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(FORTUNE Magazine) – A SOVIET NIGHTMARE is coming true. Despite impressive success in closing its technology gap with the West since the atomic age began in 1945, the U.S.S.R. is in danger of falling further behind in a crucial field where a breakthrough could dramatically shift the balance of military power. That area is microelectronics and everything that goes with it, from the engineering of integrated circuits to the art of programming. The West -- particularly the U.S. -- is good at microelectronics, and the Russians are woefully behind. The Soviets already devote proportionally more resources to the military than the U.S. does. With some horror they are learning that vastly greater commitments would be necessary to match the West's drive to incorporate microelectronic components into a new generation of high-tech weapons and battle management computers. The revolution in defense microelectronics challenges the Soviets to compete on a new playing field just as they were attaining parity with the West in more traditional areas of weaponry. ''The Russian nightmare has always been that a revolution in technology will challenge the way they've designed their forces,'' says Arthur Alexander, a Rand Corp. expert on military technology. ''Suddenly, out of nowhere, microelectronics is forcing the Soviets to reconsider everything they've done. It could make a 25-year investment in military technology obsolete.'' For example, ''smart'' missiles that can locate and destroy targets could overcome the numerical superiority in tanks that has been central to Soviet strategy in Europe. Most Western military analysts believe that the Soviets will try to counter the U.S. microelectronics offensive, even if the cost to their economy is excruciating.
While Russian computer technology employed some very excellent techniques, and worked from different perspectives, it never has kept up with U.S. computer technology. Certainly the different approach is now helping U.S. companies move in different directions in improving their computing technology, these concepts were never good enough to give the Soviets and type of lead.
I don't know what tangent you are going off on when talking about AI, I think maybe you are getting confused with science fiction.
Originally posted by WestPoint23
Pravda? I would eat all my words for simple concrete proof that this missile is operational. Alas no such is forthcoming, like the mythical PAK-FA talk is very abundant yet production line end results are missing.
[edit on 11-9-2008 by WestPoint23]
Originally posted by Harlequin
...and seems to have quietly missed everyone....
to compensate for problems they used superior logic design and superscalar processor
Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by manson_322
Certainly the different approach is now helping U.S. companies move in different directions in improving their computing technology, these concepts were never good enough to give the Soviets and type of lead.
Yeah, sure, whatevery you want to believe. Coulda, woulda, shoulda, we were better except______.
Like I pointed out earlier, people all over the world want to come and live in the U.S., not so with Russia, so the U.S. attracts the best and the brightest from around the world, because of our concepts of equal opportunity for all.
All the talk of this advanced Russian weapons technology is just talk, unfortunately it plays right into the hands of the powers who be who love arms races. This is true of the powers that be in Russia as well as the U.S. or Venezuela.
All the talk of this advanced Russian weapons technology is just talk,
The Soviet union was considered the world leader in HPM at the time of its disintegration. The Russians have concentrated on development of HPRF generators such as various types of gyrotrons and klystron amplifiers.
The USSR's high-energy laser program, which dates from the mid-1960s, is much larger than the US effort. They have built over a half dozen major R&D facilities and test ranges, and they have over 10,000 scientists and engineers associated with laser development. They are developing chemical lasers and have continued to work on other high-energy lasers having potential weapons applications - the gas dynamic laser and the electric discharge laser. They are also pursuing related laser weapon technologies, such as efficient electrical power sources, and are pursuing capabilities to produce high-quality optical components. They have developed a rocket-driven magnetohydrodynamic (MHD) generator which produces 15 megawatts of short-term electric power - a device that has no counterpart in the West. The scope of the USSR's military capabilities would depend on its success in developing advanced weapons, including laser weapons for ballistic missile defense.
MOSCOW (RIA Novosti) - Russia started developing tactical laser weapons before the United States and has several prototypes of high-precision combat chemical lasers in its arsenal, a defense industry source said on Tuesday.
The Boeing Company said recently it had test-fired a high-energy chemical laser fitted aboard a C-130H aircraft for the first time. The successful ground tests, "a key milestone for the Advanced Tactical Laser Advanced Concept Technology Demonstration program," took place on May 13 at the Kirtland Air Force Base, New Mexico.
