The Master Mason doesn't know squat!

Originally posted by RealityisanIllusion
When are you going to debate these things with me? I'm not a Mason, I'm not going to get upset. Are you afraid of an even sided debate?

Don't hold your breath Reality. Members like DarksDeception aren't here to contribute to the site, nor to understand the truth. They are here for other reasons. I won't say why here, because sometimes when you get too truthful here, you get in trouble with the mods. Know what I mean?

Keep the faith!

reply to post by senrak


I think maybe I do know what you mean. It's a shame that such is the case in a place that should be open to forward thinking, and open questioning.

Originally posted by RealityisanIllusion
reply to post by senrak

 

I think maybe I do know what you mean. It's a shame that such is the case in a place that should be open to forward thinking, and open questioning.

True enough, but don't look for that here. This site is riddled with posters who believe that they are adamantly right and EVERYONE else is undenyably wrong. And admittedly that would be understandable if these individuals had ever experienced the things that they claim to know so much about.

reply to post by Mason mike


True. It is true.

And by doubling the triangle, one discovers a 3:4 rectangle, which divides into three lesser parts, each 4:9, being the three doors that must be entered at once, and know the fullness of All that Is.

Originally posted by Manasseh

No, "The See" is Queen Elizabeth II" and her son Charles is in line to become the new "Lord of Man", and the official anti-christ of the bible, since he will become the leader of the ultimate anti-christ society, The Order of the Knights Templar, who Jesus angered when He whipped the "money changers" in the Temple.

It was the Temple Knights who protected the priest's money, which was collected through the "money changers"

The "money changers" took the common folks money, which had the face of Caesar on it, and exchanged it for coins which were acceptable to God, according to the priests, so that the common folk could pay their tithe to the church.

The Knights Temple, and their offshoots, the money collectors, such as the Masons, Eastern Star, Rainbow Girls, Boy Scouts, etc.

Let me begin by saying that I'm not a Freemason, however in the interest of full disclosure I am seriously considering petitioning to become a member. What I am is a history major and am amazed by your statements regarding the Knights Templar. I stumbled onto this site can't believe the amount of people on here who throw things out without any attempt to check the facts about what they are saying. I'm not here to argue about your beliefs, you're entitled to believe whatever you choose, but I would like to let you in on a few facts that you obviously aren't aware of.

The Knights Templar did not exist as an organization until 1112 C.E. This is roughly 1100 years AFTER Jesus of Nazareth walked the earth, which means that it is impossible for them to have had anything to do with the life or death of Jesus. They began as a small group of French knights who initially lived in an area that is now the Al Asqa Mosque on the Temple mount and they along with the Hospitallers were given Papal charters to provide security to Christians making the pilgramage to Jerusalem from the Christian port at Acre.
There is no mention of any "Templars" in the story of Jesus and the money changers. Futhermore while there are differences in the description of who came with Judas to arrest Jesus depending on which Gospel you read, none of the 4 say anything about Templars. Two, Matthew and Mark are nearly identical in describing a large crowd armed with swords and clubs. Luke merely describes a crowd, then says the priests and the temple guards took him. John says that eJudas led soldiers (Roman) and some officials of the temple sent by the Pharisees. The point being that if we were to use the source documents, written by the followers of Jesus as the basis for our beliefs, then the New Testament clearly shows that there were no mentions or references to the Knights Templar or Freemasons at all. If you have any questions about historical facts in your posts they are real easy to use google to find reputable websites like Encyclopeadia's Brittanica or Americana to get facts on the topic before you just throw things you've heard out there. The point being is that it is normally best to be sure of your statements to keep people from dismissing your posts immediately without giving you the chance to lay out an argument. It falls under the line that if someone shows immediately they aren't informed and are putting out the same old disproved arguments then most everyone is going to shut down and not pay attention to anything you say.

I respect your right to believe anything you like as well as your right to talk about it in sites like this one. You seem intellegent but misinformed, more like you're simply repeating things that you've heard from another source, or perhaps a mentor. If it's the latter, maybe you could start researching the things they are telling you and you maybe be surprised as to what you see.

