Kaaba the big black cube in the center of mecca??

reply to post by karl 12


I really wish you people that claim Allah is a Moon God would do more investigating than just Google the top 5 search results to Allah + Moon. Then you would see that the argument that Allah is the Pagan Arab Moon God has no credibility and is pure Anti-Islamic Propaganda.

1. The actual name for the Pagan Arab Moon God is "Hubal"
   
2. Prophet Muhammad destroyed every Pagan Idol Statue at the Ka'bah, INCLUDING the statue of the Moon God Hubal
   
3. The Qur'an (Koran) clearly states:
   
   "And from among His Signs are the night and the day, and the sun and the moon. Do not bow down (prostrate) to the sun nor to the moon, but only bow down (prostrate) to "Allah" Who created them, if you (really) worship Him." [41:37]
   
   "They ask you about the new moons. Say: These are signs to mark fixed periods of time for mankind and for the pilgrimage." [2:189]
   

Click here for more information.

Originally posted by Sahabi
reply to post by karl 12

 

I really wish you people that claim Allah is a Moon God would do more investigating than just Google the top 5 search results to Allah + Moon. Then you would see that the argument that Allah is the Pagan Arab Moon God has no credibility and is pure Anti-Islamic Propaganda.

1. The actual name for the Pagan Arab Moon God is "Hubal"
   
2. Prophet Muhammad destroyed every Pagan Idol Statue at the Ka'bah, INCLUDING the statue of the Moon God Hubal
   
3. The Qur'an (Koran) clearly states:
   
   "And from among His Signs are the night and the day, and the sun and the moon. Do not bow down (prostrate) to the sun nor to the moon, but only bow down (prostrate) to "Allah" Who created them, if you (really) worship Him." [41:37]
   
   "They ask you about the new moons. Say: These are signs to mark fixed periods of time for mankind and for the pilgrimage." [2:189]
   

Many thanks for that info! I think it clears up a lot of rubbish info being posted.

I'm amazed where people dig up such nonsense is earlier posts - Moongod!

Originally posted by Sahabi"The black stone found in the wall of the Ka'bah is believed to be a meteor, and Islamic customs make no significant mention of this rock at all, except the fact that Muhammad kissed it. Also, during a reconstruction/renovation of the Ka'bah, the black stone was put in place equally by the head of all the tribes of the Quraish.

Thanks, Sahabi! That clears it up, the... similar (I suppose) to the millions of Christians who make their way to the Mount of Olives and the Via Dolorosa during Easter so that they can walk where Jesus walked in the season of his death and resurrection.

I loved the solution to the tricky political question of who should set the Black Stone in its place.

reply to post by Sahabi


Thanks for the reply,there is some interesting discussion about the subject here:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
I suppose all religions make wild,outlandish,supernatural claims that (conveniently) cannot be proven-but,relgious agendas and conditioned propaganda aside,the pagan moon god concept sounded far more feasible and plausible than the alternative.
Has it been unequivocably proven false?

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
when i look at the image i posted above, i don't see a black stone. I see, possibly, 5 small pieces embedded in a reddish material.

I would be interested to see an image of what the stone is supposed to look like.

Ok, edit to add:

This is a drawing i found of it:





I would be interested to know what it looked like before being broken.

[edit on 7-11-2008 by bigfatfurrytexan]

I am being quite serious when I ask should non beleivers (kuffars) be even looking at this image.
Given the furore that ensued when someone depicted an image of mohammed and the fact that non muslims are absolutely forbidden to enter Mecca on pain of a years imprisonment and deportation,is it not a fair question?

Originally posted by karl 12

I am being quite serious when I ask should non beleivers (kuffars) be even looking at this image.
Given the furore that ensued when someone depicted an image of mohammed and the fact that non muslims are absolutely forbidden to enter Mecca on pain of a years imprisonment and deportation,is it not a fair question?

That is not my concern.

Here is my take on it:

The stone is not a God, nor is it an idol. Therefore, the muslim faith should have no issue with photos being taken of it, nor should they have issue with drawings being displayed of it.

Their are multiple sites that show images of the Kaaba (i just did a cursory Google search to find that drawing, honestly).

