Originally posted by Anonymous ATSThe limitations of technology are pretty hard evidence to the contrary.

Preposterous statement as you have no idea of the true state of our technology... but as you said your to lazy to even register, so I doubt you would have the skills to follow any research anyway

Or perhaps you're suggesting interplanetary travel without computer assistance?

I would never make such a suggestion... the brain is a powerful computer

They also would have had to launch dozens of rockets without being noticed, back when such things were alien to the general populace and would be massively conspicuous.

Not too many people watching from the Marshall Islands BTW do you know how many secret missions the shuttle flew... yet they were launched with everyone watching?

I guess they set up a mining and refinery plant with only the hugely limited resources afforded by what they could carry, and not only built the structures on mars, but produced the raw materials necessary to do so as well.

Well yes now that you mention it its called ISRU In Situ Resource Utilization

Kinda works like this...

LUNAR AND MARTIAN FIBERGLASS AS A VERSATILE FAMILY
OF ISRU VALUE-ADDED PRODUCTS

by Gary "ROD" Rodriguez, Systems Architect, sysRAND Corporation

The logic employed in our reasoning includes the fact that any In Situ Resource Utilization (ISRU) effort is going to yield copious masses of silicon oxides which can be used in bulk as conventional glass products or, after further separation, can be synthesized as Silicon and Silicon- Carbide Fullerenes for more exotic applications. Additionally, mechanical wrapping of Silicon Webbing could prove to be more practical and durable and a lot less brittle than attempting large scale hot glass molding of structural components.

Identified fuel production ISRU efforts yield partially heated masses of metal oxides as waste byproduct – rich in silicates and metal oxides useful in bulk as conventional glass products. Fiberglass manufacturing increases effectiveness of prior ISRU fuel production by taking advantage of mineral benefaction and elevated process exit temperatures. The resulting structures would be spheres and cylinders with various configurations that could apply to human support systems, along with structures useable as storage tanks for the very Oxygen liberated in ISRU applications.

Oh, and being at the equator, they're also magically conjuring up drinking water and air.

Actually they have been testing these in the mines for such a purpose. Those are high powered LASER cutters by the way

Never mind that it would take a small army to accomplish this, along with hundreds, or even thousands, of launches from earth.

Actually there is no magic involved. The Aquila Caro Transport can handle 690 tons from Leo translunar to Mars in one trip. Supported from Delta Iv heavy lifter launches. Do you have any idea how many launch platforms we have includein TWO at sea? Sea Launch.. the Boeing/Energia one and the Navy's

Do you really think that somebody managed to cover up that many people? What, did they just kill them all? Do you think hundreds of thousands of people are going to keep quiet about this kind of thing?

What are you talking about? You mean NASA? NASA has nothing to do with the other space program... Its Space Command and the NAVY

SPACE COMMAND
General Kevin P. Chilton
Commander, Air Force Space Command

"The establishment of Space Command is a crucial milestone in
the evolution of military space operations. Space is a place--like
land, sea, and air--a theater of operations. And it was just a matter
of time until space was treated as such."
~ General James V. Hartinger, 1 September 1982

Beginning in the mid-1980s, concurrent with the development of space operations and space engineering curricula at the Naval Postgraduate School, the Navy began “coding” officers as space subspecialists. As space subspecialty codes were then assigned to particular officers’ billets on numbered Fleet staffs and at commands ashore, the service began assigning Navy members with matching codes to those positions. More recently, the Navy has begun efforts to build a cadre of “space smart” officers, enlisted personnel and civilian employees.

The Naval Space Cadre is composed of active-duty and reserve Navy and Marine Corps officers and enlisted personnel, along with Navy civilian employees from a wide range of career fields who meet mandatory education, training and experience standards established for a particular certification level. The Navy Space Cadre is a distinct body of expertise horizontally and vertically integrated within Navy and Marine Corps active duty, reserves and civilian employee communities organized to operationalize space

Initial identification of the cadre began in mid-2001 with the standup of the Naval Space Cadre Working Group and culminated in a naval message (NAVADMIN 201/03 DTG211435Z JUL 03) announcing the first 700 officer members of the cadre. These officers were identified by the subspecialty codes of 6206, Space Systems Operations, and 5500, Space Systems Engineering or by the additional qualification designator of VS1, VS2, VS3 or VS4. Identification of enlisted and civilian cadre members is more challenging, as these groups do not have specific space identifiers like the officers do.

Approximately 265 billets are currently identified as space billets. These jobs are in Navy, joint and National Security Space organizations. Space cadre members are currently assigned throughout the National Security Space arena, including the National Reconnaissance Office, National Security Space Architect, National Security Space Integration, MILSATCOM Joint Program Office, as well as in all Navy organizations that deal with space.

High Frontier
The Journal for Space and Missile Professionals
Summer 2004

There's not one shred of evidence for any of this except for some odd pictures, and those only qualify as evidence of your delusions.

The only one deluded here is you because you to lazy to look at stuff right under your eyes... You are also a coward, hiding behind an anonymous post, no matter your excuses

(I could keep going but this is getting out of hand).... Or, you're seeing shapes in the clouds.

