Touché McCain, Touché.

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posted on Aug, 29 2008 @ 03:33 PM
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Although I have never heard of Gov. Sarah Palin, I think McCain's choice for Vice President is a brilliant move in the long run.

With all the talk of the new grounds being made by Obama as the first African American democratic nominee and the potential history making of becoming the first Black president, McCain has effectively helped to steal a little of that thunder away for himself. The democrats have lost the appealing monopoly on groundbreaking "change" as a female vice president suddenly becomes an option.

Palin will appeal heavily to soccer moms but more importantly the former Hillary-for-president supporters (particularly the females) who felt disenfranchised by the outcome of the democratic primary that eventually came down to Obama and Hillary. These are the democrats that strongly desired to see Hillary be the first female president...or even vice president...and have seen both those hopes dashed to pieces. They also have threatened to vote for McCain in protest. Although I disagree with dangerously and childishly voting for a president out of spite, how much more attractive must the prospect of that idea now be?

Palin may appeal superficially to certain segments but as some analysts have pointed out...


Palin's age, inexperience rival Obama's
...

She is younger and less experienced than the first-term Illinois senator, and brings an ethical shadow to the ticket. A governor for just 20 months, she was two-term mayor of Wasilla, Alaska, a town of 6,500 where the biggest issue is controlling growth and the biggest civic worry is whether there will be enough snow for the Iditarod dog-mushing race.
Yahoo.news.com


So we now have here a balancing act being played by both groups.

The key for them is to convince the voter not to consider McCain or Obama individually as potential presidents but to see each of them as part of a "package deal" presidency. McCain is old, a bit of a curmudgeon and at times seems to get foggy and very confused, but Palin is young, fresh and more likely to bail him out of that situation. Obama is inexperienced and seen as naive and weak on personal attack, but Biden is very experienced and known to be good for a scrap.

Strangely enough at this point we're not supposed to consider McCain or Obama as a president, but merely part of some new presidential duo. A duo where neither president nor vice president really overshadows the other but instead form a single president we can be more confident in. A perfect balanced president found not in one man or woman, but in two people.

That is a new one for me.

Personally I care what direction this country takes during the next presidency. I refuse to be caught up in gimmick, novelty or fad. I think it is crucial to consider seriously the motives of both sides and focus on them under the glare of spotlights and the flashes of news cameras. The next president and vice president have a lot of work ahead of them and the wrong choice could help slip this country further into crisis.

Regardless of the outcome inroads into new territory will have been forever made. With lackluster candidates such as these...I am amazed at how exciting this has all become.

May we live in interesting times.

- Lee




posted on Aug, 29 2008 @ 04:10 PM
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reply to post by lee anoma
 


What an excellent post. While I am excited at the prospect of seeing history made in my lifetime, I do agree that there are many problems this country faces. I think it is good we will have two different views, no matter who wins to take a different perspective on the problems.

I think Sen. McCain made a brilliant choice because this is what all the pundits are now talking about. I have a new respect for the man. Are we seeing the old Maverick come out?



posted on Aug, 29 2008 @ 04:32 PM
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I kinda like Palin too. But I definitely don't like McCain.

Obama brought me a bit more over to his side last night with his wonderful speech, but no matter how much McCain talks, I don't think he could ever do that.

Even my boyfriend was impressed and he dislikes democrats a lot more than I do.

While Palin is new and fresh though, she does lack experience, but I've heard alot about how she has good executive experience. While I'm not in line with her stances on the issues, I definitely respect them. She doesn't seem like an irrational person.

For instance, she's against gay marriage and Alaska passed legislation to ban it, but she vetoed legislation that would bar the state from granting them the same benefits as heterosexual couples. That was pretty cool.

I don't agree with her anti-abortion stance, but she is a member of feminists for life, so it's not like she's just some "women should stay at home" female either. That's kinda like me.

She seems to have really cleaned up the government up there by getting rid of the ethically challenged officials in her government. What would be funny is if she winds up kicking out McCain if she finds out how ethically challenge he is.


She does have the investigation into abuse of power going on where she fired the commissioner of public safety for SUPPOSEDLY not firing her sister's ex husband. People have brought up how he has done some bad things but honestly, none of them had anything to do with his position as a state trooper. They were all part of his personal life.

Then there's firing the entire board of agriculture because they wouldn't stop the shut down of a dairy plan there. She replaced them all with people on her side who vetoed the creamery board decision to shut it down.

I don't like that it seems (notice the emphasis on seems) that she is willing to abuse her power to accomplish personal goals.

But....

Man, oh, man this race is gonna be close and interesting.

Shoot, if I could have it my way, I would want Obama and Palin on the same ticket!! (but unfortunately Obama does need the foreign relations experience on the ticket and he wouldn't have that with Palin.



posted on Aug, 29 2008 @ 09:55 PM
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Originally posted by lee anoma
Although I have never heard of Gov. Sarah Palin, I think McCain's choice for Vice President is a brilliant move in the long run.

Palin will appeal heavily to soccer moms but more importantly the former Hillary-for-president supporters (particularly the females) who felt disenfranchised by the outcome of the democratic primary that eventually came down to Obama and Hillary. These are the democrats that strongly desired to see Hillary be the first female president...or even vice president...and have seen both those hopes dashed to pieces. They also have threatened to vote for McCain in protest. Although I disagree with dangerously and childishly voting for a president out of spite, how much more attractive must the prospect of that idea now be?


