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Time to Get Out of the City?

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posted on Aug, 29 2008 @ 06:00 AM
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This is a serious question

Is it time to get the heck out of a city if you live in one?

Reports that the US is going into Iran become more serious every day and this crisis with Russia is an unexpected event that seems to me to have the potential to bring things to a head much faster than I had ever expected.

Truth be told I had planned on getting out within a years time, just keeping my place in the city for weekends and trips down for fun and shopping etc.

But I am feeling deep in my gut that... I just dont actually have the time to set myself up properly

If I head for the hills now, financially i'll be ruined, I just restarted my business after a divorce and my ex and kids are in a very small town and avery safe place even in the event of a nuclear war...

I'm talking B F Nowhere USA on the side of the Navajo res...

and my plan called for, getting up some more money and taking a place up there by x-mas

I work on the net but right now need to meet with clients for my income...

If I just jet, I'll screw my financial life over but good including breaking a lease which is a haunting thing in this state... If nothing happens

But I have a feeling and it's nagging me... I don't have the 3-5 months I need to do this right

This whole thing feels like it is really going to go hot... and if it does it's time for those of us who are prudent to get out of dodge

So I guess what I am asking...

and I am sorry to phrase it this way

Is it time? Should those of us who haven't yet make due with what we have and get out now?

Because I am feeling like the IF we have lived with our whole lives has become when?

So when? When should the move be made? How much time do you all think we actually have?

Many people say...after the election, which i can do comfortable and then if nothing happens not ruin my life...

But am I alone in feeling like the whole timetable has been pushed up

That the danger time has been entered already

That I might not even have until x-mas?

And... frankly I live in Phx, McCains city.. around the corner from one of his apartments

and this city will go up like tinder in the event of sit x... it is a high target even for a single terrorist bomb because of a presidential candidate and because it would be ... if you had one bomb to use, the single highest death toll you could get given the dryness, lack of water and the sprawl of cheep houses made of block which...burns at alot lower temperature than brick... a Bomb here would be lethal to the populace and it's proximity to Mexico makes it an easy access spot for a snuck in bomb...

and thats not even entertaining a nuclear exchange with Russia in which there is the largest Nuke plant in the world here an airforce base it's the fifth most populated city in America and largest in land area

quite a target

and...

When I was a child I had a dream of escaping a Place... moments before it burned to the ground that has haunted me and I feel like, that dream was about now, that this city takes a shot

and I am asking myself watching world events... if I screwed up the timeline

I am honestly 90% dead on in terms of my predictions, not claiming psychic, just... I was a Doogie Hauser as a kid, tested for college in 3rd grade and (my mother didn't let me go that young) but I was a prodigy

I have... very rarely been wrong in what I predict... I just have no sense of time at all, timelines elude me alot...

up to this point, I have always been early i.e. I believe something will happen and then am suprised how long it takes... my biggest fault in business too...

But this situation has thrown me for a loop... I am seriously wondering if I have under estimated the timeline of WW3

So how long do you think we have... I am not asking IF, I feel this is now ALMOST inevitable and as i said, I have rarely been wrong

I sincerely hope this time I am...

But he question posed is... How long before we should leave the city behind?

Should I do this in haste? Now... do it messy, or do I have the months ahead


My senses are telling me to go, concentration is not coming easy to me... I spend most of my day doing research instead of working now... like watching a movie unfold, mesmerized by the events that seem to be unfolding, it's like watching a car accident, it's horrifying but you can't avert your eyes

I have a probability matrix in my head that rarely fails me, I beat a Harvard student who was on the Chess team the first time I ever played the game...

and I see very few moves ahead that can avoid this... every path I follow with my mind leads to a bad scenario right now.

Myhead tells me we crossed the 90% line this week, the only difference in any scenario I see is the time line

The 10% involves very far flung possibilities or random occourances that change the scenario itself... it doesn't give me much hope...

I'm thinking 35-50% before X-mas for sit X and that is way out of my comfort zone

is way out of my comfort zone

what do you guys think?

