Why Ghosts are not Real

reply to post by dave420


But.. that is a theory in itself, that ghosts don't exist.

A leading theory is that, and this seems very probable in regards to how haunting activity seems to work, is that there isn't anything there to hold the spirits.

In some circles, 'Ghosts' aren't the free floating intelligent entities that everyone likes to believe they are. They are merely energy that has been stored in a physical object which is released at certain times, or is always released but only can be seen or expereinced by people sensitive to that energy. I am not talking about some sort of 'mystical esoteric energy', I am speaking of sub-atomic projection that are said to scatter from your head which increase during times of stress.

The conclusion I would come to as to why 3000 people aren't haunting the Ground Zero site is simply that there isn't anything left from the Twin Towers that could hold onto that energy. EVERYTHING was removed. The debris, the dirt, even piece of the infrastructure under the site.

I could imagine someplace like the Pentagon might have haunting activity associated with this event.

Just something to think about.

reply to post by dave420


I felt the urge to reply to your post. People who "believe" - gosh that old cherry, and double it up with notions like the tooth fairy and "santa claus" and well, yes, superfically it sounds exceedingly ridiculous and far-fetched. Which is why I cannot apply your glib rationale re people who believe to myself, though I fall within the camp of "believer" or at least, open-minded. ;-)

I have experienced, for want of a more appropriate word a "haunting"... and I am excruciatingly rational - I don't believe anything until it rings a bell of truthful reasonance and integrity with me. I know the mind plays tricks, and so does memory. But these experiences, no matter how you dress them down as infantile yearnings for mortality, DO occur and do (in my opinion) point to more than the standardised "materialist" view of reality. Whether it is an unrested spirit, entity, OR a recording (an echo) of a tragic event who can say...

Great that we have devils-advocate skeptics/rationalists in this world as someone has to hold a "belief" up to scrunity (Sam Harris in The End Of Faith for example), but what I often find is that the skeptic comes into the argument with their own preconceived notions which are hardly likely to be swayed if that intransigent.

People here should check out websites like scientist Dean Radin's Conscious Universe. Although I don't necessarily believe in the traditional view of an afterlife, these studies into the elusive nature consciousness itself may well hold the key to hauntings, clairvoyance, telepathy, etc.

Just my two-pence worth - now to retreat to lala land......reindeer at the ready... ;-)

The basic problem does seem to be how any energy matrix can be held stable and active without a form of some kind to lock it in. Even magnetic fields generally don't just appear in mid-space. They have a ferrous core of some kind.

Perhaps there's some kind of structure to time as it relates to perception that can provide a similar kind of core around which one of these consciousness/ energy things can form and linger. I don't know how one would test such a thing, though.

One way might be to find a ghost and blast it with a variable frequency microwave beam to see if it goes away. Unfortunately, they seem to be so unstable to begin with that it might be hard to tell if the focused microwave burst caused it to dissipate, or whether it did it on its own.

Otherwise, we have to rely on trapping the ghost or entity in some kind of already existing time/energy/consciousness field, such as generated by and sustained by the human brain. But that's not really much different than what happens at a seance. Could it be possible to create a mechanical, computerized structure that can be used to contain these things?

I don't know. Since we don't really have much of a handle on the nature of our own existence, it's kind of hard to figure out a way to work with something that might or might not exist in the same way we do.

Originally posted by Soulstone
Not realize they are dead? What the hell kind of argument is that. Of course you know when your dead.

Only if you are a ghost....right?

I'm curious, have any of you who insist that ghosts do not exist have proof? The same type of physical proof that you want from the believers?

reply to post by badgerprints


I don't think there is anyway to truly prove it. I have seen ghosts or whatever you want to call them all my life. And yes, people do think I am loopy, but, that is o.k. too because if I am delusional then it has been amazing adventure for the most part. There are a few things I hope to never see again!! There are a few incidents where other people actually saw the same thing that I did...... ....So if some one sees the same thing that you do, how do you explain that?!!!! And what about when some one else hears the same voices that you do.?!! I think that we humans are in the kindergarten stages of our science of understanding the paranormal. i did have some one to tell me that "ghosts" don't appear in areas where there is a lot of electromagnetism. Science will eventually conquer this mystery too......we now know the Earth is not flat

Some evidence?

Part1


Part2


Part3




Best EVP?


Have a nice one

reply to post by Anonymous ATS

Yeah exactly,what has been witnessed by me recently has also been witnessed by various other people,some are customers who have only been in the shop the once so have no direct relationship with the premises!
There are goings on there at least once a week! keeps all entertained lol

I continue to find this thread fascinating although it is fast becoming a
"Chicken or the Egg" type argument.

I am currently reading "Ghosts Among Us" by James Van Praag.
If this topic intrests you, I highly suggest it.

Back on topic. As a longtime fence-sitter, I am leaning towards the
"Eternal Energy" Ghosts/ Energies Do Exist.

Perhaps they are not apparent to everyone. Kinda like dogs hearing things that humans cannot. (Above the human range of 20K Hz threshold.)

Thanks for the interesting views/observations.

