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Why Ghosts are not Real

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posted on Sep, 1 2008 @ 02:23 PM
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How do you know? Have you been dead?




posted on Sep, 1 2008 @ 02:31 PM
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Here's a question for all you who believe in such silly things as ghosts. Why is it that when someones eye sight and part of the brain that perceives eye sight is damaged and completely dead the spiritual or spirit eyes don't start working? That part of the body is dead. What about when you have cancer of the nose and lose your sense of smell? Your smell is dead. Yet there is no spiritual body taking over the smelling. As my friend who is in pre-med says "When you die. Nothing happens!!"



posted on Sep, 1 2008 @ 02:53 PM
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posted on Sep, 1 2008 @ 02:53 PM
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Well, all I can say is this: the pub where I drink, it`s full of spirits



posted on Sep, 1 2008 @ 03:03 PM
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Dr. William Roll's research would tend to agree with you. His research takes him into the field, though, until one can find either A) what causes the phenomenon or B) a haunted lab.

In our former apt. we experienced the full-body apparition of a girl who died of a heart attack in the apt. before we moved in ( a long-term neighbor told us who she was by our description, and he was living there when the EMT's hauled her out dead), something pushing me out of the way in our kitchen, and a tape recorder caught pots and pans noises when we weren't there, plus the sound of a cuckoo clock that no one in the building had (but the dead girl had one) that showed up on the recorder.

Our family was watching TV in the dark on the night of the Cincinnati Labor Day fireworks last year. A white streak flew out of the kitchen and materialized next to the tv as a short, heavy-set longhaired girl that looked like she was made out of luminous cigarette smoke. When she turned, smiled and waved at us, my wife almost went thru the patio window getting away from it. Next day our neighbor told us who she was and her tragic story, after we described her.

Sorry the fellow who started this thread has never experienced the phenomenon. My hope is that someday he does. I don't know what the cause is, but there is definitely SOMETHING going on. No ghost this Labor Day, we moved to a new place.

[edit on 1-9-2008 by ibgrimme]



posted on Sep, 1 2008 @ 03:10 PM
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reply to post by ibgrimme
 


I grew up in Cincinnati and lived in a several of those old apt buildings around Mt. Arie and Northside. About everyone around there has seen something..heh



posted on Sep, 1 2008 @ 03:15 PM
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reply to post by DrumJunkie
 


Its good to see people using the more PC(phenomenon correct) term, 'something', to describe strange phenomenon. Having an open mind that what is being seen could be anything, will open doors to what actually causing it.



posted on Sep, 1 2008 @ 04:28 PM
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Hello everyone,

I just thought I might throw a few sentences into the conversation. First of all, I will say that I can only agree with the notion that very many people see things, that under closer scrutiny would show itself to be nothing strange at all. As some have said in this thread, we're often so willing to be fooled, that once presented with something apparently vaguely strange, every shred of common sense goes out the window, and for what that's worth, I think such behaviour destroys many potentially good things, for the strange occurrences that are actually going on.

As far as the human sensory system being fooled, I can only agree with that as well. It's healthy to try and dig into some of the pitfalls of limitations within our mental capabilities, and how the brain tries to make up for that. It will only bring us closer to truth, if we do. That being said, I also think it is hugely arrogant to believe that our 5 senses in any way can entrap all things there are to 'see' or 'feel', if you will. Consider that evolution gives species what skills they need to survive, and nothing more, at least not in general. There are strays, obviously, and thank goodness for that. Anyway, we've only ever mostly had to hunt and gather, and you don't need, probably, to be able to see ghosts or anything else you can't eat, in order to do that. Hence, we should also be hesitant in conjuring up explanations that try to tell us, that our sensory system can see everything there is to see. That is hugely arrogant in my book.

As far as ghosts are concerned, I'm a bit of a fence-sitter, as far as actually labelling them ghosts, in the sense that they are the actual dead spiritual embodiments of formerly living people. However, to put it in general terms, I have a strong belief in that there is certainly a LOT there, and recognize that confining and measuring it, is an astoundingly hard thing to do. The reasons for that are a bit complex, in my book, unless you've spent some measure of time, studying what 'ghosts' (or whatever you call them) are actually supposed to be able to do, and try to learn what encapsulates the whole spiritual realm in which 'ghosts' are sometimes said to exist. The fact is, when you try to explain terms of spirits, you very easily venture into doubtful territory as far as concise explanation and reason go, but that is just the way of things.

