Disaster in Rachel, NV

reply to post by sd7000


Very little of a spook nature happens over Rachel. The base isn't stupid. Weapons School and Red Flag buzz Rachel, but the base is more discrete. Anything they show during the day is something that they don't care that you see. [In my opinion, they may fly stuff that they want you to see as a way to announce to the world certain projects. For instance, the base made no attempt to hike the Sukoi craft they were testing.]

Nellis AFB probably cares more about development in the area than Groom Lake. I was told (but can't verify) that they tried to keep cell service out of Rachel since they didn't want the press to be alerted about crashes before they took care of business. As it stands now, the cell site in Rachel is designed not to have any range. Generally in the boonies, they locate the cell sites high to get more range since channel reuse is not an issue.

It turned out that news and photos of the recent F15 crash was sent via satellite internet.

reply to post by gariac


Gariac, while in the a le inn last time, Connie received a phone call on her cell. I asked what cell phone service on earth got reception here. She said that Verizon still has some old analog tower that give phone reception.

Anywho, I doubt Groom Lake cares too, but the citizens of Rachel sure do.

reply to post by bknapple32


Yes, Verizon analog. In most of the country, analog was history from Feb of this year. But in the boonies, there is no issue regarding refarming the band for public service use.

Most likely the cell sites will go CDMA. There is a nuance regarding timing that requires GSM sites to be closer together than CDMA.

I know there is a lot of analog celluar in central Nevada. When I search for federal frequencies on my double conversion scanner, the annoying analog data channels show up as images, as well as the occasional boring phone call.

Alamo has CDMA. When I was a Verizon customer, I could use it to surf the net. Tonopah CDMA wouldn't allow data roaming. Most of route 95 has GSM, which I could use via T-mobile.

When I was at the Warm Springs repeater site, the old TV repeater shack owned by Falini was sold to Church (churchill) cellular. I believe it was CDMA.

Since you are a regular visitor to the area, I'd suggest getting a SPOT.

spot
I wouldn't pay for the tracking since it work poorly. But to let people know ehere you are camped, the SPOT works well.

Thanks gariac, I'll look into getting that. Much appreciated.

I don't know if this has been mentioned already but wont a prison create jobs, jobs that will create housing and economy in the local area and therefore increase the population of the town?

As for the idea of safety.
With dez all around theres only one place where escapee can go and the town will hopefully have a good reaction force to welcome the jail breaker once they receive the call.

Las Vegas Sun article on the prison

Gee, it appears the locals aren't too happy about the new prison.

Originally posted by dalek
I don't know if this has been mentioned already but wont a prison create jobs, jobs that will create housing and economy in the local area and therefore increase the population of the town?

As for the idea of safety.
With dez all around theres only one place where escapee can go and the town will hopefully have a good reaction force to welcome the jail breaker once they receive the call.

i'll just refer you to gariacs post above, and my link in the OP. what new jobs? this town has a population of 65. All self sustaining and been doing so for a decade now.

reply to post by bknapple32


There may be more to this than is on the surface. For instance, Clark County stole a great deal of water rights from Lincoln County thanks to Jim Totally Corrupt Gibbons. Now you can argue that sending the water south produces more money for the state then growing alfalfa in the desert. However, if the prison is built in Rachel, then it will need water, and that is water that Clark County can't steal.

Also note, the county will get money for building permits. In the dark ages, permit money just covered the cost of inspecting the construction. Today, permit money is revenue.

I will be posting an update to the OP of what happened at the planning commission meeting to approve this or not. A sad say for Rachel, but not the end of the road. More coming soon.

Ok I cant edit my OP but heres the update...

Joerg's synopsis

The end of Rachel as we know it has been sealed today. Greed and ignorance once again triumphed over common sense. The Rachel prison was approved by the Lincoln County planning commission today. The developer, Jim Toreson, and his mini-me, county planning director Clint Wertz, who have both publicly declared that they do not care about the people of Rachel, did not even have to try very hard. The prospect of $1M in tax revenue for the county was all the comission heard. Not the pleas of 15 concerned residents of Rachel, not the warnings that the county is taken for a ride by an unscrupulous developer, not the concerns voiced by a representative of Nellis AFB, not even the safety concerns of their own Sheriff. Money rules, and so this insanity will become a reality. Over the next 18 months, a 100-acre, 1500-inmate medium security prison will be built only 4 miles from Rachel. And those of you who like to visit the area because of its dark night skies, the safe and unspoiled environment, the remote-ness, the friendly people around here or for whatever other reasen, might as well start looking for new places to visit. That is, if this madness is not stopped. We, the residents of Rachel, who settled here looking forward to retire in a safe and unspoiled environment, will not give up without a fight. We will appeal today's decision, hoping that eventually resaon will win.

