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McCain VP Likely Decision

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posted on Aug, 29 2008 @ 02:10 PM
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Originally posted by Swatman

Originally posted by iamcamouflage
reply to post by burdman30ott6
 


Its not that African Americans are choosing to support Obama because he is black it has more to do with him being a Democrat. Historically African Americans have voted in much greater numbers for Democrats as opposed to Republicans. Democrats have built an agenda on helping the middle class, minorities, homosexuals and disinfranchised Americans in general. I think Democrats have specifically targeted the issues that affect these groups and that has more to do with the African American support for Obama than the color of his skin.

Depending on what you consider the Middle Class to be, it could be argued that the majority of Americans(~90%) are middle class or lower on the economic scale. Forming a platform that seeks to help the people who fall into this category, is a very smart move, that can obtain the highest number of votes. That is why Obama wants to repeal the Bush tax cuts because they only help people who make more that ~$200,000. Obama wants to cut taxes for 95% of the population. Your taxes will only go up if you make more than ~$200,000. And the group of Americans above this mark only represent a small percentage of the population. So its in the Democrats best interest to help those under that value.



www.johnmccain.com...





Keep Tax Rates Low: Entrepreneurs are at the heart of American innovation, growth and prosperity. Entrepreneurs create the ultimate job security - a new, better opportunity if your current job goes away. Entrepreneurs should not be taxed into submission. John McCain will keep the top tax rate at 35 percent, maintain the 15 percent rates on dividends and capital gains, and phase-out the Alternative Minimum Tax. Small businesses are the heart of job growth; raising taxes on them hurts every worker.

Cut The Corporate Tax Rate From 35 To 25 Percent: A lower corporate tax rate is essential to keeping good jobs in the United States. America was once a low-tax business environment, but as our trade partners lowered their rates, America failed to keep pace. We now have the second highest corporate tax rate in the world, making America a less attractive place for companies to do business. American workers deserve the chance to make fine products here and sell them around the globe.

Allow First-Year Deduction, Or "Expensing", Of Equipment And Technology Investments: American workers need the finest technologies to compete. Expensing of equipment and technology will provide an immediate boost to capital expenditures and reward investments in cutting-edge technologies.

Establish Permanent Tax Credit Equal To 10 Percent Of Wages Spent On R&D: This reform will simplify the tax code, reward activity in the United States, and make us more competitive with other countries. A permanent credit will provide an incentive to innovate and remove uncertainty. At a time when our companies need to be more competitive, we need to provide a permanent incentive to innovate, and remove the uncertainty now hanging over businesses as they make R&D investment decisions.



www.barackobama.com...




Obama will cut income taxes by $1,000 for working families to offset the payroll tax they pay.
Provide a Tax Cut for Working Families: Obama will restore fairness to the tax code and provide 150 million workers the tax relief they need. Obama will create a new "Making Work Pay" tax credit of up to $500 per person, or $1,000 per working family. The "Making Work Pay" tax credit will completely eliminate income taxes for 10 million Americans.

Eliminate Income Taxes for Seniors Making Less than $50,000: Barack Obama will eliminate all income taxation of seniors making less than $50,000 per year. This proposal will eliminate income taxes for 7 million seniors and provide these seniors with an average savings of $1,400 each year. Under the Obama plan, 27 million American seniors will also not need to file an income tax return.

Simplify Tax Filings for Middle Class Americans: Obama will dramatically simplify tax filings so that millions of Americans will be able to do their taxes in less than five minutes. Obama will ensure that the IRS uses the information it already gets from banks and employers to give taxpayers the option of pre-filled tax forms to verify, sign and return. Experts estimate that the Obama proposal will save Americans up to 200 million total hours of work and aggravation and up to $2 billion in tax preparer fees.

Provide Tax Relief for Small Businesses and Start Up Companies: Barack Obama will eliminate all capital gains taxes on start-up and small businesses to encourage innovation and job creation. Obama will also support small business owners by providing a $500 “Making Work Pay” tax credit to almost every worker in America. Self-employed small business owners pay both the employee and the employer side of the payroll tax, and this measure will reduce the burdens of this double taxation.