Now, to the point of the matter. Firstly, I'm an atheist. Not an agnostic, but an atheist. I do not believe that a god created this universe, and I do not believe that there are any reasons to give the matter the benefit of the doubt, for various reasons. With that said, and I said it to display some sense of how my mind works, I do believe in spirits/energy, if you will, emotional entities who roam or live in certain areas, and are there for various reasons. What they are exactly, I do not know, obviously, but my reasons for believing in them come from personal experience, and not nice experience.

7 years ago, when I was 25, something very disturbing happened in the cellar of the old house I live in. I say old house, but it was built in 1930. Up until that point, and afterwards as well, I've always found myself to be a sensible man, not jumping on any bandwagons, always standing back to gather some information, before going along with everyone else. You may say I'm willfully unspontaneous or boring. I do recognize that my mind can fool me, when awake or especially during sleep. I suffer from night terrors and have done for more than a decade. Now, what I experienced in my cellar was basically that two bicycles fell violently over. Then there was a second of pause, and a table at the wall was upturned, although less violently. When the table hit the ground, after the noise of the table hitting the ground, a hissing/crackling noise erupted in the middle of the room (it is around 12' by 12').

(Rest of my experience coming up in the next post)



posted on Sep, 1 2008 @ 04:42 PM
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The noise moved hastily towards me, and past me, and all the while I was frozen to the spot. When the noise erupted, I was not really scared, more in a 'Huh?'-state of mind, but when that noise was at me, I tell you, a sense of utter dread took hold me, the likes of which I have never felt, and hope never to do again. (Edit: I then ran outside in my garden. It was around 5 in the afternoon, in September).

That's the long and short of it, probably mostly short. I've never before or after had any experience in my house, and have always thought of it as a very peaceful house, if you will, even after the incident. What happens when you experience something like that, well I did anyway, is that you wander through every possible explanation for what might have happened, without resorting to the fantastic. There are very many strange valid scientifically proven phenomenons in this world, some are very rare and can impact our environment or ourselves in ways that would seem strange to us. However, with that being said, I do think people need to keep a healthy dose of room in their minds for the inexplicable. Horatio springs to mind again.

For the record, I did also have a belief in spirits before the incident.

Obviously, I've talked to many people about it, also with people who have had other strange things happen to them, and do believe that some people very actively attract 'spirits', if you will, or energy, call it what you want.

I can also tell you that once you've had such an experience, you don't want another one. I'm very, very glad I've never seen a 'ghost', i.e. with a humanoid appearance, or vaguely resembling anything humanoid. I think if I did, I'd never, ever be the same person. Be careful what you wish for, and if you've never experienced something that remains genuinely weird and inexplicable, even after many years of searching and thought, count yourself happy, not out of luck. I know many people who'd like to have something weird or strange happen to them, and can honestly say they wouldn't say that, if something had actually happened to them. For that reason I always judge tales from people who say they've had experiences with good doses of criticism, because it leaves a permanent imprint on the personality of the experiencee.

I hope I've not come across as judgemental or annoying, and recognize that my post is very unlikely to sway any minds or held ideas, but since there is no way to impart from me to others the actual experience I had, my words are all I have.

[edit on 1-9-2008 by Bonestone]

[edit on 1-9-2008 by Bonestone]



posted on Sep, 1 2008 @ 04:55 PM
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To the OP, I will say this. Your questions are very valid, and scepticism will get you everywhere you wish to go, but your questions also make me think that you should try to read some actual books written about ghosts, despite how ridiculous you might find that idea, to (if nothing else) give you the understanding that some people have of why they believe in ghosts. I think you'll find the matter hugely complicated and am quite certain that many of your questions will be answered. I'm not saying you won't find great piles of rubbish along the way, but if you genuinely want to understand something, it can never hurt to immerse yourself in books written by the 'opposing trench', if you will.

No bad thing can come of it. If you do choose to read some more books on the properties of ghosts or similar, be sure to browse around a lot before you purchase. The market is riddled with stupendous amounts of stupidity and crap, to put it mildly. I'll not recommend any to you, since I believe that every person has a unique angle to any subject, and having others meddle in that angle often yields negative results.



posted on Sep, 1 2008 @ 06:34 PM
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Originally posted by Soulstone
If ghosts or spirits are real why aren't there reported sightings all over NYC after 9/11. Shouldn't the old WTC ruins be completely amassed with ghosts?

