And people wonder why Russia is "disturbed" by actions taken by the U.S.?

www.yahoo.com...

100 miles from the Russian border. Now if Russia was to try to do the same thing to us, we'd be freaking out just as much if not more so than Russia is...

excellent video, you exposed the truth about the imperialist fascist baby killer US empire , that it is

Maybe the Russians shouldn't have treated their neighbors so badly that they would actually approve a U.S. military presence 100 miles away from the Russian border.

Originally posted by ufo reality
www.yahoo.com...

100 miles from the Russian border. Now if Russia was to try to do the same thing to us, we'd be freaking out just as much if not more so than Russia is...

I personally think Russia should be more concerned that the U.S. and the rest of Europe is "disturbed" by their actions. Unless they think going back to a Cold War like era is going to benefit them in any way.

Frankly, I'm sick of Russia's non-stop empty grandstanding, and don't care if they are upset we signed a missile defense deal with Poland either.

Which brings up another point... if the missile defense "Star Wars" systems supposedly don't work according the Dems, then why does Russia care if we put them in Poland?

Originally posted by wutone
Maybe the Russians shouldn't have treated their neighbors so badly that they would actually approve a U.S. military presence 100 miles away from the Russian border.

How have Russians treated their neighbors exactly? And don't say "invaded" Georgia - the ABM project was in the works long before that.

Originally posted by maloy

How have Russians treated their neighbors exactly? And don't say "invaded" Georgia - the ABM project was in the works long before that.

Why not say they invaded Georgia. It's exactly what they did. Georgia is a sovereign state. Russia sent troops into Georgia to attack the Georgian military. Yes, they invaded Georgia.

What does the ABM project have to do with it anyway?

Originally posted by jamie83
I personally think Russia should be more concerned that the U.S. and the rest of Europe is "disturbed" by their actions.

What actions would that be? U.S. and NATO have been creating a buffer zone around Russia since about 1998 - long before Putin came to power. Back then Russia didn't even try to put itself on the global political stage.

And what exactly is Europe or U.S. to be concerned about? NATO has been treating Russia with hostility long before Georgia. In fact part of the reason why Russia intervened in Georgia is because of NATO's advances.

Originally posted by jamie83
Unless they think going back to a Cold War like era is going to benefit them in any way.

Seems like its a benefit to the U.S. The terrorists are no longer scary - and people are discontent with economy. And CNN says - here come the bad old commies - and everyone is pissing their pants again. Once again the people will be too happy to have Congress dump useless billions into the pentagon.

Originally posted by jamie83
Frankly, I'm sick of Russia's non-stop empty grandstanding

How do you think the world feels about America's War on Terror? Here is a clue - the world doesn't exactly share in Bush's enthusiasm or your patriotism.

Originally posted by jamie83
and don't care if they are upset we signed a missile defense deal with Poland either.

Who are you going to defend Poland from? Iran, as innitially stated? Good luck. I am sure evil gremlins the world over are just waiting to nuke good old Poland.

Originally posted by jamie83
Which brings up another point... if the missile defense "Star Wars" systems supposedly don't work according the Dems, then why does Russia care if we put them in Poland?

Because it is the first step. The next step would be to replace these obsolete systems with new systems. And then add some NATO bases here and there. And then add some offensive missiles.

By your logic why does U.S. care that Russia intervenes in Georgia? Georgia has no oil, and is not the 51st state.

reply to post by maloy


I don't know your age, so I don't know if you where alive when this happened, but you might want to go back in history and look at what the Soviet Union did to keep other Soverign nations they had controll of, in line with they're doctrine. Stalin up to but not including Beshnev where known for whole sale murder of the populace to force obedience. Putin seems to think he needs to roll back history to rebuild the old union. He has delusions!
Oh, for particular history. Look up the Soviet invasion of Hungary. They tried for freedom and got the good intensions of the Soviet Union up close and personal!!!
Zindo

Originally posted by jamie83
Why not say they invaded Georgia.

Because for starters they didn't. Are Russian tanks in Tbilisi and Saakashvili's head on a stake? How is that an invasion? Russia merely intervened to force a stop to the bloodshed started by Georgia.

Originally posted by jamie83
It's exactly what they did.

Did Saakashvili tell you that? Or CNN? Or both maybe? Well if that ain't the epitomy of credibility.

Originally posted by jamie83
Georgia is a sovereign state.

And so was Serbia, Iraq and Afghanistan. Germany was one too in 1945.

Originally posted by jamie83
Russia sent troops into Georgia to attack the Georgian military.

Not before Georgian troops went into Tskhinvalli with guns and artillery blazing. And guess who was in Tskhinvalli? Civilians, civilians, and more civlians - that's about it.

Originally posted by jamie83
Yes, they invaded Georgia.

