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Botched Sting: Killed With Gun She Was Supposed to Buy

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posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 07:13 AM

Originally posted by AERO_VISIONS

The police, no matter how negligent and inexperienced are not to blame.
They did not pull the trigger. This highlights the problem our police forces have to deal with the drug trade. In general, the police almost 100% of the time, catch the criminal. Rather an outstanding record I would say. Our society does not punish the criminal for the crime. If this was Singapore, these drug dealers would not exist. They would get their trial and be put to death almost immediately. Not in the good old US though. They will get cable TV and 3 squares a day.

The men that killed her are the criminals. They are the ones that pulled the trigger. They are the ones that should be held accountable. They are the ones that should be put down.

Did the police make a mistake? Possibly. Do we go after them? No! They now know where they failed. This will not happen again with them. If we want to fix this for good so this never happens again, let the police solve the problem once and for all. Train them, equip them, then send them out with our full support and a simple command. END THE DRUG TRADE! It would end in one week with our full support. We do not support our police the way we should people. We put our police under impossible criteria, then complain when things don't go right. Well, I may be a voice in the wilderness, but I'm tired of hearing these sad endings. Our police forces are our sons and daughters. I repeat, our sons and daughters. They are up against foreign drug runners. Who do you want to support? I opt for our sons and daughters!

Great idea!
So we dont want them to trade heroin and we can stop it within a week. We dont want them to trade coc aine. Extacy Prozac... wait no prozac is ok i think. MJ, definitley no MJ. Tobacco... coffee? If coffee is a yes, how about tea?
Alcohol kills quite some folks actually... *knock knock* "hi Sir, I have a search warrant here. oh look what we got here... a sixpack! And that orange juice looks old... you are not trying to ferment it are you?"

Breaking the speed limit is against the law as well. Why dont we shoot speeders on sight? or at least use them as informants?

posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 07:48 AM
come on be realistic worst thing that can happen is you get hooked on junk food when smoking a spliff
and as far as thouse pills go , i still recall em being VERY LEGAL when they where introduced over in usa and still are in some states.
here where i live she would have paid a fine of mabye 1500$ and had to take councling, as far as i can see it she was not a pucher.
there are many aspects of everyones mind sets who was involved in this bust.

but these police men just abused life as we know it and as far as thouse articles state we still dont know if there was any illigal substances in thouse pills she had to retrive.
could have been baking soda and fat burners as far as we know.

people seam to focus on things like drugs are bad because drug dealers are bad,
on not on the prime issue of drug usage in it self.
but there are some valid points in the war on drugs like

its moraly not acceptable to make tax free money like that
bad dealers might sell unclean drugs which are bad for you

but more then that i could not formulate to the subject of matter cause all human interactions are social events based on personal background.

drugs are bad when used and introduced in the wrong way, plain and simple
now im not saying everyone should do em cause not all are mentaly stable enough and might even be allergic which in turn might be fatal,
but its not the drug , its all about who you are.

but eating a cap of vitamine in the morning is just as artificial as granny take a pill for her hip or that overactive kid eating ritalin.

these policemen where to afraid of their own job so they sent in a kid instead,
all i can say to em is do not leave your cell untill youve grown up

this witchhunt mind set is what has to be eliminated from society for it to evolve

posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 07:55 AM
I have to say, you cannot blame the police for this whole situation. I've been a CI for many years now, and I have the option to say no; as did she. I've been asked to sell a gun before, my answer, "NO WAY". And I'm not that much older than she is, I know better than to put myself in a situation where I may not be able to handle things. Shes almost just as much at fault as the police are. The police obviously made their mistake by not controlling the deal in a way it should have been done. Loss of contact with the CI, a hundred patrol vehicles should have been on their a$$es in two seconds flat.

posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 08:17 AM
reply to post by milkinmoo

im sorry for not understanding your mind set

let me get this straigth ,

police offer a gun for sale
someone A else sell it to someone B
police make a bust
someone B goes to jail
while someone A who broke the law goes free

lazyness at its best and moraly wrong

correct me if im wrong but isnt it the polices job to do the "dirty" work so that civilians dont have to experience the danger.
thats what they signed up for,

sorry for being winded up,

but over here "fake" sales or what you call em is not legal,
it is lying and we cannot have policemen lying cause that takes the credability away from the law in it self.

posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 08:52 AM
reply to post by zerbot565

You have a good point, and I do agree with what you're saying. Just so ya know though, I've never broke the law (well, I do go over the speed limit sometimes, shhh). My deal, I had a psycho ex co-worker that I needed "taken care of". A good friend of mine is in law enforcement, legally the only way he could do anything was if I became a CI. Unfortunately ours laws are so screwed up that the law cannot help you unless you're working for "the man". I believe there is some type of privacy law. For example: my old neighbors were selling drugs the whole time they lived next door, even had a drive by shooting. I called the police and informed them of what was going on and they said they couldn't do anything about it (this was before I signed up as a CI). I had all the proof in the world that they were dealing and was worried about my family, and the police still would do nothing. So back to my "deal" with the ex co-worker, I knew he carried a gun and was a convicted felon, I also knew where he was going to be one night. So, I signed the paperwork I had to sign, gave them the information, and the guy was taken down.

Its not the police that are "lazy" or not doing their jobs, its the laws that prevent them from doing anything. The whole system is screwed. If I were to have done as most people do and go file a report, then try to get a restraining order (that I wouldn't be able to get unless he physically harms me first), well, whos to say I'd even be here right now.

posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 09:42 AM
People who use and distribute a plant [a sacred herb given to us from God] are treated
like criminals. George Bush and his band of War Criminals murder thousands upon thousands of innocent people and go free!
Whats wrong with this picture??

posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 10:35 AM
My God how could any human being do that to this little girl.

We need to make a stand against what our nation has become.

I am so angry! How in the world does a healthy mind justify what was done to her.

Only the twisted mind could do this to that little girl.

posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 11:20 AM
“Although Ms. Hoffman had a well-established business of cannabis distribution with her friends, she had no experience with dealing in ecstasy, coc aine or firearms,” the grand jurors wrote. ++==The words "well established" are VERY impt. I think she just got in over her head.

posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 01:33 PM
They used that girl with no remorse or regard for her safety. They wanted their collar and didn't care what they had to do .

They are responsible for her death and should be tried for manslaugher. In the military that would be called neglegence. I don't dislike cops. I hate pigs. Cops save lives, pigs ruin them. A pig is a cop with no heart.

Sad. I will pray for her soul.

posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 01:33 PM

Originally posted by PuRe EnErGy
When are people going to wake up and realize this illusion of control is simply that.. an illusion, and those who perpetrate this illusion are taking advantage of those that believe in the system...

True...No government in history has ever been able to rule when enough people remove their consent to be governed. Their whole base of control is an illusion & you can fight illusion with fact. There are some ways already posted on ATS.

Know The Hidden Meanings Behind the Laws...: If you know how the laws are written, you can find ways that defeat the extensive corruption practiced by government, use the Law for your own defense & how people can & do remove their consent.
Choosing Freedom Admiralty/Marine Law jurisdiction: Much of the whole thread has a few useful points, but I'd only recently found some really useful info, so I'd posted it on page 4.
Man declares sovereignty, challenges jurisdiction of court: The man described in this thread obviously knew what he was doing & did it well. Key point here is that he knew what he was doing so I don't recommend duplicating his actions until you know what you're doing.

Another thing to consider is how your State may help. There's a few ATS threads that show States resisting Fed control even now...Like this one for example.

But the death of that gal was reprehensible...She should have been smart enough to ask for some kind of training before agreeing to help (her lawyer should have known better too). I would expect that, if the heat for this doesn't reach all the way up to the governor, then there's something terrible getting missed: Every government Officer is legally responsible for the training & conduct of all other Officers below him/her...And that poor gal was not given proper aid & support to prevent her death, even while under cooperation with the police.

Originally posted by zerbot565
well atleast here where i live , they are not alowed to do things like that ,
its against the law.

It's not against the law just where you are, but in the whole of the USA & every State!
Her lawyer & family should press to get a trial in an Article 3 Court, as she was coerced into a life-threatening situation which did indeed end in fatality...In an Article 3 Court, it'll be big-time charge on the coercion the police used, especially since they had no authority to offer her that "deal" in the first place.

