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Using Government databases to verify age on regular websites *warning*

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posted on Aug, 30 2008 @ 09:51 PM
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I just spotted a very scary trend, that appears to already be implemented on popular sites. In anticipation for a new movie coming to DVD, "The Foot Fist Way" (trailer below rant), I noticed 2 links on the website (www.thefootfistway.com...).

"General" and "Restricted"

Normally when you click on "Restricted" (adult) you have to enter a name, and a birthdate. Or maybe something a little more novel, but non-intrusive.

When I tried putting in fake info the first time, "asdfg, etc." it rejected me. So I actually put in "John Smith, Jan 20, 1971 - 90210" since that's certainly all valid. Still no go. Then I noticed the fine print:



It is actually checking valid information against your government-issued id (in other words, this commercial site, about a comedy dvd, is actually connecting to a centralized government database, to verify your identify. To watch... a movie trailer...)

This probably has nothing to do with the site designers, or the company - and everything to do with a scary trend that's been developing, and I'm afraid is unavoidable. Pretty soon, every single click will be registered to our actual identities, from stupid kitten videos on youtube, to obscure google searches sone at 3 a.m. with one eye half open.

As with all other laws, those in charge of the laws regarding technology in the US, are those with the least amount of knowledge in the area. Need I mention the "internet is a series of tubes" speech? This is the man that authored the Broadband Deployment Act of 2006.

Foot Fist Way trailer (colorful language):


"Series of Tubes" Ted Stevens:



[edit on 30-8-2008 by scientist]




posted on Aug, 30 2008 @ 09:55 PM
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WOW, I was just thinking about something just like this... GOV must be reading my mind
I was thinking about an internet rating system that can be used to collect user's information and keep young people and average Joe's away from sites like ATS.








[edit on 30-8-2008 by ddacunha]



posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 10:03 AM
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I don't see the problem with the technology here really. Young kids shouldn't be clicking around into adult websites at all period. I wouldn't want my children at least to easily enter false information to view things that are too mature for they're developing minds. Anything that can protect them from the underbelly of society is great! It is actually sad how easy it is for kids these days to get a hold of information they shouldn't have access too due to its mature content.



posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 10:10 AM
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Ever hear of a lock on the door? Why should parents rely on the government to babysit their kids? This type of reliance is exactly what they wish to foster.

Lock-up that TV and computer and make you kids go out and play, get some exercise or read a book. MONITOR what they are doing. Don't rely on those electronic babysitters.



posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 10:13 AM
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reply to post by sirnex
 


You have security settings on your computer to restrict what your kids can view online. It should not be up to the government to decide what or who is alowed to view a website.



posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 10:18 AM
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Originally posted by sirnex
I don't see the problem with the technology here really. Young kids shouldn't be clicking around into adult websites at all period. I wouldn't want my children at least to easily enter false information to view things that are too mature for they're developing minds.


After reading that, consider how effective the method was, seeing how I could just embed the same trailer directly from youtube?

So what has happened in effect, is that you gave up some of your privacy, and security (this is NOT a secure connection that you are sending the info over, just regular unprotected http) for what you believed to be safety for your kids.

Guess what, not only were your kids NOT protected (ironically, I was still able to embed the video via youtube, as opposed to the official site) but you just compromised the privacy and security of yourself, and by proxy your children - and ultimately, compromising your safety as well, since you are further propagating and accepting such methods of control, without seeing any cause for alarm.



posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 10:34 AM
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reply to post by scientist
 


Right, the trailer you embeded came from another website, one that doesn't use that same feature. Whats your point?

@Death & @crimvelvet:

Your right, it shouldn't have to be up to the government, but on the other side of the coin, parents these days DON'T do what they are supposed too. Hell, my grandfather used to have me look up porn for him when I was a kid because he didn't know how to even turn the computer on. So obviously relying on parents/adults to do a proper job is not good enough.

