New ex-Christian who is lost in his own freedom and uncertainty.

reply to post by Simplynoone


At the time when this all started, I was a doctoral student pursuing a degree in public policy and administration. I specialize primarily in defense. Basically, I was starting out along the same path as all my male ancestors, but I got a nudge into something somewhat different.

I don't like to talk about it. Because if people can't even agree on what the Bible is trying to say, I know I can't possibly have a constructive conversation based on my theoretical work. I come to these threads to get feedback.

My experiences with the demonic and Divine are right here in the archives of ATS.

The first time I truly knew there was more to life than meets the eye was August 16, 2001. I won't go into it here in detail, but lets just say I heard the gongs and cymbals and saw through the thin fabric of four dimensional reality. I could hear the thoughts of everyone around me like a cacophony of squawking birds in my head. It took a moment or two to get a handle on the new parameters of my life, to say the least. I attracted quite a bit of unwanted attention that night.

MRIs enhance Psychic Abilities

Next came a ride-along with what I believe to be an antediluvian spirit, most likely demonic.

Morphine-induced OOBE during spinal tap

Electric blue has now become one of my favorite colors. I was always a fan of blue, but mostly the dark or very light shades.

Then came August 19, 2004.

My Epiphany

Thank you, Lord!

Within a couple weeks I received my codeword in a lucid dream, but that isn't related to this topic, and is not something I can go into in detail here.

Call me crazy, say I'm making it up, whatever. Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior, and that is all that really matters anymore.

John 17

13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.

14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

Amen.

reply to post by TruthParadox


Ah, context, naysayer, context. Let's look at it for one moment.

Matthew 5

22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Notice the colon. Christ is speaking to the brethren here, fellow believers.

Matthew 23

13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows’ houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.

15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

16 Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!

17 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?

Christ is speaking to the Pharisees in Matthew 23, not the brethren. There is no contradiction but the one you are trying to fabricate.

You know, the devil is a master of Scripture, but he takes it out of context and uses it to confuse the weak and lead them astray.

reply to post by Icarus Rising


www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...


Respond or ignore?

reply to post by bruxfain


If what you say does not happen, and life carries on just as it always has, will you admit to being wrong? I have seen so many predictions and prophecies which have not come true. Every single time a "prophets" predictions do not come true, they do not say that they were wrong, they simply change the date. After that date has come and gone, and we are all fine and dandy, take my advice and don't make your life about changing the date and expecting the miraculous. If the miraculous does happen, it will happen when any of us least expects it. I believe it was your own God that said no one knows the date to such events. If I were you, I'd consider those words very carefully.

Wolf hon what do you really want out of this post ?
What really are you searching for ?
I would suggest that you just take a break and think on what led you to believe there was a God in the first place obviously it was real or you would not be in here makiing posts like this ,What I am seeing is someone who doesnt feel real good with himself right now and your wanting badly for the Lord to hold you and show you he loves you and tell you that he is real ,And he is trying to but your just not letting him just like your not letting us help you feel better even though we are trying ,let yourself go to him if you have to really let all the pain and heartache out CRY like a baby (crying really does cleanse the heart ) like a child crawling up in daddys lap ,The bible even says thou hast left thy first love(Which is God ) then it says go back and do the first works again SAY YOUR SORRY and just give it all to him as in HOLD ME LORD and he really does hold you spiritually ,And guess what unlike us humans who cant even forgive ourselves,He forgives us COMPLETELY so quit beating yourself up and pick up and go on forward not backward.
And if your just dead set against even wanting to know him ,then all I can say is life will certainly end up bringing you back around to this same ole question again someday.Your young and God really does understand a young spirit,But know that he will not play games with you and he will not be mocked.
And be very careful what you tell others about how you dont believe in no God, or if you try and steer others away from believing in him just because your mad at him ,because thats just plain wrong and I am worried that it could cause another believer who is reading who may just give it up to ,then you not only have your life in a mess but now you have another young person who is in the same boat as you.Why would you want them feeling miserable with you?It doesnt feel good to you,it sure wont feel good to them either.
If you want to feel better Wolf,then just say ok Lord you SHOW ME that you are REAL ,and you wait for him to do that(remember it may not be in the way you expected)I have done it before and I regreted it mainly because I had to learn everything the hard way and he knew it .
Then if it dont work thats your answer and you can just carry on right ?
But dont be disappointed if he trys to show himself to you again some day
He does not give up on us NEAR as easy as we give up on him ..