Commenting on the announcement, the Russian expert said: "We tested a similar system back in 1972. Even then our ‘laser cannon was capable of hitting targets with high precision."
"We have moved far ahead since then, and the U.S. has to keep pace with our research and development," he added.
Radar and Laser Beams
The Soviet radar station in Krasnoyarsk has been completed. That radar will show how our missiles approach. The information can be handed out to the SA-12s, which will make a good defense after retaliatory missiles have reentered the atmosphere.
We are approaching the point where mutually assured destruction is not only a terrible idea, but it won't even work. We are allowing our forces of retaliation to become obsolete.
The Soviets have worked for at least 10 years on lasers -- high intensity lasers which can be directed so accurately that in 1000 miles, the spread of the beam will be no more than five feet. We have seen at least one published deployment of such lasers in the Soviet Union on the military test site of Shari Shagan on the shores of Lake Baikal. I suspect that this is not the only one. We act as though the ABM Treaty were a reality.
Starting at the end of the 1960s, the Russians also developed ground-based nuclear laser systems for combating spacecraft. Unlike the American x-ray lasers, they could be used several times over. The programme was terminated after the USSR announced a unilateral moratorium on trials of the space defence system and the puzzling deaths of the two project managers in the mid-1980s. The mobile Pamir-SU electro-generator, with an output of 15MW and a mass of around 20t, could supply power to long-range lasers and ultra-high-frequency weapon systems. It could be used both on the Earth and also in space.
Originally posted by poet1b
Here is an article on the MIG that was turned over to the U.S. by a pilot who defected to the west.
Vacuum tubes were 50ties technology. In an aeroplane flying high up in the atmosphere, heating is not a problem, as it is extremely easy to pull in air from the frigid atmosphere and cool the electronics. By the seventies, transistor technology would have been more available in remote outposts, except perhaps for the USSR which still ran on fifties technology.
The most important factor, vibration, is where tubes are most vulnerable. This made transistorized technology far superior, not to mention space saving. By 1976, the U.S. was already mastering the technology of microprocessors, which by the eighties gave them a technological supremacy that made the Soviets throw in the towel. That was the real scenario.
I see this claimed, but it is BS. Electronic shielding was an easy solution to this problem.
Specific Threatto the Military
So what is the non-nuclear EMP threat to our military today? It is, put simply, that while we are quite enamored of our technological progress, we would do well to ensure that basic infantry skills, those things that have enabled America to have the greatest army in the world, are not forgotten. It can be readily observed that the United States is devoting a significant amount of time, energy, and hard working tax-payer dollars to "push the technology envelope" to prepare for the Force XXI battlefield.
The Army will equip tomorrow's infantry soldier with a totally integrated fighting system that takes full advantage of technological advances. Their fighting load modules include vests with removable ammunition pouches enabling them to carry the soldier radio, battlefield computer, global positioning system (GPS), and required antennas. One burst of EMP will render this equipment inoperable, rendering the 21st century land warrior ineffective on the Force XXI battlespace. He will still be able to fight, but without his wondrous gadgets and gizmos.
Therefore, it seems to me that while developing and implementing technologies and strategies for the Force XXI battlespace, we also need to emphasize force modernization in developing technologies and strategies to counter the EMP threat. It is even more important that our junior leaders and soldiers become and remain exceptionally proficient in basic skills of land navigation, small unit tactics, and sandtable operations and operations orders. I would not discard that Ranger handbook just yet. At the battalion level, I recommend that the battalion intelligence officer keep those grease pencils, templates, and manual weather forecasting equipment handy because the Joint Surveillance and Target Attack Radar System, All-Source Analysis System, and most other "high tech" intelligence connectivity systems will not be working.
In sum, while I advocate taking full advantage of any and all technologies that will enhance our ability to fight and win America's battles, we must not lose sight of one essential fact. Gadgets and gizmos do not take and hold terrain, nor do they fight and win on the battlefield well-trained soldiers do! Non-nuclear EMP has the potential to reduce the battlefield equation to very simple terms. I submit that in this scenario, "back to basics" becomes more than a simple clich‚. Stripped of the technology, the soldier who is well versed in basic soldiering skills will be victorious.
One thing is certain: in case of an EMP attack, don't bother calling James Bond. Your telephone won't be working.