Well, I am not an expert in these things, but it is my understanding that yesterday's vote of the Planning Commission was the final ok for Toreson. The Commission heard the recommendation of Planning Director Clint Wertz for approval with minor conditions, and accepted it in an open vote with 4 against 2. One member of the commission abstained, because her husband works for Mr. Toreson. We can now appeal the decision, but in the meantime Mr. Toreson is free to get his project started. And he left no doubt that he does not intend to waste any time. As I said in another reply in this thread, the sheriff is not really against the prison. I am sorry if I created the wrong impression. He simply presented the Commission with thuthful answers to their questions. A lot of those answers just were not very favorable for the prison. Such as the need for two resident sheriffs deputies in Rachel if this goes through, the "qualification" for a job as private prison guard (a GED, not more!) and the fact that out of three current murder investigations in Ely, two of them are in the prison there.

Really not much. None of the members of the County Planning Commission knew much about private prisons, and at the time the conditions were discussed the public was not allowed to speak to correct some of the blatant lies Toreson presented to them. Very conveniently, Toresons attorney was the last one to speak, and he basically told the commission that they would be sued if they denied the request, but that they really could not be held liable later if they approved it and it failed. Don't underestimate Toreson. This is his last hurrah, and he is going all in. The conditions were basically to give him 18 months, and to reduce the number of inmates to 1500, which is still on the high end of existing prisons. The representative from Nellis requested a condition to be put in that they can not complain about noise etc. from the war games later, and that they must take adequate measures to noise-proof the facility.

Sad really. Hopefully the appeal works. More to come, and I'll update as I get new info from dreamlandresort.com or anyone in rachel.

If he has 18 months, I suspect the project won't happen. There are serious logistics problems to building in the middle of nowhere. If you look at Base Camp as an example, their housing is made up of double wides. Now if they could get anyone to stick-build a house, they probably would since that CIA base isn't going anywhere, but the construction people are not to be found locally.

I was at the Warm Springs repeater site a few months ago when electricians were wiring up the shacks. They were all from Vegas and hated the trip to Warm Springs. And their "exposure" to the area was a total of 3 days.

Now unless the prison will be a collection of double wides, I just don't see the project taking off because it is not cost effective. Seriously, you can't even buy a bag of nails in the closest town (Alamo). Tonopah has a small hardware store, but it could not handle the project. So the prison will have to be built by Vegas labor that will charge an arm and a leg to do the job.

Also note that rezoning the property is not the same as getting a building permit. I would have to see the paperwork to determine if there are additional public meetings required to get the building permit. There are all sorts of ways to delay a project or make it more expensive (and thus fail) if there is additional public input.

reply to post by gariac


All logistically sound gariac. I had the same thoughts when I heard the 18 month timeline. And that could be why the commission gave the approval. Only because they knew that this probably wouldnt happen.

Yea the only reason to drive an hour and a half to work in the desert would only be for Area 51.

Is the newest housing development off the 93 on the way to Groom lake the same warm springs development you speak off? If thats the case, yea the most Ive seen happen is a esthetically pleasing entrance to nowhere, and a bunch of imported palm trees all waiting for a home.

reply to post by bknapple32


The development off of 93 is Coyote Springs.
highly deceptive Coyote Springs website
I wish them luck. Personally, the only way that that dog will hunt is to build an airstrip and peddle the property to the personal aircraft crowd.

The Warm Springs repeater site is located at
N38.19195 W116.41809
To get to it, enter at
N38.17131 W116.42263
The road is steep and there is snow on parts of it well into spring. I suggest a 4WD vehicle. I've camped at the site since it has a view of the Nellis Range Airspace and direct views of the TTR and Base Camp. Assuming you use a 4WD, you can also camp on a nearby peak without all that radio gear if that stuff bugs you. Start at
N 38.197510 W116.427247
This will require low range,

If you Google Earth the location, you can see why the electricians were not exactly happy working there. I assume for a location that remote they are on the clock from the moment they leave Vegas since travel time is maybe 3 hours.

More news coming from the las vegas sun.


las vegas sun article

The residents of Rachel lost the first round in their fight to keep a private prison out of their community of fewer than 100 people. Now, they might not be able to afford to fight the second round. Little A'Le'Inn owner Connie West sits outside her bar, restaurant and gift shop recently in Rachel, where residents have until Monday to come up with the money to appeal the Planning Commission's decision on a private prison. Leila Navidi Little A'Le'Inn owner Connie West sits outside her bar, restaurant and gift shop recently in Rachel, where residents have until Monday to come up with the money to appeal the Planning Commission's decision on a private prison. Sun Topics * Area 51 Sun Archives * Editorial: A terrible idea (9-14-2008) * The home they love, for now (9-7-2008) Beyond the Sun * Nevada Department of Corrections The Lincoln County Planning Commission has approved a permit for a prison near the town that has earned pop culture cachet for claims of alien sightings and its proximity to Area 51, the government testing facility long shrouded in secrecy.

