The Master Mason doesn't know squat!

Originally posted by Manasseh
Didn't you say back on page 5 or something that you weren't going to post anymore in this thread...

But thanks for keeping it alive anyway.

We figured you could use the points. Masons are nothing if not charitable.

Originally posted by ZindoDoone
reply to post by Fitzgibbon

 

Fitz,
Its amazing to me how those of us who are not masons,like me,are thrown inwith true Masons by the tantrum throwers over our opinions that Masons are just a fraternal organization who work to better themselves and they're country.

ZindoDoone,

The supreme irony is that those of us who self-identify as Freemasons are often accused of not being 'real' Masons by some who take the fraternity to task for this, that and the other. Truth be told, it can get a little confusing in that regard.

Originally posted by ZindoDoone
It comes out like sour grapes when these same folks become "zealots" about they're dislike of any fraternal type orgranization.

Agreed. It often comes across as a particular brand of xenophobia in its most extreme iterations. Even in some of the mild versions, the hallmark is frequently evident.

Originally posted by Manasseh
reply to post by Appak

 

Truth hurts doesn't it.

If it wasn't the truth, you guys would give this thread the time of day.

Didn't you say back on page 5 or something that you weren't going to post anymore in this thread...

But thanks for keeping it alive anyway.

No, it was on page 7 where I said I was going to ignore you.

You contribute absolutely NOTHING of substance. Your pack of lies doesn't merit response.

Originally posted by RealityisanIllusion
reply to post by Manasseh

 

Have you thought about the purpose of ATS? A place where people can talk about all of the consipiracies, paranormal activites and cover-ups. Could it be a possibility that it's actually a place where your thoughts can be monitored by someone else? You can easily be watched and if you say the right things you can be flagged.

Just a thought.

Manasseh,
You never did answer this question for me. It was a honest question. Perhaps this whole deal is run by the very Masons you fear so much.
Ha Ha!

Originally posted by RealityisanIllusion
Perhaps this whole deal is run by the very Masons you fear so much.
Ha Ha!

Bwahahaha! I'm sure SkepticOverlord would get a laugh out of that. Amusingly enough, his present avatar I think would more than adequately sum up his response to that suggestion.

reply to post by Fitzgibbon


I'm glad I could finally lighten the mood here just a little.
I just think it's a little odd that he feels the Masons are so powerful, bent on world domination, and evil, why wouldn't they do something as small as run this site?

[edit on 1-9-2008 by RealityisanIllusion]

[edit on 1-9-2008 by RealityisanIllusion]

Originally posted by RealityisanIllusion
reply to post by Fitzgibbon

 

I'm glad I could finally lighten the mood here just a little.
I just think it's a little odd that he feels the Masons are so powerful, bent on world domination, and evil, why wouldn't they do something as small as run this site?

'Cuz it's their site devoted to fringish possibilities (and I don't mean this as a slag). If you had a chip on your shoulder about Freemasonry that you felt was justly earned, if you knew a site was either run by or obsequious to Freemasons, why would you bother with said site? That's the demographic that ATS is marketing itself to and bully for them.

Apparently, at some point in the past, Masons were a bit too forthright here and there was some winnowing-out of the herd (so to speak). That was pre-me here (having initially stumbled across the 9/11 board before migrating into this forum because the 9/11 one was giving me a migraine ). However, earlier this year, SO and company did some witchslapping because in there read on things, Masons were getting cocky and to them, I guess it seemed like there was an echo of the previous incident. Their bat, their ball, such is life.

reply to post by Fitzgibbon


Ahhhh, as you can see, I am pretty new. I wasn't aware of any of that. I just thought it was an interesting angle to use his own opinions against him for a little bit of levity on a thread that began to deteriorate because of name calling and general slander.

Originally posted by RealityisanIllusion
reply to post by Fitzgibbon

 

Ahhhh, as you can see, I am pretty new. I wasn't aware of any of that. I just thought it was an interesting angle to use his own opinions against him for a little bit of levity on a thread that began to deteriorate because of name calling and general slander.

