Kremlin announces that South Ossetia will join 'one united Russian state'

"They do. Which is why the "Party of Regions" won the majority of the Parliament seats. The only way Yuschenko was able to hold on to power was through a tricky political alliance with Timoshenko and her party. Now Timoshenko is drafting over to the opposition side, leaving Yuschenko and his minority party by themselves.

If things go the way they are - Yuschenko and his party stand no chance in the next election (Presidential and Parliamentary). The next political fight would be between Timoshenko and Yanukovich - that is unless they form an alliance. "

What a mess... lol

Well if your really a Ukranian citizen then i guess you do have a say in this.
and its a legit say.

Your govt sounds like a typical democracy tho, im sorry.

reply to post by maloy


People should at least be consistent. I was born and have lived in the United States my whole life. The majority of the Southern states held referendums and chose to leave the Union, and they were militarily conquered and economically destroyed, and forced back into the Union at gun point.

Texas was an independent nation that chose to enter the Union, and shortly after chose to leave the Union (and was forced back).

Hawaii was robbed of its independence and rammed into the United States Union.

The US invaded and destroyed Iraq, all the way on the other side of the world for no reason (except oil), and still occupies the nation of Iraq today.

Georgia and South Ossetia are on the border of Russia. Russian peace keeping troops were killed by invading Georgian troops. Georgians broke the cease fire they had previously agreed too. Maybe Russia went too far? Maybe, but certainly Georgia went too far in their actions.

If people want to live together peacfully in a smaller group, I don't see why states shoudn't support them, even the mother states. If nations gave food and technology to each other out of love, instead of weapons and money to buy weapons to each other out of fear, then the world would be a much nicer place.

I would rather live in a world of smaller states, less government and more culture. Many Ossetians may not mind being an independent state, but with an unfriendly Georgia at their throat, and with Ossetians being ethnically Russian, how can you blame them for not wanting to join the rest of Russia?

The transition shouldn't be that hard. Both states use the Ruble as currency rather then the Lari. So it would probably be harder to intergrate them into Georgia then Russia and if force would be needed to intergrate them into Georgia I'm going to go with consensus of the population over the use of force any day. However I would like to see international peacekeepers there rather then Russian or Georgian ones and a democratic vote before it happens. If that were to happen I would be completely ok with it.

reply to post by LiquidMirage


yeah because imperialism is bad right? America never does that right?

from wikipedia..
The term imperialism was coined in the mid-1800s.[1] It was first widely applied to the US by the American Anti-Imperialist League, founded in 1898 to oppose the Spanish-American War and the subsequent post-war military occupation and brutalities committed by US forces in the Philippines.


www.usatoday.com...
from usa today...
The United States has been an empire since at least 1803, when Thomas Jefferson purchased the Louisiana Territory. Throughout the 19th century, what Jefferson called the "empire of liberty" expanded across the continent. When U.S. power stretched from "sea to shining sea," the American empire moved abroad, acquiring colonies ranging from Puerto Rico and the Philippines to Hawaii and Alaska.

reply to post by guyopitz


Yup, you're right. The US is quite simply an empire.

If they weren't, they wouldn't be trying to make claims to the waterways north of Canada. (Which by the way exist between our islands).

They want to expand their power. This is what empires do.

reply to post by mistermeow


I agree 100% with what you said. It makes me sick how people come on here, and bash Russia, with what seems like almost NO IDEA of what really happened. Please people, do your homework, Georgia started this. Russia is doing what it needs to to protect its citizens. If they want to become part of Russia, who the hell is the US / NATO and the rest of these crazies to tell them they can't?

The US is playing a dangerous game....and if the Dutch intel reports are right about them attacking IRAN soon, My God, I can't even begin to think how horrible our lives are going to be. Sometimes I think these guys think it's a computer game - like we're just having a round of Unreal Tournament, and pulling out the "Redeemer" for some fun......

What have I been saying? The new czars have judged rightly that we are so bogged down in Iraq and Afghanistan. that our military is stretched too thin and is exhausted and so cannot respond to their aggression. So... what is going to happen? They are going to continue to cultivate breakaway regions and reabsorb and try and reconstitute the the historical Russian empire.

the Georgia President Saakashvili...was denied entry into NATO because of the tensions the two independence minded Republics would keep causing for the foreseeable future.


so, Saakashvili, with the aid and training of both 2000 Israeli independent contractors And 1000 US Marines...decided to bring the independence minded republics under the Georgian military and political control.


