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Anti Masons please read this!

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posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 06:15 PM
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Originally posted by Simplynoone
..isnt all that frat stuff supposed to be put behind you once you get out of college I have never heard of college kids continuing with the frat stuff after college ..


Actually, if you will look deeper into it, college fraternities modeled themselves after Freemasonry. The Masonic fraternity existed MANY years before there were Greek-Letter Fraternities/Sororities. My own college fraternity's ritual has a LOT of Masonic overtones. Hardly any surprise because several it's early members were also Masons.


(not saying your a child ..just that is seems a little childish to be into that at your age lol)


While that may be true, I have a young granddaughter and I sure don't mind being childish around her, to the extent of crawling around on the floor with her, playing with her toys with her, goo-gooing, etc. I don't think the "good book" would frown on that.




I believe that you believe that ...I am just not sure I agree ..the word says no other Gods before me ..avoid any appearances of evil ...(which you do not believe there is any evil in it so I will say to you ...I pray that if there is you will see it and not go with it ...and get out)


And get out I would if I even suspected there was evil in it. I've researched this for a LONG time and continually read about my Fraternity and keep up with what's going on. As far as the religion aspect and "other Gods" I've said it before. Freemasonry requires her members to believe there is a God, the Creator and Sustainer of all. That's it. Freemasonry offers no so-called "Plan of Salvation" nor does it claim to "Save one's soul" Religions DO this sort of thing. Therefore Freemasonry is not a religion, good, bad or otherwise.



I know you would and really and truly after talking to you now for a few days I would trust you at your word and listen to you if you did ....Mason or not ...I would trust you just because your posts shows who you are as an individual.
And what I see I do believe you are good inside and someone worth knowing as a friend ..


Why, thank you little Sister [blush]




posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 06:18 PM
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Originally posted by adrenochrome
otherwise, i wouldn't have gone down to the local lodge to inquire about joining 5 months ago! it's just that a few bad apples DO give it a bad name. i despise ANYONE who not only abuses power, but also uses it to deceive others.


I encourage you to speak with with your local lodge members. If anything it may help assuage you of any nefarious doings that you think may be transpiring. In the eventuality that you do join I admonish to investigate every aspect of Masonry to determine for yourself if what we have said to you is truth or not.



posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 06:23 PM
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If I wanted to hear cult rants I'd go on a Scientology website.



posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 06:24 PM
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reply to post by adrenochrome
 


I wasn't actually trying to be "ignorant". I was pointing out the poor nature of the arguement you presented. I have no problem with anyone questioning Masonry or anything else. Personally, that is why I am here. I was taught to question at an early age. It's a good thing.

Your arguement carries no weight thought. It is what is termed faulty siligism. Since this is a masonic thread lets use Monty Python and the Holy Grail example in the short form. "Witches float. Ducks float. If you weigh as much as a duck, you must be a witch." Silly as that example is, it's true. Both are independent statements that cannot be correlated without at least a 3rd piece of (if not more) corraboratory evidence.

Therefore you neighbor who thinks Masons are evil and have no idea what is going on above them ("from the lower ranks") hold no water just because he thinks it. I still don't understand the PO Box piece.

As an FYI, I have read the entire thread.



posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 06:28 PM
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Hi Augustus
[I am glad that you did research on this, many neglect to perform thier own examination of topics.]

Yes amen wish everyone would do more studying on alot of things lol ..

[Being that the Swastika has been co-opted as a symbol of national Socialism does this negate its previous symbology and the intent that it conveyed to those who used it before?]

That would be my question to you about your symbols and rituals .
I personally will have nothing to do with a Swastica even if my pastor(which I dont have one but if I did) told me to, even if he changed its meanings ..It is still a symbol that If I waved it around people would certainly just assume I was a Nazi and I dont care to even go there ...if you know what I mean ..I wont even do it so no one can think I am associated in any way with that sign........

[My point is that I can not, somehow, be 'deceived' into inadvertently worshipping something or someone that I do not wish.]