And so, If a tree falls in the forest and no one...................

regards....kk

reply to post by whatukno


I posted this excerpt in another post but it also seems to fit here. Not because I have an urge to fill pages with blather.

PS: I have, first hand experience with ghosts and other such phenomena.
That's why I believe! And no, I am not week minded. I tend to evaluate everything before I take a stance.

-- from the book "Everything You Ever Wanted to Know about Heaven", by Dr. Peter Kreeft (Ignatius Press, 1990).

"Without our action or invitation, the dead often do appear to the living. There is enormous evidence of 'ghosts' in all cultures .... We can distinguish three kinds of ghosts, I believe. First, the most familiar kind: the sad ones, the wispy ones. They seem to be working out some unfinished earthly business, or suffering some purgatorial purification until released from their earthly business. These ghosts would seem to be the ones who just barely made it to Purgatory, who feel little or no joy yet and who need to learn many painful lessons about their past life on earth."

"Second, there are malicious and deceptive spirits - and since they are_deceptive, they hardly ever appear malicious. These are probably the ones who respond to conjurings at seances. They probably come from Hell. Even the chance_of that happening should be sufficient to terrify away all temptations to necromancy."

"Third, there are bright, happy spirits of dead friends and family, especially spouses, who appear unbidden, at God's will, not ours, with messages of hope and love. They seem to come from Heaven. Unlike the purgatorial ghosts who come back primarily for their own sakes, these bright spirits come back for the sake of us the living, to tell us all is well. They are aped by evil spirits who say the same, who speak 'peace, peace, when there is no peace'. But the deception works only one way: the fake can deceive by appearing genuine, but the genuine never deceives by appearing fake. Heavenly spirits always convince us that they are genuinely good. Even the bright spirits appear ghostlike to us because a ghost of any type is one whose substance does not belong in or come from this world. In Heaven these spirits are not ghosts but real, solid and substantial because they are at home there: One can't be a ghost in one's own country."

"That there are all three kinds of ghosts is enormously likely. Even taking into account our penchant to deceive and be deceived, our credulity and fakery, there remain so many trustworthy accounts of all three types of ghosts - trustworthy by every ordinary empirical and psychological standard - that only a dogmatic prejudice against them could prevent us from believing they exist. As Chesterton says, 'We believe an old apple woman when she says she ate an apple; but when she says she saw a ghost, we say 'But she's only an old apple woman.' A most undemocratic and unscientific prejudice."

i think i would like to believe in ghosts but i am still not sure because i have questions.
when people say that they have seen shapes, things move, felt 'something', could this just be our minds playing a trick on us? maybe because we want to see or feel it? or becuase we believe in it so much that our brains trick us into thinking it?

i am interested to see what people may think...

Now I’m sure this has already been said but, rationally, we can deduce that not everything that exists is capable of penetrating our five-sense reality. This being the case, how can we possible expect to try, test and evaluate something that exists beyond the realms of 'known' reality?

‘Ghosts’ and other paranormal phenomenon just might qualify for this particular criteria. We may not understand them now, but in time – as with anything – we will find the answers. Such is the nature of mankind.

Personally I feel we should allow ourselves to open our minds to paranormal/ethereal possibilities, on the off-chance we may experience something inexplicable. These experiences should be open to our own interpretations, without us having to fear the ridicule of the sceptic; whose world often revolves around the pages of a 'scientific' textbook.

reply to post by Soulstone


My dog haunts my house, what you smoking that animal ghosts don't exist. And there are spiritual spots everywhere, even where you may be standing. The places that are haunted are just highly inhabited places in the spiritual plane, so they eventually appear in the physical plane. So if you go to a place and stay there long enough, you will feel something.

Originally posted by dave420
reply to post by Sonya610

 

So you accept you have no evidence for ghosts at all, yet you still claim they exist? Do you see your stance on ghosts is somewhat delusional? You have absolutely no rational reason to believe in them, yet you do.

I'm not being rude, I'm just trying to figure out why a grown human being would waste energy and effort on a phenomenon that has to yet be demonstrated to anyone. I hope you don't treat other facets of your life with such slap-dash reasoning

I accept the existence of such entities not based on physical evidence that I have, or thats been processed by any scientists at all. Something is real or not real, not because a scientist examines physical evidence and declares it to be so, but because thats just what it is.

Besides, by a ghosts very nature you can't have physical evidence because it isn't physical. I believe not because I have any sort of evidence, but because I saw it with my own eyes, and felt it with my own senses. Which is enough proof for me, and always will be.

Had a glass fly off the shelf again in the week! and footsteps up and down the stairs,witnessed by not just me....so I am not mad!

Originally posted by Soulstone
If ghosts or spirits are real why aren't there reported sightings all over NYC after 9/11. Shouldn't the old WTC ruins be completely amassed with ghosts?

Scroll down to NYC - trade center
Shadowlands

1 - There ARE reports of 9/11 ghosts. NYC and Shanksville.
2 - Not everyone who dies becomes a ghost.
3 - Not all souls that are hanging around are visible to us.