Create a National Network of Public-Private Business Incubators: Barack Obama will support entrepreneurship and spur job growth by creating a national network of public-private business incubators. Business incubators facilitate the critical work of entrepreneurs in creating start-up companies. Obama will invest $250 million per year to increase the number and size of incubators in disadvantaged communities throughout the country.
Labor




posted on Aug, 29 2008 @ 02:21 PM
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reply to post by mental modulator
 


That all sounds great what obama plans to do, however it doesnt go into how much he is going to raise taxes to individuals and corporations. I personally get 90% of my business from people who make over 20000 a year. Those are the people who spend the most. You start pentalizing people who are successful, those people are going to cut back spending in other areas. Just like if you start to tax large coporations. Those corporations are either going to have to raise prices or cut back on employees. How about his plan to have an estate tax of over 50%. That is real fair. The government gets to take half your hard earned money and redistribute it to the poor. Raising taxes to those who make over 200000 to 40%. Plus raising capital gains taxes. Unbelievable anyone would vote for him.



posted on Aug, 29 2008 @ 02:28 PM
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reply to post by mental modulator
 




Republicans could give a flying #@!# about black folks.


You know, I'm getting REALLY sick of stereotyping like this. Republicans don't hate black people. In fact, I'm a pretty right wing guy and I have nothing but respect for the black culture in America. Not only for what they have gone through, but for their dedication to the military in this country. The black contribution to our military has been unmatched in history. This is not an uncommon belief by white republican males (hence, the great admiration for men like Colin Powel).

So please, stop it with the "republicans are racist" BS. Its not true and It really makes you look like a bigot.



posted on Aug, 29 2008 @ 02:35 PM
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Originally posted by tide88
reply to post by mental modulator
 


That all sounds great what obama plans to do, however it doesnt go into how much he is going to raise taxes to individuals and corporations. I personally get 90% of my business from people who make over 20000 a year. Those are the people who spend the most. You start pentalizing people who are successful, those people are going to cut back spending in other areas. Just like if you start to tax large coporations. Those corporations are either going to have to raise prices or cut back on employees. How about his plan to have an estate tax of over 50%. That is real fair. The government gets to take half your hard earned money and redistribute it to the poor. Raising taxes to those who make over 200000 to 40%. Plus raising capital gains taxes. Unbelievable anyone would vote for him.



I can't wrap my head around this. Your logic seems to make sense until your math kicks in. If you make upwards of 200,00 dollars a year, and suddenly you get a raise on your income, unless the change is a HUGE percentage, would you really notice? This is a sincere question. I make about 36k a year, my fiancee a little less, and I know that WE'D probably feel it, but someone making four times that amount? I don't know, I have a lot of trouble feeling bad for people who make that much when they complain about financial hardship affecting their lifestyle. If you make 200k a year and can't manage to somehow make that (even assuming a ridiculous 50% tax, leaving you 100k a year) last you, while still doing pretty much anything you want to do, I don't know, man, that's some bad budgeting...



posted on Aug, 29 2008 @ 02:48 PM
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reply to post by Swatman
 


Yes, good point. Everyone should vote for a party based on what they did 150 years ago. Excellent idea.

If the Republicans were making minority issues part of their platform they would harbor more votes from those communities. They choose not to and the poll results year after year make this clear. African Americans vote for Democrats the vast majority of the time. African Americans do not owe the Republican party anything for what happened 150 years ago. The Republicans have not made minority issues a priority and so they dont get their vote, they dont even try to get that demographic. Same goes for the homosexual community, their rights are not the priority of the Republican party and it is reflected in voting results.



posted on Aug, 29 2008 @ 02:52 PM
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Keep up the good discussion!
. I have seen mentioning of parties in history. We have to remember the general base of parties have changed. The Republicans in Lincolns era, in today's issues and party lines, would be democratic. During the 1800's, the parties basically did a flip-flop



posted on Aug, 29 2008 @ 02:56 PM
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Originally posted by iamcamouflage
Same goes for the homosexual community, their rights are not the priority of the Republican party and it is reflected in voting results.



Tell that to these guys: online.logcabin.org...

People need to stop with this pigeon holing "if this / then that" garbage. Seriously, wtf?