Yeah. 13 steenking points. I shouldn't even be bothering with you.

The problem with the dynamic here is that absolutes are usually drawn by those with an axe to grind about Freemasonry. As a Freemason of 7 years and in the officer line of progression in my Lodge, I find it more than a little vexing when assertions are made without a scintilla of supporting evidence. For me, it's allows me to understand how a Jew in 1930's Germany must have felt with various and sundry wild accusations coming out and any attempt to suggest that said accusations didn't stand even a moment's scrutiny was met with derision.

Part of me wishes that Freemasonry was as sexy as its detractors would have the uninitiated believe. However, the truth of Freemasonry is that it's about being a good man, trying to improve yourself and doing good things for your community and mankind in general. Not very sexy. Not likely to get you a co-star like Nicole Kidman. But the simple fact is that Masons in Lodges all around the world focus their efforts on making the world a better place for all its inhabitants. Full stop. End of message. Anything different is a message being sold to you by someone with an agenda. Beware that agenda. You seldom get the full picture of where it's coming from.

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon

Originally posted by RealityisanIllusion
reply to post by Fitzgibbon

 

Yeah. 13 steenking points. I shouldn't even be bothering with you.

The problem with the dynamic here is that absolutes are usually drawn by those with an axe to grind about Freemasonry. As a Freemason of 7 years and in the officer line of progression in my Lodge, I find it more than a little vexing when assertions are made without a scintilla of supporting evidence.

Well, I did get docked 20 points for too much quoting I guess, something like that anyway.

I have studied the Masons for several years. I would really like to join. The problem is I have a past that I feel may put me in a bad light with th brothers. I guess for the time being I'll just have to help people on my own until I have repented enough to feel worthy of the craft.
Hey, maybe sometimes people really are just there to help, and there really isn't an underlying cause. Imagine that!!!!

[edit on 1-9-2008 by RealityisanIllusion]

[edit on 1-9-2008 by RealityisanIllusion]

Originally posted by RealityisanIllusion
reply to post by Fitzgibbon

 

I have studied the Masons for several years. I would really like to join. The problem is I have a past that I feel may put me in a bad light with th brothers. I guess for the time being I'll just have to help people on my own until I have repented enough to feel worthy of the craft.
Hey, maybe sometimes people really are just there to help, and there really isn't an underlying cause. Imagine that!!!!

Well, keep yer stick on the ice. It's unfortunate that you have some baggage that concerns you. When you think it's far enough past, sound out a local Lodge if you're still interested and be honest about the circumstances. Odds are it'll be less of a sticking point than you think. In either case, the important thing in all of this is that you're doing things that are improving your local society. In the great scheme of things, that's the most important thing.

reply to post by Manasseh



I wanted to address this post first before I read further. About masons keeping "95%" of the charity money -

Last year masons donated $525 million to charity. 58% of that money went to the general public, meaning that it benefitted anyone who needed it. The remainder went to masonic charities, primarily Shriner's Hospitals for children.

In addition, our books are open. We are a non-profit (but NOT tax-exempt) organization and our lodge accounting is open for examination.

I also just received my quarterly state freemason magazine. Here are some of the highlights:

- 'Illinois Masons Curing Cancer' benefit is being held. ALL monies donated will be given to the University of Chicago Cancer Research Foundation and the Kathleen Warble Foundation

- Golf Outing raises $6,774.08 for the Illinois Masonic Student Assistance Program for drug abuse prevention

- Rainbow Girls of Illinois donate $6000 to the Illinois Child Identification Program

- Special activities and events were held for the children living in the Illinois Masonic Children's Homes in La Grange and Murphysboro. This is an orphanage for children.

- In the last 12 months Illinois masons have donated 1170 units of blood. The number of lodges participating this year was 62, up from 49 last year.