Two links about the Knights Templar, I'd be happy to post more if needed.

www.newadvent.org...

www.crystalinks.com...





[edit on 30-8-

[edit on 2-9-2008 by jfiery]

reply to post by RealityisanIllusion
[more
I've been delaying too, not because I'm worried about skeletons, but because I want to know that once I committ myself to the lodge, I will be able to fulfill the requirements in terms of meetings, volunteer work, and whatever other things that come up. In addition, I like you want to know all I can about the fraternity before hand. I have pretty much covered the Pro-Mason views. I have spoken to members of the lodge that I am interested in and have had my petition filled out for about a year, just not submitted. This goes back to the idea of being able to give appropriate time and attention. We had a house fire and other issues that has prevented me from going through with it, but it has also allowed me to get a lot more information on the order. I've read all sides, from the legitimate to the deranged, and have come to an even higher opinion of masons due to the way they handle situations that have got to annoy them greatly.
I don't know if you guys realize it or not, but you taking the time to refute lies and misconceptions matter in the overall picture because it helps to prevent someone who has no knowledge whatsoever of the masons from reading sites like this and coming out believing that you're a bunch of satanic child molesting monsters. Respectfull and articulate responses even when stern, as opposed to rambling, hsyterical tirades are what the intellegent reader is going to gravitate to, and in doing so they will form a favorable opinion of the work in addition to the writer. So there is a purpose for what you're doing by continuing to answer questions and to challenge the unimformed.

reply to post by JoshNorton


I'd like to know what happened that allowed men to rush through everything in a day? I was under the impression that there are reasons for acting out the varoius degrees and important moral lessons which are told through acting it out. How are these same lessons being taught today if everything is on warp speed? It seems to me that the Masonic system of raising candidates has become watered down just like everything else in the world. While I'm not claiming to know whether it has benefits or not, I am having trouble in understanding the need for completly changing something that has been successful and lasted at least a few hundred years for a process in which Master Masons are Mass Produced. Somewhere along the line there has to be a trade off and it seems to me that the tradeoff in this case is the knowledge which was to be gained in completing the degrees as they were initially intended.
I'm assuming it's been changed to the warp drive system because it is hard to draw younger members and even harder to get them to stick around while not progressing for months on end? Instant gratification or you lose them. I also thought that Masons can't ask someone to become a member. Then I saw on TV while I was living in NY commercials that were basically selling all three degrees in a day for a fee. Is it a case of desperation? I know that the average age of the freemasons in the U.S. is well over 60 and that it's important to gain younger members, but holding mass initiations to anyone who walks through the door seems wrong on some level. I mean there should be some vetting process shouldn't there? I want to join and probably will do so in the coming days, but there are questions that I have which I hope I can find answers for.

Originally posted by jfiery
I saw on TV while I was living in NY commercials that were basically selling all three degrees in a day for a fee. Is it a case of desperation?

They've alienated themselves from the masses. I suspect that thier multi-generational plan of world domination is comming to fruition and so new membership is unnessesary and a mere formality.

[edit on 2-9-2008 by In nothing we trust]

The lodges are all independent. There is no hierarchical control, very little money goes up to the grand lodge. Any alternative lodges like York or Scottish, or the Shriners all have to raise their own money and support their own endeavors. If there is some ultra top secret Masonic society, they are independent of the blue lodge. The only requirement is that their members must also be members of the blue lodge, in order to be considered as Masons. The only degree that matters is the third degree, and there used to only be two degrees.

reply to post by In nothing we trust


I'm asking in all seriousness with no intent to disrespect you, but do you really truly believe that or are you trying to be funny? I'm refering to the secret multi generational statement you made.

Originally posted by jfiery
I'm refering to the secret multi generational statement you made.

Absoultly

Originally posted by jfiery
I'd like to know what happened that allowed men to rush through everything in a day?