Mr. BARTLETT. Is it not true that a vacuum tube is one million or so times less susceptible to EMP effects?
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Dr. ULLRICH. Absolutely. Vacuum tubes are inherently hard to these kind of effects.
Dr. WOOD. Yes, sir. It is a reasonable projection that most, if not all, modern computer systems exposed to referenced EMP field levels—which are 50 kilovolts per meter, not just 10—but the very high levels you might see in most of the United States—most modern computer systems ranging from laptops to mainframes would wilt. By wilting, they would at least cease to function. In many cases, they would be burned out. So it would require very major maintenance before they could be restored to operation.
Not just computers in aircraft but computers everywhere, other than in this type of very high integrity metallic enclosures that Dr. Ullrich sketched in his opening statement. Computers in any other enclosure than that type would be compromised, if not destroyed outright.
EMP is very destructive because any length of metal will pick up this radio energy. Look at the cars on the street with coat hanger aerials - their radios work fine. So if you have a telephone line or a power line which crosses a continent, an EMP will make it generate about 10 million volts and 10,000 amperes. This is enough to burn through any insulation we have today. If you were to touch a telephone or a radio when the nuke popped, you could be in big trouble.
Modern electronic components (integrated circuits and chips) are very sensitive to EMP. But older electronic components, such as valves (or vacuum tubes) are 1 billion times more resistant. The Russians know this, and they use valves in their MIG 25 Foxbat interceptor fighter. United States investigators found this in 1976 when a Soviet pilot defected to Japan and they pulled the plane to pieces. They started laughing and thought, "Valves in 1976, how primitive!" But late in 1977, the Pentagon rewrote the handbook on the effects of nuclear weapons to advise the use of valves where possible. One Soviet war manual said, "To achieve surprise in a war, high altitude nuclear explosions can be carried out to destroy the electronics of satellites whether they are spy satellites or communication satellites".
If you were flying in a modern aeroplane, and an EMP rippled past, the plane would fall out of the sky like a bunch of car keys. In 1970, Boeing tried to harden some 747s by wrapping the cables in lead, and putting wire mesh on the windows. When they tested it they found that some 12,000 circuits, essential for the running of the aircraft, had fused. Later, they started from scratch, and hardened the 747 right from the very beginning. It didn't have any windows, and it cost five times as much as a normal 747, but it was hardened - and there was only one ever built.
The Blackout Bomb is simply a high-yield nuclear weapon, or a smaller nuclear weapon designed to maximize gamma-ray emissions. The EMP "laydown" of a thermonuclear burst moves at the speed of light, striking the Earth to the horizon at line-of-sight from the detonation. Gamma rays actually radiate spherically from the blast point, creating space EMP which, Dr. Wood explained in written hearing testimony, would damage satellite electronics even at great distances from the explosion. "The basic point," he said, "is that essentially all of our conventional military capability and all of our civilian infrastructure is highly vulnerable to EMP damage. The dollar numbers in the civilian infrastructure alone can be conservatively estimated at several trillion dollars' worth of infrastructure which is at risk potentially even from a single pulse--several trillion dollars."
Any future global war is likely to begin with a few Blackout Bombs. China, Russia, the United States, and other nuclear powers have several nuclear missiles, and perhaps weaponized satellites, designed to lay down EMP over continent-size areas instantaneously. While every nation on Earth is vulnerable to attack from the United States, the United States is vulnerable, indeed defenseless, to a secret class of nuclear weapons which has captured the attention of the major nuclear powers--China, Russia, Britain, France, and the United States itself--for the past thirty-eight years.
Dr. Wood noted that hardening systems to withstand EMP is a small part of the cost, if done as part of the initial design. Yet no civilian and few military systems have been hardened to resist EMP. However, I respectfully disagree with Dr. Wood's recommendation that any civilian hardening to protect us from EMP be done. After a flirtation with civil defense and bomb shelters, Americans realize that nuclear attack against the United States is not something they are willing to prepare for because there is no rational way to prepare for it.