Your right better quite before you make a total idiot of yourself.





[edit on 29-8-2008 by zorgon]

Originally posted by rocksarerocks
Why of course the base belongs to us. Along with all of your other base. That also belongs to us.

[edit on 28-8-2008 by rocksarerocks]

Yes, all your bases are belong to us.


And can someone tell me what exactly I'm looking at in those pictures? Oh what? A bunch of rocks? Alrighty then.

Nice find Op, definitely something unusual and not natural in that photo you posted. Star and flag for the effort in bringing this to our attention. Although its no definitive proof of anything, it most certainly is strange enough to warrant further investigation!

MikeSingh

That photo you posted, is that a lake of some sort??? i can see the ripples in it. To me thats a lake but then again maybe I'm mad



[edit on 29-8-2008 by kcfusion]

Originally posted by Azrael75 I asked about alternative 3 several times and have since been mocked, derided, and confused, but not answered. thanks all of you.

Your welcome Perhaps its your attitude... and I suppose you MISSED my answer to you about 8 posts back while you were throwing your tantrum?

Is it me are does it seem like we are getting better pics of Mars it almost seems as if they want us to find things?

Originally posted by duffster
Common Zorgon what gives you the right so show my house on ATS

All joking aside great find,i wonder why they did not block this out like they do on the moon pics,did some one forget to clean it up or do they think we are all Sheeple.

Shame we can not get this kinda stuff on msm

Star and flag

Honestly, they could advertise apartments on Mars in the Martian Hilton and it would NOT impact you one jot.

If suddenly it were proven that people were able to live on mars, you still wouldnt be going there, and so the sheeple would still be sheeple. They don't need to hide anything from us, especially with people already assuming that they do - you're doing their job for them, mr Guy Incognito.



Other than the CT taint, great pic Zorgon ! very interesting. It is such a shame that only one organisation controls the things we get to see, it'd be great to have a poll which could influence the manner in which we utilise the space program, from a pedestrian perspective.

I'd vote for more observation of things we've seen, than yet more resources spent on less detail but further out there.

(I check and I check, and still spell martian wrong.. zoinks!)

[edit on 8/29/2008 by bloodcircle]

It looks like some people get easily offended here.

.. do you guys really seeing anything on this blurry, grainy pictures?

Oo

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS


What about the sheer number of people that would have been involved with such a project. It took literally hundreds of thousands of people for the Apollo missions, and that's just the moon. Do you really think that somebody managed to cover up that many people? What, did they just kill them all? Do you think hundreds of thousands of people are going to keep quiet about this kind of thing? There's not one shred of evidence for any of this except for some odd pictures, and those only qualify as evidence of your delusions.

An argument that I see used all the time to discredit a UFO cover-up and which is so much twaddle on those occasions as it is when you used it.

If hundred's of thousand of people scream from the rooftops about 'this kind of thing' NO ONE WOULD BELIEVE THEM! That is the beauty of the way the attitude towards the whole UFO, alien, buildings/artifacts on Mars or the moon has been allowed and encouraged to develop.

That attitude is so ingrained in today's society that it has become almost second nature. Mention UFOs or possible bases on Mars to most people and they'll laugh and look at you like you just grew a spare head.

It's an attitude that allows someone to keep a secret by letting everyone know about it, but make sure no one believes it. It also discourages whistleblowers, for the same reason.... no one would believe them, as the few who've tried have found out.

So to sum up... That argument is complete and utter tosh!

So, apparently I have to register to post more than once every 12 hours. There goes my laziness. Just curious, you said at the end of your post that I was hiding behind anonymity. How is this less anonymous? Do we need to exchange names, addresses, SSNs, etc to debate something so the other doesn't claim "zomg you're hiding"?

Preposterous statement as you have no idea of the true state of our technology... but as you said your to lazy to even register, so I doubt you would have the skills to follow any research anyway

And you know all the secret technological advancements that would have made this possible? Please, elaborate on the interplanetary space travel circa 1950.

I would never make such a suggestion... the brain is a powerful computer

The brain only appears to resemble a computer, it is in fact, vastly different. It's also incapable of calculating interplanetary vectors on the fly in real time while making course corrections. If you really think this is something a human could do, you're just plain stupid. For short distances, perhaps, but not when errors are magnified so greatly.

Not too many people watching from the Marshall Islands BTW do you know how many secret missions the shuttle flew... yet they were launched with everyone watching?

zomg, secret shuttle missions to Mars to set up human habitations that only random scrubs on the internet can figure out! Congratulations, you figured it all out, it was the secret space shuttle missions! You also ignore the problem of the raw materials necessary to accomplish this task, and people involved.

Well yes now that you mention it its called ISRU In Situ Resource Utilization
(...)

So this experimental technology that is still in the development phase was fully deployed 50 years ago? Yeah, that's logical. Why don't I just link to how energy can be converted to matter theoretically, and say that's proof that the government is building a new moon orbiting Venus via collected solar energy. Makes about as much sense.

Actually they have been testing these in the mines for such a purpose

Awesome, another bit of technology still in the development phase that you claim supports your theory. See comment above.