This line of thinking could even be applied to a multitude of things that the government does that technically we as adults should be able to handle ourselves as adults. The fact of the matter is that even as an adult, we still don't do the the things we should be doing. This is why we have all sorts of checks and balances put in place.

This really doesn't hurt your privacy at all anyways. The ISPs already have logs of your history, your computer maintains logs, and your already in a government database. Where's the privacy being infringed upon by having your age validated against a database for an adult themed website that is already logged internally and remotely?

Either way you look at it, who really cares anyways? Unless your doing something illegal, then it doesn't really affect you. Unless your a minor whining about not being allowed to view content not suited for your age bracket.



posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 11:42 AM
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Originally posted by sirnex
reply to post by scientist
 


Right, the trailer you embeded came from another website, one that doesn't use that same feature. Whats your point?


Are you purposefully being dense? My point is, you are more than willing to give up your privacy and security, while knowing that is is completely fruitless. What part of this is not crystal clear to you?



who really cares anyways? Unless your doing something illegal, then it doesn't really affect you.


I find that just as offensive, and one of the ROOT causes for the loss of freedoms today. Mentalities like this are what hurts everyone. Please stop it right now, if not for yourself, do it for your children.



posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 05:38 PM
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reply to post by scientist
 





Are you purposefully being dense? My point is, you are more than willing to give up your privacy and security, while knowing that is is completely fruitless. What part of this is not crystal clear to you?


What privacy and security am I giving up specifically? We have a pre-existing database with my name and age which is pretty much public information anyways and a website that uses that public information to verify that I am of the proper age to view adult themed content. Wow, must be pretty evil to verify that you are old enough to view content suited for your age.

The fact that you obtained the trailer from an outside source that doesn't use this verification process is a moot point. With any new web technologies being rolled out, not everyone is going to jump right on it, but as it grows in popularity due to how well it works, then more and more sites will begin making use of the technology.




I find that just as offensive, and one of the ROOT causes for the loss of freedoms today. Mentalities like this are what hurts everyone. Please stop it right now, if not for yourself, do it for your children.


Please, now you the one being dense. You have a limited set amount of freedom as per dictated by being a member of any society. There are "freedoms" that you are allowed to enjoy and other "freedoms" that you are not allowed to enjoy. You are not free to kill another member of society nor should a child be free to enter arbitrary information into a website to look at a pair of breasts for his own personal enjoyment.

The only people this affects are those who wish to do the things they shouldn't be doing. The murderers, thieves, and drug abusers of the world probably don't enjoy the laws against those particular activities anymore than the kids trying to view content not suited for their age. Fact of the matter is, you can't rely on trust alone that an individual won't do the things they should be doing.

We have these laws and checks and balances only because of the people themselves. Sure it might appear on the surface to take away from you, but in reality it doesn't unless you fall under that gray line where you want to partake in the things your not intended to partake in. If you feel that is stripping your freedom, then I'm afraid your the problem with society and not myself.

You can't have certain freedoms and not other types of freedoms and call yourself free. If you are a member of any society with laws and rules put in place, then you are never really free to begin with. So quit your damn whining and grow up.



posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 05:55 PM
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I see nothing that shows evidence a "database" is being accessed. If a USGOV database was being checked, the false information would have not worked.

However, the warning worked as they designed it!!!!



posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 06:10 PM
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I feel that this could be a hoax to get personal information.

BTW Parent are responsible for what their children watch on the internet that is why they are parents.



posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 10:42 PM
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Originally posted by sirnex
I don't see the problem with the technology here really. Young kids shouldn't be clicking around into adult websites at all period.


Yes but, do you really want the state to take that responsibility away from you?
For myself, I would rather my wife and I kept that responsibility.
Responsibility and independence are key to freedom.



posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 11:04 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
I feel that this could be a hoax to get personal information.


