Using Government databases to verify age on regular websites *warning*

reply to post by AGENT_T


Your right, it SHOULD be the parents responsibility and it IS STILL theirs. The government only steps into the parenting process when it becomes an issue of abuse.

Yet if you want to go that route then we might as well stop a restriction on smoking and drinking. I'm sure there are other laws out there that we can do away with as well. Hey, why not let a 10 year old into a strip club?


The logic is flawed, stupid at best. No thought is being put into your peoples arguments against this. The system itself is not at fault, it's the people who are trying to circumvent the system that are causing the systems to become more advanced and seemingly harsh.

Do you have any objections over movie/tv rating systems as well? It's no different, it is put in place to protect the kids from viewing content not suited for their age. It isn't a hard concept to grasp. What people decide to do, in regards to stealing information that doesn't belong to them, is a moot argument. It is entirely different concept all on its own. The CRIMINAL activities of one should not be an end all in trying to stop those criminal activities. If someone circumvents the system to gain illegal access to content not suited for their age, it is because of the criminal intent on their part.

Kids are not allowed already to view this material, so any arguments against the privacy and freedom is moot. This verification isn't detracting from your freedom to view the content and it isn't detracting from your privacy when you are providing the same basic information that you do on a daily basis to be a functional member of society.

reply to post by scientist


Apart from the fact that they keeping giving away our information to criminals by leaving it on laptops/busses/taxis.

They're certainly NOT showing that they're responsible enough to be trusted with it anyway.

[edit on 1-9-2008 by AGENT_T]

Originally posted by scientist
I am chalking up the confusion here to ignorance of the technical ramifications of the process involved with entering in details to be checked against government info.

I can also understand the hostility in this topic, because the conclusions are most certainly that anyone okay with this trend using children as an excuse, are indeed incapable of raising their own children.

If we can get beyond the personal aspect of that, I'm sure they will see the light eventually.

Part of it comes down to the word "responsibility," which keeps coming up. To me, being responsible would be to not release sensitive information on an unsecured website for all to see. Responsibility would also be teaching my children the same.

Also, I am asking you guys to extrapolate the scenario, as Agent has been able to do. This is not about a certain website, or about restricting videos with nudity from children. This is about the constant trend of giving up more and more information about yourself to companies and corporations, and the government. The more you give them, the more they will use, make sure of that. If they didn't care for the information, or didn't make use of it, they wouldn't ask you for it.

Even a kid could comprehend that, no?

This is information you already give out, how hard is that to understand? This verification system is not about the information, it is about VERIFYING the age of the user accessing the site. Where this information is public domain from the very first day you are born, throws the privacy issue out the window.

You already give the information out, so unless your a child whining about not being able to access something your already not supposed to access, then give up the childs argument.

AAARRRGGGHHH!! SERIOUSLY PEOPLE! I don't know whether to laugh or cry.. this site doesn't cater to ment... nvm.

If the problem is giving them your information, then take the steps RIGHT now to ensure that you will never have to give it out again. Do what it takes and when/if they still demand it, tell them "NO!"

I just find it futile considering they already have it

Hell, just throw your whole damn computer out the window, thus eliminating the original intent to bitch this whole thread is based on.

ppsssttt... they'll still have your information though

Originally posted by sirnex
If someone circumvents the system to gain illegal access to content not suited for their age, it is because of the criminal intent on their part.

Huuurrrayyy!!.. And there we have it.. The REAL reason for this beauracratic bull-plop..
The implementation of criminal classification.

The misdemeanour of 'looking at nudy pics' is now upgraded to 'Identity fraud'

Congrats..You managed that all by yourself.

Yayy.. That's what we've been needing..more criminals..more chippings.

reply to post by AGENT_T


Are you just playing ignorant here? If the kid steals the information to gain access because (as you kids here like to argue) it infringes on their freedom and privacy, then that is a SEPARATE issue regardless of the system being used to verify the age of the user trying to gain access.

No where did I mention viewing nudies was upgraded to identity fraud. The activities of the kids stealing mommies info is the identity fraud, but as I said this is a separate issue and a moot argument.