Pahrump residents have been battling their private prison as well.

pahrump valley times

Getting back to the Rachel prison, I wonder if that new Lincoln Estates sign is fireproof....

This will never happen and I can't figure out why all the people here and on dreamlandresort.com who claim they live in Rachel (when they still live and work in Vegas) are still acting like their world is going to end. The folks here in town should be able to figure it out but I think it's the only thing they've had to complain about in a long time and it's getting them some publicitiy and well ... it's Rachel. The one limiting factor that will kill this idea just like it killed Lincoln Estates is lack of infrastucture. The power line that carries power to Rachel is at it's peak and can't handle any more. If you buy a lot in town that doesn't have power you can't get any and have to make it yourself ... it's a Co-OP. The cost of restringing the existing line or running a new high power line is more than anyone could afford. The average price of high tension line for Nevada in 2006 was $1.9 million dollars per mile (per MILE!!) ... who's going to pay that to get more power to the not even-close-to-thriving metropolis of Rachel? Since hayfields require not only electrical power that isn't available the reason he'll never put in center pivot irrigation for alfalfa is he doesn't own the water rights to go with his land. He will also never put in a Solar Field to generate power. Why you ask; the same reason he can't get electricity ... no wires to bring power in so he can't sell power he makes because he has no way to export it. As for Mr Torgeson this idea is only slightly dumber than the fact he bought land in Rachel. I hate to say it but Glen Campbell is right ... don't get your UFO watchin' panties in a knot, this will never happen in Rachel.

reply to post by sensfan
would you be so kind and provide a link to support your statement of a shortage of prisons in the united states since: we already have 8,700 prisons and jails in the us www.uaff.us...

and here is an extensive and only partial list if you would like to examine: www.uaff.us...

The prison industry complex is one of the fastest-growing industries in the United States and its investors are on Wall Street. “This multimillion-dollar industry has its own trade exhibitions, conventions, websites, and mail-order/Internet catalogs. It also has direct advertising campaigns, architecture companies, construction companies, investment houses on Wall Street, plumbing supply companies, food supply companies, armed security, and padded cells in a large variety of colors.”

www.infowars.com...

not to mention

Contract awarded to Halliburton subsidiary KBR. ARLINGTON, Va.–(BUSINESS WIRE)–Jan. 24, 2006–KBR announced today that the Department of Homeland Security’s (DHS) U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) component has awarded KBR an Indefinite Delivery/Indefinite Quantity (IDIQ) contingency contract to support ICE facilities in the event of an emergency. KBR is the engineering and construction subsidiary of Halliburton (NYSE:HAL). With a maximum total value of $385 million over a five-year term, consisting of a one-year based period and four one-year options, the competitively awarded contract will be executed by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, Fort Worth District. KBR held the previous ICE contract from 2000 through 2005.

www.gnn.tv...

shortage????????????? we have way too many prison and detention centers as it is.

we are becoming exactly like north korea! with our prisons currently being privatized and approaching manufacturing corporations with: want an employee who will be at work and on time, no payroll taxes, no insurance, low wages, no sick leave, no vacations....................



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[edit on 25-9-2008 by musselwhite]

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
This will never happen and I can't figure out why all the people here and on dreamlandresort.com who claim they live in Rachel (when they still live and work in Vegas) are still acting like their world is going to end. The folks here in town should be able to figure it out but I think it's the only thing they've had to complain about in a long time and it's getting them some publicitiy and well ... it's Rachel. The one limiting factor that will kill this idea just like it killed Lincoln Estates is lack of infrastucture. The power line that carries power to Rachel is at it's peak and can't handle any more. If you buy a lot in town that doesn't have power you can't get any and have to make it yourself ... it's a Co-OP. The cost of restringing the existing line or running a new high power line is more than anyone could afford. The average price of high tension line for Nevada in 2006 was $1.9 million dollars per mile (per MILE!!) ... who's going to pay that to get more power to the not even-close-to-thriving metropolis of Rachel? Since hayfields require not only electrical power that isn't available the reason he'll never put in center pivot irrigation for alfalfa is he doesn't own the water rights to go with his land. He will also never put in a Solar Field to generate power. Why you ask; the same reason he can't get electricity ... no wires to bring power in so he can't sell power he makes because he has no way to export it. As for Mr Torgeson this idea is only slightly dumber than the fact he bought land in Rachel. I hate to say it but Glen Campbell is right ... don't get your UFO watchin' panties in a knot, this will never happen in Rachel.