Do you know WHY non-muslims are not allowed to enter Mecca? Or, the reason behind the story? I am rusty on this (been a few years since i studied Islam, honestly, as i have chosen to dive full force into my personal faith instead now), but it is something along the lines of Mohammed did not want to see so many merchants of non-muslim decent making money on the pilgrims in Mecca. It was a social reason, not a religious reason.

But that is a good question to ask. Thank you.

Originally posted by karl 12
reply to post by Sahabi

 

Thanks for the reply,there is some interesting discussion about the subject here:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
I suppose all religions make wild,outlandish,supernatural claims that (conveniently) cannot be proven-but,relgious agendas and conditioned propaganda aside,the pagan moon god concept sounded far more feasible and plausible than the alternative.
Has it been unequivocably proven false?

Look, it's quite simple really.

Allah is just the arabic word for God. Muslims worship the supreme being commonly called Allah\God\etc etc..

If you ask an english Muslim he will say he believes in God (the english word). You get the drift.

Many cultures and religions have different names but they actually refer to the same being.

There are actually 99 names of God in islam which you can find here:

www.sufism.org...

The insane discussion about moon-god becomes irrelevent.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan

Originally posted by karl 12

I am being quite serious when I ask should non beleivers (kuffars) be even looking at this image.
Given the furore that ensued when someone depicted an image of mohammed and the fact that non muslims are absolutely forbidden to enter Mecca on pain of a years imprisonment and deportation,is it not a fair question?

That is not my concern.

Here is my take on it:

The stone is not a God, nor is it an idol. Therefore, the muslim faith should have no issue with photos being taken of it, nor should they have issue with drawings being displayed of it.

Their are multiple sites that show images of the Kaaba (i just did a cursory Google search to find that drawing, honestly).

Do you know WHY non-muslims are not allowed to enter Mecca? Or, the reason behind the story? I am rusty on this (been a few years since i studied Islam, honestly, as i have chosen to dive full force into my personal faith instead now), but it is something along the lines of Mohammed did not want to see so many merchants of non-muslim decent making money on the pilgrims in Mecca. It was a social reason, not a religious reason.

But that is a good question to ask. Thank you.

Great response!

Originally posted by karl 12
(Allah/moon god)Has it been unequivocably proven false?

Yes.

Please, let's get back to the topic at hand (the stone). The link to the "moon god" thread was given above so you can read it at your convenience and ask questions about it there.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
Do you know WHY non-muslims are not allowed to enter Mecca? Or, the reason behind the story?

I don't know, but I do know that many religions restrict who sees their temples. The Mormons are one religion in the US who do so and who don't allow pictures of some of their sacred spaces to be taken. The social group, the Masons, at one time had such practices.

HOWEVER, THIS ISN'T MEANT TO OPEN UP A DISCUSSION ON EITHER OF THOSE RELIGIONS (this pointed remark wasn't being delivered at you, Texan, but at those tempted to grab on the above paragraph and run with it.)

It's simply to note that the practice is not that unusual, even here in 21st century America.

The topic still is the stone and its building.

karl 12
Has it been unequivocably proven false?

For the sake of staying on topic, let me just say "Yes" it is a proven fact that "Hubal" is the Pagan Arab Moon God, and Not "Allah." The name "Hubal" is written in the places dedicated to moon god worship, and Allah is not.

Also, if you look at the OFFICIAL Arabic Translated version of the Holy Bible, the word "Allah" is used in every instance instead of "God." If there were such a conspiracy or discrepancy with "Allah" I'm very sure the Christians, Catholics, and Jews would not allow "Allah" to be included in the Bible.

karl 12

I am being quite serious when I ask should non beleivers (kuffars) be even looking at this image.
Given the furore that ensued when someone depicted an image of mohammed and the fact that non muslims are absolutely forbidden to enter Mecca on pain of a years imprisonment and deportation,is it not a fair question?

There is no harm in images or pictures to be taken of the black stone, the Ka'bah, or Mecca, or no harm in non-Muslims looking at the images. The reason that Muslims got so upset about artistic depictions of Muhammad is because Muhammad personally forbid any images or portraits of himself. The reason he forbid any depiction of himself is to ensure people worship God and do not worship him. He did not want his image to be revered or worshiped, and he did not want people to imagine him while they were praying to God.

bigfatfurrytexan

Do you know WHY non-muslims are not allowed to enter Mecca?