Here's a funny story. I was in the supermarket with a buddy after judo one Saturday. He happens to be this big as hell Jamaican guy (and very conservative if you're wondering Mr. Pigeon Hole). He had a box of Grape-Nuts in his basket at check-out. The very large (rotund) black woman working the register exclaimed in a very loud and somewhat disrespectful fashion "Black people don't eat Grape-Nuts, whatcha buyin' Grape-Nuts fo'? You better get back there and get some Fruity Pebbles!"

So to you and to this woman working the register, "if this" does not always equal "then that." Though I'm willing to bet "if" the woman working the register was white "then" she would most certainly had been reprimanded.



posted on Aug, 29 2008 @ 03:04 PM
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reply to post by thisguyrighthere
 


"Reprimanded"? Try fired. How many times have the words "nappy headed" and "hos" been used by black people to describe other blacks and look at what happened to Don Imus when he made a throw away comment on air using the terms.



posted on Aug, 29 2008 @ 03:08 PM
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reply to post by '___'eviant
 



It depends where you live. If a family of 4 makes 200000 a year and lives in NYC it is like making 50000/year in other places. And why should I get punished because I make a substantial amount more then you do. This is america. Land of opportunity. Since when was it the land if you are successful you have to give your money to the people who are less so. What about the doctors who have spent 8-10 years of school to and have hundreds of thousands in school loans. Now they are getting punished for making that much. Also take me for example. I am single and have quite a bit of diposable income, which I spend quite freely. It is people like me who buy the expensive products, vehicles, homes, etc that keep the economy moving. Now you want to take away half of my money. What do you think is going to happen. I am going to spend less. By me spending less, companies are going to have to cut back because profits are down. Look I feel for you. But you have to look at the big picture. Taxing the wealthy is not good for the overall economy. So you will get a tax credit and your taxes will be lower. Tell me what is better for the overall economy. Me spending 75000 on items such as the above mentioned or you spending an extra 2000-4000 on gas, groceries, and other everday living expenses. Not sure who you work for or what you do, but there will be many job cuts if he raises taxes on people making just over 200000.

[edit on 29-8-2008 by tide88]



posted on Aug, 29 2008 @ 03:12 PM
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reply to post by mental modulator
 


"Republicans could give a #$^#@ about black folks"?

Wow, thats one of the more racist posts Ive read on this site, and thats saying something.

I'm to the right of the GOP, and I happen to be engaged to a black woman. Kind of gives me the right to care about her. Oh, and her family is black as well. Maybe I really should hate them? Because I obviously must be a racist because I cant stand Obama.

Its blanket statements on race, gender, etc... that perpetuate this insane political correctness world we live in. Give it a rest, Dems arent for the poor, Repubs dont hate minorities (Rice, Powell, JC Watts?) its just a bunch of people fighting with each other to accomplish nothing. The fact you buy into the whole republicans are racist tells me alot about you, nothing like trying to find the truth, only perpetuate a far left talking point. Sad in a way.

Back to the OP. Sarah is a wonderful person and a leader. Great in front of a group or talking one on one. She has been great for AK and is an excellant choice for the VP. Wait till she speaks at the convention and when she lights up Biden in the debate. Should be a blast.



posted on Aug, 29 2008 @ 03:23 PM
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reply to post by thisguyrighthere
 


I am fully aware of the log cabin republicans and they do not represent the entire or even a very large percentage of the gay community. Besides Log cabin republicans maintain traditional republican views that are no longer held by the party today; low taxes, limited government, strong defense, free markets, personal responsibility, and individual liberty.
LCR have distanced themselves from socially conservative Republican views on matters relating to gay and lesbian rights. Which I would say includes most of the Republicans in the government.

I was never implying that homosexuals dont or cant vote republican but its tough to argue that the Republican party has been pro-gay rights. I have not pigeonholed anyone, I'm only stating what past tendencies have been. I'm sure you can find examples of African Americans voting republican but the truth is most dont. Union members usually vote democratic, there are examples showing otherwise but again the majority dont. Why, because Republicans have traditionally been against unions, so most dont vote for them.

Source



posted on Aug, 29 2008 @ 03:31 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
MSNBC is reporting that Pawlenty has been informed that he is NOT the choice. Also, Mitt Romney will not be in Dayton, where the announcement is going to be made. So, unless it's done by satellite, it won't be Romney, who I thought would be the Republican's choice.