The attitude shown by the "authorities" in this case is a blasphemous disregard to their duties under Oath. Such an attitude is nothing more than a "smoke & mirrors" approach to add to the illusion that the government is in control over the People, instead they deny the truth that the People are the ultimate control over the government.

Originally posted by Major Discrepancy
Bottom line; if she hadn't been involved in any illegal drugs, she would still be alive today.

Bottom line: Even though that gal committed wrong & was still in the legal process of paying for it, it's was also much more wrong for the police to coerce her into getting killed...Against the very laws they're sworn to uphold!

Her wrong got her on probation...Their wrong led to an otherwise avoidable death. Who there happened to be further along on the dark side? Their lack of respect for their Oath-bound duty to the Law led to the death of another. That's the bottom line...The Rule of Law!

Does the Major condone using untrained civilians as cannon fodder?...And maybe the Major may see fit someday to stop referring to himself in the third person?

Originally posted by Gregarious
I just had a great idea, to promote morality and piety in America. The 'War on Drugs' obviously did not work, how about a 'War on Pigs'?

No, that won't work either. Every time the government declares any kind of War on (abstract noun), the problem only gets worse...Because they intentionally make it worse so they can profit from it & secure their own jobs more tightly.

[edit on 31-8-2008 by MidnightDStroyer]

posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 03:10 PM
I keep saying it: If the girl that was killed had simply known and used her RIGHTS, she would be alive today.

A COP stopped her on the street and asked her if she had any drugs in her apartment....and if she had simply toild the cop she never spoke to the police without an attorney, she would have walked away and beeen alive today. The people normally do NOT know the laws and the rights we have, and do not use them. That cop could NOT have done anything whatsoever if the girl had simply refused to speak to him, or just said NO to his question.

WHY on earth did that girl spill her guts right there on the spot just because some cop asked her? It makes no sense. What kind of weak person will roll over and confess all just because some cop asks a question? I feel terrible for the girl, and I pity her not having the guts to tell thaty cop to leave her alone and call her lawyer if he had any questions. The cop would have left her alone...he had NO reason to get any warrants based on her refusal to give up her way.

People should know that they do NOT ever have to answer any question that a cop asks...the right to remain silent is total. You cannot be charged because to refuse to answer cannot stand in a court. No way. Cops ask a lot of questions, and if you spill your guts and give them your stash, then don't cry are weak. This girl did not deserve to be in that position, she was caught with some POT, for Gods sake...and then the PIGS brought her into contact with bad guys..guys with guns and hard drugs and murder on their minds...and it can all be laid on the stupid and uncaring PIGS that did this.

Those filthy cop should be charged with involuntary manslaughter and neligent conduct resulting in well as any other civil rights charges, to teach them a lesson, as well as their fellow pigs. The fact that the head pig finds no problem is common...the filthy pigs always stick up for each other even when they murder and steal...dirty dogs.

never trust a stinking cop, and never be a much as the girl was a victim of the system, she still chose to RAT out people rather than take her I have little sympathy for her...rats deserve death. But the cops in this case didn't care about her...only about another bust and another headline...thats their world..may they rot in it.

posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 04:54 PM

Originally posted by Kosha8
People who use and distribute a plant [a sacred herb given to us from God] are treated
like criminals. George Bush and his band of War Criminals murder thousands upon thousands of innocent people and go free!
Whats wrong with this picture??

did we also forget the shares/stock holds that the bush family has/had in Eli Lilly

Does everyone have their welding goggles on? Can't see anything except the BRIGHT lights? ..

There is more going on than we give credit for.

This poor girl is just the last nail in the coffin so-to-speak, something needs to be done, enough is enough.
There needs to be some rational thought somewhere along the line, enough of these hard handed tactics.

posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 06:29 PM
doesn't anyone get it? she was offered a deal,and it was bogus. they often do this to inexperienced people. thats why no one was informed.
after she was done with that deal, it would have been,"well,thats not quite enought to get you off."
police ,in the academy are told that everyone is lying. this is justification for these "officers" to do nothing but lie themselves.
they were screwing this girl,and i hope that the illegality of the situation comes back to bite them in the ass.
why is it ,like most situations,that something can be unconstitutional one day and not the next? i.e.

especially entrapment. i have seen the camden,nj police sell drugs on one corner and collect the people on the next. commit a felony to get a misdemeanor offense?
i dont understand why a person couldn't press charges on the officer. or are they above the law.
and i love the prostitution scam. they sell their body,and you go to jail for wanting it i dont get it. who committed the crime?