I don't think so. As a former Hillary supporter (now an enthusiastic Obama advocate) I can say confidently that the mere presence of a woman on the ballot is by far not enough to get my vote. It's insulting to say that women will simply vote for another woman, regardless of her qualifications. Clinton has experience, great intelligence, a knowlege of how to get around Washington, toughness and a position I agree with on most of the issues. I have nothing against her gender (in fact I'm in favor of it) but it's certainly not enough in and of itself.

As I recall, the "soccer moms" that the press loves to focus on voted heavily for Bill Clinton in the 90's.

Remember that Geraldine Ferraro ran for vice president with Dukakis some years ago. If she helped the ticket you wouldn't know it by the votes they got. The "change" that people are calling for goes much deeper than a person's color or gender. It's a fundamental change in the way things are done in Washington, as well as specific changes which both Obama and Clinton have discussed in detail.

Palin, as far as I have seen, offers nothing to change my mind.



Strangely enough at this point we're not supposed to consider McCain or Obama as a president, but merely part of some new presidential duo. A duo where neither president nor vice president really overshadows the other but instead form a single president we can be more confident in. A perfect balanced president found not in one man or woman, but in two people.

This is a new one for me.


Considering the power of the vice president in the Bush administration, it's no wonder the office is getting close scrutiny. Different presidents have had differing relationships with their vp's. Roosevelt, for example, mostly ignored Truman and kept him out of the loop on many things, while in the Kennedy administration LBJ was crucial in his ability to move legislation through an often obstinate congress.

You describe the relationship in terms most people would use to describe a marriage, but IMO it's not too far-fetched.



posted on Aug, 30 2008 @ 01:04 AM
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I don't know about Touche. It took a while for me to really put my finger on it, but it's been kind of on the tip of my brain all day.

The problem with Palin isn't her inexperience in and of itself. I'm not so worried about experience and I've been pretty quick to defend against the impulse to completely shut somebody out based on that.

The problem with the mere QUESTION of her experience is that it forces us to entertain the assumption that John McCain may be too old to survive a full term.

Everyone has been saying that Palin negates the experience issue. And I've been scratching my head and saying, "I kind of believe that but something sounds wrong with it."

Finally it sunk in: Palin is NUMBER 2 and Obama is NUMBER 1.
If inexperience really is a deal breaker, then it's better to vote McCain and have AT LEAST A CHANCE of an experienced president, instead of getting an inexperienced president on day 1. (I don't believe that, but that's the logic that applies to the experience argument).

So Why does Palin STILL seem to negate the experience issue despite that? Because she brings to the surface our sometimes unspoken collective understanding that John McCain, nearing life expectancy and entering a job that ages much younger men terribly, has a VERY appreciable chance of dying in office. We think of her as Number 1, not Number 2, AND we have to set aside all of McCain's positives in that scenario, because they will die with him.

McCain just increased the role of his age in this campaign significantly, and I suspect that polls will bear me out on this in the coming months, even though the public and the media may not immediately put their finger on exactly why.



posted on Aug, 30 2008 @ 11:19 AM
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reply to post by The Vagabond
 


In the short run, this was a brilliant political move that put Sen. McCain in the spotlight. However, as more people see her campaigning, the surprise will die down and it will be back to Sen. Obama's incredible acceptance speech (you can only use that surprise once). The debates are going to be Sen. Obama's biggest strength, and with the choice of such a young running mate, Sen. McCain's 72 will be in the back of the minds of the moderate voters. His pick of a social conservative has been embraced by the conservative wing of the party, but they would be back to support the Republican ticket anyway (and they always have high turnout, so this won't help Sen McCain in the turnout fight).
Even if Sen. McCain does not win, he has introduced Republicans to a future candidate, much to the chagrin of Mitt Romney and Mike Huckabee.

In the long run, this will barely help Sen. McCain (especially when the surprise factor wears off).



posted on Aug, 30 2008 @ 03:38 PM
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If McCain doesn't win, Palin is unlikely to ever see office outside of Alaska. The Republican party is very much about waiting your turn to be the Presidential candidate. Generally Republicans lose in the primaries once or twice before they finally win a nomination.
Palin has said herself that she never really set out to do any of this, and I don't know if a hockey mom is going to go to the time and expense of leaving Alaska and organizing multiple national campaigns, in the thin hope that she can trump much more experienced candidates without John McCain at her side.
And if she does, how many times will she do it? Will she try it in 2012 and then give up forever? Or has she really got the guts to be (perhaps) the losing VP candidate in 2008, a losing Primary Presidential Candidate in 2012, and still come back and make a sincere and credible effort at 2016?



posted on Aug, 30 2008 @ 07:14 PM
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reply to post by The Vagabond
 


That is a problem with both parties. They seem to think it is like a line of royalty and everyone has to wait their turn. I would hear people state that it was Sen. Clinton's turn and the others running should not win. I guess enough voters decided enough was enough and Sen. Obama won.

I still think Gov. Palin will be looked at in the future to find a fresh face outside of Washington DC.



posted on Sep, 2 2008 @ 07:42 AM
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Originally posted by lee anoma
Although I have never heard of Gov. Sarah Palin, I think McCain's choice for Vice President is a brilliant move in the long run.


Pregnant unmarried teenage daughters anyone



Good post though.
at 1st i thought good move, now, i think it has all went pear shaped.

cant see to many religious folks voting for a man who brought in the mother of a pregnant unmarried girl

..or am i thinking all wrong here ?





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