- In the third year of the Illinois Child ID Program a total of 21,600 children were photographed, videotaped, fingerprinted and the ID packages were given to parents absolutely free.

- The Coins for Children program purchased learning kits, tables and playground equipment for Loraine Elementary School. The Clinton lodge paid for a concrete pad and ramps for skateboarders, and Pana lodge donated $500 for computers for the Youth Department of the local library.

- Madison lodge held Rally for the Troops, raising $3700 for sending items requested by our troops overseas.

- Mazon lodge awarded four scholarships to high school seniors for $2350.



Anyway... blah blah blah... we don't keep 95% of our charity donations. That is a lie.

reply to post by emsed1


The part I found particularly ammusing was the part about the Masons paying their members. Just another uninformed/misinformed individual upset about not being automatically included in something.

reply to post by Fitzgibbon


I was told by a friend who is a Mason that it shouldn't affect my application, but it really is mostly a sticking point for me. Probably not something that they would really care about. It's funny, if I was weak minded enough to accept the theories of many others, that I would worry about what a bunch of evil people think about me. The issue really is that I would like to be able to associate myself with a wonderful group, that now has associate groups for women, young men, and young girls, which is really not exclusionary. My purpose for waiting is to ensure that I'm not behind the curve on what is expected of me. I hope that makes some assemblance of sense.

reply to post by emsed1


Also, and I should have stated this in my previous reply to you, I have personal experiences with the Shriner's hospitals. In the 60's, my older brother was born with what I believe is called club foot, or pidgeon toe, not sure of the actual medical slang, but he was treated, and cured at a Shriner's hospital. More recently, my Uncle's son was admitted for the same affliction. He isn't healed yet but is well on his way to being so. In both of these cases, all medical expenses and any boarding expenses were and are currently being paid for by the Shriners. With all of this in mind, and it being actual fact, not something I happend to find on a koock site on Google, how can these Men be considered evil?


[edit on 1-9-2008 by RealityisanIllusion]

Originally posted by RealityisanIllusion
reply to post by Fitzgibbon

 

My purpose for waiting is to ensure that I'm not behind the curve on what is expected of me. I hope that makes some assemblance of sense.

Yeah. It does. In the great scheme of things, we are the harshest judges of our actions and inactions. From the sounds of things, in everyday life you're a credit to your community and that far and away is the most important consideration. Join Masonry if you think that you can be an even greater credit to your community by working with other like-minded individuals. If it's not for you, no sweat. Keep doing the right thing.

That's all that really matters.

Originally posted by RealityisanIllusion
reply to post by emsed1

 

With all of this in mind, and it being actual fact, not something I happend to find on a koock site on Google, how can these Men be considered evil?

Because there are those in this world who refuse to believe that experiences like yours wouldn't be done without an agenda of some kind. From their perspective, it's always much easier to believe the worst of human nature than the best.

i,am so sick and tired of people who are anti-masons saying that masons are antichrist, worship the devil or some other stupid conspiracy, its about time everybody or every born again jesus christ faker jump on some other bandwagon and leave ABOVE TOP SECRET for some real issues, soon as some crack head idoit says im born again and i found jesus or God then their no longer a mason , its ashame and all of you who do that need to stay off of that meth, in this world its live or let other people live their own life and stop trying to save people who you think need saving its all of you boneheads who think your so holy and everybody have to follow you PEACE IM OUT

reply to post by Fitzgibbon


Yes, it's hard to believe that a person would sacrifice of himself to give to another. What an amazing concept. It kind of reminds me of this guy I read about in this really big book my Grandparents kept on the living room table. What was it again? Oh yeah, the Bible.

Originally posted by RealityisanIllusion
[The part I found particularly ammusing was the part about the Masons paying their members.

In the interests of complete transparency, my lodge does pay a few of the members a minimal amount for the time they dedicate to the lodge, specifically the lodge Secretary and the Brother who handles booking the lodge for outside events. The amounts payed are very small, I believe the Secretary gets $250 a year, and both donate their salaries to charity.