I suppose the only reason I have not done this is... the possibility is real to avoid this 10% is 10% and I belive that our thoughts affect our realities, so I do not want to be part of... the cause by my actions, people tend to follow me and... I don't wish to be the guy that yells fire in the movie theater and be wrong and cost myself and others

But I have to ask other people... how do you feel, is it time to go?




posted on Aug, 29 2008 @ 06:03 AM
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reply to post by mopusvindictus
 


I would say no.
there is no need to jack your job and run for the hills so to speak.
Maybe if something kicks off, consider it seriously, but i wouldn't be too hasty.



posted on Aug, 29 2008 @ 06:31 AM
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Think I read a post on here somewhere that if you notice a huge drop in numbers of 'ethnic' populace, think it was young hispanic men ( apparently all gang members of some such gang) plus their families then according to the thread a threat is imminent.
Apparently these 'gang' members have their hands on information from the drugs cartels who are supplied by the drug manufacturers (ie terror groups such as al'quiada) or how ever its spelt. They give their people the nod that something is going to happen like a nuke going off. Then the rats leave the sinking ship. So look up the post on ATS for the post, and then head to the hills. Think that 6 cities where mentioned as well.
Before the posts come thick and fast saying I'm racist , for the record I ain't, I'm just quoting a post I spotted on here somewhere a long time ago.
I just remember it saying that a lot of hispanic men (NOT ALL) where part of this gang which has a very large number of members.
My advice is just be wary of who is around and soon enough you'll see either a huge drop in numbers of different types of people or something will look 'out of place'.
Don't give everything up just yet though.



posted on Aug, 29 2008 @ 06:44 AM
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Yeah, obviously if I am still here I am still in that sentiment

But, it's not like there is much time if it gets serious

What has me most disturbed is that unlike Iraq, there is no timetable, as Russia swept into Georgia I am thinking we will Blitz Iran

and if it goes, there may not be that warning... and I think that depite any need for secrecy in an Attack, that's just not the way we should do this, it's irresponsable to Americans, soldiers choose to fight, I am a pedestrian that has had his street light taken away...

and I'm really, really uncomfortable not being able to make proper risk assesments in my life...

This situation could come down in the course of a day and in a matter of weeks If the reports on an immenent attack on Iran are true...

anyone of a handful of very negative scenarios could unfold

and I'm the First guy to rave about our military tech and I know that we can defend against even an onslaught from Russia

But no matter what, we won't go unscathed and if we are going this route

The people have a right to know and prepare properly for that situation...

Not be told day after day that we are not going to do it and then suprise WW3

The various foreign news sources of an impending attack on Iran while Russia is staring us down is serious

If this is our course of action i shouldn't have to make...educated guesses as to what to do...

I'm sorry, but advanced notice could cost the lives of... professionals who know their risks and have famalies prepared mentally and emotionally (as best you can be I suppose) for the loss.... and not telling the American people puts, risks into the lives of ordinary citizens enjoying lunch on a random Tuesday

I'm sorry but... I just am unnerved for the first time really in all of this by the complete and absolute lack of information being given to the public...

I HATE not being given the scenario that I am living in... I can plot, anything and when went to war the first time... I had all the information I needed

This... this is like being a rat in a cage at monsanto



posted on Aug, 29 2008 @ 06:58 AM
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reply to post by DataWraith
 


Terorist attack is possible if we attack Iran... but quite certain that would be biological, they have a very strong biological capacity, a terror nuke would be weak and on the ground and downtown and that is not quite as threatening...

As I just described... not knowing if we are going into Iran while confronting Russia is my real concern

Not being told the truth.. this is the biggest deception yet and I know ther are reasons to keep it secret... but too many reports coming first kuwait, Now Europe of immenent attack and at the same time we are being told...

No way we aren't going to do it... and this could lead to a Nuke exchange the same cockamamie day and I'm liable to be asleep when a suprise attack comes and have zero preperation

It's an abysmal out of control way to treat the public


and oh yeah... I'm in Phx AZ...sooo if enough of the 3 Million or so iMexicans vanish then i'll know... Fanastic, I feel better already...

I'll be sure to look out for that...


seriously I mean it makes sense...but lol you know Phx at all lol? Looking for out of place hispanics? Holy Moly...

My only hope would be given we are talking about gangsters... get myself a coke habit and wait for two unanswered pages in a row...



posted on Aug, 29 2008 @ 07:05 AM
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As the guy says, “Don’t run for hills just yet.”