Why is it there are places that are haunted in particular when there are death tolls in the thousands in certain places where there does not seem to be any residual or conscious hauntings?

Shouldn't there be ghosts everywhere given the amount of people that have died throughout history on this planet?

Why is it always humans that haunt and not animals? Don't they have the same biological functions.

Some questions that need answers before I can begin to consider the possibility seriously......



I can answer this because it is in one of my fields of specialization.

The Deadies are everywhere, most people do not see or feel them due to being shut down to the wider reality around us when we were small children... this was achieved by indoctrination into culturally accepted beliefs.

All souls choose to be a part of what they experience as a human being. Therefore all those people who died in the twin towers event had in fact intended to be a part of that event, otherwise, the event itself could not have occured.

Animals also get left behind here. I have done many 'clearings' over the years and discovered pets that were stuck here as well as babies, children and adults.

When I do a clearing, I actively take the deadie into the Light myself, to insure it has made it's way without further obstructions.

None of this is anything like the TV shows!

One only becomes a ghost when they do not cross over and their awareness is restricted to what they believe and therefore see as their current reality.

What you think or believe about it has absolutely no bearing on the reality they experience.

Be well



posted on Sep, 1 2008 @ 07:02 PM
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reply to post by Bonestone
 


[it can never hurt to immerse yourself in books written by the 'opposing trench', if you will. ]

Exactly ..star for ya



posted on Sep, 1 2008 @ 07:23 PM
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Originally posted by Bonestone
I can also tell you that once you've had such an experience, you don't want another one. I'm very, very glad I've never seen a 'ghost', i.e. with a humanoid appearance, or vaguely resembling anything humanoid. I think if I did, I'd never, ever be the same person.


Interesting story. Let me expand on your thought, from my own personal experience.

I have always loved horror films, ghost stories, etc... At the same time I have always thought if I saw some of the things I have heard about, I think it would damage me mentally because I could not get over it.

I don't think that anymore, and here is why. There was ONE time that something truly weird happened (weird as in an intense personal in the moment experience that made my hair stand up) and when it happened my mind blocked it out instantly and completely.

Long story short, at a cabin in the Sierras. I had taken one of our dogs out to potty and was walking her back up the staircase inside the house. She was a bit wild (young doberman) so I had her on a short leash, I didn't want her to jump around and cause both of us to tumble down the stairs.

Anyways, I was maybe 3 steps from teh front door, long narrow staircase running up the side of the cabin, outside. Near the top I felt something BIG brush against me. Unmistakeable, as if someone took a heavy pillow and brushed it against my back. I was not spooked, it was a strong, completely normal and physical sensation, and I turned around expecting to see my dad or husband standing behind me. I stared down an empty staircase and realized there was NO WAY anything could have been there. It was physically impossible (and whatever it was, it was BIG).

The hair really DOES stand up on the back of your neck. You really DO get chills just like in the books. The dog did not react, but she could have assumed I touched her so she had no reason to freak. I took three more steps and walked into the cabin and completely BLOCKED OUT that experience. It was simply erased from my memory.

Three days later the husband (now ex) says he had "a weird experience Friday night". He said he was standing on the driveway when something BIG brushed against him, he turned around expecting to see one of us and no one was there. He assumed it was a deer running up the driveway and it brushed against him (yeah right, like a deer would be that stupid, and like he would not have heard it clip-clopping over the cement).

Anyways, when he said that I remembered what happened to me. I got chills all over again. I also realized I would NEVER have recalled the incident if he had not shared his story.

I do believe people can "forget" that which disturbs them. Your mind can simply block it out and you would never know it even happened.

Edit -- sorry the story is so long. For the record I have no idea what it was, it scared me but that was my issue, and I won't say it intended to scare me. It was a benign physical sensation until my mind realized whatever caused it was not on this plane of existence.

[edit on 1-9-2008 by Sonya610]



posted on Sep, 1 2008 @ 07:43 PM
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well, i think ghosts are more just dimentional ripples that allow us to see creatures that our mind could never grasp. thats just one of my thoughts. i just highly doubt that theres dead human spirits walking around



posted on Sep, 1 2008 @ 08:22 PM
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I have story..

Ok one day.. I was at drama class, I was about 16 (now 35) Well it was kind of a free class and we was all sat round in a circle, the teacher was telling us ghost stories. He proceeded to talk about one boy in his past class years ago who told him his dead grandmother read him stories at bedtime
I thought yeah ok sir. nice one.. pull the other one!

