Why I don't beleive in God

God. The first, the creator... I don't believe in God.

I will be refering god as 'He'.


The concept is paradoxial.
If God is the creator, then who created God?
God could not self-create. One must exist to create, therefor if he didn't exist at one point, then he couldn't of created himself.

If Jesus is God's son, then God must be human,as Jesus was human, because humans come from humans. But if god was human, then he would have a mothr. Therefor, he would not be God as there was an element before him. Also, if God was a human, how could he be living forever?

The concept is not logical, therfor to me, invalid!


What do you people think?

Good thread btw

but i do believe in God and ye you made some good points but the bible says that he was the son of god but you dont necessarily have to believe that do you thats just what they told you.

"If God is the creator, then who created God?
God could not self-create. One must exist to create, therefor if he didn't exist at one point, then he couldn't of created himself."

Ive been thinking about this for a long time now about what created god or does god have a God he worships aswell stuff like that but since "One must exist to create" how do you suppose we came to life.

oh and im not just a bad christian btw i just dont bye what most of the bible says i just try and believe what would make sense to me and what could logically happen but i do believe that theyre was a person called Jesus Christ around the time and was probably crusified but im not sure wether he is the son of God most people auto matically assume that its all true but its probably not.

I believe Jesus existed also, but I do not believe his claims. To me, Jesus wanted to spread his ideology to the world, and made up a story for people who would listen to anything about life, to make them feel secure.
I believe Jesus performed magic tricks also.

The Bible is a book > people right books > people can lie, therefor it is possible the Bible is not the truth.
Humans are greedy, power loving, and also, the Bible is on paper... Paper was invented after the Bible, therefor its possible that during the transition to paper (assuming that the Bible was recorded on something else prior), mistakes could have been made, and or the person or group of people who performed the transition may have modified it for their own gain.

Also, if life is a test, and God knows past present and future, why would he need to set a test if he would already know the out come? It doesn't make sense.

Also, the new testimony? How can there be a new testimony?

I think this is getting off topic, but I just wanted to state that. When I talk God I am speaking of the common universal power relative to all religions. So I won't discuss Jesus anymore in this thread, rather the concept of God itself.

[edit on 29-8-2008 by Nikolas]

God doesn't need to be human to have a human son. It is his essence, or his 'matter' or whatever you want to call it that are the building blocks for a human.

Just like lumber comes from trees and mortar from rocks, yet we don't say that we build our structures with trees and rocks, we say lumber and mortar...even though they are, in essence, trees and rocks.

reply to post by Nikolas


Ye i see what you mean about God apparently knowing past present an future because ye he would not need to det tests but maybe God isnt as all powerful as we think i mean they tried to do it to Jesus they tried to make him sound all powerful when he was just a man so whoose to say they didnt do it to God aswell.

Hello Nikolas!

If God isn't the creator and he was created then who created the creator of God...?

You see that using human logic, that is finite logic conditioned by both space and time, it is impossible to explain such things whose reality is more than finite as is the case with God. Also Jesus wasn't born human. His nature is divine, but he chose to incarnate and walk among us, as a human being, like us.

Furthermore, I agree with you that the Bible might not be faultless, but that doesn't mean that because the Bible has some inaccuracies or faults that God doesn't exist or whatever. As long as people approach God the same way they do with mathematics, physics etc., it will be impossible for them to accept his reality. You just can't prove his existence. We are struggling to understand how the universe works. How can we ever hope to understand the one who created the rules that govern the universe using the same way, that is our finite mind and logic? I mean, we don't even know why 2 atoms of hydrogen and one atom of oxygen make water...

For me, even the fact that I can ponder on my existence is enough evidence that there is a God...

Alexandros

Logical Argument #1

1. The universe exists.

2. Everything material that exists has to have been created.

3. The universe was created.

Logical Argument #2 (based on the conclusion of Argument #1)

1. The universe was created.

2. Everything material that is created has to have a creator.

3. The universe had a creator.

Logical Argument #3 (based on the conclusion of Argument #2)

1. God is immaterial.

2. Immaterial is defined as the absence of matter.

3. Something immaterial does not need to have been created since
only material things must have a creator.

Logical Argument #4 (based on the conclusion of Argument #3)

1. Something immaterial does not need to have been created.

2. God is immaterial.

3. God does not need to have been created.

I replied to this post logged in, but for so reason I got logged out and it posted anonymously.

Originally posted by InterestedObserver
Logical Argument #1

1. The universe exists.

2. Everything material that exists has to have been created.

Too bad your entire argument fails here. To proceed from #2 you have to actually demonstrate that the assertion is true. It's a non-sequitur.

I could equally have said.

1. The universe exists.

2. Everything material that exists has to have been here forever.

3. Therefore there are no gods.

I win.

If a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound?
If a universe existed but had nothing existing in it, did it really exist?
Logic tells me that it is impossible for nothing to exist.
If nothing existed, who would be around to know about it?