I'm agreeing with this. I wouldn't trust it. Besides, what's stopping someone from using another person's information? There's not really anything stopping that, is there? So what's the point?



posted on Sep, 1 2008 @ 03:15 AM
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Originally posted by sirnex
What privacy and security am I giving up specifically?


You are providing accurate, government information (name, DOB and zipcode). These are all key ingredients to an identity theft.



We have a pre-existing database with my name and age which is pretty much public information anyways and a website that uses that public information to verify that I am of the proper age to view adult themed content. Wow, must be pretty evil to verify that you are old enough to view content suited for your age.


I really don't have much else to say. If you can't see the problem with supplying valid, sensitive information over an insecure connection, I doubt any further explanation will allow that to sink in any more.



You have a limited set amount of freedom as per dictated by being a member of any society. There are "freedoms" that you are allowed to enjoy and other "freedoms" that you are not allowed to enjoy. You are not free to kill another member of society nor should a child be free to enter arbitrary information into a website to look at a pair of breasts for his own personal enjoyment.


Thank you for providing that example - murder vs nudity. In fact, the trailer had bad language, that's all. The exaggerated example you have provided, yet again paints yourself as being detached from reality. To compare murder with looking at nudity, makes your point moot. Just because you are okay with submitting your privacy and freedoms to keep your kids safe (and by safe, I really mean vulnerable to the state), does not mean those of us without kids, or those of us that can handle raising our own children without the state doing it for us need you to act or speak on our behalf.



The only people this affects are those who wish to do the things they shouldn't be doing. The murderers, thieves, and drug abusers of the world probably don't enjoy the laws against those particular activities anymore than the kids trying to view content not suited for their age.


Another great example of your distorted perspective. First, we were talking about gaining access to an entertainment-only website, to watch a movie trailer. Now all of a sudden, we (or rather you) are talking about tieves, murders and drug abusers. I am starting to sense a pattern here.

Ironically, I am worried about losing freedoms, a valid concern given that people like you are so eager to give those freedoms up for me. Meanwhile, you are sitting there paranoid about murderers, thieves and drugs - which was never the issue in the first place.
Oh, the irony.



If you feel that is stripping your freedom, then I'm afraid your the problem with society and not myself.


so just for the record, you do not consider yourself part of society? Society is a collection of people. Typically, the weakest link in the chain is what compromises the security and freedoms of a society. You are that weak link in the chain I'm sad to say.



You can't have certain freedoms and not other types of freedoms and call yourself free. If you are a member of any society with laws and rules put in place, then you are never really free to begin with. So quit your damn whining and grow up.


Just because you have given up, and resigned yourself to a defeatist attitude, eager to give up freedom for security at every turn, again, does not mean you represent anyone other than your own, insecure self. The fact you threw the "whining" bit in at the end was not surprising, and only shows your true colors even more.

Please people, DENY IGNORANCE!


Originally posted by habu71
I see nothing that shows evidence a "database" is being accessed. If a USGOV database was being checked, the false information would have not worked.

However, the warning worked as they designed it!!!!


But false info does NOT work. If it's actually checking valid info, it is checking against a database. There is no other way for this to work - it uses a database. If the info is being checked against your valid, current address on your ID, then it's in fact a government database.


Originally posted by GrayFox

Originally posted by marg6043
I feel that this could be a hoax to get personal information.


I'm agreeing with this. I wouldn't trust it. Besides, what's stopping someone from using another person's information? There's not really anything stopping that, is there? So what's the point?


Even if you did use someone else's info, the info would have to be accurate. That means you would have to know their first and last name with correct spelling, current address and exact date of birth.

Identity - theft wise, once you get those ingredients, it's not much more needed before you can bake a whole cake!


[edit on 1-9-2008 by scientist]



posted on Sep, 1 2008 @ 05:48 AM
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reply to post by sirnex
 


Unless your doing something illegal, then it doesn't really affect you.

Is this a joke, or are you deliberately trying to provoke people?