Here is why:
What protection do you think the hills around such a serious target as you say that you live in would provide? Modern nuclear weapons are multiple warhead missiles. Meaning that if your city is targeted for destruction then it will be hit multiple times in a wide pattern of destruction. This is the reason that the government decided to stop spending money of Civil Defense operations for the public.

Besides, mutually assured destruction is almost off the table completely these days. Yet this is precisely why nuclear war is more likely today than yesterday. The term that military planners frighteningly use these days is “Limited Nuclear War.” This term is to say that agreements are believed to be able to be made that say, “We will only attack military targets if you do.” or some other nonsensical agreement. As well, military planners also foolishly believe that nuclear war might go along the lines of we shoot one for every one they shoot or some other limiting factor.

Either way, the only sane and prudent thing that I think (I could be wrong) that you should do is the following:

Move yes, but not to quit your job and move out to the country. But move to a location within your city that provides a better access to escape from the city and better protection within it. A bomb shelter / fallout shelter is what you would need in the most immediate events. You have to remember that a dirty bomb, chemical bomb, or biological outbreak is the most likely terrorist mass casualty scenario on the books these days. What you need is a safe place, and finding one within the city is probably a better option than running away to the country.

One of the reasons for this is what happened after Hiroshima and Nagasaki were attacked with A-bombs. After the attacks everyone instinctively fled the city and ran to the hills. If you moved to a location along one of the major exits from your city and it got attacked then you are right in the path of the tornado so to speak of refugees and survivors, no matter what the travesty is. Sometimes finding a safe place in the middle of a storm is much better than trying to survive on the outskirts of one. Other people are going to be your biggest concern if you survive an attack.

Moving to an apartment underground within the city is probably best. Study the layout of the old Civil Defense shelters in your city if you have them. Where are they? How are they built? What exits or vital services are they close too. Remember that it is hoped that order would return to your city in the event of any attack or catastrophe, being inside the city close to vital buildings might actually be a good long term survival strategy if you could find adequate blast and fallout protection.

As well, talk to your local department of Homeland Security representative and ask them what they recommend. I would imagine that some of them would actually have good and helpful advice for you.

Get a gun and a concealed weapons license. The point of preparations for emergencies is because you have no idea what’s going to happen. If you don’t all ready carry a gun and know how to use it, what good is it to have shelter and supplies. Criminals are going to have a hey day with you if you survive and do not have weapons and training on how to use them. And an AK47 locked up the closet is nice, but when things hit the fan it’s going to be what your carrying that you will most likely need. Hey, you wanted real advice, so here it is. You will most likely not be at home when something happens if you are like most people. You will be at work, or driving to and fro, or shopping or some other activity either because you are caught off guard, or precisely because you are out getting last minuet supplies or doing last minuet things in the event of eminent attack or disaster. Get a gun and a concealed carry licence.

Make a disaster supplies check list and a bug out bag. If things get bad its best to have an evacuation plan. This is also why moving to the country is not a good idea. It would be a waste of time and money to move to the country only to find out that you will have to evacuate from your so-called secure, county home. You need to plan for the event of having to leave your area entirely, either by choice or also by force. You have to remember that we have the Department of Homeland Security now and that department is over every other law enforcement department in our country. If they come knocking on your door and tell you to leave, you really don’t have much choice in the matter if they are forcing you to go. Do you have any camping type supplies? MRE’s or water tablets? How about a compass and a map of your area? If things get destroyed and you somehow survive then your area will most certainly look different than normal. You might not be able to tell which end is up and which end is down, even in a mild attack of some kind.

Do you have any food in long term storage. I don’t know if you know this, but you can get freeze dried food that will last for 30 years or more. I recommend that you get some because all you need to reconstitute it is hot water. And if you can’t find a way to make hot water then your pretty screwed anyway. Even cold water will reconstitute the food, but it will certainly take a much longer time.

Do you have any precious metals or other valuable that you can trade with. I don’t know if you know this but they say that heavy metals absorb and hold radiation like the dickens. Gold and silver might be dangerous to carry around just because of radiation. Speaking of radiation you would want to have some radiation pills also. They are cheap and if you need to evacuate they might end up saving your life if you have to go though a dirty bomb or other fallout contamination area.