Hope this didnt hurt you I really just want to help you,when I first saw this thread I avoided it because I could feel that you were not out of that bitter stage yet and you would not let anyone help you so I didnt try to.
I am praying for the best for you and that you can get outta this funk soon.
((((HUGS))) I am going back to argueing with aliens ok lol ...

Originally posted by TruthParadox
reply to post by bruxfain

 

You dance around the point I made.
1) God is omnipotent
2) God creates us the way we are

So he created us KNOWING that a portion of us would be "evil", as you say. He's omnipototent so he COULD have created us without this "evil". So you are directly stating that God created a portion of us to be good and a portion of us to be evil. Why should anyone have to suffer an ETERNITY (an eternity is a long time), simply because God failed to make us the way we should (according to YOUR God) be?

It could be no more simple than that.
You are left with these options, given ANY logic:
Either
God is not omnipotent,
God is evil,
or God is non-existent.

If my logic is flawed, then explain to me, using logic (not belief), how.

Now, you say that I do not have the truth, and you act as though I want to believe in a lie rather than truth. I am all for the truth. So where is your proof that God exists? Were is there even any logic that God exists? If God exists, then why is there the same amount of 'proof' for him than there is for Zeus or any other deity (that being none)?

Why are you so willing to believe that someone like me who is desperately seeking the truth would be sent to Hell? Doesn't that bother you, even a little? I would not want my greatest enemy to spend 2 seconds in a place like that, let alone eternity. Do you even realize how evil your belief system is?

Your logic is not flawed, it just that logic is not sufficient to understand the problem on Earth. I don't even know you, why would I want you to go to Hell? Because you're not a Christian, technically, i am not a Christian. i just consider the Bible to be a good book full of very useful truths. I had a long response but I am getting tired. I didn't erase what I put down. But if you tell me later that you are really an extra-dimensional entity which is occupying the body of some fool who started toying with the occult. I will tell you that you definately screwed and going straight to hell.

This is my answer. The creation is not just 3 dimensions of space and 1 dimension of time. If I use Genesis as a source, I would say that the creation contains at least 7 layers, each one being half light and half dark, plus time, which may differ in nature in each layer. This is speculation but I am certain that the creation is not just 3 dimensions of space and 1 of time. Quantum physics predicts many more.

Now, let me deal with you. You, nor anyone else, was created evil and corrupt. But we were obviously created with the ability to control our own actions. In man's quest for greater and greater knowledge and power, he actually became smarter and more powerful, obviously until he gained access to something foreign to his own dimension and he brought whatever this was into this reality.

This alien presence or whatever it is, being out of its proper place, corrupts this system and the men/women that brought it here. Whatever it is that is here and that is truly responsible for all the BS on this planet is being sent to were it belongs, the people who were benefitting from them are also returned to where they belong.

Its evil not inherently, but because it is out of place. God is a stickler for order. things that leave their appointed stations are ultimately destroyed.

I don't know if I can be clearer, there are things in this world that do not belong. Whatever it is they take lives. Don't ask me how. I don't know anything about the occult.

reply to post by Good Wolf


Uh, I think I did respond to the linked posts. If I didn't do so to your satisfaction, please be more specific in your request.

Originally posted by bruxfain
reply to post by Simplynoone

 

At the time when this all started, I was a doctoral student pursuing a degree in public policy and administration. I specialize primarily in defense. Basically, I was starting out along the same path as all my male ancestors, but I got a nudge into something somewhat different.