Saakashvili, looks like a replay of Saddan Hussein in Iraq, with the USA or CIA calling the shots and the 'selected' leader doing as instructed...
--- history is indeed repeating, but not as some posters see it... ---

the failure of this campaign may very well lead to the ouster of the present 'elected' president of Georgia...
at least he probably won't be tried and hung like Saddam was for following orders; to make war with Iran for almost a decade, use gas WMDs, etc etc

reply to post by St Udio


Can you elaborate more on 2000 Israeli contractors? See, army of Georgia has 32000 people. 32000/2000 - on each 16 soldiers one instructor? Add 1000 US personal and it sounds even more crazy.
At least try to apply some analysis. By the way, what is the source of this?
I am asking it since i saw one source using the same 2000 Israelis. But to trust it as a reliable source ..... So i hope you found it somewhere else.
By the way, if those autonomic republics wanted independance - why they now so willingly join Russia federation? Maybe it was the point from the start. Chechnia also did not want to be in Russia. Georgia should annex them then, if to follow this logic.

Now my argument has been if the citizens of Ossetia wants to start their own country then who are we to say they cant. Didnt we and dont we to this day recognize countries like Kosovo, Israel, Taiwan, and other countries that have declared their own independence? What is the difference here?

Now this news has changed my argument because its not Ossetia creating their own country it is Russia gobbling up Ossetia. This is different and now America DOES need to pay attention. If Ossetia wanted to become its own country we should not say a damn thing but this does change things.

Now in regards to the dumb comment above "So now people want George to do something now" Yea this is the exact reason you dont bog yourself down in worthless wars. Because when the real threats DO come you wont have the troops or resources to take on the real threat.

Originally posted by mybigunit
Now this news has changed my argument because its not Ossetia creating their own country it is Russia gobbling up Ossetia.

Once again - no one is annexing or gobbling up anything. The article mentions nothing of the sort.

Ossetia is independent. What is does next is up to Ossetia to decide. If the majority of the population there wants to join Russia - who the hell is the West to tell them they can't? This is a concept of self-determination. It can decide to stay independent, or it can decide that it has more economic and peaceful prospects if it joins Russia.

Russia is not forcing the decision on anyone here. The Ossetian population voted 90% in favor of close ties with Russia. What is the West's problem? Why is it that difficult to understand why someone would want to be part of Russia? Because people in the West are brainwashed to think Russia is a 3rd world empire?

Originally posted by mybigunit
This is different and now America DOES need to pay attention.

It is paying attention. A bit too much attention. Maybe paying attention to America's own wars would be more useful.

Originally posted by mybigunit
If Ossetia wanted to become its own country we should not say a damn thing but this does change things.

U.S refuses to recognize the independence of S Ossetia and Abkhazia. U.S. even refuses to hold an official referendum there. As far as the West is concerned - to them there is no S Ossetia.

Originally posted by mybigunit
Now in regards to the dumb comment above "So now people want George to do something now" Yea this is the exact reason you dont bog yourself down in worthless wars.

What would you want Bush to do - had he had the full U.S. military at his disposal? Start a war with Russia because of a tiny third world country rules by a reckless puppet? Now that won't be worthless now would it?

Originally posted by mybigunit
Because when the real threats DO come you wont have the troops or resources to take on the real threat.

How do you tell real threats from imaginery threats? Was Taliban a real threat? Was Saddam? Was North Korea? Is Iran? Is the Axis of Evil a real threat? Do you let the White house press secretary tell you who the real threat is? Or do you let the media tell you what a real threat is?

You think Russia is a real threat. Why? Because of what you see on CNN or read in Newsweek? How do you know you aren't being lied to (again)? How do you know that you are being told the entire story? There is nothing wrong in having imagined enemies (no better way to build some nationalism) - but what is wrong is when your government actually starts a conflict with that imagined enemy.


Regardless of how many lies we have all seen and heard, and how many useless wars were waged - many still can't tell a real threat apart from a perceived threat or imaginary threat. Most offen the threat to one's country doesn't come from the outside but from inside.


[edit on 30-8-2008 by maloy]

Originally posted by LiquidMirage


Despite the refusal of some to acknowledge the fact that Russia had imperialistic motivations to invade Georgia, Russia has announced what the rest of us have known all along. I believe that the annexing of South Ossetia is just the first step in Russia’s return to their cold war status. The rest of Eastern Europe better watch their backs because I think Ukraine will be next. If not Ukraine then it will be someone else, but mark my words, Russia is not done with its imperialism!

www.timesonline.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

neither is the u.s done with imperialism... What russia is doing was provoked by Georgia to begin with... had georgia not attacked south ossetia this would never have happened.. I applaude this action.. now if Georgia decides to attack again they will be attacking Russia.. not just a breakaway province..

reply to post by maloy
Very,good point Maloy The Georgians with thier short sighted plans gave the Osstians just what they have wanted all along independence from them.

Exactly! I love how we in the U.S love to throw the word democracy around... I doubt most americans know the true meaning of a democracy... a democracy is one where the peoples will is reflected in there govement not the other way around..if the south ossetian people wish to be part of Russia then so what? This is what democracy is about..

