The Master Mason doesn't know squat!

I love it when someone uses a cult disinformation link to discredit a fraternal organization that actualy has more verification of its true intended purpose. Those links are for the foolish to read, probably because theuser didn;'t have the moral fiber to become a Mason. I have seen this many times in my lifetime. Its scurulous and unbefitting to use information in the manner you have chosen. It also calls into question your motives. Have you been turned down by the masons yourself?? Probably couldn't make it in the boyscouts either!

Zindo

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by Manasseh

 

I am actually a 32nd degree Scotish rite mason as well as a 3rd degree master mason. unfortunately it will take quite some time to reach the honorary degree of 33rd. But I still don't have the inside scoop like you do.

Then you should understand the role of being a
"Knight of the Brazen Serpent"

THIS Degree is both philosophical and moral. While it teaches the necessity of reformation as well as repentance, as a means of obtaining mercy and forgiveness, it is also devoted to an explanation of the symbols of Masonry; and especially to those which are connected with that ancient and universal legend, of which that of Khir-Om Abi is but a variation; that legend which, representing a murder or a death, and a restoration to life, by a drama in which figure Osiris, Isis and Horus, Atys and Cybele, Adonis and Venus, the Cabiri, Dionusos, and many another representative of the active and passive Powers of Nature, taught the Initiates in the Mysteries that the rule of Evil and Darkness is but temporary, and that that of Light and Good will be eternal.

Maimonides says: "In the days of Enos, the son of Seth, men fell into grievous errors, and even Enos himself partook of their infatuation. Their language was, that since God has placed on high the heavenly bodies, and used them as His ministers, it was evidently His will that they should receive from man the same

www.phoenixmasonry.org...

Have you reached "Worshipful Master" where your friends are encouraged to "worship" you??

Here, I'll even answer my own question for you, since the Masonic websites give you a guide on how to defend masonry against us evil anti-masons

The Master of a Lodge - who, when addressed, is given the honorific title of "Worshipful" - presides over the meeting of Masons. His duties in the functioning of a lodge is quite similar to that of the President of the local chapter/branch of any other state or provincial organization except as explained below.

Religious Intolerants try to make much out of the title "Worshipful" arguing in turn that Masons:
bullet are required to do the Master's bidding in all things;
bullet are worshipping a man rather than Jesus;
bullet or/and are part of some sort of cult where a 'worshipful master' presides.

At the outset, let's be very clear: the term is one of respect and has nothing whatsoever to do with 'worshipping' of an individual. It is an ancient word usage with a meaning similar to the honorific "Your Honor". Use of the word 'worshipful' continues today in titles such as "The Worshipful Lord Mayor of Dublin" - who is not worshipped in the traditional sense nor is he necessarily a secular Lord - and is certainly not a Lord in a religious sense by anyone's stretch of imagination.

www.masonicinfo.com...

Originally posted by mtmouse32

Woah. Hold the pickles and onions, please. Something seems a bit off, even to me ( who isn't "skilled" in various matters ) I had a book that detailed a lot about masons a long time ago and in your other thread ( ATS Post ) you said you've only been with the masons for 2 years and you are supposedly advanced that far? From my readings, it takes quite a bit of learning, reading and understanding that I am surprised they had so many meetings to bump you that quickly.

mtmouse32,

That's why it's so hard for those who are not Masons to fully understand the truth. For many years a man could not progress through the first three degrees except one month at a time (at the quickest) Some states now do all three degrees in one day.

The Scottish Rite (4th-32nd Degree) has for years, had "one day classes" 3rd Degree members receive all 29 Scottish Rite Degrees in a day! In actuality they only have "conferred upon" them a few degrees 4th, 14th, 18th, 30th & 32nd, the remainder are "communicated" in title only.

Now some areas even confer the 1st-3rd, followed immediately by the 4th-32nd in ONE DAY. So when a Mason says "I'm a 32nd Degree Mason" he may have become one (in it's entirety) yesterday. There is no "time period" nor required number of attended meetings.

