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Kremlin announces that South Ossetia will join 'one united Russian state'

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posted on Aug, 30 2008 @ 06:15 PM
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Originally posted by mybigunit
Hmm at first Russia went in there to protect them from Georgia. Then they announced that they wanted to recognize Ossetias independence.


What's wrong with that? Remeber Kosovo and Bosnia?



Originally posted by mybigunit
Then it comes out and says that they are going to be part of the "Russian Superstate"


Did Russia really say "superstate"? When was that?



Originally posted by mybigunit
Ok man you just keep telling yourself and others there is nothing to this but it sounds like you need to take a step out and look in because it doesnt look good at all.


Kosovo independence didn't look good to Russia at all. Did NATO care? Did anyone who is now blaming Russia care?



Originally posted by mybigunit
If they want to create their own country separate from Georgia and separate from Russia we NEED to recognize it for we do with other countries like Israel and Kosovo.


The Western politicians don't see this need aparantly. So they really have no say about what happened to S Ossetia. Had the West recognized S Ossetia, than perhaps everyone would have agreed to a UN sanctioned independence free from foreign influence.

I would have preferred that too, but with a lack of alternative this conflict should be ended once and for all. Let S Ossetia do what it wants. If it wants to join Russia - so be it.



Originally posted by mybigunit
But Im sorry I dont buy that the citizens want to be annexed into Russia


Do you know the story behind S Ossetia? I do. I have lived in a city with 30% Ossetian population, and I've been to Sukhumi a few times since the war started in 1992. Have you seen the war documentary I posted in another thread (I can give you a link)? S Ossetia ASKED Russia to come in and help them on August 8th. S Ossetians welcomed Russian troops on the street. S Ossetians celebrated independence with Ossetian and Russian flags. S Ossetians then invited Russia to create a military based to protect them from Georgia.

Kokoity - the pro Russian president of S Ossetia won 90% of the votes in a referendum. His publicized agenda was to eventually join Russia.

I don't know what other type of proof you want.

Edit: here is the link to the documentary I talked about

www.abovetopsecret.com...'



Originally posted by mybigunit
Im sorry. Yea so did all the other country "annexed" after WWII.


History needs to be remembered - yet it shouldn't be a basis for prejudice.




Originally posted by mybigunit
But he should get them ready in case Russia invades a country like Ukraine or Georgia as a whole.


Why would Russia do that? "Restore Soviet Union" is not a valid answer given that communists aren't in power.

By the same degree of validity I can state that U.S. wants to invade Phillipines, Pakistan, Venezuela, Cuba, and Indonesia.



Originally posted by mybigunit
I dont even feel as of now Russia is a threat but the moment I see Russia going into other countries with the duty of "Annexing" them then yes you and your government will be on my personal watch list. Otherwise no Russia is no threat. On your last paragraph I agree BUT this doesnt only pertain to the US which is what you insinuate. This applies to ALL countries including Russia.


Very true. Russia's isn't blameless at all - but then it's not casting the stones here.

I think we all know that Russia isn't a superpower and that it hardly sets the pace for the world to follow. But U.S. does set the pace - so Russia's actions are reactionary. I am not saying that Russia will stop if U.S. changes its foreign policy - but it is very plausible. Russia will not stop as long as the U.S. war machine is rolling. And personally I think it should - if only because Russians don't need anymore wars.

Russia is wrong on some levels, but there is no indication that anyone is threatened, even Georgia. Saakashvili is still in power, Gori and Senaki are back under Georgian control, and Russia is standing down. It didn't go to Tbilisi. Russia has shown restraint - something the U.S. hasn't shown in many years. Yes Russia craved to oust that Georgian maniac, yet it didn't.

Georgia remains sovereign. Tskhinvali is quiet. Bloodshed had stopped. Why is the West so upset?

[edit on 30-8-2008 by maloy]




posted on Aug, 30 2008 @ 06:26 PM
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reply to post by maloy
 


I actually think we are agreeing on most of this...I dont feel that we are communicating good. I agree I dont think our government should be getting in the business of places like Kosovo or Bosnia or Israel. We need to leave that alone. I feel stupid battles or wars like that is what builds the hatred towards us today. Your right NATO had nothing to say and this is part of the imperialistic American agenda that referred to that I want to get rid of.