There are a couple of reasons someone might want dispensation to do a one-day Blue Lodge rush. THe one that immediately comes to mind is servicemen who want to join before going off to war. There were two cases in my lodge in the last year where men were going to Iraq but wanted to join our lodge before leaving. One knew he had enough time to do them one at a time, but we still hustled to get him well taught on his work between each degree so that we could schedule him for the next as quickly as possible. The second case, I recall we got dispensation from the Grand Lodge to confer the Fellowcraft and Master Mason degrees on a young man on the same day. (He may have gotten his Entered Apprentice as recently as a week or two prior...) We knew he wouldn't have time to go through the proper methods prior to being shipped out, so we rolled right from 2nd to 3rd degree non-stop to get him covered.

I'd heard rumor that when the Shrine dropped their old requirement of their members also being York or Scottish Rite Masons, and relaxed it to having any Master Mason qualified to join them, that there was a pressure to put on one day classes for old men who only wanted to join Masonry because they had buddies in the Shrine. Don't know how true that is, but seems relevant.

You know all, I have sworn no oath, so I can continue with impunity.

The reason for the secret reaches back to Plato when he inscribed above the door to his school:

"let no one inapt to geometry come in"

Which is crudely translated thus:

"let no one ignorant of geometry enter"

The Sacred Word is that combination of vowels within a single breath summarizing the most relevant aspects of geometry through sound or vibration. For in truth all form can be expressed as sound, and the architecture of the universe as the Music of the Spheres!

I wouldn't describe myself as anti-mason but I would also have to say that I wouldn't entirely trust one either. I find it mildly amusing that masons feel they are somehow out to make the world a better place!
So please, if you will, could the masons who post on this thread tell me how they are going to go about saving the world and make it a better place? Thank you. . .

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
I wouldn't describe myself as anti-mason but I would also have to say that I wouldn't entirely trust one either. I find it mildly amusing that masons feel they are somehow out to make the world a better place!
So please, if you will, could the masons who post on this thread tell me how they are going to go about saving the world and make it a better place? Thank you. . .

I will refer you back to my previous post. Everyone may not agree, but I think these examples from just the past couple of months seem to have helped make the world a little better.

I wanted to address this post first before I read further. About masons keeping "95%" of the charity money - Last year masons donated $525 million to charity. 58% of that money went to the general public, meaning that it benefitted anyone who needed it. The remainder went to masonic charities, primarily Shriner's Hospitals for children. In addition, our books are open. We are a non-profit (but NOT tax-exempt) organization and our lodge accounting is open for examination. I also just received my quarterly state freemason magazine. Here are some of the highlights: - 'Illinois Masons Curing Cancer' benefit is being held. ALL monies donated will be given to the University of Chicago Cancer Research Foundation and the Kathleen Warble Foundation - Golf Outing raises $6,774.08 for the Illinois Masonic Student Assistance Program for drug abuse prevention - Rainbow Girls of Illinois donate $6000 to the Illinois Child Identification Program - Special activities and events were held for the children living in the Illinois Masonic Children's Homes in La Grange and Murphysboro. This is an orphanage for children. - In the last 12 months Illinois masons have donated 1170 units of blood. The number of lodges participating this year was 62, up from 49 last year. - In the third year of the Illinois Child ID Program a total of 21,600 children were photographed, videotaped, fingerprinted and the ID packages were given to parents absolutely free. - The Coins for Children program purchased learning kits, tables and playground equipment for Loraine Elementary School. The Clinton lodge paid for a concrete pad and ramps for skateboarders, and Pana lodge donated $500 for computers for the Youth Department of the local library. - Madison lodge held Rally for the Troops, raising $3700 for sending items requested by our troops overseas. - Mazon lodge awarded four scholarships to high school seniors for $2350. Anyway... blah blah blah... we don't keep 95% of our charity donations. That is a lie.

reply to post by Manasseh


Ladies and Gentleman,

I have some evidence to provide,


"Freemasonry, the path to Hell

I am the Parakletos. Hermit, to Masons.

I was given knowledge to argue the truth for those who live simple lives, trying to get by without gaining by harming others.

Atheists. Doesn't it offend you when freemasons say they won't accept you because you are an atheist?

Yet, the majority of freemasons on this forum (there is a bunch) are either atheists or believe in Greco/Roman gods.

We see how their societies ended up in ruins, yet they have built America off of the same belief system, and now they are out to conquer the world, just like the Romans.