That line has been used so many times in history by tyrants and despots to justify their repressive laws and behaviour, it has become a cliche. It is usually stated in this form:

If you have done nothing wrong you have nothing to fear

It's hysterical to see someone spouting it on ATS. I mean, you are joking, right? You don't have a swastika armband stashed in the back of your wardrobe or anything like that?



posted on Sep, 1 2008 @ 06:15 AM
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reply to post by scientist
 





You are providing accurate, government information (name, DOB and zipcode). These are all key ingredients to an identity theft.


This is all public domain information and information you freely give away to other sources without any thought. In fact, you can't even apply for a job without giving away this accurate information. So again, where is the privacy issue?




I really don't have much else to say. If you can't see the problem with supplying valid, sensitive information over an insecure connection, I doubt any further explanation will allow that to sink in any more.


I am sorry if you want to have your cake an eat it too, but that just isn't how it works and your being very hypocritical in the privacy issue. Yet you have the gall to sit here and whine to me about how wrong the common sense of it all is flawed? Shame on you people. Hatred of government laws shouldn't trump common sense.




Thank you for providing that example - murder vs nudity. In fact, the trailer had bad language, that's all. The exaggerated example you have provided, yet again paints yourself as being detached from reality. To compare murder with looking at nudity, makes your point moot. Just because you are okay with submitting your privacy and freedoms to keep your kids safe (and by safe, I really mean vulnerable to the state), does not mean those of us without kids, or those of us that can handle raising our own children without the state doing it for us need you to act or speak on our behalf.


Far from moot; Extreme example doesn't detach from lesser examples. Examples are just examples. As an adult, you are not allowed to do those extreme examples as a member of society, your freedoms from those examples were stripped from you. As a child you are not allowed to view adult themed content. Those freedoms are being stripped away from children having easy access to this type of material.

As I pointed out earlier, my grandfather used to have me look up porn for him as a kid, something I already did regardless being a teenage boy due to how easy it was. Something I wouldn't allow my kids to do now. Yet as the example points out, adult can't easily be trusted to follow the laws of society. So again, unless your a minor, this technology has no bearing on you.




Another great example of your distorted perspective. First, we were talking about gaining access to an entertainment-only website, to watch a movie trailer. Now all of a sudden, we (or rather you) are talking about tieves, murders and drug abusers. I am starting to sense a pattern here.


Reading comprehension my friend. I am not talking about those specific things. Those things are being used as examples to point out the moot point of your twisted view of freedom. You can't have your cake and eat it to without being called a hypocrite.




Ironically, I am worried about losing freedoms, a valid concern given that people like you are so eager to give those freedoms up for me. Meanwhile, you are sitting there paranoid about murderers, thieves and drugs - which was never the issue in the first place. Oh, the irony.


You are not giving up your freedom to view adult content under this system if you are an adult. I still fail to see the underlying issue here and why your whining about it like a little girl. Are you a minor?




so just for the record, you do not consider yourself part of society? Society is a collection of people. Typically, the weakest link in the chain is what compromises the security and freedoms of a society. You are that weak link in the chain I'm sad to say.


The reason freedoms get stripped is because people do stupid things that get laws written up to prevent more people from doing those stupid things which makes it appear that more freedom is being taken away.



posted on Sep, 1 2008 @ 06:21 AM
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reply to post by scientist
 





Just because you have given up, and resigned yourself to a defeatist attitude, eager to give up freedom for security at every turn, again, does not mean you represent anyone other than your own, insecure self. The fact you threw the "whining" bit in at the end was not surprising, and only shows your true colors even more.


Again, this is information I freely give away to my utility companies and to jobs I apply to. This information is freely available, so it is not private. You are still whining like a little girl though.




But false info does NOT work. If it's actually checking valid info, it is checking against a database. There is no other way for this to work - it uses a database. If the info is being checked against your valid, current address on your ID, then it's in fact a government database.