I myself received the first three degrees over a period of 3 months (this was back in the day when the lectures had to be memorized and given before the Lodge in order to be passed to the next degree) about a year later I petitioned the Scottish Rite and received the 4th - 32nd Degrees over a period of about 6 hours, which included lunch, dinner, a group photograph, introduction of officers, etc.

The number of degrees held in Freemasonry doesn't mean anything at all. It's the individual and what he learns FROM Freemasonry, which he then gives (or should) the world.

We are all supposed to be known by our works. Sadly, so many people think we work in darkness, when in reality Freemasonry is in the light. It's everywhere, but most do not recognize it.

reply to post by Appak


That does make a lot of sense. I never stated the material I had was accurate or truthful, just stating on what I had understood. ( If i could find the book, I'd state the name / etc here to get better understanding from someone that may know it ) But your explanation does make sense of it all to me. Thank you for posting and enlightening me on that.

reply to post by mtmouse32


In the southern juristiction of the Scotish Rite, the degrees are confered to canidates in several different ways. Usually it takes three days to present the degrees but when I went it was done in one very long day. From what I understand, the York Rite degrees take a long time. I think you have to study and recite information as you do in the first to third degrees. I am an officer in my blue lodge and I became a 32nd mason in my first year. they were having a membership drive. There is nothing diabolical about my progression, but masons with a lot more expirence than I have stated that canidates should have more blue lodge knowlege before going to the scottish rite. I think I would have gotten more out of the original expireience if I had followed that, but I can go back to the reunion and see what I missed anytime.

Originally posted by Manasseh
Then you should understand the role of being a
"Knight of the Brazen Serpent"

Do YOU? Have you received the degree? If now, why are you talking about it? You cannot possibly understand the "role" as you say.

And actually he may or may not know about that degree. Depending on his Masonic Jurisdiction. You see, in the Northern Masonic Jurisdiction of the U.S. the degree "Knight of the Brazen Serpent" doesn't even exist. They completely rewrote it and moved it to the 6th Degree now called "Master of the Brazen Serpent"

By the way, the degree teaches a moral lesson....based on the story of those who mistakenly worshipped the brazen serpent in the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament, if you prefer)

www.supremecouncil.org...

Masonry is very different in every Jurisdiction. That's why blanket statements like yours and those of your ilk make no sense. You truly do not understand, but you want the world to believe that YOU know everything about Masonry, and we (the long-time active participants; read "Masons") know nothing. Silly stuff.

Have you reached "Worshipful Master" where your friends are encouraged to "worship" you??

Interesting that you post that info on the meaning of this title, and do not even understand what you read.

The Master is, of course, NEVER worshiped. Have you ever met any of these guys? If you did, you wouldn't worship them either!

Originally posted by mtmouse32
reply to post by Appak

 

That does make a lot of sense. I never stated the material I had was accurate or truthful, just stating on what I had understood. ( If i could find the book, I'd state the name / etc here to get better understanding from someone that may know it ) But your explanation does make sense of it all to me. Thank you for posting and enlightening me on that.

You're welcome.

Masonry has changed much in the last few years and continues to change.

That's why even some of the basic info that the OP had (the non-inflamatory parts) isn't completely accurate. Like my post regarding the degree Knight of the Brazen Serpent. The Northern Masonic Jurisdiction of the Scottish Rite in the U.S. does things quite differently from the Southern Jurisdiction, U.S. Heck, even the names (as you can see) are quite different because the Southern Jurisdiction doesn't include the word "Masonic"

Across the pond (where some of our ATS Masons reside) the Ancient & Accepted Scottish Rite isn't even CALLED that, but rather the Ancient & Accepted Rite, and their degree system and manner of receiving the various degrees is quite different as well.

Makes it difficult for members to fully understand, so it's understandably difficult for non-members.