I don't like to talk about it. Because if people can't even agree on what the Bible is trying to say, I know I can't possibly have a constructive conversation based on my theoretical work. I come to these threads to get feedback.

LOL yes I hear ya about a constructive conversation ,but hey sometimes even us believers get some constructive conversations when we talk about what we talk about.You will always have those who say Your crazy,delusional etc etc ..who cares ..let em yakk ..actually we have ignore buttons in here lol .
Please would you consider making a post and telling your story so that we can all hear more about it in order to help you put it all together ?
I even need feedback when I have my dreams and so I tell them to family and friends,And Everyone thinks Im nuts until they happen,and so many all that time that now they all say DONT DREAM ABOUT ME lol I just laugh and tell them sorry I have no control over what I dream .
But their feed back does help even when they are not taking me seriously.

Originally posted by TruthParadox
reply to post by bruxfain

 

If what you say does not happen, and life carries on just as it always has, will you admit to being wrong? I have seen so many predictions and prophecies which have not come true. Every single time a "prophets" predictions do not come true, they do not say that they were wrong, they simply change the date. After that date has come and gone, and we are all fine and dandy, take my advice and don't make your life about changing the date and expecting the miraculous. If the miraculous does happen, it will happen when any of us least expects it. I believe it was your own God that said no one knows the date to such events. If I were you, I'd consider those words very carefully.

I really don't know how to respond to half of this stuff. I was predicting the end of the wars in iraq and afghanistan. I agree America will be fine and dandy. So I am not sure what your point is.

Victory in Iraq and Afghanistan will signal the defeat of militant Islam. Do you have any idea to how major that will be.

reply to post by Simplynoone


ill be happy to tell the story. but I have to sleep now i am just draging.

reply to post by Icarus Rising


Ah yes, but in trying to explain a contradiction, you make it worse.
You are saying that it's ok to call someone who does not believe in God a fool, but not your brethren. God also says that you should love your enemy and in many ways treat your enemies better than your friends. In what way is calling someone a fool turning the cheek?
Also, even if I'm dead wrong about this, what about all the other thousands of contradictions in the Bible?

John 1:18 "No man hath seen God at any time."

vs

Genesis 32:30 "For I have seen God face to face."

Exodus 33:11 "And the Lord spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend."


Romans 3:10 "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one."

vs

Luke 1:6 "And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless."


Exodus 20:13 "Thou shalt not kill."

vs

Exodus 32:27 "Thus sayeth the Lord God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, . . . and slay every man his brother, . . . companion, . . . neighbor."


So my question stands.
How can you expect someone to put so much stock in a book which is riddled with contradictions?

reply to post by bruxfain


You said in 60 days or so, something would happen. I am merely posting that so that when it does not happen, you will know that I successfully predicted that you would not change your belief, but simply morph it. I've seen it time and time again.

Originally posted by Icarus Rising
reply to post by Good Wolf

 

Uh, I think I did respond to the linked posts. If I didn't do so to your satisfaction, please be more specific in your request.

Im sorry, I over looked something and apologise. You did respond but it wasn't satisfactory and it never will be. You have a double standard going on. If your simply going to bif around the 'Context' argument anytime someone throws you a curveball, you are going to need to look at your own bible quotes aswell.


reply to post by Simplynoone


I appreciate the gesture again but I need to inform you on a thing or two. I'm not angry at the arguably-existent-God, cos He didn't do anything...
But that's the point isn't it, He didn't do anything.
I first believed in God because I was told to by Christian parents, and was put through the christian factory- sunday school (Shudder).

If there is anyone that I'm angry at, it's the brainwashing church and the potential-suppressing, logic-deifying devouts in the church. Ultimately I left the church because I didnt agree with the messages that were being spouted and I wanted to get to know God on my own terms....

AND here I am.

[edit on 9/3/2008 by Good Wolf]

Originally posted by TruthParadox
reply to post by Icarus Rising

 

Ah yes, but in trying to explain a contradiction, you make it worse.
You are saying that it's ok to call someone who does not believe in God a fool, but not your brethren. God also says that you should love your enemy and in many ways treat your enemies better than your friends. In what way is calling someone a fool turning the cheek?
Also, even if I'm dead wrong about this, what about all the other thousands of contradictions in the Bible?