Do you have any books about survival. There is a book called Nuclear war survival skills. You can download it for free. I suggest that you start there.



posted on Aug, 29 2008 @ 07:16 AM
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Does anyone have any ideas about how a war in Iran would affect the UK...it's almost always been the case that my country "lends a hand" to America, so what position would we be in....if nukes got involved, would the UK be targetted as well ?



posted on Aug, 29 2008 @ 07:23 AM
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The good thing about criminals running the world is that they need a market for their products. The last thing they need is an all out world war, it is not good for business.
They fight for control over small countries with lots of resources but they do not fight eachother directly. So, I think we can breathe for now.

I think that the biggest threat could come from an unexpected coup d'etat in a country with nuclear arsenal, like Pakistan. If a group of fanatics takes over then we could be in deep s***.



posted on Aug, 29 2008 @ 07:34 AM
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I left. But it was after 9-11. We lived in Bayonne, right across the river from NYC.. If something ever went down, we would feel the effects immediately. We moved to FL, but with all the talk of Florida sinking in a couple years, the talk of nuclear war, and hurricanes, we decided to move to the woods in PA. I feel so much safer now. I know if something ever happened, we are a cool 100 miles away from all major cities. My husband is crazy about keeping us safe in the case of a war. I must say, I sleep better at night knowing that if something went down, we have a little down time to figure out our next move as opposed to the people in the major cities. I would say its time to go, even if its just to help you sleep a little better at night. If something don't happen, at least your waking up to deer in your front yard and not traffic.



posted on Aug, 29 2008 @ 07:41 AM
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I can sympathize with your predicament mopusvindictus , I have also been contemplating whether now is the time we MUST leave or not. As soon as I read your post I got a very strange feeling, like a premonition that you're thoughts may be a prophecy of sorts. I too have had prophetic experiences, and I put a lot of faith in this gift along with my instincts.

I have been wondering if the time to head for the hills is approaching for about a year now. I've always told myself that when I see signs I'll seriously consider it. Well, a few things I've read recently about world events/timelines has me paying extra attention to my instincts. Plus, the intense dreams about nukes and my family trying to survive a post-Apocalyptic police state have not only become clearer but also more frequent over the past 3 months. I should add that these dreams are not the result of my worries about leaving because I most often have these dreams when I don't expect them (like when I'm not reading about current events/predictions/conspiracies/etc. the day before). If I go to sleep with a clear and calm mind I often have more vivid and lucid dreams. And the fact that I've been having recurring dreams about these end times scenarios is even more strange.

So anyways, I'm not sure if this is the time for people like us (those who are aware) to start leaving cities, but if you truly feel like you need to because something is telling you to, then I would seriously consider it. Pray, meditate, dream, whatever you do to seek guidance start doing it, and look for a sign. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and concerns. I hope everything works out for you in these tense and unpredictable times.

PS: You may find this ATS thread very interesting and relevant:

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Aug, 29 2008 @ 08:10 AM
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mopus... Rule #1: don't panic. Think this through. There's time.

Personally, I believe there is reason to be concerned. Not the least of which is the fact the PWB knows that any military confrontation will virtually assure a McCain (proxy for the status quo) presidential win.

Don't discount MAD for a moment. Every nuclear power out there knows what our response to a nuclear attack would be. We publish it. No country will risk the kind of devastation even a limited exchange would bring. Even the 'winner' would have most of its industrial, transportation, power and communications infrastructure destroyed. Along with a good portion of its military infrastructure. There's just no margin in a nuclear confrontation. All nuclear powers know that. It doesn't matter that the modern nuclear arsenal is significantly more accurate and warheads much smaller than the 60's vintage one. The economic impact of a 'limited' exchange would be crippling to both parties.

It's extemely unlike that Phoenix would be the locus for a terrorist nuclear attack if it were to happen. They would more likely look for a more 'prestigious' target --- no offense meant to Phoenix. You get my point.

All that said, I'm a firm believe in trust-your-gut. One caveat, we here on ATS tend to overload ourselves with doom-and-gloom information. That tends to skew our perceptions and raise our anxiety levels. Still, there are concrete reasons to be vigilant.

