Why Ghosts are not Real, page 7
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ATS Members have flagged this thread 14 times


reply posted on 28-8-2008 @ 11:14 PM by zysin5
reply to post by Soulstone



Hello Soulstone! I wish I had the answers you seek.. However what I came up with at one time was this thread here..


Paranormal beliefs linked to brain chemistry?
Check out this link here and take some time to think about the many ways of seeing this issue.

Truthfully we just dont have the answers.. Energy surrounds us at all times.
I have my own feelings and belifes about ghosts.. But I shall keep them to myself at this point.. I only know what Ive seen, and what Ive felt in my time on this earth.. And the truth is always stranger than fiction!


reply posted on 28-8-2008 @ 11:19 PM by Soulstone
reply to post by DraconianKing



I agree with your second paragraph. They may very well be some type of residual energy, like footprints.

Look into: TULPAS

www.davisanddavis.org...

www.mystae.com...


reply posted on 28-8-2008 @ 11:23 PM by dave420
reply to post by Soulstone



Or they might be figments of everyone's imagination - without evidence, it's entirely conjecture at this point

This discussion is like trying to figure out Bigfoot's favourite football team. No-one can say anything with any certainty, as we're discussing an entirely-unknown quantity.


reply posted on 28-8-2008 @ 11:29 PM by jwstarry
reply to post by dave420



So then I am "irrational" for having a personal experience that altered my perception of reality?

you said "You are embracing ignorance, not denying it. You are assuming truths based on intrinsically-flawed experiences."

By whos standards? Yours? You have already said that what you preceive can not always be reality. So what makes your preception real and mine flawed to the point of ignorance.

I am sorry I can not offer you "proof that would convince me". All I can offer you is my perception of reality which you have already judged flawed and ignorant and with that judgement already handed down my testimony would be irrelevant.


reply posted on 29-8-2008 @ 02:31 AM by dave420
reply to post by jwstarry



If it didn't make sense for it to alter your perception, then yes - that is irrational. It could easily be explained by natural phenomena, ones you might not understand. Again, another reason why you shouldn't trust your senses in such a way - you don't have all the answers, and to think your senses are perfect and that you do have the answers is arrogant:


ar·ro·gant –adjective
Making claims or pretensions to superior importance or rights; overbearingly assuming


You are indeed overbearingly assumptive if you think your experiences are the be-all and end-all of reality. Which you must, if you trust them so much to alter your perspective of the world.

I'm not talking about my perception, but logic; rationality. It is well-known that our senses get easily confused. That's how optical illusions work, and how the little experiment I talked about earlier in this very thread works. That is obvious to anyone. Therefor it is irrational to trust the senses to be accurate, which is what you are doing.

I haven't judged anything - logic has judged you, and logic says there's a distinct possibility that you are wrong. And as long as you are not 100% correct, assuming you are 100% is obviously irrational.

I'm sorry if you don't understand this. It's not my perception vs. yours, but your perception vs. logic. Logic won.


reply posted on 29-8-2008 @ 03:07 AM by DrumJunkie
The problem with controlling the "experiment" is one would need to go to the ghost. Not the other way around. This has been done for years. I don't know if that would qualify as a controlled experiment(s). In those experiments there have been countless evp that appeared to answer the questioner, objects that moved, personal experiences (touching etc.). One could hear the evp tapes and see video and there have been cases of more then one person or group over several years at places. I've read about these experiments for years but never believed them being I wasn't there so it could be faked.

All that was until I met my wife. In the years I've known her I've seen countless times things I can in no way explain. Seen them. heard them, caught them on video and audio tape. Seems she is some kind of magnet for such activity. I've seen her answer questions she could not know the answers to. I mean things about me or my family. From people that are not with us anymore. I have not had any real contact with my family for years before I met her due to things that have nothing to do with this thread but suffice to say no one (alive) could have told her.

We don't keep these tapes being I don't invest a lot of money in it and I no longer have a video cam. It was a lot of fun some years back but it's just part of daily life now and I really don't fool with it anymore. But I know it happened then...I know it does now.