Also makes good fodder for the spread of hatred and lies by those who think they know about us, but are in reality clueless. We got a lot of those around here.

Originally posted by network dude
From what I understand, the York Rite degrees take a long time. I think you have to study and recite information as you do in the first to third degrees.

Actually today the York Rite Degrees (like those of the Scottish Rite) can be and often are given in "class" settings and in one day. I took the long route (many years ago) but I know the one day classes have been going on for at *least* 20 years, that I can recall and I've been a member many more years than that.

Originally posted by mtmouse32

Woah. Hold the pickles and onions, please. Something seems a bit off, even to me ( who isn't "skilled" in various matters ) I had a book that detailed a lot about masons a long time ago and in your other thread ( ATS Post ) you said you've only been with the masons for 2 years and you are supposedly advanced that far? From my readings, it takes quite a bit of learning, reading and understanding that I am surprised they had so many meetings to bump you that quickly.

It borders on fishy. Its like me saying I 32 years old, have 3 Ph.D's but only have been going to college for 1 year. Somewhere, it doesn't add up.

No, it's actually pretty simple. In most cases, with very few exceptions, it takes 3 to 6 months to 1. Petition the lodge; 2. Have your petition read and voted upon; 3. Be initiated into the Entered Apprentice Degree; 4. Learn your EA work and be tested on your proficiency; 5. Be passed to the degree of Fellowcraft; 6. Learn your FC work and be tested on your proficiency; 7. Be raised to the degree of Master Mason. Once you've got your 3rd degree (and have sufficiently turned in your work) you can apply to join the Scottish Rite.

In most "valleys" (cities) the Scottish Rite confers their degrees to a class in ceremonies held 3 or 4 times a year, tops. In that "reunion", which can be anywhere from one day to a full weekend, the candidates are all brought from 4 to 32 during the course of that reunion. Some of the degrees MUST be enacted for each class, while others can either be acted out or just instructed in the classroom.

So depending on when a Scottish Rite reunion were scheduled, a person could easily go from not being a Mason to being a 32 in under 3 months.

reply to post by Appak


I have talked to members who have said they were on the 18th degree and expected to reach 19th soon, that is what made me think that way. in my limited expirence, it seems like there would be more importance and outside respect for the degrees if we had to learn them and their meaning like we did in the first three. For me it is kind of like seeing something in a flash, you take days to realize all of what you saw. I suspect it will take years to really understand the true meaning in all the degrees. I really liked the 28th. Our lodge put it on and really got into it.
Thank you for you information and conversation.
Have a nice day brother.

What is the point in masonary, and it heiarchy structure? Surely its not just a charitable or social club and certainly wasnt founded as such. Like any other form of groups with a similar structure, for example the armed forces, the structure is intended, clearly for the purposes of control of the lesser ranks/degrees. All powerful groups are formed along these principles, therefore masonary is about power and control.

reply to post by Anonymous ATS


You could say that about anything these days. Corporations have a president and it trickles down. Churches have a head office and leader and, again, it trickles down.

What makes the masons different? Someone ( or group of someones ) have to make sure people are following the rules outlined in the bylaws / guidelines. Doesn't mean that its evil.

reply to post by Anonymous ATS


what is most interesting is myself and quite a few other masons here believe masonry is just that, a beautiful system of morality put in place by people who just want to make this world a little better. I am not claiming to have any knowlege other than that, but that is why I go to lodge meetings. Maybe we decided that talking about making things better doesn't always get it done, but doing something about it will most certainly help.

reply to post by Anonymous ATS


And on top of that, there are hundred of examples such as the following.

As I was thinking of writing this article — about how I feel today about Freemasonry — I read an email backchannel that was sent by a Mason out West to a blue lodge secretary and to the Grand Master of Texas, informing them that one of their members had recently been arrested in a sting operation involving solicitation of sex from a minor.

That brought back memories of my experiences in my own blue lodge in 2005, when a member pleaded guilty to sexual exploitation of a minor in my hometown.