As has been suggested, there are some things you should do now:

* Copy all your business data, software, emails, contact info, etc. to DVDs, CDs, laptop so in an emergency you could move it. Yes, separating yourself from your clients would be potentially disasterous but that's the price you pay. But prepare yourself for worst-case-scenario now. At the same time assemble all important personal documents (insurance papers, vehicle titles, birth certificate... you get the idea).

* Contact your ex (if that's the locale to which you would relocate) and make whatever arrangements you can to use her home as a temporary destination if that's possible (depending upon your relationship with your ex). If unable, identify another destination (hotel, motel, whatever) but have a specific address. Map ALL potential routes to that destination.

* Service your vehicle. Keep it fully fueled.

* Assemble a cut-and-run (bug-out) package. The size of your vehicle will determine the size of your package. There are lots of articles out there that help with this aspect of planning.

* Firearms. Tough call. A firearms permit does NOT give you legal permission to carry beyond state lines. Since you are trying to get to a distant location I would not carry anything that could get you stopped or arrested along your route. Just my $.02 on that subject.

* Develop a written plan with 'trigger points'. So if such-and-such happens you will do this-and-that. Commit to it. This way there is no second guessing or time wasted re-assessing a situation that you've already assessed. When a certain type of event occurs you turn out the lights and hit the road --- hopefully before everyone else does.

Finally, do a risk assessment. Acting on this can have as large a life-changing effect as not acting. You need to carefully and dispassionately weigh that. Im not in a city so my planning (except for unique circumstances) revloves around shelter-in-place. The decision to cut-and-run is an extreme one and should not be taken lightly (despite what you may read here). You have a limited ability to control your environment when you SIP. You have none when you decide to CAR. Most people who advocate CAR are making assumptions of the situation-at-large along their proposed route. That cannot be guaranteed or predicted.

We all need to be vigilate, prepared but above all defer to intellect rather than emotions. Good luck. Good luck to all of us.



posted on Aug, 29 2008 @ 08:26 AM
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I think you have answered your own question in the OP.
The only thing weighing you down is the EXACT thing the NWO (or whoever) WANT to weigh you down: FINANCES.

You say you live in a tinderbox, high-value target zone.
You know that SitX is a very real possibility.
You don´t feel you have the time to prepare.

I (as in me, personally) would forget about my finances. I would concentrate on my LIFE, and long-term survival.
I would spend ALL my money and ALL my time in the coming 2 weeks getting as prepared as I could, and get the hell out of there!

People say "We are living in interesting times".

In my opinion you can substitute the word "interesting" with any of the following:

Dangerous
Frightening
Unstable
Volatile
F****ed up

Take your pick.

Good luck to you.



posted on Aug, 29 2008 @ 08:29 AM
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reply to post by Psychopump
 


nice one... :-)

def well said and well summarized !!!

snoopyuk



posted on Aug, 29 2008 @ 09:35 AM
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It would probably be the same type of attack as on 7/7( suicide bombings)(more guaranteed to work), Unless it'll be like the IRA tactics of the 70's through 90's of leaving bombs in civilian areas and then scarpering and hoping it goes off. Failing that the other option is biological attack, anthrax letters to people (difficult to get materials) . But the most likely in the years I've been working in London is the IRA method of bombing.
The materials to make them is easily accessible and tech specs on how to make a makeshift bomb are readily available on the net. Pipebombs are small and would be missed in a litterbin and if I wanted to I'm sure I could make them and I'm not even technically minded. So your average Joe Terrorist can make them easy enough.
Plus the fear factor of a few going off, and then JT saying "we have more out there" will cause more apprehension as people won't want to leave their homes.
A large scale attack , nuke and such like is a less likely option in my humble opinion.



posted on Aug, 29 2008 @ 05:41 PM
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reply to post by Hot_Wings
 


Well, "the hills is an expression" My family is 450 miles out of the city alongside the Navajo reservation.

And we are talking about a 6,000 foot increase in terrain altitude between here and there and it's north and prevailing winds go East, Never ever is there a South North flow up the Rim...