[edit on 30-8-2008 by jmdewey60]

My only logcial answer is that energy has always existed and always will, the force( what can only be described as god) behind the energy, controls and wills the energy to how it wants it (creation), it changes, transforms the energy into stars, planets animals, beings, angels or whatever there is out there.

So my opinion, energy has always existed, the force behind it creates what it wills from the energy for whatever purpose. Nothing can create god, because god(the force) has always existed, god invented creation.

So what do you guys think of this theory?



[edit on 30-8-2008 by _Phoenix_]

Originally posted by _Phoenix_
My only logcial answer is that energy has always existed and always will, the force( what can only be described as god) behind the energy, controls and wills the energy to how it wants it (creation), it changes, transforms the energy into stars, planets animals, beings, angels or whatever there is out there.

So my opinion, energy has always existed, the force behind it creates what it wills from the energy for whatever purpose. Nothing can create god, because god(the force) has always existed, god invented creation.

I would say that energy existed as long as a dimensional quality of the universe existed.
You say this "Force" controls, wills, changes, transforms, and invents.
You could probably think up a couple more attributes to this "Force" or God.
John went to the throne room of God and saw seven lamps that represented the seven spirits of God.
Of course I do not know what that means but it shows a complexity to God that goes beyond some bodily representation of God.

5Out from the throne come flashes of lightning and sounds and peals of thunder And there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God;

Watch this video on Jesus and God called the zeitgeist. it will make you think.

youtube.com

Originally posted by Nikolas
God. The first, the creator... I don't believe in God.

I will be refering god as 'He'.


The concept is paradoxial.
If God is the creator, then who created God?
God could not self-create. One must exist to create, therefor if he didn't exist at one point, then he couldn't of created himself.

If Jesus is God's son, then God must be human,as Jesus was human, because humans come from humans. But if god was human, then he would have a mothr. Therefor, he would not be God as there was an element before him. Also, if God was a human, how could he be living forever?

The concept is not logical, therfor to me, invalid!


What do you people think?

if god was real everyone would be smoking reefer.

I now know why it posted annonymously. I logged into abovetopsecret.com, and my thread was moved to belowtopsecret.com. #ty website setup, and when I came to my thread, I was on belowtopsecret.com, and not logged in.


But yeah, as I was saying in my annonymous reply.
Just because God does not exist in the 3rd dimension, doesn't mean he could not exist in another, infact, I don't think God could exist in the 3rd dimension, as the 3rd dimension has a boundary, or does it? See, to me, infinity exists, but how could infinity exist in a body with a boundary? Anyhow, the 3rd dimension requires a parent entity - space, if God created the 3rd dimension he would have done it from the outside, therfor, if God did exist, he would exist in another dimension. But then this logic can be applied to that dimension.

For God to exist, he would need a body to exist in, for example space, therfor space must have existed before God, therfor, God is not God, as he is not the ultimate creator. Therfor, God is a paradox... to me atleast.

[edit on 31-8-2008 by Nikolas]

Originally posted by jmdewey60

I would say that energy existed as long as a dimensional quality of the universe existed.
You say this "Force" controls, wills, changes, transforms, and invents.
You could probably think up a couple more attributes to this "Force" or God.
John went to the throne room of God and saw seven lamps that represented the seven spirits of God.
Of course I do not know what that means but it shows a complexity to God that goes beyond some bodily representation of God.

Of course god is the most complex, most powerful, most knowledgable of all.
I don't know what your trying to say thou?

Originally posted by Nikolas

For God to exist, he would need a body to exist in, for example space, therfor space must have existed before God, therfor, God is not God, as he is not the ultimate creator. Therfor, God is a paradox... to me atleast.

[edit on 31-8-2008 by Nikolas]

The problem you have is your "assuming" things, your assuming that god needs a body, needs space, needs these human things. That's why it's a paradox, god is beyond our understanding as of yet.

reply to post by _Phoenix_


Not really assuming... I am using logic. That is the best I can do at present. To me, the logical answer is the correct answer, or a correct answer.

Originally posted by Nikolas
reply to post by _Phoenix_

 

Not really assuming... I am using logic. That is the best I can do at present. To me, the logical answer is the correct answer, or a correct answer.

Hmm maybe, but you just said god needs a body to exist in. For a moment let's jut forget about all religions, and look at this from a fresh view.

What is god? Define god?

That is the problem, we can not assume god needs this, god needs that, because we do "not" know what exactly god is. So the logic cannot come into play until we know what "exactly" we are trying to explain.

I think humans know less that 00000.1% of what's out there in the universe, we like to think we are so knowledgeable, so advanced, well we are! but we are not even close to understanding "everything" about the universe and all that exists, it would be insane to think we know everything about the universe and god.

I mean most humans don't even understand the most advanced, complex mathematical solutions, if we can't even understand that, something as basic as maths, how do we expect to understand something more complex than anything = GOD, the universe, the creation, time etc etc.

But I love that!, it means we still have so much to learn, so much to find out, almost unlimited potential, and I love learning new things, discovering new inventions, knowledge, places etc . That's what I live for.


[edit on 31-8-2008 by _Phoenix_]