Your already giving this basic information out on a near daily basis, so again, privacy arguments are moot and the only freedom this infringes on is the freedom of children who aren't allowed to view this content in the first place.

You people are arguing this still from a child's perspective and not that of a rational thinking functioning adult. An adult is not going to whine about giving away information he/she already gives away. A kid will whine about not having easy access to something anymore.

Originally posted by sirnex
Your already giving this basic information out on a near daily basis, so again, privacy arguments are moot and the only freedom this infringes on is the freedom of children who aren't allowed to view this content in the first place.

Speak for yourself. Some of us are more responsible with sensitive information, as we have a bit more concern for privacy than others. It's not out of guilt, it's out of personal responsibility (via freedom) and security. Two things that people have died for over the years.

The more you continue to call people you disagree with "children," the more you expose yourself as being without any true substance. Perhaps you should take a deep breath and come back to the discussion when you have calmed down a bit. We're not here to bite.

Originally posted by sirnex
No where did I mention viewing nudies was upgraded to identity fraud.

Why do you always think it's about what 'you' say?
Sure an opinion is great but just because 'you' say something doesn't make it so

I was referring to the gov/beauracrats/legislators.
THEY are the ones that want to criminalise everything that doesn't suit them.
THEY are the ones that want to find some way of labelling everyone 'terrorists' or 'criminals'.
I just wish they'd change the record..it's getting old.

BTW..A word of advice.. constantly calling people kids,whiners,ignorant,idiotic etc on here is a guaranteed way NOT to receive credit for your 'thoughts' on anything whatsoever.

reply to post by scientist


You must be kidding, your very basic information; name, age, place of residence are not sensitive information and never has been. It is public domain information that is freely and easily obtainable by anyone. For $30 your neighbor can get all sorts of public domain information about you regarding quiet a lot of aspects of your life. The name and age aspect of the verification system is a MOOT argument. The minute you give one institution that information is the minute you can no longer argue that information as a privacy issue without being labeled a damn hypocrite. Your whining about something you already do. Does that not strike you as slightly childish?

reply to post by AGENT_T


Ah, so setting up an age verification system to keep kids from having easy access to content they shouldn't have access to is just the governments way of criminalizing those kids from stealing information to make that access available to them again?

Get real, the government has better things to do than this and if this is what you think the government is for then you have a lot to learn bud. Christ, that whole statement sounds like it comes from a kid and yet you don't want me to label you as kids. Use big people arguments then ffs. Stop whining about something that there is nothing to whine about and you won't get called a kid when your acting like a kid.

This isn't about giving information that you ALREADY give out and is ALREADY freely and easily obtainable, this verification system is about keeping kids out of content they are already not allowed to view. This system is to make it harder for them to circumvent. If the parents feel the content is appropriate for the child then they can override the verification by entering in their own freely available public domain information and let the kids view it. That effectively throws out the government parenting argument.

You people are arguing against something there is nothing to argue against and using child like logic to argue your arguments. The only people who should be getting hot and bothered are the kids who normally gain access to certain content and now can't because IT IS NOT SUITABLE CONTENT FOR THEIR AGE. That is the damn issue already.

Originally posted by sirnex
Get real, the government has better things to do than this and if this is what you think the government is for then you have a lot to learn bud.

2 and 1/2 words for you:

non-violent drug offenders.

better yet, here are a few more:

illegal wire tapping

[edit on 1-9-2008 by scientist]

Originally posted by sirnex Stop whining about something that there is nothing to whine about and you won't get called a kid when your acting like a kid.

Ok since you're SO keen on obeying the rules that are set out.
THIS WEBSITE has rules about trolling and name-calling.

I have given you a valid reason why people wouldn't want to give proof of their ID over a website.

Since ALL you want to concentrate on is the name-calling and insults then I deem you a pointless troll and refuse to take part in any intelligent conversation since you appear to deliberately disregard or 'misunderstand' everything said.

I hope you have many,many years fun of conversing with yourself since that's all you appear to want to listen to.