No. They beat back the aggressive Georgian military and reestablished a ceasefire in the breakaway republic. They then established a buffer zone, and began an orderly withdrawal.

No one but the U.S. has actually invaded anyone in the last decade.

Intervention and invasion are two different things.

Originally posted by jamie83
What does the ABM project have to do with it anyway?

Same thing that NATO has to do with it - the West is playing Cold War games with a nonexistant enemy. Russia couldn't be more thrilled.

Originally posted by ZindoDoone
I don't know your age, so I don't know if you where alive when this happened, but you might want to go back in history and look at what the Soviet Union did to keep other Soverign nations they had controll of, in line with they're doctrine.

What does Soviet Union have to do with this?

I don't know your age, but if you actually looked at Russian politics you would realize that Communism is long gone. It was Russians whoput an end to communism (under which they suffered too). It was Russians that kept communism away in a violent coup attempt in 1993. It was Russians that embraced the U.S.-style capitalism.

I just happened to live in Russia/Ukraine when all these events were taking place. So don't mind me.

Originally posted by ZindoDoone
Stalin up to but not including Beshnev where known for whole sale murder of the populace to force obedience.

What do they have to do with anything? Why not bring Hitler into the equation? Or Pol Pot? Or Mao? Or Ivan the Terrible? Or Alexander the Great? Don't go digging in your history book too much - Russia has changed in the last 20 years in more ways than you can imagine.

Originally posted by ZindoDoone
Putin seems to think he needs to roll back history to rebuild the old union.

How so? Because he restored control over Russian resource to Russia?

Americans are delusional. Research Putin's policies and reforms, and then come back and talk about what he is doing. And I am not talking about wikipedia - I am talking about actual research.

Originally posted by ZindoDoone
Oh, for particular history. Look up the Soviet invasion of Hungary.

Look up China's invasion of Vietnam. Or Germany's invasion of Russia. Or U.S. invasion of Mexico. Or British invasion of Crimea. Or Persian invasion of Greece.

What the heck does this have to do with what is happening today? Nazis are gone from Germany, Soviets are gone from Russia, and the trojans are gone from Greece.

Reply to Jaime83:

In regards to your statement:

Which brings up another point... if the missile defense "Star Wars" systems supposedly don't work according the Dems, then why does Russia care if we put them in Poland?

and this statement as well:

What does the ABM project have to do with it anyway?

It appears that you do not have an understanding of USA missile systems, which if you had bothered to do a few minutes of research before picking up another beer and tuning into WWF,E,X or whatever it is now, you would understand that "Star Wars" as a program no longer exists, the missile systems that Dubya wants to place in the countries surrounding Russia are primarily Patriot Batteries, Anit-Ballistic-Missile systems of some questionable accuracy.

It's really about oil son, and who will control the flow of oil from the Caucuses and Iran to western europe. Except the USA forgot one thing, their Military is MADE IN China, Mexico, Malaysia, Taiwan, and numerous other countries. The U.S. Military in all actuality has enough ammunition and supplies to go no longer than 30 days of active warfighting (current state) before it will run into 'shortages' and rely strictly on the Nuclear Option. We the people of the USA no longer manufacture our own military, we outsourced it. Go figure.


Reply to Zindodoone and those like him:
Well Zindo I remember history well ... how does the USA keep it's allies in line? Establish Military bases? Take over the local economy? Turn the local children into prostitutes to service our servicepeople?

Up until the very moment G.W. Bush came to power Saddam Hussein of Iraq was his best friend ... and GW decided to turn his back on him and allow the invasion of Kuwait because as every Presidential hopeful knows, a WAR President is a Historical President, all others are losers.

Don't try to tell me that the US did not know about the invasion plan either, the US was extremely well vested inside Saddams intelligence machine, how on earth do you think the US Forces knew where to look to find all the 'secret' documents?

Fact is, our SUV driving, beer swilling, LCD Widescreen TV, 3000 Channel Cable watching, gotta have it NOW! society is treating the rest of the world like a worn out door mat. How soon until we invade more countries (with oil) so you can continue to vote for the same lying scum that you already voted for in the last election? You all sit here, my fellow Americans, and cry about the NWO and how they take control ... well they take control because you really don't give a rats ass.

Consider this Mr. Patriot ... little children are beaten daily to make your shirts in India and Pakistan, that a healthy percentage of the gasoline you use comes directly from the blood spilled over the last hundreds of years of the local peoples worldwide who fought against 'American Invaders'. Remember Lawrence of Arabia? Faisal gave the west oil rights in exchange for a modern military and control over the other tribes of the arabian penninsula. Your fresh fruits and vegetables are shipped, literally, from places such as Argentina, Chile, Central America, Philipines and Mexico, people that do not enjoy such a grand standard of living making only pennies per day picking your food for you.

