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Military help for Georgia is a 'declaration of war', says Moscow

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posted on Aug, 28 2008 @ 03:35 AM
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I like the way that voting McCain is portrayed to be answer to getting all these pesky nations back in line and obeying again. Reminds me of the old days of medicine when they used to give the patient mercury to cure them . When they deteriorated further due to the mercury poisoning, the answer was to give them even more mercury .




posted on Aug, 28 2008 @ 03:58 AM
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(CNN) -- Russia has appealed to an Asian security alliance to support its actions in Georgia.

Russian President Dmitry Medvedev meets with Chinese President Hu Jintao.
1 of 2 Russian President Dmitry Medvedev sought support from the members of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) at a summit Thursday in the Central Asian nation of Tajikistan, The Associated Press reported.

Medvedev told the group, which includes China, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan, that support for Russia would serve as a "serious signal for those are trying to justify the aggression."

The move comes as Russia tries to counterbalance mounting pressure from the West over its military action in Georgia and its recognition of two breakaway regions -- Abkhazia and South Ossetia.

Russian Prime Minister Vladimir will talk about the crisis in an exclusive interview with CNN's Matthew Chance at 11am (GMT, 6amET) Thursday.


Potentially, this could be taken as lines being drawn.


I must say, Putins interview with CNN Will be very interesting



posted on Aug, 28 2008 @ 04:20 AM
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I don't trust that Matthew Chance , everything he reports is skewed and made to look like it's the Russians fault. Even when he finally got to see Tskhinvali he couldn't say it was what the Georgians did, but rather the cause of fighting between Russian and Georgians in the city . Whereas everywhere else in georgia he is falling over himself to blame every broken window, every pothole in the road on russia. He's a disgrace to his profession.



posted on Aug, 28 2008 @ 05:13 AM
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reply to post by Agit8dChop
 


China will not get involved.

Asia Times had an interesting article relating to this story. China and India have nothing to gain from this conflict - neither are interested or concerned.

Asia Times Online: Let's talk about World War III



Obviously, Russian troops can overwhelm the Georgian military, but they do not stand a chance against the United States. Active military doctrine has an answer to that - limited Russian use of nuclear weapons against the military bases from which Americans mount attacks and against command and control centers. We are talking about an aircraft carrier in the Mediterranean and perhaps a few US bases in Europe. Welcome to World War III - mostly conventional and spiced with a few nuclear mushrooms here and there.

The truly fascinating aspect of this gloomy scenario is that the two leading emerging economic and political powers of the world, China and India, are completely outside the game. For them, there are no interests and no stakes, whether real or imaginary, in a US-Russian war over the South Caucasus.


The article is absolutely correct. However, let us hope we do not see some mushroom clouds over Eastern Europe.



posted on Aug, 28 2008 @ 06:15 AM
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Breaking news:

The Asian Alliance has supported Russia, but denounced the use of violence
China gave acknowledgement of the peace keeping operations, but did not support the extension of violence into Georgia and any other neighbouring regions.



posted on Aug, 28 2008 @ 07:04 AM
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Originally posted by maloy
Some of you may remember how Russia stood by when Kosovo became independent several months ago. Many predicted that Russia would pledge military support for their ally Serbia or even assist Serbia in restoring "constitutional order" in Kosovo.



Well, russia ackknowledged the independance of Ossetia and the other state but still refusing the independance of Kosovo... That shows clearly what russia is trying to do. But they will fail.



posted on Aug, 28 2008 @ 07:13 AM
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Originally posted by MikeboydUS
reply to
Germany elected Hitler and his National Socialist party too back in the 1930s. Just because a nation is stupid enough to democratically make itself undemocratic doesnt mean we as a democratic republic should blindly accept their stupidity.


So what you saying? The EU should come liberate America from Bush?

Just havin' a laugh!! (but i'm kinda serious!)



posted on Aug, 28 2008 @ 09:49 AM
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Originally posted by emergencyresponseteam

Well, russia ackknowledged the independance of Ossetia and the other state but still refusing the independance of Kosovo... That shows clearly what russia is trying to do. But they will fail.


Well, US ackknowledged the independance of Kosovo but still refusing the independance of Ossetia and the other state... That shows clearly what US is trying to do. But they will fail.



posted on Aug, 28 2008 @ 10:22 AM
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Originally posted by redchina

Originally posted by emergencyresponseteam

Well, russia ackknowledged the independance of Ossetia and the other state but still refusing the independance of Kosovo... That shows clearly what russia is trying to do. But they will fail.


Well, US ackknowledged the independance of Kosovo but still refusing the independance of Ossetia and the other state... That shows clearly what US is trying to do. But they will fail.


Geez, they really should rename ats to whu (we hate usa).



posted on Aug, 28 2008 @ 10:38 AM
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reply to post by maloy
 


The reason the ships were moved to a nearby port is simple. We cannot look like the aggressors. We have to be shot at first to have just cause. The next move is clearly for Putin and his sock puppet to make. We will slowly up the tension as more and more ships come and then the "peacekeepers" from NATO all carrying a box of "relief" with them.