I do see your point there ...but do not believe you can never be deceived ..I thought the same thing a few times and guess what I was wrong ...I was uninformed due to my neglegence in digging deep enough on it before jumping in just because it all seemed so good.....The good thing about it all was that I learned alot when studying on what they believed ..*(I joined a United Pentecostal Church and it was a cult ) ..I learned alot about the bible while digging into it just to show them their error in their teachings ...and when I did see the light ..I got out ..
Well they actually tossed me out in a way ...they didnt want me to influence their congregation anymore so they told them to avoid me at all cost (they would lose their income from the members,they would lose all the deeds the members signed over to them etc ) .....so I didnt go back ....



posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 06:33 PM
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Originally posted by WishForWings
If I wanted to hear cult rants I'd go on a Scientology website.


Well, if we are wasting your time, there are two options you have.

One of which is start a thread and post some useful discussion.



posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 06:46 PM
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hehe see your just a big ole sweety pie playing with your grandbaby ..
Thats so cool ...
Made me cry ...the big bad 33 masonic monster is a softy ..lol ..

So Ok yall have made me realize that even though your club may have some very serious stuff going on behind your backs ...most of you in here are not a part of it neither would you stay if you found out for sure it was ..
And that makes me look at all of you now (at least those I have talked with in the past few days on here ) with different eyes ..
And in fact I can see clearly now why so many come against me for being a Christian due to what other Christians do ...and what is done in the Religions that I am associated with ...I have done that same thing with yall (The Masons)

And for that I appologize.(wish I could spell better)

I am still not gonna join up LOL .....and I accept the fact that yall really do view it as just a frat and all in fun ...(Your not aware of the evil if there is evil behind it) So your not doing it all for an Evil intention ...I will give you that ....So there is hope for yall yet (as there is with me and my beliefs in my own religion lol)

Oh and PS ..I would trust yall to have my back if chit hits the fan and all the evil Masons do come outta the woodwork and they come to take me away and I need help you would walk away from them and come to my aid ..
Thats comforting to know ..

That reminds me ..I had a dream not to long ago ..there was something major that happened on earth and martial law was called up everywhere and some soldier came to take us all somewhere (and it wasnt good) and I stood up and said to him ..Are you really going to do this ..even though you know it is not right to do to your own peoples ....he said he had to do what he was told ..I said to him ..dont you think that sometimes in your life you have to do what is right by making a stand against the wrongs ..and isnt now a pretty good time do that (His conscience was bothering him about it ) so he didnt take us ..he left ....
I felt like there is hope for our Country and our peoples in it ..if more people were like that .
If it doesnt feel right DONT DO IT ..
listen to your intuition ...it is helpful (I dont listen to mine most of the time which is why I mess up so much lol)



posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 06:47 PM
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should i really try to apply as a freemason? i mean, if i did it'd just be to see if anything fishy is going on, but i doubt they'd let me enter for that reason. i'd rather not bend the truth and tell them i'm interested in seeing what it's all about. it'd be more accurate to say that i have a hunch that treachery's afoot, and i'm just joining to prove myself wrong. put it this way, i WISH i was making all of what i've heard up.

and some of you have another thing coming if you don't think some freemasons are evil... as for proof, well i don't need proof to know the evil men do.



posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 06:58 PM
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reply to post by Simplynoone
 



Hi yourself, Simply.

Let me ask you a question. Which Masonic symbols, if any, are you concerned about? Are there certain meanings that you feel they invoke?

I have done much research myself into the esoteric aspect of this particular topic and have found nothing alarming or disturbing. I will however attempt to seriously answer any questions you may have pertaining to Masonic symbolism. If I do not know or have the answer I will tell you so or try to direct you to a person or source that does.


[edit on 31-8-2008 by AugustusMasonicus]



posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 07:01 PM
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Originally posted by adrenochrome
should i really try to apply as a freemason? i mean, if i did it'd just be to see if anything fishy is going on, but i doubt they'd let me enter for that reason.


If you wish to join it should be because you have a desite to help others and improve yourself.


and some of you have another thing coming if you don't think some freemasons are evil... as for proof, well i don't need proof to know the evil men do.


No one will tell you that there can not be bad Masons, we will however tell you that Freemasonry as an Institution can not be evil owing to its tenets of Brotherly Love, Relief and Truth.



posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 07:06 PM
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Augustus I really do appreciate that ...and I have several that I would like to know about....I need a few days though to do my own researching on that .I dont want to look like a fool when we get into it ....

And right now there is an angel of death spirit (named starman) from another planet living in someones body (took it over as its new host body) over in another thread ..
This may take awhile LOL >....
I will get back with you though ..and again I do really appreciate your kindness and your giving us your time to fill us in on any thing we want to know ..