Mr Anonymous, please get an email address and join the 21st century... As for you assertion that the dreamlandresort creators are lying about living in Rachel, you have lost your anonymous mind. You lost all credibility after that.

Yea I hope it never happens, but they have a right to be scared. And why bring up Glenn Cambell again??? He has faded away in his futile attempt to give overpriced tours of the desert.


Mr Torgeson? NEver heard of him...

Perhaps you are referring to Mr Torrenson.

I tend to be pro-portable prisons. And before you jump me (not saying your going to jump me, but addressing your or anyones or my own concerns with the portable prison subject) let me explain why I feel this way. I'm no one to say. I dont' have some fancy governmental insider scoop-or military history. My records list me as a highschool drop out with horrible credit and a history of low wage working. Teen pregnancies. A fraud charge. The neighbor who won't or rarely puts out with the reputation of a 5 dollar ho. Interesting. An illegitamate medical record and multiple documentations. Unverified residences and travels. A school record that rolls out and a baptism record not in my faith-and a faith list not on record. But no proof! Not my problem. Life is fleeting. I still care though.

STUNNING Credentials aside-here's what I think.
The prisons are a GOOD STEP. They are for the activation. Not of putting all the free thinkers or conspiracy thinkers away. Much the opposite.

Remember how as a county we all got the news at about 9am ish on some common just like any other day that there were planes flying into our buildings-killing OUR people, the WORLDS people? (this is the conspiracy page, right?) from INDIVIDUALS who assumably effortlessly entered planes-with weapons, and the psychoticness and ill intent to do what they did?

The prisons are for not if, but WHEN that happens large scale. It is not a (as popularly propaganda-ed) matter of a small band of dummified terrorists entering the country a week prior with one target in site. Though dummies *can* be used.
That is what happened in THAT instance. And it's not a matter of a nuke. Maintaining the viability of the land is PARAMOUNT. Bridges can be rebuilt.
In the matter of an *activation*-the country has thought ahead to containment.

No. We might all need to fight-and be ready to kill.

Our security sucks. To people without a concience and a case of agoriporia backed by guns and an all demanding propagandaed twisting of god, our ego begs tempering.

I guess you'd have to be there. I know I wasn't in a skyscraper or an aeroplane or beneath a dam. I never am-and never will be. Run in run out. An understanding I grew up with.

I do however bathe in the public water system without a filter. I also smoke and consume from the grocery. Normal life goes on. I am grateful for the camps. *Somebody's* got a clue to how bad it really IS INTENDED to get. They just don't have proof. So they've been Lax. But hit at the Pentagon and everybody wakes the hell up to the reality of what is against them.

It's not enough, the camps, but it is a HUGE step.
The fact that anyone can walk into a work dispatch center and be in a food processing center the same day spreading a poison from their pocket into every chicken that rolls on by-and then disappearing to a new town-bothers me.
A padlock as the only security to a water supply access shed in the woods-bothers me.
The fact that no one really knows *anyone* they employ or let into their aeroplane or job site-reference call relays *can and do* happen-bothers me.

Cages set up to handle an activation in the event that a bunch of common folk tasked with a job to do by all mighty god, rise up-doesn't bother me!

Racism bothers me, though. Especially when it is against individual members of a community held socially hostage by individuals of their own.

It's perplexing, isn't it?

The cages aren't for us. That is my conspiracy theory. We also need to be building a stock pile of medical shelters/supplies.

The order is genocide and resettlement, slavery of survivors and insiders until rebuild, disposal afterwards. Do you mind that is how I heard it? I do. It means that people who practice Allahs love get put in danger because of people who practice Allahs hate.

reply to post by bknapple32


The poster is correct that the dreamlandresort webmaster does not live in Rachel, but does own property there. The same goes another regular on the site. They both live in Vegas. This isn't a big secret. They both talk about this on their forum.

Regarding the prison, most developers option the land, then try to develop it. As far as the law is concerned, the option is as good as owning the dirt. The fact that the developer is grasping for a project after buying the land clearly shows he doesn't have a clue. I really doubt this project will fly.

I have no reason to believe the land couldn't be used for alfalfa. That would preserve his water rights. Farming the land insures no protected creatures start to live there.

Rachel has two power companies, but I believe one just remarkets the other's power. They have a coop that most say is a rip.