Most Masons take their oath on the bible. George Washington took his with his hand on Psalm 127:1 "

This is from an old thread ATS thread

Now, are you still claiming not to be this person, or is it an amazing coincidence that you are the "Parakletos" as well as this kind hearted gentleman?

You really need to not leave so many clues. Although it was fun to find the link. It made me remember the good old days.

Have a nice day Stompk, cutbothways, and whoever you will be next time.

reply to post by RealityisanIllusion


I am sorry I confused you with this person.
I was wrong. Please have a nice day.

Originally posted by emsed1

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
I wouldn't describe myself as anti-mason but I would also have to say that I wouldn't entirely trust one either. I find it mildly amusing that masons feel they are somehow out to make the world a better place!
So please, if you will, could the masons who post on this thread tell me how they are going to go about saving the world and make it a better place? Thank you. . .

I will refer you back to my previous post. Everyone may not agree, but I think these examples from just the past couple of months seem to have helped make the world a little better.

I wanted to address this post first before I read further. About masons keeping "95%" of the charity money - Last year masons donated $525 million to charity. 58% of that money went to the general public, meaning that it benefitted anyone who needed it. The remainder went to masonic charities, primarily Shriner's Hospitals for children. In addition, our books are open. We are a non-profit (but NOT tax-exempt) organization and our lodge accounting is open for examination. I also just received my quarterly state freemason magazine. Here are some of the highlights: - 'Illinois Masons Curing Cancer' benefit is being held. ALL monies donated will be given to the University of Chicago Cancer Research Foundation and the Kathleen Warble Foundation - Golf Outing raises $6,774.08 for the Illinois Masonic Student Assistance Program for drug abuse prevention - Rainbow Girls of Illinois donate $6000 to the Illinois Child Identification Program - Special activities and events were held for the children living in the Illinois Masonic Children's Homes in La Grange and Murphysboro. This is an orphanage for children. - In the last 12 months Illinois masons have donated 1170 units of blood. The number of lodges participating this year was 62, up from 49 last year. - In the third year of the Illinois Child ID Program a total of 21,600 children were photographed, videotaped, fingerprinted and the ID packages were given to parents absolutely free. - The Coins for Children program purchased learning kits, tables and playground equipment for Loraine Elementary School. The Clinton lodge paid for a concrete pad and ramps for skateboarders, and Pana lodge donated $500 for computers for the Youth Department of the local library. - Madison lodge held Rally for the Troops, raising $3700 for sending items requested by our troops overseas. - Mazon lodge awarded four scholarships to high school seniors for $2350. Anyway... blah blah blah... we don't keep 95% of our charity donations. That is a lie.

So by donating huge sums of money to various charities you are going to save the world? Its all very admirable raising money for children charities and injured servicemen but that wasn't what I asked!
I personally want to help save the world. . . God help us, it certainly needs all the help it can get. From what I've read, being a mason can help save the world so I ask, what fundemental difference and change would I experience by becoming a freemason?

reply to post by Mintwithahole.


saving the world is a mighty big task. Would you settle for helping rather than not helping? I wish I personally could have more impact with my ideas to "save the world" though they are in no way affiliated with masonry, and they might not work. (ok probably won't work)
But I am of the opinion that oil is the evil of the world. It seems to polute the air, and polute the morals of those who profit by it. I don't mean that the guy who owns the gas station down the road is satan, but we fight wars for control of oil, good men die for the persuit of it. If we switched to hydrogen in some form, we would solve several large problems. That is my opinion.

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by Mintwithahole.

 

saving the world is a mighty big task. Would you settle for helping rather than not helping? I wish I personally could have more impact with my ideas to "save the world" though they are in no way affiliated with masonry, and they might not work. (ok probably won't work)
But I am of the opinion that oil is the evil of the world. It seems to polute the air, and polute the morals of those who profit by it. I don't mean that the guy who owns the gas station down the road is satan, but we fight wars for control of oil, good men die for the persuit of it. If we switched to hydrogen in some form, we would solve several large problems. That is my opinion.

Changing to Hydrogen Isn't the answer. As soon as it become a viable alternative to oil they would but the price way up and then tax it to the hilt.