There are severe targets but none closer than 300-400 miles, the closest target period for an all out attack would be Flaggstaff and that's 100 miles away

Power locally is supplied by Cholla which is Coal driven, so the lights will stay on or go back on following an attack, it's an extremly low priority target suoolying power to maybe 50,000 people total (if that many)

Further the Navajo Res has quite an ample power station to be drawn on capable of handling the whole area and I doubt highly any missiles anywhere are pointed at the res

Water locally is drawn from the coconino aquifer, it's massive runs under the entirety of the navajo res... depth is at 1,600 ft and there is another aquifer the Limestone at 3,000 feet, both have local wells...

at those depths 1,600 feet of filtration the ground water should not be tainted from fallout...possibly ever regardless of scenario a worst case event woul leave many, many months to store water after an attack

So...

My loc, where I have my family is singularly one of the most desolate places in the region, for fall back in the event of having to leave town I'd have the entire reservation, the gradcanyon and the entire rim to choose from, 10's of thousands of miles of protected wilderness and technically, non american soil

water, basements, and power would all remain viable, solar is an option with 290 sunlight days, yet at 6,000 feet snow and rain are common, daily rain in summer almost for a couple of hrs and tempertaures never gets too hot or too cold


No telling what the winds will do in a situation but currently most wind blows down around us that comes through nevada and so cal, the local winds are very localized, they tend to come down from Flagg in the mts and rip very fast across the plateau. Anything from the west coast, LA or via the hoover dam or vegas, almost always is blocked and goes south before coming up around the otherside of the rim...

So the only fallout in theory would be IF Flggstaff was hit and...it's not a Military target has a limited university and a population just over 50,000 which makes it in theory a target, but the lowest ranking priority in terms of hitting a population center

I know it was targeted during the cold war, but with missile reductions and the fact that at least half to 2/3rd of missiles will target military and other missile sites... I sincerly doubt I have a target within 400 miles of my loc

and those there are, most of the fallout should blow right around the loc

So I have done my homework... I have a great spot



posted on Aug, 29 2008 @ 05:44 PM
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reply to post by Psychopump
 


Yeah... I know, the weight isn't material greed... I am close to being able to purchase land with a well in my desired location and family currently up there is renting, and I know people and it's a close community, i'd be okay

But with that said... Land with a well and an aquifer 1,600 ft down for the price would make me feel a lot more secure... and I could do it by xmas I think, it's alot more security if I pull it off in time



posted on Aug, 29 2008 @ 05:48 PM
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whatever i believe we all die everyday whether by a horrible accident, murder or in our sleep all just to wake up another day inside the experiment just to die another day its like the movie ground hog day



posted on Aug, 29 2008 @ 05:51 PM
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reply to post by jtma508
 


I have everything on your list handled but the business data, but that could be droped from my computer by taking the HD and I do have sealed case...

But thanks and yeah... people should head that

I do disagree on Phx as a Target

A: it's Mccains city

B: Largest land area city in America

C: no 5 in population now

D: Paulo Verde, Largest Nuclear Power Plant in America

E: Conditions, the power plant, road access and water make it the single largest possible death toll for an attack

F: Not unsubstantial military pressence

G: extreme accumulation of wealth, far more than most people realize

H: access and proximity to Mexico for infiltration of a device



posted on Aug, 29 2008 @ 05:55 PM
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reply to post by KaginD
 


I was in NYC for 9-11, on the Brookly Bridge in fact siiigh

Made the move and started planning about 2 years later

I consider parts of PA to be fantastic price and environment wise, my only concern in that area is fallout, but it's beautiful... those 2 stinkin Nuke plants give me pause though

Ideally life remains in control and in a few years I will grab something cheep in PA for some of the year... I miss visiting NYC alot

and yeah...

I never thought once about survival until I had children, your husband isn't alone in that.



posted on Aug, 29 2008 @ 06:00 PM
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reply to post by cosmicpixie
 


UK is not a horrible scenario, if you have a way to survive the initial blasts, your not going to have a huge fallout issue...

winds will blow most away from the isles, what does fall, your surrounded by ocean washing it clear is doable... any fallout from America will have to cross 3,500 miles with most of it landing in the ocean and your position doesn't leave you right in any particular stream of it either.

UK out of a city and enough distance from military location with a good shelter your probably going to live

The Big concern would be Nuclear winter as your Isles will be frozen in like an Iceage for quite sometime, food will become the largest post apocalyptic issue you have on the isles



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