The United States and Russia took different approaches to EMP warfare from the outset, stated Dr. Wood: "The Soviets basically decided that EMP represented not only an exceptionally severe threat to the integrity of their military apparatus and their civilian infrastructure, but also offered extraordinary opportunities to their strategic offensive forces." The Russians now have inherited "more than a dozen Soviet SS-18 ICBM's which carried large unitary warheads in the 10 megaton class that were believed to have the primary function and military role of conducting an extremely severe military EMP laydown":
"That EMP strike component exists today in the Russian strategic order-of-battle, moreover at its maximum Cold War strength. I very confidently predict that it will be one of the last features of Soviet strategic nuclear weaponry to be retired from the Russian force structure."
The Russians have done much more EMP hardening and military/civilian preparedness training than has the United States, testified Dr. Wood. "We Americans, in contrast, collectively saw EMP as a major nuisance which could be rather precisely understood, defended against 'good enough' and thereafter largely ignored." Satellites are especially vulnerable to the x-rays and gamma rays from a high-altitude nuclear explosion, which is different from atmospheric EMP but radiated spherically around the explosion. No United States satellites, he added, can be considered reliably protected from space EMP, because EMP testing of protective systems is erratic.
If the USSR had known what they were doing, they would have known this, but having worked with Russian electronic Engineers, this was something they just weren't aware of.
The integrated circuit, the microprocessor, put the U.S decades ahead of the Soviets, and the rest of the world for that matter.
Having worked in Aerospace for several years, I know a little about the subject. Computer controlled electronics greatly enhance instrumentation and controls to a degree that few can appreciate. Supersonic missiles are not easy to turn and maintain control, especially in short distances, like less than 2KM. Without wings, there isn't a whole lot to stabilize maneuvers. I completely doubt that the soviets have the microprocessors or the software capable of generating the real time control needed to accomplish such feats.
Can you name some commercially viable Russian made computers? Where is the evidence that Russia has leaped to the leading edge of computer technology? Do you really think that Russia can best U.S. technology using U.S. computers that the U.S. allows to be sold internationally?
You might want to consider that the military industrial complex in both the U.S. and Russia have vested interest in resuming the cold war, not to mention the IC's and the NWO. Don't buy into the smoke and mirrors.
Originally posted by poet1b
The U.S. pulled out of Vietnam because of the massive protests taking place in the U.S., mainly because of the draft. At that time kill ratios of the U.S. to the Viets, who were highly skilled in jungle warfare, tactically, were still 10 to 1.
With technological advances currently kill rations of U.S. soldiers verses others is around 100 to 1, and those odds are only going to increase in U.S. favor. Sorry, but technological superiority has been winning out since the Persians attacked the Greeks, and no doubt long before that.
Russia never had a chance to take Europe, in that respect they have always been a paper tiger, and the results of the meeting of U.S. tanks with Soviet tanks proved that.
The only thing that stops the U.S. military from doing whatever it wants to do is the U.S. public's will to do such things.
Unlke Russia, the U.S. can back its talk of technological superiority by our commercial success. Russians today use computers design by the U.S., primarily built by U.S. companies, as least the most critical parts, and the same is true for almost all technology.
If the Soviets are leading in all of these technologies, then were is their commercial products to back up their technological superiority. If they are sooo far ahead in everything, you'd think they might be able to sell stuff that isn't currently based on their state of the art technology. You're talking out your arse, and you know is as well as everyone else.
Mobile Laser Technological Complex MLTK-50 for Remote Cutting of Metal Structures. Authors: Vostrikov V.G.1; Gavrilyuk V.D.1; Krasyukov A.G.1; Naumov V.G.1; .
Nanotechnology, give me a break, Russia is decades behind on developing microprocessors, they haven't mastered the basics in minaterization, yet they are ahead in nanotechnology?
In 1952 Radushkevich and Lukyanovich published clear images of 50 nanometer diameter tubes made of carbon in the Soviet Journal of Physical Chemistry. This discovery was largely unnoticed, the article was published in the Russian language, and Western scientists' access to Soviet press was limited during the Cold War.
In the 1950s, while American industry started manufacturing diamonds at 2,000 degrees C and 55,000 atmospheres pressure, Soviet scientists developed a vapor deposition method for growing diamond fibers at 1,000 degrees C and low pressures.
During the 1960s and 1970s, the Soviet group improved on this process, aiming to produce diamond films.