As then-webmaster of our lodge's website, I posted the news online (pursuant to Georgia Masonic Code, which states that information of that sort should be publicized to show the community that the lodge doesn't tolerate such behavior), and met with a torrent of criticism from my lodge brothers saying, “You can't put that online!” They didn't want the lodge, or the child exploiter's father, a Past Master, “embarrassed.”

burningtaper.blogspot.com...

Is it any wonder Masonic "charities" seem to always associate children?

The Scottish Rite Freemasons, Northern Jurisdiction, has made treating dyslexia one of its premier missions. The Freemasons have established more than fifty learning centers across the country in order to accomplish this mission. They fully fund the learning centers with a price tag of 7.2 million dollars annually. The L exington Masonic Learning Center for Children is tucked away on the hill behind the National Heritage Museum, which is also fully funded by the Scottish Rite Masons.

(bold added)
www.childrenslearningcenters.org...

And now the masons are collecting DNA samples from unsuspecting children and their paranoid parents.

CHIP stands for Child Identification Program (CHIP). This local program is meant to address the alarming fact that an estimated 1,000,000 children each year are reported missing across the United States. While many children are found, an alarming number of children are not. The abduction of children is both under-reported and rapidly increasing. The CHIP provides parents and guardians with comprehensive packet containing vital and effective information quickly to emergency responders.
...

vinegrovelodge603.com...

What a way to control who gets found, and who doesn't. And then the masons can target children with the "approved" DNA.

Originally posted by Manasseh
What a way to control who gets found, and who doesn't. And then the masons can target children with the "approved" DNA.

Talk about paranoia on an esoteric level. Wow!

FYI, the ChIP program collects this information from children whose parents VOLUNTEER it. Has nothing to do with "who does and who doesn't" if no one volunteers.

Additionally, and the info (ALL of it) is given to the parents, not, I repeat NOT kept by the Masons, so your "targeting" remark is once again an example of baiting.

A dime a dozen.

Originally posted by Manasseh

What a way to control who gets found, and who doesn't. And then the masons can target children with the "approved" DNA.

And guess who gets ALL the material? The child's PARENTS! Of course, let's not let something as inconvenient as fact distract you from a wildly wrong assertion.

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon
And guess who gets ALL the material? The child's PARENTS! Of course, let's not let something as inconvenient as fact distract you from a wildly wrong assertion.

Aw c'mon Fitz! 93.874% of the posts on this board couldn't exist if it weren't for THAT!

reply to post by Manasseh



The Masonic Lodge won't admit that their BIBLE does not even mention JESUS CHRIST nor that the MORMAN CHURCH has links to the MASONIC LODGE, which it does to the TEMPLE ceremonies.

Originally posted by Evisscerator
The Masonic Lodge won't admit that their BIBLE does not even mention JESUS CHRIST

Even MORE tripe.

The vast majority of U.S. Masonic Lodges use the Authorized King James Version of the Holy Bible on their altars. You know...the one with the New Testament. You know the part about the birth, life, death, resurrection and ascention of Jesus Christ?

Please.

nor that the MORMAN CHURCH has links to the MASONIC LODGE, which it does to the TEMPLE ceremonies.

There is NO official connection between the LDS Church and Masonic Lodge.

However, her founder was a Mason until he was expelled, as were many of her early leaders. Many of the Mormon Endowment Ceremonies are based upon Masonic Ritual. What of it?

The ceremonies of the Order of Odd Fellows, the Knights of the Golden Eagle, the Knights of Pythias, etc. are also modeled in one way or another after the Masons. First degree of the Knights of Columbus has a line that is directly taken from the First Degree of Freemasonry and the Second Degree of the Knights of Columbus has a ceremony very similar to a ceremony in the 30th Degree of the Masonic Scottish Rite. Imitation is the highest form of flattery.

No conspiracy here.

[edit on 30-8-2008 by Appak]