Which is GOOD because right now a minor can enter arbitrary false information to gain access to content they shouldn't have access too. If there is a system of verification that can validate information then that is even better and more effective at keeping kids from viewing adult content in any form.




Even if you did use someone else's info, the info would have to be accurate. That means you would have to know their first and last name with correct spelling, current address and exact date of birth.


Yep, taking someone else's identity to gain illegal access to an adult themed website as a minor would be rather easy. Now you have the little problem of that identity being tied to your IP address. Smart move right? This is another reason why it would be effective against CHILDREN. They don't think. Like you...



posted on Sep, 1 2008 @ 07:27 AM
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Originally posted by sirnex
I still fail to see the underlying issue here and why your whining about it like a little girl. Are you a minor?


I am now choosing to deny your ignorant comments, as per the ATS policy of denying ignorance. If you feel that name-calling is the best argument at your disposal, and rehashing the "hypocrite" factor (fine, I'm a hypocrite, and so are you.. so what?) than I really have no incentive to put any more effort into your trolling.

It's a shame you fail to see the issue, and even more of a shame if you have kids, as you are more than likely further propagating this flawed and dangerous mentality.



[edit on 1-9-2008 by scientist]



posted on Sep, 1 2008 @ 07:37 AM
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reply to post by scientist
 


Your stance on the "issue" is just so laughable. There is no issue as this is information you not only freely give away for various functions of society, but also information that you have no choice but to give away for various functions of society. The privacy issue is MOOT in this context. Don't even get started on the insult issue, your not guilt free on this aspect yourself, or should I quote it?

Again, this verification technology doesn't strip your freedom to view the content granted you are of age to view the content. If your a child, then of course your not free to view adult content. It is detrimental to your developing mind, which is why us as adults are trying to find ways to keep you kids from seeing no no material.

Regardless of the verification process, a parent who deems it ok for their child to view this material protected by the verification system can still enter in their valid material, thereby making the freedom aspect again a MOOT point. The governments so called "parenting" was effectively taken away from the government and put back into the hands of the parent who allowed the child to view the content.

Again, this only affects MINORS, not adults. There is no freedom issue and no privacy issue due to the nature of the information being given as being public domain information. I can understand a child not getting this concept, but once you grow up and have children yourself, you'll understand why there is nothing wrong here. Just give it time little guy.



posted on Sep, 1 2008 @ 07:52 AM
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It is about time something was done to stop kids getting at adult material on the internet, it is too easy for them to just put in false information and then get access to all kinds of sick depraved rubbish, and I'm not talking about porn either, I'm open minded about anything, what others do in private is none of my business.

All i have heard for the past couple of years are complaints about ID cards, my privacy being taken away because of CCTV cameras etc.

Truth is i don't care about that stuff, i have nothing to hide, if i want to protest i will, what difference does it make if it is recorded?

If they want to set up a system, that prevents kids from accessing adult material then I'm all for it, I don't want my kids watching some jackass acting like an idiot, I don't want my kids to see someone else's idea of fun with Animals, and i definitely don't want my kids watching some poor sod being beheaded by a bunch of fanatical lunatics.

I don't get it sometimes, people want freedom, and society to go back the way it is, they want criminals off the streets, and want terrorists stopped before they blow up their neighborhood.

But they don't want themselves being caught by a camera walking down the street, that tells me they have something they feel guilty about.

A lot of parents these days don't care what their kids are doing away from the home, thats why kids are stabbing kids, its why stupid stunts end up with a dead body, its why i was carjacked two years ago by kids aged 10-14.

If you don't wish to be filmed , then get your kids in at a decent time, and make sure you know where they are, otherwise one day it is you who will get the knock on the door, from the police who have come to tell you, your kid just died, copying something they had no right in seeing in the first place.

One last thing, parents who say, i want my child to have freedom, so i treat them like an adult, and have no problems, to treat a child like an adult, you first have to act like one yourself..



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