Just remember the T&C whilst you're doing it.

Sheesh,some people.

Originally posted by scientist
Even if you did use someone else's info, the info would have to be accurate. That means you would have to know their first and last name with correct spelling, current address and exact date of birth.

So, if this is fake, it puts the other person at risk. And, if it's real, and a kid uses his uncle's information, then this database check isn't serving it's purpose at all. The kid still gained access to the stuff this DB check was supposed to prevent. Name, address, and birthdate of a relative aren't hard for a kid to discover.

reply to post by sirnex

put down the public domain information argument and step away.

the ease at which the system can be by-passed using minor identity theft suggests that it is not a serious attempt at internet security, it is actually no more secure than clicking a button that says "i am 21". f it is not a serious attempt at security, it must be something else.

there are two possibilities i can think of. the first is that it is a spin campaign to make it look to the ignorant like the government actually give a crap weather or not little timmy sees boobs or blood. given the lack of announcements regarding the launch of this technology, i doubt it's spin.

the the other possible use is as an intelligence/profiling tool. if the website is requesting a government database verify your age so that you can view something in particular, the database will likely now know you are viewing a particular piece of video or visiting a particular website. this can then be added to the database attached to your name in order to compile a profile of your particular habits or interests.

given the way this type of circumstantial evidence was released after the death of the alleged anthrax scientist lately, it gives me cause for concern.

the question i always ask myself in this situation is, do i trust the present government, and all future possible governments, with the ability to scrutinise my present and past to this level of detail.

the answer for me is obvious.


[edit on 1-9-2008 by pieman]

Originally posted by GrayFoxThe kid still gained access to the stuff this DB check was supposed to prevent. Name, address, and birthdate of a relative aren't hard for a kid to discover.

EXACTLY..Thank you for some intelligence here..

All that happens is then the Kid is now prosecutable under ID fraud instead of a slap off his parents over some naughty pics.
Instant criminal.

Please explain it to some people here.

MAJOR EDIT..

ALSO.. If said kid then visits illegal sites registered under his uncle's ID..then Uncle gets hauled away falsely..

Yayyy.. Then you get TWO criminals for the price of one..

It's NOT an infallible system.. Just pure beauracracy.

[edit on 1-9-2008 by AGENT_T]

reply to post by scientist


The argument is fruitless in context of an valid argument against an age verification system meant to make it harder for KIDS to do something they aren't allowed to do.

Oh christ... you people can not seriously think the government is out to get you all. Get a life. I'm out of this discussion and at least I know there is one other person in this discussion who has a damn working head on her shoulders.

No one is out to get you or make everything you do a criminal offense. I'm sorry if something happened that gave you some sick twisted view of how things work, but like I've said before, once you get a little bit older and have kids of your own, you'll understand why mommy and daddy ripped your door right off the hinges and grounded you for the summer.

reply to post by sirnex


yeah, my sons a teenager, see, your assumptions are often wrong, maybe your assumption that the government is a fluffy bunny is as fact based as your opinion that we're all children.

reply to post by pieman


This is WHY we need more sites like this to question things.. Every once in a while you get people swallowing hook line and sinker,EVERYTHING they're fed.

I remember back in the good old days before the net..Something I'd mentioned already in this thread and a pointer that I'm no 'kid' too.

Guess I should be thankful for the compliment.
(..And I still don't have a door on my bedroom.. but that was due to a stuffed toy and a can of squirty cream )

What is a government issued id?
I can always use someone else's.
Sounds phony to me.
Illuminati BS.

Do the FBI way with fingerprints will make faking a little harder
unless the hardware and software is cracked.

Calls directed to a persons DNA by cell phone is another Illuminati myth.

Illuminati mind games just set up the unstable.
No one can make positive id except God the creator.
He is also our only protector from the Illuminati.

ED:
Microsoft Internet Explorer 8 to Include 'Porn Mode'
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Microsoft to the rescue.
See note on google-analytics.com/urchin.js




[edit on 9/1/2008 by TeslaandLyne]

[edit on 9/1/2008 by TeslaandLyne]