Fossils on Mars - A Collection of Evidence

and I guess NASA should really recruit a biologist ,doesn't she?


see,it seems logical to me "my dear Watson" (couldn't resist)
that if I was a scientist working for NASA and searching for possible life on Mars, past or present,...
...that some rocks would indeed attract my attention, being fossil/bone like-ish that is...
I would use rovers apparattus to analyze such rocks of interest, on organic molecules to be precise, among all those rock and dirt geological deposit analyses of course...

for after all how can one differ a rock from a bone?
both are solid,quite the same colour and visual density...
all that may differ a bone from a rock up there ARE biological marks that coincide with a real bone anatomy

how can they know if they NEVER look for life remains other than ground molecular analysis?with all these suspectfull looking "rocks" lying out there...

well I guess they lack a biologist up there to tell them:
"hey,that could be a bone? or a fossil? let's analyze it for organics!"

they never do that...
cause rovers and landers up there don't even have the real organic analyzing apparatus to my knowledge...
at least not those that the geneal public knows of...

Not when you offer no evidence to back up your claim.


right
I'm just offering more arguments than you in this case...

Evidence is not up to you or me...it's up to NASA since the agency is the ONLY evidential entity up there on Mars

What arguements are you presenting? That you have some form of biologist background and it looks that way to you?



Actually, if you're going to say you are 90% certain that a picture of a rock is a hipbone fossil, then you need to provide some structured reasoning, comparison, analysis and evidence why. You can't say 'well it looks like that to me, so it is' and expect people to believe you...

What arguements are you presenting? That you have some form of biologist background and it looks that way to you?

you are being childish...
look up the difference in terms between an argument and an evidence

....
Actually, if you're going to say you are 90% certain that a picture of a rock is a hipbone fossil, then you need to provide some structured reasoning, comparison, analysis and evidence why. You can't say 'well it looks like that to me, so it is' and expect people to believe you...

Umm why are you picking on ArMaP? His contribution was finding that the two images were not as presented and worked hard to find the originals... I say he did a fine job on that...

Seriously some of you really need to read a bit better before tossing comments out

reply to post by darkraver

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to get more to the subject at hand
here is another QUITE interesting picture from the "infamous" mr. Skipper




must be a rock...but leaving a snail-like trail behind?
it must be Phoenix playing a cat-mouse game with it

forgot the link:
www.nasa.gov...:

[edit on 29-8-2008 by darkraver]

reply to post by zorgon

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Zorgon, please lead me to the original image that the trilobite photo is from if you can? Thanks?

At this point I would just like to say well done and thank you to Zorgon and Armap!!
Had this have come from anyone but you two (or a select few other members )I would have to seriously consider the credibility of the info but considering the source I am satisfied.
I dont have much more than that at the moment until I have had time to digest it all.

Yes that was the whole point it WAS maniputalted but until we found the originals to look at we had no way to know this...

Since the images are in the NASA presentation at the time there was only NASA's word... with no explanation

Now to have put all the data and full images into the thread would not have fit so I linked to THIS PAGE
www.thelivingmoon.com...

That has all the data, all the links to the original images we found and worked with. The reason I create the pages is so I don't have to repost it every time and slow down the thread loading anymore than I already do

Sadly few ever follow the links...

The point on this was that the presentation was not for the public in general but for a science symposium. I found it by fluke originally...

So was this done as a joke for the presentation, was it done to 'muddy the waters', or are the images we did find edited? Since there was no image # provided in the NASA paper... it took a long time to find them. Thanks to ArMaP for tracking them down

The rock 'Humphry' is a chuck of Basalt... its black that has been whitened and polished smooth by wind... As such there could be no fossil in it as basalt is volcanic not sedimentary...

So why did they chose to present it in that way? One image showing an obvious fossil Trilobite and the other an artifact?

I would have loved to hear that presentation

Don't call me childish. I know the difference, I'm not certain you do.



No, comparison is to post a picture of the kind of hipbone you are talking about and showing the similarities directly. I can easily provide evidence that it is a rock. It's on the surface of a planet and is neither animal nor vegitable manner, which leads me to thinking it;s mineral. Maybe it's metalic rather than rock.



As there is no evidence, compelling or otherwise to the contrary, yes.



Nope. You are claiming it to be something other than what most ordinary observers would claim. It's your extroadinary claim, you provide the extroadinary evidence to back it up.



Excellent, because untill you provide evidence, or more structured reasoning than 'it looks like kinda a hipbone', I won;t believe you.



Deny Ignorance and provide actual evidence of your claim, is mine. You are the one claiming that it is something not ordinary, so therefore, you must give proof for it. The burden is on the person proving something...

reply to post by darkraver

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Is that a snail-like trail?

It looks nothing like the homogeneous, lubricated trails snails make, it looks more like a trail made by something that rolled over itself.

But this is just the opinion of self-taught programmer.