I don't believe it to be irrational to believe what I've seen and put on tape. Many people have done it. Why is none of it logical? LoL! I chalk it up to denial...A very illogical and irrational action of it's own.


reply posted on 29-8-2008 @ 03:40 AM by nh_ee
I feel that with the advent of more portable electronic measurement equipment there will be the possibility of more measurable evidence of ghosts. There just isn't the financial interest backing such research.

Look at the electronic monitoring equipment used in hospitals to monitor our state of health. Once there are no longer any electrical energy or signals in which to be measured then we're officially determined to be dead.This we can prove and is a medically accepted fact.

Place a probe from an oscilloscope on your finger tip and you can measure your energy.

This energy or our soul as the bible would call it is what I feel is what we could call a ghost and being electromagnetic in nature exists in our atmosphere with all other electromagnetic energy once it has left the body.

Bear with me...

As with radio and gravity waves we can't see this energy but we know it exists but didn't understand how to prove this phenomenon until we discovered how to tune into their specific frequency and energy spectrum.

My feelings are that the energy spectrum associated with ghosts or the spiritual realm in itself are yet to be discovered.

Due to the natural minute nature of this energy it will require very sensitive instrumentation to measure and discern from the background noise and pollution created by our powered devices similar to that of RFI (Radio Frequency Interference).

Once this is achieved, similar to tuning into a radio station, will allow us to tune into this energy and better understand this phenomenon and will scientifically prove the existence of ghosts or spiritual energy for those that require such proof.


reply posted on 29-8-2008 @ 04:15 AM by dave420
reply to post by DrumJunkie



Because none of that constitutes actual evidence, just anecdotes. Evidence has to meet certain criteria before it is acceptable. You have to pin-down exactly what is causing these phenomena - if there is any doubt, it's not evidence. It sounds harsh, but it's the basis for every single scientific innovation human kind has witnessed in the last 1,000 years.

EVPs, videos, objects moving, all that can be explained away quite rationally. And as long as a rational explanation suffices, ignoring it is intrinsically irrational. One must err on the side of caution when trying to understand something, as it's far better to be half-way down the right path than all the way down the wrong one.

Learning and study isn't easy. And for good reason.

reply to post by nh_ee



There are some issues with what you propose. If human kind, or indeed electronics, or anything else in this world, can interact with ghosts, then science would have seen this 'energy spectrum', or at least the effects of it. As it is, there is no yearning chasm in our understanding of energy that human beings (or even EVP tape recorders) can sense. Since a ghost must be able to somehow interact with us for us to 'know' they are there, this should be but a mere formality.



reply posted on 29-8-2008 @ 05:16 AM by DrumJunkie
reply to post by dave420



Well...Being the area I live in is pretty sparsely populated area. In fact you wont see another living soul within eye shot of my house I can pretty much rule out someone else making these noises. No huge electrical towers, no swamp gas, radio/cell phone towers within miles of my property. Just the Mrs and me and a few cats..And I don't think any of my little feline friends speaks English. So being I can see the Mrs and I know where I am I can pretty much know what is not making these things happen. I don't drink,smoke pot or take other drugs so that rules out those sources of brain merriment. Just her. me and a tape recorder. Now I know I'm not at some lab in the big ol' city cause that will make it better but time and again I've seen and heard these things happen. Just what am I missing except a closed mind that refuses to admit this exists therefor opening a can of worms to a whole slew of new questions?

See, I have noticed that those that deny any type of supreme being exists will also deny the paranormal. Because no God means no soul that means no paranormal.

You know..I'm a God fearing man but I can still see evolution and how it has worked over time. I really believe that there is room for God in a world sterilized by science. I can't put God in a lab either but don't need to. but I also don't need to hit myself with a hammer to prove it will hurt. I just took my dad's word for it. you see he seen this guy do it once..Damn near killed him. But I really can't prove that.

Dang I need to proof read more


[edit on 8/29/2008 by DrumJunkie]


reply posted on 29-8-2008 @ 05:22 AM by DrumJunkie
reply to post by DraconianKing



I think you hit it right on the head. It's a mystery. And like many things in this crazy world we are in some things are a mystery until they are figured out. Science once the world was flat and there was no way to prove otherwise. Sure am glad that telescope guy..Gallon of Oleo?...was not killed before that pesky little science factoid was resolved
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