The technological implications of diamond films have recently been realized in Japan and the U.S., and so a race has begun to develop this technology. Dramatic discoveries are being made:
At the University of Texas 10-nanosecond laser pulses are being used to vaporize graphite, which then deposits as a film 20 nm thick over areas as large as 10 square centimeters. The film is diamond-like, but may turn out to be something new. 
Soviet researchers report the discovery of a new form of carbon much harder than diamond, called C8. They use an ion beam of low energy to produce thin films of the substance. Carbon atoms in C8 appear to have tetrahedral bonds, but the lattice is somehow different than in diamond--it may simply be somewhat random, resembling a glass rather than a crystal.
Much of the new interest in diamond is motivated by near-term commercial applications like diamond-coated razor blades, scratch-resistant windows and radiation-resistant semiconductors for nuclear missiles. The C8 results, however, are of special relevance to nanotechnology, showing us that diamond is just the default form of more general tetrahedral bonding patterns for carbon. Choosing from among the many possible departures from crystalline regularity may turn out to be an important of nanomachine design.
Diamond is in the news, and this is good news for nanotechnology. Diamond is a prime candidate material for building nanomachines for several reasons: the tetrahedral geometry of its bonds lets it be shaped in three dimensions without becoming floppy; it is made of carbon, the chemistry of which is well understood; and carbon atoms make a variety of useful bonds with other types of atoms. Diamond research may therefore advance nanotechnology even when it is pursued for its short-term commercial potential. Progress in understanding and making diamonds has been driven mainly by work done in the Soviet Union
If Russia has such advance laser technology, they should be concentrating on developing some commercial success with this technology, rather than selling misiles that can hide behind classified technology.
Mobile Laser Technological Complex MLTK-50 for Remote Cutting of Metal Structures. Authors: Vostrikov V.G.1; Gavrilyuk V.D.1; Krasyukov A.G.1; Naumov V.G.1; .
Oh yeah, the U.S. proved the effectiveness of their anti-tank weapons in Afgahnistan back in the eighties. Big deal. You are clutching straws.
Big deal. You are clutching straws
"The USSR were not , and probably could not be according to most ( North Korea continues to exist.....) , 'defeated' by advanced technology or anything as silly. As compared to the destructive capability the USSR had by the 80's no amount of transistors or integrated circuits were apparently enough to create equivalent power projection in the US."
The US had achieved relative high 'kill ratios' not because it employs more or better technology but basically because it's army is professional and well trained and organized having fought enough wars since the second world war to learn and adapt to mistakes.
The Pentagon has a “Balanced Electromagnetic Hardening” program. According to a budget item justification sheet, the program “provides the science and technology to ensure protection and survival of military battlefield and civilian infrastructure electronic systems against multiple electromagnetic environments, including nuclear electromagnetic pulse, high-power microwaves, as well as WMD threats. Designs and develops innovative, low-cost, balanced EM protection and test technologies for weapon systems; C3; and supporting infrastructure systems to the CINCs, services and other DoD agencies.”
Although information on military EMI/EMP hardening is classified, Wilson suggested that DoD is paying attention to the issue. “It is not something they are ignoring,” he said.
MLTK-50” MOBILE LASER COMPLEX
“Gazobezopasnost” Firm together with Troitsk Institute of innovative and thermonuclear investigations have developed and produces “МЛТК-50” Mobile Laser Complex for gas industry due to necessity of remote cutting of metallic constructions during emergency & restoration work at gas, gas-oil, gas-condensate blowout wells, including burning ones.
The periodically pulsing electric ionization CO2 - laser has radiation power of 50 kW. Laser ray of the unit can cut metal up to 80 mm thick at a distance up to
80 m, being remotely controlled. To determine the coordinates of metallic parts to be remotely cut, which can’t be seen because of smoke and flame of a burning well, the complex is equipped with a special laser locator, which controls the direction of a cutting laser ray. Laser can work during 1 - 10 Minutes with intervals between its activations about 30 Minutes.
The complex is usually transported on two serial automobile semi-trailers. This equipment can be transported in containers by railway. The cooling system of the equipment is water self-propelled one. Electric supply of the unit is required about 600 kW to make the unit function. Operative service personnel of the unit consists of 3 persons.
So, you don't believe in the concept of opportunity for all, well that is your problem. While the U.S. doesn't always succeed in providing opportunity for all, we lead the world in providing opportunity for all, which is why we lead the world. See above.