[edit on 28-8-2008 by Fromabove]



posted on Aug, 28 2008 @ 10:43 AM
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Wy won't the Chinise help Russia..? Simple. China has a vast interest in the economy of the USA. Their stability is dependant on our stability. The best Ruissia will get from them is nuetrallity. The Chinese have their own plans for Asia. So unless someone invents a DNA china bomb, the whole world will eventually be swarming with chinese, absorbing every other race to extinction.

You will be assimilated !

Ressistance is futile !

Today the Olypics... tomorrow the world...



posted on Aug, 28 2008 @ 10:47 AM
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reply to post by MikeboydUS
 


I dont think its fair to call the Germans stupid for electing Hitler, I believe that most of them and the world had no idea what would happen and they were desperate inpoverished people who needed something big to turn it around-but again who of them could have really known what would happen before it was too late. It sounds a little like our situation (very little, but..) were looking for something to turn the tide and solve our problems in the new election and a lot of people are basing it on who will get them out of the poor house, out of Iraq, etc. And many of them/us will vote specifically to meet our personal needs and do not look at the big picture(what we can see of it)



posted on Aug, 28 2008 @ 11:27 AM
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Totally rubbish, Moskva are falling wet dream, Beijing didn't say anything about to support what Russia did recently! If someone can't read Chinese, please learn it.

俄《独立报》27日报道说,“俄罗斯外交部已提出修改案,要求在声明中加入在安全和预防冲突问题上共同行动 的内容,但中国不同意这些建议。”报道援引俄东亚和上合组织研究中心高级研究员古谢夫的话 ,“到目前为止,不论是上合组织成员国还是观察员国,都没有明确表示支持俄罗斯在南奥塞梯的军事行动。



posted on Aug, 28 2008 @ 11:30 AM
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Look for an attack just after Obama is elected. He will direct a peace treaty and in 2 years become the Global leader of a "world party" .....
Change for the World not just the USA. Everyone but China will fall for him and eventually China will be assimilated for profits .......they too like money and a world created for profit is ideal for them. They may not be called the emperor but they will financially be.

just my 2 cents



posted on Aug, 28 2008 @ 11:43 AM
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I don't know how many people here frequently go to Chinese military forum, if you go, you can find most of Chinese has never been forgotten how did Mongolia become independence. As I said another thread in this forum, I have already predicted what Russia would do according to Moskva did during recent 300 years. Russia still is the biggest threat to this world as Den Xiaoping had said.

War? yes, I knew Russia didn't promise that they will never use nuke first. Let them throw it out, I'll see they dare!



posted on Aug, 28 2008 @ 11:49 AM
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reply to post by speaknoevil07
 


Arh yes, If I am the president of China, I'll make a deal with US: US admit Nansha Island is ours, and let us beat Viet nam such ungrateful race, we will support the NATO stand in Georgia.



posted on Aug, 28 2008 @ 11:50 AM
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I can't believe how naive and blinded some people are by their own self-loathing of the United States.

Let's get this straight.

1) Chechnya/Kosovo happened.
2) Russians gave passports to Abkhazes and Ossetians.
3) Russia moved a large army to the Russo-Georgian border.
4) Ossetian separatists attack Georgian peacekeepers/police.
5) Georgia responds.
5) Russia decides to not try to broker a ceasefire with their already existing diplomats and peacekeepers that Georgia has already agreed to have in Georgia, but rather...
6) Russia invades Georgia.
7) Russia refuses to pull out of Georgia after they agree to.
8) Russia declares parts of another sovereign nation independent.
9) Russia threatens war with any Georgian ally.

You see who is banging the drums of war here?
And you people STILL blame the United States?

All people who "understand Russia" should understand that Russia helped to kick out 230 000 - 250 000 Georgians out of Abkhazia back in early nineties and killed tens of thousands of them:

en.wikipedia.org...

That is why Georgians are a little bit reluctant to give Abkhazia away. Since if there had never been ethnic cleansing of Georgians there it would clearly be Georgian territory.

[edit on 28-8-2008 by emergencyresponseteam]



posted on Aug, 28 2008 @ 12:08 PM
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reply to post by emergencyresponseteam
 


Your source is wikipedia? Okay, so one day I happened across the wiki-page for John Stamos, and to my surprised--and a short-lived time--his picture was replaced by an orangutan. Get the picture here?



posted on Aug, 28 2008 @ 12:40 PM
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Originally posted by emergencyresponseteam
1) Chechnya/Kosovo happened.


Yes they did. So what do they have to do with this according to you? Kosovo was given independence by U.S. and NATO - so why can't S Ossetia and Abkhazia be given independence?



Originally posted by emergencyresponseteam
2) Russians gave passports to Abkhazes and Ossetians.