[edit on 30-8-2008 by thefreepatriot]

I love all the talk about puppet governments.

Russia has a newly elected president but has Putin running the show

Is not Russia......a puppet government then?

Self Determination ..

They can join or be what ever they want to be.

Is there a political motive for Russia? No doubt, there always is. Just as there is for the West to support Georgia. In the end though, Russia won and we let Georgia down .. a silent battle between the old Soviets and the Western World was lost.

It's a consolidation of power, Russia is building it's power up a little bit every year.. 20 years down the road, Russia will be a massive power player in the World and will have reclaimed the title Super Power.

I think that it is inevitable that eventually there will have to be an actual war between the two countries... or perhaps not... how long will the threat of assured mutual destruction keep us from war?

Originally posted by DavidWright
Russia has a newly elected president but has Putin running the show

Ah - an "expert" on Russian politics.

Please explain what the Russian constitution states on President becoming a prime minister.

Please explain what roles the Prime Minister has and how Putin is or is not adhering to them.

Please explain why in your opinion a democracy cannot have the same politcal party in control of both the Executive and Legislative branches.

And please explain how and what Putin is "running", and how Medvedev is not living up to his role as President.

Thanks.

Originally posted by DavidWright
Is not Russia......a puppet government then?

Answer the above questions, and you will receive an answer to whether it is a puppet government.

Also what is the definition of "puppet government"?

[edit on 30-8-2008 by maloy]

reply to post by maloy


Hmm at first Russia went in there to protect them from Georgia. Then they announced that they wanted to recognize Ossetias independence. Then it comes out and says that they are going to be part of the "Russian Superstate" Ok man you just keep telling yourself and others there is nothing to this but it sounds like you need to take a step out and look in because it doesnt look good at all.

It is paying attention. A bit too much attention. Maybe paying attention to America's own wars would be more useful.

Yup paying attention to our own wars or just not getting into stupid wars.

U.S refuses to recognize the independence of S Ossetia and Abkhazia. U.S. even refuses to hold an official referendum there. As far as the West is concerned - to them there is no S Ossetia.

I know and I dont think its right. If they want to create their own country separate from Georgia and separate from Russia we NEED to recognize it for we do with other countries like Israel and Kosovo. But Im sorry I dont buy that the citizens want to be annexed into Russia Im sorry. Yea so did all the other country "annexed" after WWII.

What would you want Bush to do - had he had the full U.S. military at his disposal? Start a war with Russia because of a tiny third world country rules by a reckless puppet? Now that won't be worthless now would it?

Nope if Bush had the full military he should let this one slide. But he should get them ready in case Russia invades a country like Ukraine or Georgia as a whole. Stop the imperialists in their tracks. Now I just want to make it clear as of now even if Russia does pursue imperialistic agendas we as the US really dont have the moral authority because of the crap WE have done. But Im sorry a Russia with those powers I feel is not a good thing at all.

How do you tell real threats from imaginery threats? Was Taliban a real threat? Was Saddam? Was North Korea? Is Iran? Is the Axis of Evil a real threat? Do you let the White house press secretary tell you who the real threat is? Or do you let the media tell you what a real threat is?

You think Russia is a real threat. Why? Because of what you see on CNN or read in Newsweek? How do you know you aren't being lied to (again)? How do you know that you are being told the entire story? There is nothing wrong in having imagined enemies (no better way to build some nationalism) - but what is wrong is when your government actually starts a conflict with that imagined enemy.


Regardless of how many lies we have all seen and heard, and how many useless wars were waged - many still can't tell a real threat apart from a perceived threat or imaginary threat. Most offen the threat to one's country doesn't come from the outside but from inside.

Im no sheeple so dont paint me as some news junkie who buys the government crap I am fed. In fact I listened to alot of what you had to said as the updates were coming as the battle was progressing.
I feel none of the above were threats as far as Iran, N Korea, and what not. I dont even feel as of now Russia is a threat but the moment I see Russia going into other countries with the duty of "Annexing" them then yes you and your government will be on my personal watch list. Otherwise no Russia is no threat. On your last paragraph I agree BUT this doesnt only pertain to the US which is what you insinuate. This applies to ALL countries including Russia.

reply to post by mistermeow


I would also like to mention Ireland for us Brits.....and well go back a few years and add most of the world to that as well.........Makes what Russia is doing seem rather insignificant.


And yet Russia is wrong and we are right???

Originally posted by DavidWright
I love all the talk about puppet governments.

Russia has a newly elected president but has Putin running the show

Is not Russia......a puppet government then?

Excellent point and one I failed to mention...but not that I didn't already know this beforehand. KGB Putin is running the show in Russia and Medvedev really is nothing more than his own personal puppet. It's really sad that people cannot see what is REALLY happening. But that is what being blinded by their anti-American hate will do.