Actually there is no magic involved. The Aquila Caro Transport can handle 690 tons from Leo translunar to Mars in one trip.

Ahh, so we just launch from the moon. Got it, that explains everything. Oh wait, how did we get the materials to the moon? That's right, from earth. You still have to launch everything from here.

What are you talking about? You mean NASA? NASA has nothing to do with the other space program... Its Space Command and the NAVY

Never said that. I said that such an endeavor would require hundreds of thousands of people involved, which is impossible to cover up. Unless....THE WHOLE THING IS RUN BY ROBOTS! Oh my god, it all makes sense now! There's a secret robot underground performing missions to mars for unknown reasons without anyone knowing! Thank god you're here to scour over every picture of Mars until you find something that looks different than the surrounding rock and apply pretty colors to better show vague shapes that can only possibly be buildings, not natural landforms.

The only one delude here is you because you to lazy to look at stuff right under your eyes...

No, I'm being logical. You're making one massive deductive leap after another, each subsequent one tied to the previous by lower and lower amounts of evidence. The real question is why the hell would anyone do the things you are claiming? It's completely illogical. Have you ever sat down and thought critically about the chain of thoughts that took you where you are?

You are also a coward, hiding behind an anonymous post, no matter your excuses

Yeah, and so are you. What's in a name? A rose by any other name smells as sweet

[edit on 29-8-2008 by Fluffynub]

Originally posted by DagarAn argument that I see used all the time to discredit a UFO cover-up and which is so much twaddle on those occasions as it is when you used it.

If hundred's of thousand of people scream from the rooftops about 'this kind of thing' NO ONE WOULD BELIEVE THEM! That is the beauty of the way the attitude towards the whole UFO, alien, buildings/artifacts on Mars or the moon has been allowed and encouraged to develop.

If one person screams it, yes. You're correct. If ten screamed it, yes. If a hundred thousand, or even a thousand, did, and had actual evidence to support it, then no. The fact is that no actual evidence has been given. Grainy photographs of ambiguous structures/landforms aren't proof of anything. There are natural phenomenon we just don't understand, you can't just claim anything circular or with a right angle was made by a sentient lifeform. The key is evidence. There just isn't any.

That attitude is so ingrained in today's society that it has become almost second nature. Mention UFOs or possible bases on Mars to most people and they'll laugh and look at you like you just grew a spare head.

1. Most people have massive misconceptions about UFOs, yes. There are UFOs, but there aren't aliens in them. The government does cover a lot of them up as well. The reason they cover them up is because they are usually secret government projects of some sort. Looking at an irregular light in the sky and claiming alien is just as bad as dismissing it out of hand as being a hoax.

2. People laugh at possible bases on Mars rightly. Doing something like that is a logistical nightmare, and suggesting that it was done entirely in secret without a single information leak is absurd. The moon landing wasn't secret, so why would a mars landing be? Secret plans to destroy the Earth and create a new civilization in an infinitely less hospitable place perhaps? Motive is completely lacking along with evidence.

It's an attitude that allows someone to keep a secret by letting everyone know about it, but make sure no one believes it. It also discourages whistleblowers, for the same reason.... no one would believe them, as the few who've tried have found out.

Bad policy, and one that simply isn't practiced. The atomic bomb was kept secret. Area 51 was kept secret (not the alien nonsense, the military R&D base). Why the sudden paradigm shift, and why hasn't anyone come forward? Out of hundreds of thousands of people, somebody must have wanted a book deal, or at least some temporary celebrity.

So to sum up... That argument is complete and utter tosh!

No, the argument is perfectly valid. You can't just say "but nobody would believe them!" and claim that's a rebuttal. The fact of the matter is that a lot of people would believe them. Like the majority of this forum.

I'm not gonna say whether i think these pictures show anything artificial or not.

However what I do want to say is.....Zorgon, and MikeS. Althought I respect both of your efforts here on ATS , These little "clicks" that you are all forming here, concering Mars and Moon structures, reminds me of gradeschool behavoir. It's quite childesh.

I mean if your gonna post an image, and someone asks a polite question about it, answer it. It's your thread, so yea, it is actually your responsibility. I mean unless you want to come off like your are?

Just because they don't agree with you, you find it beneath you to even answer them? That is what is called an eletist(sp?) attitude, and well, personally, I find it very annoying.

Not everyone is gonna agree with you. Even less are gonna agree with you with this type of behavoir.

You have to understand this is like looking at clouds, not everyone is gonna see what your seeing, and they might ask you to point it out.

Saying "Get glasses, or a better monitor", well is a pompous frigging response. Instead how about pointing it out a little better. Sure I see it's nicely colored these "shapes that you find artificial, and it's plain to me what you are looking at , and should be for most, well some need some extra help. So either help them or don't but leave the snide comments out. It just makes you seem like you think you are above these people.

In conclusion, I'll agree with the guy who said he'd file this picture in the "could be something folder". But my folder will read, "Could be something, but most likely isn't." I'd like to see some more definitive pictures, that clearly show something artifical.