As well as to some Ukrainian, Belarus, Georgians, Latvians, and Lithuanians in the 90's. So what? It is not illegal to have dual citizenship - this practice is common in many ethnically - redistributed areas around the globe.



Originally posted by emergencyresponseteam
3) Russia moved a large army to the Russo-Georgian border.


Define "large" and define "move".

The 58th army was always stationed in the North Caucasus military district. And Russia's move was reactionary to Georgia's and U.S.' actions - the two were holding large military exercises while Saakashvili continued to preach hatered of Russia.



Originally posted by emergencyresponseteam
4) Ossetian separatists attack Georgian peacekeepers/police.


Osssetians attacking Georgian police and Georgian police attacking Ossetians - this has occured for the past 15 years. Each uses some excuse or other to sneak small attacks against each other. It is not clear who provoked who, or who crossed whose border in that first week of August.



Originally posted by emergencyresponseteam
5) Georgia responds.


Georgia was ready for the invasion of S Ossetia for over a year and has been preparing for it. And if it was a "response" - it was a rather disproportionate one - and it wasn't aimed at Ossetian armed rebels but at civilians.



Originally posted by emergencyresponseteam
5) Russia decides to not try to broker a ceasefire with their already existing diplomats and peacekeepers that Georgia has already agreed to have in Georgia, but rather....


Georgia violated a declared ceasefire several times, including on August 7th. After that Russia refused to accept any more Georgian false ceasefires.

As for the peacekeepers you mention - On August 7th Georgia opened direct fire on Russian peacekeepers, before Russia even intervened.

So explain why Russia should trust Georgia after this?



Originally posted by emergencyresponseteam
6) Russia invades Georgia.


If Russia "invaded" Georgia Tbilisi would be swarming with Russian tanks, and Saakashvili would be deported if not arrested.

Russia went in to restore the ceasefire by kicking Georgian forces far away from the conflict zone. That might be viewed as aggressive - but it is no invasion.

If you want to see what an actual invasion looks like refer to the U.S. invasion of Iraq.




Originally posted by emergencyresponseteam
7) Russia refuses to pull out of Georgia after they agree to.


Russia has already left Gori and Senaki. And the ceasefire agreement spells certain conditions - including that Russia has the right to maintain a sizeable buffer zone around S Ossetia. Nor does the agreement state the deadline for Russian complete withdrawal. Russia did not violate the agreement.



Originally posted by emergencyresponseteam
8) Russia declares parts of another sovereign nation independent.


Pot meet kettle. Didn't U.S. declare a part of another sovereign nation inpendent this year (hint - refer to 1) above).

And Russia didn't "declare" them to be independent, it recognized their independence. A referendum held in the breakaway republics lead the republics to declare themselves to be independent.



Originally posted by emergencyresponseteam
9) Russia threatens war with any Georgian ally.


False. Where did you dig this out? Georgia has many allies, and as long as they don't stick their nose where they don't belong everything will be nice and peachy.

Russia stated that it doesn't rule out war in the case that any Georgian allies take direct part in trying to invade the now sovereign states of S Ossetia or Abkhazia.



Originally posted by emergencyresponseteam
You see who is banging the drums of war here?


You can hear drums? All I hear is the roar and chanting coming from the U.S. military industrial complex and its "projects" in Afghanistan and Iraq, and the creation of a NATO buffer zone around Russia. That roar might be deafening out everything else.



Originally posted by emergencyresponseteam
All people who "understand Russia" should understand that Russia helped to kick out 230 000 - 250 000 Georgians out of Abkhazia back in early nineties and killed tens of thousands of them:


Russia did not take part in that conflict - and it played both sides off, much like all geopolitical giants do. I don't think anyone is defending what Abkhaz did at that time, and Georgia also committed its share of attrocities.



Originally posted by emergencyresponseteam
en.wikipedia.org...


Great source there.



Originally posted by emergencyresponseteam
That is why Georgians are a little bit reluctant to give Abkhazia away.


Yet Georgia started a war knowing that should they lose - they will lose the breakaway regions forever. It is one thing to refuse to grant independence to the separatists, and Russia had no problem with this. It is another thing to launched a blitzkrieg attack against civilians, which is what Georgia had done.

Saakashvili was ready to give-up the republics and go out with a bang, because he is more concerned with being granted entry into NATO rather than territorial integrity of his own country. His action was reckless - and it is he who is to blame for S Ossetia and Abkhazia becoming independent.



Again if you want to draw parallels - look at what U.S. did in Kosovo. That conflict is eerily similar to that in Georgia. Russia is doing now, what U.S. did in that conflict. So who is U.S. to tell Russia what do this time around?



posted on Aug, 28 2008 @ 12:53 PM
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Military help for Georgia is a 'declaration of war', says Moscow.

That PLUS This...

About 100 servicemembers (trainers) in Georgia
Mikhail Saakashvili said his country’s military needs to be rebuilt.
"We need to have this country defended, and we need new people trained," he said. "We need new equipment, and we will work very closely with the U.S. to get all of this."

EQUALS....... War.



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