Ghost are real. I've seen 'em. I talked to one. They manifest around me all the time. Others around me see them, hear them, and experience them as well.

They are definately real.

reply to post by Soulstone


Well there is a show entitled "Dead Famous". In one episode the hosts took a number of mediums to the location in clear lake, Iowa where the plane crash that took the lives of Buddy Holly, Ritchie Valens and the big bopper occurred. They were able to pick up on Buddy's last thought after the crash. It went along the lines of waking up and thinking that he had survived. Until he noticed his body mangled on the ground. He had realized that he had died.

Another interesting note is that. They were able to locate the spirit(ghost) of Ritchie Valens in the haunted Surf Ballroom. Who i believe would of had unfinished business.

I have personally had four first hand experiences. The first being a apparation on a side of a road. That seemed to appear as i approached it. Then quickly fading away as i was passing it. The apperation seemed to be transparent and with a glow.

The second being up at the local radio station, where i have my own show. The station is surround by an old cemetery and an old defunct mental asylum. One specific night i was sitting at chair waiting for a song to finish. When i had a feeling i should look at the door towards the door in the studio. I noticed a dark figure looking at me through the glass panel and then quickly running off.

The third being in the same area, but inside the old asylum. I managed to sneak in through a boarded door. I walked slowly into a giant hall and i happened to smell something. That had smelt like something had died. I have been back there again and that smell has not been there.

The experience was again at the old asylum. I decided to take a few pictures to see if i could capture anything. Well i happened to capture a dark shadow along a wall. There was nothing to project any shadow of any sort on to that wall. The shadow is in the shape of a person. There was no one there except for my self.

I believe in them. I have noticed alot of people go to great lengths to disprove these types thing. They try to come out with the craziest theories and ideas.

ghoststudy.com...

Not sure if you had ever received any evidence of ghosts, but I can vouch for

this one as I was right there. It was taken in the house I currently live in. I

use this cellphone camera photo a lot now for avatars and the like.

Guaranteed real deal. I have no reason to lie. Only wishing for skeptics to

scrutinize it hard. You will find no tampering. And since I've lived here, no

one even remotely similar to this figure has been on the premises.

reply to post by Lebowski achiever


no

reply to post by Soulstone


Oh yes they are real, ive had many experiences with them. I started as a skeptic, years ago i didnt believe in them, i just turned 20, and started working security for a company formerly known as Pinkerton's. I was hired to work the country club in the heights of little rock in arkansas. I will state that i am not nor have i ever been diagnosed with any form of schizophrenia nor have i ever been on anti psychotropes...
Anyways, the first experience in my life happened at between 2:30 am to 3 am, close to what many call "the witching hour", i was sitting on a couch in front of a big screen tv writing a report in the mens bar and grill on the basement level, which had a locker room, and the only entrance was to walk right in front of me to the locker room. Well close to 3 am i hear laughter in the lockeroom so i went in and searched everywhere top to bottom and foun NOTHING. Fifteen minutes goes by and i hear it AGAIN, and again i go look and again i found nothing.
Let me state that the security officer is the only one with the key, it is passed from the manager to security at 12 midnight upon which security locks all doors and turns off all lights and escorts the last workers out of the building. There was no way anyone could have played a prank on me.
Anyways, a few days passed, and i no longer stayed in the mens bar and grill, i moved to the newly built presidents lounge which was a bar on the main floor. i was sitting at the bar and all of a sudden all the shot glasses and mugs and wine glasses on the counter started shaking violently, i looked all around for what may have caused this, i could find no reason to explain it, the glasses were the only things shaking. later that night i went on patrol and there were doors i had locked that were UNlocked, lights that i had turned off were turned on, the AC wasnt on because it was late october and cool outside, and as i walked down the hall way it got REAL cold, cold enough to see my breath, i felt a chill run up my spine and goosebumps popped up on my arms and i turned around, and there was what almost looked like a person standing behind me looking at me and it/he was moving his mouth and gesturing, the man looked like he was wearing turn of the century 1900 clothing...and i could SEE THROUGH HIM.
Needless to say i called my superviser and told him what i had seen, and he told me the reason i was hired for that post was the previous officer saw that apparition and ran screaming from the place and refused to go back. He apologized for not telling me at the start, but he wanted proof that he and the other officer wasnt crazy.
Ever since that day it was like a doorway opened in my mind, one i havent been able to close since, im a magnet for the paranormal, ghosts follow me everywhere i go and i just recently learned why. I have a 6th sense of heightned empathy, every human has a degree of empathy but mine is cranked up as much as 20 times higher than a normal persons, ive had numerous CT scans and examinations showing areas in my brain that are normally dormant in most people, yet are active in me.

The reason most people dont see ghosts and spirits is they lack the sixth sense to detect them. There are things that do go bump in the night, things if you ever see wish you never saw again. Spirits, ghosts and demons are strongly drawn to people with some sort of psyhic ability, most just want attention or to say "hey, im still here" because theyre lonely. trust me, if you were stuck on earth for god alone knows how many years without human contact you'd find a way to get someone's attention. Obviously the more pissed off they get the stronger they are.