Who the hell are y'all that you can say you 'earned' that lifestyle when the last great generation fought WWII? Now shut up, get into your Lazyboy Extreme, drink your beer and go back to watching Faux News.

Pardon me. I believe T.H. lawrence was "BRITISH"??? As far as being a patriot and refering to my drinking habits or my TV viewing. laughable at best! I was refering to the Soviet Union in my post. I didn't know I needed to be all encompassing and balance the history I was refering to in a PC manner to be incorrect in my statement. Please forgive me for being so foolish as to believe my post is so insignificant in its truth. I am truely sorry that the US has committed so many atrocities that everyone is fleeing our borders. Its going to be so lonely here in the US with every one LEAVING the country because we are so vicious with our populace. Please...I cry your pardon, Master of the Politicaly Correct!!!
Zindo

As Putin once said that the collapse of the Soviet Union was the worst geopolitical disaster of the 20th century. He tends to remedy that.

What do you find wrong with what he said?

It was the biggest geopolitical disasters of the century. He never said that he thinks Soviet Union should have remained in place. He was referring to how reckless the disintegration took place and how much bloodshed and instability it caused.

Care to refute that?

[edit on 30-8-2008 by maloy]

Originally posted by maloy

Originally posted by wutone
Maybe the Russians shouldn't have treated their neighbors so badly that they would actually approve a U.S. military presence 100 miles away from the Russian border.

How have Russians treated their neighbors exactly? And don't say "invaded" Georgia - the ABM project was in the works long before that.

They are annexing a territory that is basically part of Georgia.......Russia is basically stealing land and did invade another nation........I hope thats not them being good neighbors as I would hate to see them be bad ones.

Originally posted by DavidWright
They are annexing a territory that is basically part of Georgia.......Russia is basically stealing land and did invade another nation........I hope thats not them being good neighbors as I would hate to see them be bad ones.

Did you not read what I said?

NATO has be reproaching Russia long before Georgia.

Originally posted by maloy

Originally posted by DavidWright
They are annexing a territory that is basically part of Georgia.......Russia is basically stealing land and did invade another nation........I hope thats not them being good neighbors as I would hate to see them be bad ones.

Did you not read what I said?

NATO has be reproaching Russia long before Georgia.

So a bully gets bullied and cries to the world that they are the victim.

Why is Poland getting a missle shield? I'm sure they dont care about wayward missle hitting another country so much as they are scrared to death of Russian Aggression.

The excuse that America is provoking and Britain and NATO are provoking Them seems to be this all encompassing, good for all defense excuses.

Russia has always been an aggressor and are being one now. Quite simply, they want to be relevant in the world again.......or they are scared to death.

Originally posted by DavidWright
So a bully gets bullied and cries to the world that they are the victim.

It didn't cry to the world. It reminded Europe where its energy comes from.

Originally posted by DavidWright
Why is Poland getting a missle shield?

Surely not because the majority of people won't - seeing how they don't.

I think it has something to do with political prostitution.

Originally posted by DavidWright
I'm sure they dont care about wayward missle hitting another country so much as they are scrared to death of Russian Aggression.

Yes - shivering in their pants. There are several cures for paranoia (not that the Polish are actually afraid) - and neither included hosting foreign military assets on one's territory.

And what Russian aggression? Quiet a ubiquitous term these days. If you take what Russia is doing in Georgia into world perspective - then U.S. is far far more aggressive today that Russia ever was in the last 50 years.

Originally posted by DavidWright
The excuse that America is provoking and Britain and NATO are provoking Them seems to be this all encompassing, good for all defense excuses.

Pot meet kettle.

Originally posted by DavidWright
Russia has always been an aggressor and are being one now.

Wow your proof is ground shattering. Care to back that up?

Originally posted by DavidWright
Quite simply, they want to be relevant in the world again

As opposed to whom? To U.S.? To China? Every large power wants to be relevant, and to some extent is.

Originally posted by DavidWright
or they are scared to death.

Of what?

Georgia went into a civil war. It was just like the south wanted to break away from the north, they went to war. This would be like Britain coming over full force to help the south. Russia if truly wanted to end the bloodshed could of used a diplomatic approach instead of going all out. It was truly and invasion.

Originally posted by ufo reality
www.yahoo.com...

100 miles from the Russian border. Now if Russia was to try to do the same thing to us, we'd be freaking out just as much if not more so than Russia is...

I agree. But if it tuns out that people in this administration gave the go-ahead for Georgia to murder civilians in South Ossetia, I expect the American people to drag everyone out from the offices at the White House, string them up by a testicle or ovary, and spit upon them. I know it is a lofty goal, but I am disgusted by the blood that remains on our hands, and we do nothing.