you)....

NEW ORLEANS!!
That was the point where I lost sympathy! They would have let her build it anywhere... hell, she could have even built it not far from NO, but on higher grounds. I knew when she said that, the $$ invested into helping her get her life together was wasted. I just didn't think it would be *this* soon.



posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 11:19 PM
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most of you are a bunch of heartless bastards.

You complain how stupid it is to build in harms way, forgetting New Orleans was build here because of the river, it grew because of the port. You can sit back and complain about how stupid we are for living here, and take for granted all of the supplies you have (like oil) that come into this country from THIS PORT!!!!

This city was not built here on a drunken dare about hurricanes, like so many of you seem to believe. It is part of the price of living here and I deal with it and accept that my house and everythign I own could be destroyed. There is no place in this country devoid of some kind of natural disaster. Tornadoes can form whenever wherever as long as conditions are right, they don't just form in tornado alley.

Thankfully some other users brought this up - what about towns decimated by tornadoes? should they not be rebuild becasue they are stupid for living in tornado alley?

Or how about new york? It's a hugely important hub in the US economy. After the 9/11, should the people of that city be forced to move? By your logic, it is stupid to live there, because of the threat of an attack. (I'm not saying whether or not 9/11 was really terrorists or an inside job. It doesn't matter becasue NY IS a target that terrorists/enemies of the US would hit if they decide to attack the US)


And, not all of this city is below sea level - parts are and parts aren't.

You talk like a bunch of new orleanians have posted on here begging for your money and help to rebuild. # you, we don't need your help!!

You are attacking the poor black residents here and talking about them like you know what they are like. It seems the only info you have on them is from the mainstream news. I bet NONE of you have stepped foor in the 9th ward.

This is an amazing place and I am going to continue to live here, and I understand why others want to live here, poor or not.


Before Katrina, we went 40 years without a really bad hurricane. Now there are a some, and in a few years, it'll calm back down again.

[edit on 8/31/2008 by Dark Realms]



posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 11:35 PM
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There comes a time when people have to learn to get past their stubbornness and do what they have to do to survive, and those that don't, well natural selection will take care of them. Not heartless, just sensible.



posted on Sep, 1 2008 @ 12:13 AM
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It may not make sense to rebuild, it may not be good business to rebuild, it may not be smart or right or anything else people want to say, but it is human nature to rebuild.
It is an inherant trait of humans, of people, to never ever give up to never stop to never let something stand in the way no mattter how big or how powerful or how bleak the prospect.

Part of what makes people so amazing, so wonderful is the dogged determination hardwired into us.

I say rebuild, if the U.K. or U.S. government would help me to move then i would leave England and set up home in downtown New Orleans.
I would fight and scrape and do whatever it took to carry on because when it comes down to it no matter what the odds you just have to keep on keeping on.

Those who return to rebuild New Orleans are showing the same spirit that got us to the moon, the same spirit that joined the railroads at Promentary, the same spirit that took the first seafairers around the world, the same spirit that will always prevail, and damn straight i respect the people of New Orleans for it.

[edit on 1-9-2008 by full997]



posted on Sep, 1 2008 @ 02:05 AM
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Your point is valid and to be considered.
The world is changing, and in that there is no doubt.
Why it’s changing - that depends on what theory you subscribe to (Global warming, sun flares, end time prophecy, earth shifts, Mayan curses, whatever).
Point being - what are *We* going to do about our Homes/Nation through that change?
Keep rebuilding over and over and over?
Find a happy medium?
Really interesting post/topic.






...He'll flip-ya...



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