Palin may be an option. But she doesn't seem "presidential" to me. In McCain's situation, he needs to have someone that will be able to take over. I know that's crude, but it's on people's minds. Also, I don't think picking a woman is going to woo voters as would appear to be the purpose of this move.

And Joe Lieberman is chained to a radiator in Hartford.


And it turns out that the real candidate of change is: McCain

And the real party not afraid to elevate women into the top spots of VP, etc. is the Republicans.

Brilliant move IMO as it steals the thunder and even momentum away from the dems, just when they thought their convention had helped them regain it.

Now watch for the debates, where if O'Biden comes on like the attack dog he's promised to be against her, she'll gain the women's vote big time.



posted on Aug, 29 2008 @ 03:42 PM
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Originally posted by tide88
reply to post by '___'eviant
 



It depends where you live. If a family of 4 makes 200000 a year and lives in NYC it is like making 50000/year in other places. And why should I get punished because I make a substantial amount more then you do. This is america. Land of opportunity. Since when was it the land if you are successful you have to give your money to the people who are less so. What about the doctors who have spent 8-10 years of school to and have hundreds of thousands in school loans. Now they are getting punished for making that much. Also take me for example. I am single and have quite a bit of diposable income, which I spend quite freely. It is people like me who buy the expensive products, vehicles, homes, etc that keep the economy moving. Now you want to take away half of my money. What do you think is going to happen. I am going to spend less. By me spending less, companies are going to have to cut back because profits are down. Look I feel for you. But you have to look at the big picture. Taxing the wealthy is not good for the overall economy. So you will get a tax credit and your taxes will be lower. Tell me what is better for the overall economy. Me spending 75000 on items such as the above mentioned or you spending an extra 2000-4000 on gas, groceries, and other everday living expenses. Not sure who you work for or what you do, but there will be many job cuts if he raises taxes on people making just over 200000.

[edit on 29-8-2008 by tide88]


You are right that you spend more but there are less of you(your income bracket spending). If you make more that $250,000 you are in the top 5% of the population which is .05 X 300,000,000(I realize that not all 300million are working adults but that number is not important its the percentages)=1.5million people. Lets say just for argument sake that the top 5% spends $250,000 per year on high end items(obviously you are not spending 250k but the top 2% probably are but we will just take this as ballpark.) So, 1.5 million X 250K = $375,000,000,000 a lot of money.

Now from your example lets say that with the tax cuts the bottom 95% can spend 2000 extra per year. 95% of 300million is 285 million. 285 million X $2000=570,000,000,000. That is 200 billion dollars more for the economy.

Now keep in mind that this math is not exact but like i said the percentages are whats important. Also keep in mind that I took the high end of the top 5% and what they spend and the low number of the bottom 95%.

Trickle down economics DOES NOT WORK! It didnt work in the 80s when Regan tried it and it hasnt worked now when Bush tried it. It only makes the rich, richer and poor, poorer.

Also keep in mind that trickle down also makes the assumption that all these rich people will be responsibilty putting the money back into the economy. If you invest it doesnt help the bottom 95%, if you save it, it doesnt help the bottom 95% and if you buy a BMW, it doesnt help the bottom 95%. Unless you are buying enormous amounts of products/services that are produced in this country, it doesnt help the bottom 95%. Are you buying 5 times the number of tshirts sold at walmart because you make more money? Are you buying 10 times the number of hamburgers at McDonalds because you make more?

This type of economics has been shown over and over to NOT be in the best interest of the largest amount of people.



posted on Aug, 29 2008 @ 03:55 PM
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reply to post by iamcamouflage
 


My goal in life is not to make the poor rich...Sorry but that is the truth. If you can't make it, thats life. I include myself in that as well. If something were to happen and I was broke and homeless I have only myself to blame. I put myself through college with no help, lived in a crappy motel while I worked and started in life. I made sure I did not ruin my credit, or spend money I did not have....Then after 15 years of 18 hour days I can now enjoy life. Dont give me some crap that our system does not work. Cowboy up, and work harder.



posted on Aug, 29 2008 @ 03:57 PM
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reply to post by iamcamouflage
 


That great but still doesnt solve the problem that a family of 4 making 250000 that lives in NYC doesnt mean that person is rich. THere are plenty of people making 25000+ that struggle to. Also since when should successful people be punished for making more money than others. BTW I am all for the flat tax plan. I think that is the fairest plan. Also doesnt he say the way his tax plan would work everyone would be able to file their own taxes in five minutes. Wow HR Block and other accounting firms are really going to have to lay off a lot of workers. Accountants must really support Obama.