But with that being said we dont need an imperialistic Russia also. Yes we should all know our history and learn from it. Hitler was allowed to go way to far before anyone jumped in and by then it was to late. Im not comparing Russia to Hitler at all what I am saying is that if people sit back and let bad agendas go for to long then they get to the point to where it is very hard to change. Hitler almost won WW2 and if it wasnt for stupid choices on his part he probably would of. America is doing stupid things and thats why people like me and good people like Ron Paul scream out the way we do. But this also goes for Russia. As a Russian you to should be concerned with what your government is doing. Maybe not in this case this may actually be overblown. But maybe next its another small country...then another...then Ukraine..then what? This is what Im saying. Just like people here need to take the local news and propaganda with a grain of salt so too do you guys. This is my point.



posted on Aug, 30 2008 @ 06:43 PM
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Originally posted by mybigunit
I agree I dont think our government should be getting in the business of places like Kosovo or Bosnia or Israel. We need to leave that alone.


True. But the fact is that U.S. did get into the business of Serbia. Russia warned it back then. What is done cannot be undone. Do you expect all the other governments in the world to sit by while U.S. goes about its business (and places itself into everyone else's business too)? It simply cannot work that way. You cannot reasonably expect Russia to knock it off, while U.S. is still doing it.

Right or wrong - Russia follows, not leads.



Originally posted by mybigunit
But with that being said we dont need an imperialistic Russia also.


I care to dispute that Russia is acting imperialistically. Sure it's not sitting still, but "annexing S Ossetia and nothing else in the last 8 years" hardly an empire make. I don't know where Russia is heading, but jumping to preconceived conclusions won't solve any problems.



Originally posted by mybigunit
America is doing stupid things and thats why people like me and good people like Ron Paul scream out the way we do.


Good to know. The question is can the U.S. foreign policy be changed? I don't know, and I am sure you know better than me. I would like to believe that a change in the U.S. will mirror change around the world.



Originally posted by mybigunit
But this also goes for Russia.


Yes it does. I do not vote for Putin or Medvedev and I do not support some of their policies. Russia seems to be in the midst of a nationalistic stage in its formation as a new nation. I have a hope that this will pass, and that progress will be made.



Originally posted by mybigunit
As a Russian you to should be concerned with what your government is doing.


Believe me I am. If you read my posts in "Georgia War Updates" section you would know. What I try to do is project an understanding of why Russia is doing what it's doing.



Originally posted by mybigunit
But maybe next its another small country...then another...then Ukraine..then what?


Believe me - if the Kremlin starts a war with Ukraine, Russians would not follow. The generals can very possibly refuse to wage war on their own people (and Ukrainians are "our" people - not as a way of ownership, but history, culture, and traditions). Many generals resigned during the Chechen war - and a huge number of Russians criticized Yeltsin's actions there.

At this point war with Ukraine or anyone else is not in the picture.



Originally posted by mybigunit
Just like people here need to take the local news and propaganda with a grain of salt so too do you guys.


The majority of Russians have grown used to distrusting media and government. Communism and 90's did teach people a lesson - that government's bull# is easy to see for what it is.

That is why I am not saying that Russia is right. I am merely saying that Russia isn't doing something that others aren't, and trying to show how Russia views this conflict.



posted on Sep, 1 2008 @ 11:50 PM
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reply to post by LiquidMirage
 

First of all Georgia ATTACKED South Ossetia in order to try and take it over and killed soldiers and 2000 civilians right at the start. I know for fact, my aunt lives there and told us per phone everything that was going on, plus some interviews I have seen on USA television that slipped threw the cracks. Russia came in there to protect South Ossetia and kicked Georgia back into the stone age were hey belong because they can't exist with civilized country. Georgia is backed by the USA which we know is controlled by Corporations which control the USA government and all it's actions, including 9/11 being an inside job and blaming so called Terrorist in order to get us into a war to take over the middle east and put in puppet governments like the one in Georgia to do the Evil USA corporate controlled bidding.
Good job Russia, and keep putting your foot up NATO's ass.



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