Same to you Mike and Appak ..(((Group Hugs all)))



posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 07:08 PM
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here's an interesting article i just came across... i'm sure you'll still say it's not proof though...

prorege-forum.com...

unfortunately it's still from a Christian's perspective, so i can already find some bias on his part. he seems to be saying that it's evil because it gets people away from the church... i don't believe that, but has anyone disproved what Manly P. Hall says about freemasonry?

[edit on 31-8-2008 by adrenochrome]



posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 07:08 PM
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Originally posted by adrenochrome
should i really try to apply as a freemason? i mean, if i did it'd just be to see if anything fishy is going on, but i doubt they'd let me enter for that reason. i'd rather not bend the truth and tell them i'm interested in seeing what it's all about.


That is entirely up to you. Of course I would prefer you join for the right reasons, not out of mere curiosity, but you have to make that call.

I will tell you this though, you'll be asked these four questions on the night of your initiation (and in some States these are on the Petition for membership):

1. Do you believe in the existence of God, the Creator?

2. Do you solemnly declare, upon your honor, that, unbiased by friends and uninfluenced by mercenary motives, you freely and voluntarily offer yourself a candidate for the mysteries of Freemasonry?

3. Do you solemnly, declare upon your honor, that you are prompted to solicit the privileges of Freemasonry by a favorable opinion conceived of the Institution, and a desire for knowledge?

4. Do you solemnly declare, upon your honor, that you will cheerfully conform to all the ancient established usages and customs of the Fraternity, and forever keep secret its esoteric words, signs and ceremonies?

If you cannot, in good conscience, answer "Yes" to ALL of these, then you will be deeply disappointed at what you find inside the door. The fact of the matter is, you can lie and say "yes" to all of them, be initiated into the various degrees, and you'll go away missing the entire point of Freemasonry.

Sadly, many of our members do this.


it'd be more accurate to say that i have a hunch that treachery's afoot, and i'm just joining to prove myself wrong. put it this way, i WISH i was making all of what i've heard up.
and some of you have another thing coming if you don't think some freemasons are evil... as for proof, well i don't need proof to know the evil men do.


Yes, there are indeed evil men. Some of whom are Freemasons (sadly) but I assure you it's the MEN who are evil, not the institution.



posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 07:12 PM
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Originally posted by adrenochrome
here's an interesting article i just came across... i'm sure you'll still say it's not proof though...

prorege-forum.com...


The first few lines say enough. One of the first things said is "even your savior Hiram"

That's proof-positive the write knows nothing about Freemasony and is spreading lies that have been told and re-told.

Hiram is not considered a "Savior" Indeed Freemasonry teaches NOTHING about a Savior because it's not a religion.

Hirams (fictitious) murder is an allegory meant to teach a moral lesson. Nothing more. To make more of it is to miss it's entire point.

Edit to add:

Oh, and regarding Manly Hall. I've read most of his work, but keep in mind, what he wrote about Freemasonry he wrote MANY years BEFORE he even BECAME a Mason. He, too, did a lot of speculating and based his "facts" on the speculation of those who came before him.

Interesting stuff, but not dogmatic in any sense.





[edit on 31-8-2008 by Appak]



posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 07:15 PM
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reply to post by adrenochrome
 


The statement asserting that Jesus' name had been removed from the Bible is patently false. I have the Bible I was initiated, passed and raised with and it most definetly has the name of Jesus in it throughout the New Testement.

I have a tendency to disregard peoples opinions as fact when they are so blantantly biased as this persons views were. I think there is no room in his world for differing or opposing stances.



posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 07:15 PM
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One more Question before I go and give yall a break from me lol ..


Appak ...I thought you said they allow for someone to have many other beliefs ?(I think it was you who told me that )
If thats true then why would people have to answer yes to they believe in God the Creator >?
Seems a contradiction already in the Masonic system does it not ?
You are aware that many other belief systems do not believe in God as creator Where would that leave an athiest scientist then if he wanted to join ?
What about someone who believes in many gods and that aliens created us not God ?



posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 07:17 PM
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reply to post by Simplynoone
 


well it goes deeper than that... who created the aliens then? i think one would have to be very ignorant to not believe in a divine creator.