John 1:18 "No man hath seen God at any time."

vs

Genesis 32:30 "For I have seen God face to face."

Exodus 33:11 "And the Lord spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend."


Romans 3:10 "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one."

vs

Luke 1:6 "And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless."


Exodus 20:13 "Thou shalt not kill."

vs

Exodus 32:27 "Thus sayeth the Lord God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, . . . and slay every man his brother, . . . companion, . . . neighbor."


So my question stands.
How can you expect someone to put so much stock in a book which is riddled with contradictions?

Zing!!


...And I play the deadly poison card.

How many of you are going to take Jesus at his word?

Mark 16:18

they[a] will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.

... And I raise you more Biblical Errancy

[edit on 9/3/2008 by Good Wolf]

Good Wolf, you wanting to get to know God on your own terms is what he wants you to do, not what the church wants you to do. Because if you were to do this on your own, they would not have power over you. That`s why I will not join any type of chuch to this day, and never will. That is why God gave us the free will we have, so others will not slow our growth with their power over us telling us to think, act and pray the way they want us to.

[edit on 3-9-2008 by FiatLux]

Originally posted by FiatLux
Good Wolf, you wanting to get to know God on your own terms is what he wants you to do, not what the church wants you to do. Because if you were to do this on your own, they would not have power over you. That`s why I will not join any type of chuch to this day, and never will. That is why God gave us the free will we have, so others will not slow our growth with their power over us telling us to think, act and pray the way they want us to.

I agree completely with what you said. But outside of the church, I put my beliefs on the table and examined them with scrutiny.

Firstly, as we have just been discussing, I decided that the Bible wasn't the (for the most part) the divine word of God cause it was confusing, conflicting etc.etc.etc. And the most I could get out of it was some good moral logic and some sayings. Since it was not the word of God, it could not represent God so thats where the hunt came in.

Next was faith. As I've said before blind faith in the unexplainable/unreasonable was foolish and risky.

Then I realised that the belief in God and the afterlife can be as a result of a bias observation interpretation due to the fear of death and mortality.

So why believe in a God at all. With those things aside, there isn't much making me think that there is a God.

That's why I started this thread.

[edit on 9/3/2008 by Good Wolf]

reply to post by Good Wolf


I understand what your saying about blind faith. Myself, I have had others who were BIG church members, ask me if I have read the bible. I told them I did. They asked me how I could believe in God if I didn`t believe in what the bible says. It`s like I told them, what I know of God comes from deep inside of me, an inner knowing. I have come to trust my "gut feelings" through my life, and it hasn`t failed me yet. We had to come from someone, something, whatever you may call it gave us this divine spark, soul or soul energy that makes us what we are. Believe me, it`s no sin to feel as you do, it`s your right to, as it was mine back then. I even questioned Gods existance back then. God stays out of the picture as we grow, as to not influance the path we want to take, it`s our choice to believe, or not to believe. I think your on the right road not letting others including myself, push a belief onto you that you may not feel right with. We have to make our own minds up as to how we want to believe and what we want to believe in. We must never allow others to think and believe for us. It`s your right to preceive God in any way you want to.



[edit on 3-9-2008 by FiatLux]

reply to post by FiatLux


Thank you very much for that understanding.

I'm starring you and switching you from foe to friend.

I guess a good place to start Good Wolf would be to look around you, and ask yourself, where did all of this come from. The Earth, all the life on it, including ourselves, the solar system we are in, to all the stars and galaxies and even the universe. My take on it is, that it was all created with one divine thought. To have a thought is to create. It`s kind of like the big bang so to speak. It took something very big to create all of this. That is why no one can really give it a name. Call it what you want, God, creator, the one, I AM, it really doesn`t matter.



[edit on 3-9-2008 by FiatLux]