He said that she would only appear in the one chair, there were a pair of these armchairs but she only liked that one.. and if his mum removed the chair she wouldnt be there.. put it back and she would be. So they decided to get rid of the chair! (as you would) both of them.

Some time after the little boy is looking thru the family photo album with his mum and he said 'Thats her! thats the old lady who read me stories!' etc.. his mum said dont be silly. . he was adamant it was her. His mum said 'well... that was your great grandmother.. she died a while ago'..

Then the teacher said ..looking around the lot of us... ' and do you know who that boy was?' it was John x x x x x x ... looking at me.. 'your big brother' ..

Well I shyyyyyyte my pants
I said dont lie! he said honest, ask him.. I said I will! so I did.. but my brother didnt want to talk about it. So I asked my mum and she told me yeah its true but he wont talk about it its freaked him out. To this day I havnt brought it up again. I wondered was my bro just winding the teacher up, cause he is like that.. but no I trust my mum
he was about 4 or 5 at the time and about 15 in my school, so he obviously wasnt a joker at 5. lol.


My mum started doing sceances after that, slyly, at whoever wanted ones house. She soon gave up as glasses broke and stuff like that.. nothing good ever happening. She has also seen the ghost of a victorian girl in our basement. My sister has a weird dream that she was my mums mum in a past life.. I mean WTF is it with my family.. and Im by far the strangest ..reading what I read! (everything)

Ive never seen a damn thing and I do all the research
all I get is sleep paralysis and a few visions.. past.. but Im not complaining!
we all get our own pieces of the puzzle?



(edit) the age at school I must have been 13! wasnt even there by 14 Id left. lol

[edit on 1-9-2008 by True-Light]



posted on Sep, 1 2008 @ 10:27 PM
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Some people believe and some do not, and no matter how hard to try you cant convert a non-believer, they have to experience it for themselves.

I have had several experiences, all at my grandparents house, as has many of my family members. To a person, everyone agrees it is the spirit of my grandfather, who passed away in 1983. I have never seen his full figure "ghost", as some would call it, but I have seen objects move, heard whispers and grunts, and felt his presence. My Grandmother says he is always around her at night. Funny story, my Grandmother remarried in 1995, and while we all love Pat, apparently Grandfather doesnt, because every time Pat picks up his pipe to light it, his tobacco is damp! No matter where he stores it, doesnt matter which pipe he uses! No one has ever been able to explain it. I cant explain it, but I know what I have seen and heard myself.



posted on Sep, 2 2008 @ 12:16 AM
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Originally posted by SkepticalSteve
Here's a question for all you who believe in such silly things as ghosts.


Wow, if you really want help "opening up", maybe you shouldnt imply that people who believe are "silly".

Anyway, Ive had experiences that I cant explain, so has my mother and sister. Most of these occuring in our house.



posted on Sep, 2 2008 @ 12:34 AM
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reply to post by iamcamouflage
 


Well ..I am one of those that tend to believe that the experiences I've had were real all though I have no real proof outside of some audio tape that still has to be my word or bot believed. I used not to believe in any of it until I met my wife. She seems to be a magnet for such activity. I still don't know exactly what to call these experiences so I will use terms like "Something" Being I believe it is something..But I don't think I'm near qualified to say what.

I think some people can see things that others cannot much like ho some people appear to have the ability to use parts of their brain that others don't (esp etc). I thin it would be an interesting experiment in see scans of the brains of people that say they can see "ghosts", claim to be a medium, and other paranormal claims. It might be interesting to see if there is a common area pf activity in parts of the brain of these people.



posted on Sep, 2 2008 @ 06:06 AM
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reply to post by botiemaster
 


OK, I'll walk you through everything that's wrong with this evidence.

1. It's a shadow. All that video shows is that a shadow moved.

Oh! That's enough to completely debunk it. If you see a shadow moving and think "oh it must be a ghost", then that is irrational.

I want to believe - don't get me wrong. I'm just not willing to sell my intelligence down the river to do so.

The camera isn't being irrational - your interpretation of what it shows is irrational. That is my whole point. Ghosts might exist - but there is no evidence for them. Videos, no matter how good, are not evidence. Actual consistent lab results are evidence. Nothing less will do. It is science, and it is most certainly not faith.

"Irrational-isms" don't work both ways, unless you're being irrational.



posted on Sep, 2 2008 @ 06:07 AM
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reply to post by Tayesin
 


That is just your opinion, completely devoid of any substantiating evidence.



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