[edit on 31-8-2008 by Spectre0o0]

posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 09:52 PM
When cops break the law to enforce the law it goes against every idea of Common Law. It is illegal to break the law to enforce the law plain and simple!

And whats more, we as a society have given the cops extraordinary powers to tap phones, internet etc, place bugs, warrentless searches, strip searches etc etc so it is not like they don't have every resource available to them! How come they used this poor girl instead of all the crap powers they now have, when is enough Enough!

Many years ago I had a good respect for cops until I had a situation involving them and I was astounded at how they lied, coerced, twisted and fabricated evidence. I coud hardly believe it so I understand how until you have such an experience it is actually hard to realise just how far they will go in lying to suit themselves. That girl would have been scared and looking for someone to trust and she trusted the cops, and it cost her life. Things need to change!

I've said it before, there are some decent cops out there and they need to pull the scumbags in their ranks into line, otherwise in the end we will, and we won't be taking the time to work out which are the good cops and the bad cops when that time comes unfortunately!

posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 10:37 PM

cop should be charged with involuntary manslaughter and neligent conduct resulting in well as any other civil rights charges

As far as I am concerned the police involved need to be brought up on charges as accessories to murder. They were acting illegally by offering a deal without the prosecuting attorney's knowledge. Therefore when they coerced the girl into participating in the sting they were acting as individuals and not as law officers. That makes them accessories to murder since they knowingly place her in a position to get killed.

posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 10:56 PM
reply to post by PuRe EnErGy

Afew years ago here there was a young girl I worked with that had gotten involved with meth use and she was apparently getting it for some of her friends too, anyway she got busted one afternoon, and the police decided to use her to get to the bigger dealer, so, they rented a hotel room for the setup, she was to meet the dealers in her room for a buy, she was only 18, here that is not even old enough to rent a room. Someone tipped off the dealers, IMO it had to be a cop, no one else knew what she was doing, she was taken from the police dept to the hotel, the phone was restricted in the room, her cell phone was used to make any contact.

The dealers came into the hotel before the time that was set up. They eviserated the girl. Ripped her to pieces, pulled her tongue and eyes out of her body. When the real time came for the police to be there and protect her during the 'buy' she was already dead. I don't know if her mother recieved any kind of compensation for her loss, she talked about what she knew had happened (that is how I know most of what I have written here) then went silent the next day, then she moved away.

So sad that people like this get used with no protection.

posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 11:10 PM
Well the authorities are brainwashed to just think we are either some lower level animals, drug addicted criminals.. a worthless human being, or law abiding citizens, and of course.. once a criminal always a criminal, most authority figures believe this, they label and judge everything.

Things in society need to be organized differently.

[edit on 8/31/2008 by PuRe EnErGy]

posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 11:18 PM
reply to post by PuRe EnErGy

...once a criminal always a criminal, most authority figures believe this...

Not quite. They know that everyone IS a criminal, wether or not you've been caught yet. And if you're not with them you're against them. Gang mentality.

posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 11:26 PM

Originally posted by jackinthebox
reply to post by PuRe EnErGy

...once a criminal always a criminal, most authority figures believe this...

Not quite. They know that everyone IS a criminal, wether or not you've been caught yet. And if you're not with them you're against them. Gang mentality.

Quite true indeed, but one would think there is an officer out there somewhere who is a human being before an officer, but I think they've been train-washed into believing all of these things.. with the fear of death as a motivating factor...

posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 11:38 PM
I have always held a belief that any good officer has to have a criminal mind, to think the way a criminal thinks.

How many people have the balls to walk right up to someone and make demands? Cops do, and certian crimes demand it.

A lot of cops can figure out a crime not based on evidence but what appears to be criminal patterns, but is it? Or is it because they think the same, and are able to say what a criminal will do because they just know?

Just some food for thought.

edit= fix error

[edit on 31-8-2008 by space cadet]

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