When Muhammad and the Muslim army conquered Mecca, he immediately forbid non-Muslims from entering. The reason is because Mecca is an extremely holy place, so much so that Muslims must undergo ritual shavings and cleanings before coming near the Ka'bah. Often time when people of other faiths enter areas deemed as holy by other people, they do not have as much a respect for the place as the believer would.

Also, in the very beginning of the Ka'bah's creation by Abraham and Ishmael, the building was a "church" dedicated to God. Look at what the Pagan Arabs did to it. They desecrated it with idol worship. Keeping non-Muslims out of Mecca and away from the Ka'bah is a way to ensure that idol worship will not occur again in the area.

i am a muslim and as being inquistive is something encouraged in Islam.

Once a year, many muslims during the holy month of ramadan make pilmgrage to Mecca and visit the Ka'aba as part of Hajj (one of the 5 must do's of being a muslim).

The walk 7 times anti clock wise around the Ka'aba as part of one of the rituals of the Hajj. while performing this many (if they can reach it) will touch the black stone. This along with other rituals performed at other sites are throwing stones at the devil etc represent cleansing of the soul.. alot like confession but on a much more involved scale..

other interesting observations are that the 7 rounds of anti clock wise walk around Ka'aba may represent walking the path to the 7th heaven.

If you google the steps of performing Hajj you can get an insight into all the rituals and what they represent to a muslim..

Originally posted by Byrd

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
Do you know WHY non-muslims are not allowed to enter Mecca? Or, the reason behind the story?

I don't know, but I do know that many religions restrict who sees their temples. The Mormons are one religion in the US who do so and who don't allow pictures of some of their sacred spaces to be taken. The social group, the Masons, at one time had such practices.
.

I thought I'd clear one thing up first.

Non-muslim people are welcome in any mosque but there is a problem in that they need to respect the other people in the mosque. For example, the mosque won't approve of bikini clad women strolling in and disrespecting the energy being created there. Likewise, men who don't take their shoes off or drunk are also restricted.

In many countries in Europe there are often school trips made up of mixed religion children going to mosques. They are all guided to respect the etiquettes of visiting a religious place of high positive energy and there is no problem whatsoever.

Going back to Saud's Arabia - there is not only restrictions on non-muslim going to Mecca at the time of Hajj but also Muslims! Because of space and safety issues many are restricted now.

reply to post by C.C.Benjamin


Well technically you're right. But "Pagan" is a Christian word meaning "Not Christian" (It does not mean what the new agers think it means, no matter how many Scott Cunningham books you've read).

They also don't "worship" the thing. It is a religious relic no more worshipped than the Arc of the Covenant would be if it were made public today.

Is there a reason for this imagery

As a round stone area, and a round silver frame, when beating it onto the corner of the building, it's the naturally resulting shape... I don't think they intended it to "resemble" anything...and the connotation that it does...well, I wouldn't mention it if you're ever there....hehe....

I still remember that in Saudi, there's a channel that has nothing but the video of the pilgrams around it, 24/7.... Guess it's the next best thing to being there?

reply to post by Gazrok


Yep, that channel is shown in many Muslim countries, it does have some other shows on it too during Ramadam

The Kaaba webcam

This was a favorite of some of my students. In one of the student run business we set up onegroup of students had this running 24/7 on a monitor.

kaaba and the rock represents JESUS.

KAABA IS A CUBE WHCH HAS 6 SIDES = 6 = JESUS

ROCK AND STONE REPRESENTS JESUS

reply to post by dave13


THE STONE IS RAPPED UP IN SILVER,

STONE IS JESUS, SILVER IS WHAT JUDAS BETRAYED JESUS FOR.

Originally posted by dave13
reply to post by dave13

 

THE STONE IS RAPPED UP IN SILVER,

STONE IS JESUS, SILVER IS WHAT JUDAS BETRAYED JESUS FOR.

More actually the silver holds the rocks fragments together after it was broken up by the Qarmatians, circa 952 AD