Hey zorgon, any chance you could suggest why you think that the images from the Nasa slideshow were not manipulated for the purposes of the lecture it was for? To me they are obvious fakes used to prove a point, but keep mentioning it as if you think there is more to it.

Oh, and hey, you're talking about them again. Yet you told me that I was basically de-railing the thread when I questioned you earlier about them?...

reply to post by zorgon

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It has got to be a joke. I found that rock in a pic I had. I don't know the source and I see you also have a copy. Here is a crop of the circled area and a little more.



You are correct. That is rhyolitic rock and no fossil is possible. I see some of the same type of rock as the supposed bones, also Igneous, with the expected pockets and conchoidal fracture.

They are playing a game. I did misunderstand at first.

The only reason Marsanomaly Research enters into this is because I gave credit to 'first find' to Skipper on the skull like objects... all the reats are from NASA and Livingmoon...



Well not quite true my friend

Couple notes passed on to me from someone 'in the field'

"The Lunar Ranger utilized alpha-scatter identification capability along with LLRI capability used to determine soil composition... "

"For example, the Mars Rover (Spirit) is actually a micro-mining laboratory, complete with (2) spectrometers and other processing equipment/instrumentation. "




in another clip we have this...



marsrovers.nasa.gov...

Well since I am currently out of fossils I will toss in a few other minerals into the pot...

reply to post by zorgon

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That artifact, I believe, is not a verified image but more a possibility given the PDF document it comes from has a scale with images, going from null (barren terrain) to unfathomable (this artifact).

And to be honest, it looks like an old car door handle. Id not put too much consideration into those images, they seem to be more thought provoking items rather than evidence towards artifacts/life on mars.

Otherwise great thread !!

Here is a picture of the salts stirred up using the Rover wheels as a digging tool..
Spirit :: Panoramic Camera :: Sol 788






Here is a specimen of Vesicular Basalt from the same location
Spirit :: Panoramic Camera :: Sol 736


And here is a piece from Nevada in my collection - for color reference

reply to post by Vector J

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well ,if i really must...
here you go:

images.google.hr...://www.spjc.edu/hec/VT/VTDE/Anatomy/images/07_pelvis_sacrum.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.spjc.edu/hec/VT/VTDE/An atomy/3a.htm&h=768&w=574&sz=250&hl=hr&start=139&sig2=EYzBLn3waZEdhuXoRbXKnA&um=1&usg=__ulKiWodjJCV160t4mFTVbBN6y9E=&tbnid=HLXg9WjiyLNdEM:&tbnh=142&tbn w=106&ei=aqu4SJWPHoHW0AWrkcDyAQ&prev=/images%3Fq%3Ddog%2Bpelvis%26start%3D120%26ndsp%3D20%26um%3D1%26hl%3Dhr%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla: en-USfficial%26sa%3DN

images.google.hr...://www.spjc.edu/hec/VT/VTDE/Anatomy/images/07_pelvis_sacrum.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.spjc.edu/hec/VT/VTDE/An atomy/3a.htm&h=768&w=574&sz=250&hl=hr&start=139&sig2=EYzBLn3waZEdhuXoRbXKnA&um=1&usg=__ulKiWodjJCV160t4mFTVbBN6y9E=&tbnid=HLXg9WjiyLNdEM:&tbnh=142&tbn w=106&ei=aqu4SJWPHoHW0AWrkcDyAQ&prev=/images%3Fq%3Ddog%2Bpelvis%26start%3D120%26ndsp%3D20%26um%3D1%26hl%3Dhr%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla: en-USfficial%26sa%3DN

although you must put it in a right perspective,be visual...

hope you're able to see the similarities...I just "dun't have the time to picture it for ya'"

reply to post by bloodcircle

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Genius. Star for you my friend! That's uncanny! Whether or not that is infact the kind of object they used for their mock up, that is an excellent suggestion.

See rorshach guys. this is what i'm talking about. comparable things. If you say 'hey, this is a building!' or 'whoa, this is a hipbone!' and provide no coroborating evidence, what water does that arguement hold? And here we have bloodcircle saying, hey that looks fake, and here is an almost perfect example of what I think they used for it.

Thanks bloodcircle, thats a bloody brilliant post!...

And here are the Hematite nodules in sedimentary rock that NASA has labeled "Blueberries" Gotta love those scientists eh?

Opportunity :: Panoramic Camera :: Sol 037



A few close ups





[ats]http://www.thelivingmoon.com/43ancients/04images/Mars4/Opportunity_Sol_037/Blue_004.png[ats]

Opportunity :: Panoramic Camera :: Sol 040



But my absolute favorite is THIS one.. Mike Singh's MARTIAN SNAIL







[edit on 29-8-2008 by zorgon]

reply to post by darkraver

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Yes. You must.

Sadly your links don;t work. And I don;t care if you show me a picture of a huge amount of hipbones. You need to show one in a similar orientation and highlight the similarities in the original Mars picture you used...