[edit on 29-8-2008 by tide88]



posted on Aug, 29 2008 @ 04:02 PM
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reply to post by TXMACHINEGUNDLR
 


Hey listen man, Im in the same situation as you I have paid for all my school and didnt let my debt get out of control. I made a life for myself but not everyone has the same advantages as you or I. There are some who have it much worse, simply from the parents they were born from or the environment they were born into. I have made a good life for myself but I know enough people who have tried to do the same things that I have and because of their up bringing or environment or other things outside of their control, they were not able to accomplish the same.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I'm no fortunate son.



posted on Aug, 29 2008 @ 04:05 PM
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Originally posted by TXMACHINEGUNDLR
reply to post by iamcamouflage
 


My goal in life is not to make the poor rich...Sorry but that is the truth. If you can't make it, thats life. I include myself in that as well. If something were to happen and I was broke and homeless I have only myself to blame. I put myself through college with no help, lived in a crappy motel while I worked and started in life. I made sure I did not ruin my credit, or spend money I did not have....Then after 15 years of 18 hour days I can now enjoy life. Dont give me some crap that our system does not work. Cowboy up, and work harder.

I agree. I didnt come from a wealthy family, quite the opposite. Now after all my hard work I have to give money to people who work at mcdonalds or people on welfare. The government shouldn't tell me what I should do with my money. I should be able to spend it how ever I want. I am all for giving and doing my share. But we are at that point now. No more taxes.

[edit on 29-8-2008 by tide88]



posted on Aug, 29 2008 @ 04:15 PM
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reply to post by tide88
 


If that is the case that a family of four living in NYC making 250000 per year is the same as 50000 per year most other places(and I question this), then I would say they are living outside of their means.

No one is forcing them to live in NYC. Aside from housing costs, is it really that much more expensive to live in NYC. Transportation is cheaper than smaller cities because most need cars. Food and clothing costs in bigger cities are slighly more but 3 or 4 times as much?

I think you need to provide some evidence for this claim. According to this Cost of Living Index, living in NYC is only twice as much as the national average. So $250,000 in NYC is closer to $125,000 based on the average. If you are a family of 4 and you cannot survive on $125,000 per year then you are living outside you means.



posted on Aug, 29 2008 @ 04:29 PM
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reply to post by tide88
 


You made it to where you are without any help from anyone? Never had help from friends or family or used a public good to help you out? Never driven on roads or used a bus or any kind of public transportation? No public school?
So how do you suggest giving and doing your share?

Believe me I understand working hard, but some people may not have had the advantages that you or I had. That doesnt just mean being born into a rich family. Some are born into abusive families, some into no families. Some grow up in areas that make it very difficult to succeed. We all have challenges in our lives.
Again I guess on this we will have to agree to disagree. I tend to think that we should help those who are less fortunate. I personally have no problem paying taxes to help others have the same opportunities that I had.
I was born into a sub middle class family. My father was a union carpenter for 25 years. We didnt have name brand stuff growing up but we had roof over our heads, and always had food to eat. And most importantly I had parents who loved and cared about my brothers and I. I had the support system in my family that helps breed success. Sadly many in this country do not. I am not from a financially rich family but I did have an emotionally rich family and I am well aware that I had it good compared to many in this country. I am all for the less fortunate getting opportunities that I had.



posted on Aug, 29 2008 @ 04:56 PM
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Originally posted by Dronetek
reply to post by mental modulator
 




Republicans could give a flying #@!# about black folks.


You know, I'm getting REALLY sick of stereotyping like this. Republicans don't hate black people. In fact, I'm a pretty right wing guy and I have nothing but respect for the black culture in America. Not only for what they have gone through, but for their dedication to the military in this country. The black contribution to our military has been unmatched in history. This is not an uncommon belief by white republican males (hence, the great admiration for men like Colin Powel).

So please, stop it with the "republicans are racist" BS. Its not true and It really makes you look like a bigot.


Once again shill you took this quote out of context...



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