[edit on 31-8-2008 by adrenochrome]



posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 07:20 PM
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Originally posted by Simplynoone
Appak ...I thought you said they allow for someone to have many other beliefs ?(I think it was you who told me that )
If thats true then why would people have to answer yes to they believe in God the Creator >?


No, you misunderstand. Masonry requires her members to believe that there is an Almighty Creator (God). What he believes about God is between him and his creator. We do not allow those who believe in "several" gods, if you follow me.


Seems a contradiction already in the Masonic system does it not ?
You are aware that many other belief systems do not believe in God as creator Where would that leave an athiest scientist then if he wanted to join ?


It would leave an athiest out the door. In the very first Degree (Entered Apprentice) we ask the Candidate in whom he places his trust. His answer is (and MUST) be "in God" That very same degree says "no athiest can become a Mason" (all this is in our Monitors so I'm not disclosing anything I shouldn't here).



What about someone who believes in many gods and that aliens created us not God ?
See above.



posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 07:46 PM
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[No, you misunderstand. Masonry requires her members to believe that there is an Almighty Creator (God). What he believes about God is between him and his creator. We do not allow those who believe in "several" gods, if you follow me.]

Ok sorry about that ...yes I misunderstood ..


[It would leave an athiest out the door. In the very first Degree (Entered Apprentice) we ask the Candidate in whom he places his trust. His answer is (and MUST) be "in God" That very same degree says "no athiest can become a Mason" (all this is in our Monitors so I'm not disclosing anything I shouldn't here).]

Thats very interesting I wonder why that is .
I am not so sure that is right ..isnt that being inclusive and why is that ?
I know most churchs and cults and clubs allow as many who will come to come because they believe that maybe they would learn morals and values and whatever if they were allowed in and the ones who dont allow everyone in are usually only the cults ..(They have to be very careful to just get those who are vulnerable and dont ask to many questions etc so they wont find out the dirty deed and leave and tell others ..... and also because the more the merrier right >?
Do you see why that concerns me now ?

I have been on Christian websites that closed up shop to the outside (not allowing anyone in without major checking into their postings over the web from other places etc ...and then denying them if they are Athiests and Satanists etc ..I asked them ...Dont yall believe that they are seeking the truth maybe just like we are ?And then I said ..dont you believe we are supposed to reach out to all those people who we think of as lost etc ..they said yes ..
I asked them then ...Just how are you supposed to do that if you NEVER LET THEM IN ?And you never talk to them and you tell them go away ......
I had to leave over that little ordeal ....




[edit on 31-8-2008 by Simplynoone]



posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 08:21 PM
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Originally posted by Simplynoone
I am not so sure that is right ..isnt that being inclusive and why is that ?


No, it's being exclusive. We do not allow convicted felons either. Our goal is not to make bad people good.

As for atheists, well, as I said before we require that all our members believe in God the Creator. Atheists do not, therefore they cannot become members. I'm not saying atheists are collectively bad people, but that is the ancient rule and it cannot be deviated from.

There are actually some jurisdictions (one in France for instance) that DID deviate from that and allows atheists to join. They are not recognized as being legitimate Freemasonry now as they have violated one of the ancient landmarks.

Here is a brief article on those landmarks:

freemasonry.bcy.ca...


I know most churchs and cults and clubs allow as many who will come to come because they believe that maybe they would learn morals and values and whatever if they were allowed in and the ones who dont allow everyone in are usually only the cults


We are neither church, club nor cult.




and also because the more the merrier right ?


Not necessarily. It is not meant that everyone be a Freemason. Freemasonry simply isn't for everyone. That's why we do not ask people to join. We wait for the person to ask US to join, then we investigate their character, etc. and make the determination as to whether we'll admit them.

Again, that's very exclusive and many people take issue with it, but the fact is, (and I do NOT mean this to be smug) it's ours and we'll decide whom we share it with.

Many anti-Masons get on their soapboxes over that and make the ludicrous claim that somehow they have a "right" to our secrets. A lot of that spawns from the liberal-thinking that's so prevalent in the world today. Everyone thinks they have a "right" to whatever they want but it's not always true. Particularly in this case.

Now all that being said, those who come to us genuinely seeking the truth, we will gladly share. We won't GIVE that person anything, for if they truly want to receive the rights, lights and benefits of Freemasonry, they'll work hard for it.

And they'll enjoy every second of it.

Nite-nite little Sister. Been a long day



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