Starred and flagged because I told a member on a U2U to watch for a very Russian solution to georgia and western co-operation.

Seems they are deadly serious.

Some of you may remember how Russia stood by when Kosovo became independent several months ago. Many predicted that Russia would pledge military support for their ally Serbia or even assist Serbia in restoring "constitutional order" in Kosovo.

Russia let that one go, but no one had a doubt that Russia was rightfully looking for revenge. This is it. South Ossetia and Abkhazia are independent - and there is absolutely nothing the West can do about that. NATO can withhold their recognition for the trwo repiblics - but to Russia and to the people in the two republics it does not matter.


If U.S. wants to assist Georgia with "holding on" to the breakaway regions - do not expect Russia to move over. All NATO can do now is arm Georgia to the teeth - but it no longer matters. The conflict is done for good.

Totally agree with you.

However, David Milliband told russia 'it would face punishment' over this issue.

Tought alk from a weedy little freak. Russia won this round easily by a country mile.

This punishment talk is getting very annoying. So far the West is only talking, and talking, and talking. And then talking some more to back up their earlier talk.

If they want to punish Russia - great. Do it. Medvedev already stated clearly that Russia does not care about the "punishment" threats, and will not stop doing what it is doing.


What can U.S. and its NATO allies possibly do that they haven't already done? About the worst thing that comes to mind is kicking Russia out of G8. NATO has been expanding to Georgia and Eastern Europe even before this war - so that's not really punishment. The U.S. treated Russia with hostility throughout the Bush administration - that's nothing new and no punishment either. The ABM is a done deal to - threats are now irrelevent.

Thats it - NATO used up all of its cards. Now it just has empty threats.

Originally posted by maloy
Some of you may remember how Russia stood by when Kosovo became independent several months ago. Many predicted that Russia would pledge military support for their ally Serbia or even assist Serbia in restoring "constitutional order" in Kosovo.

Russia let that one go, but no one had a doubt that Russia was rightfully looking for revenge. This is it. South Ossetia and Abkhazia are independent - and there is absolutely nothing the West can do about that. NATO can withhold their recognition for the trwo repiblics - but to Russia and to the people in the two republics it does not matter.

If U.S. wants to assist Georgia with "holding on" to the breakaway regions - do not expect Russia to move over. All NATO can do now is arm Georgia to the teeth - but it no longer matters. The conflict is done for good.

Actually, Russia is in for a big surprise. We are going to help Georgia. We are going to do it. There is no way we cannot or we look weak. So I guess we are going to have that war. We put a couple of ships in the ports there so they could shoot at them and get this thing started, what's wrong, are they more afraid than we think. Saddam tried to bluff and talk a good talk. Medvedev, Putins sock puppet is doing the same thing. Let's see how far Russia is willing to take this. We cannot fight this war until they fire on us. The next move is up to them. The west is waiting....

I dont know about that. The only reason we (US) sent humanitarian aid via warships is to make sure it went through and was protected and uninterefered with. And so far that has worked. The US even went out of its way to port at another port instead of Poti which Russia is now controlling to keep from aggravating the Russians. Im not so sure the West is "begging to be hit". If so why didnt the 2 US warships roll up in the port of Poti today and see "whats up"? Sounds like they are a bit scared...is that why we changed plans of where to port at the last second? To avoid a confrontation? All evidence points that way.
Look, the US and NATO is walking a fine line.

They are trying to show support and solidarity with Georgia but not do anything overtly to provoke a Russian response (militariliy against NATO). They did this for 45 years during the cold war and are good at it. This thing is not going hot.

Originally posted by Fromabove
Actually, Russia is in for a big surprise. We are going to help Georgia. We are going to do it. There is no way we cannot or we look weak. So I guess we are going to have that war. We put a couple of ships in the ports there so they could shoot at them and get this thing started, what's wrong, are they more afraid than we think. Saddam tried to bluff and talk a good talk. Medvedev, Putins sock puppet is doing the same thing. Let's see how far Russia is willing to take this. We cannot fight this war until they fire on us. The next move is up to them. The west is waiting....

This situation reminds me of the Cuban missile crisis. Khrushchev banked on the US not making a move when they installed the missiles in Cuba. Of course, when Kennedy challenged him, he was backed into a corner, and the world came very close to total nuclear war. At the last minute, a "save face" solution was proffered that both the US and the USSR could accept. However, Castro pressed Khrushchev to launch a pre-emptive strike against the US. Finally, a second solution was agreed upon, whereby the US agreed to take their missiles out of Turkey in exchange for the removal of the Cuban missiles.
Is there a Solomon among us that can extricate both Russia and the West without losing face, or is this destined to develop into a VERY hot war?

Originally posted by Fromabove
Actually, Russia is in for a big surprise. We are going to help Georgia.

How is that a surprise? U.S. has been helping Georgia for the last 4 years - which enabled Georgia to embark on this war. If that's your big surpirse, than U.S. will leave Russia overly unimpressed.

Originally posted by Fromabove
There is no way we cannot or we look weak.

Can't have that now. U.S. gotta make the world fear it - how else are your going to spread democracy in the form of precise munitions.

Originally posted by Fromabove
So I guess we are going to have that war.

What war? Doesn't U.S. already have a war - make that two wars? Sorry to break it to the militaristic bunch - but U.S. will not engage Russia. U

Originally posted by Fromabove
We put a couple of ships in the ports there so they could shoot at them and get this thing started

So you are saying U.S. is a provocateur - willing to endanger the lives of hundreds of its military personel in order to start a war that will endanger the lives of hundreds of thousands of its military personel.

Maybe you should just send in Bush to poke Medvedev or Putin in the nose personally to see how they will respond. It'll save the military personel's lives and save the world aggravation.

Originally posted by Fromabove
what's wrong, are they more afraid than we think.

Afraid of what? Mutual destruction? Surely no more afraid than U.S. is afraid of the very same thing.

Originally posted by Fromabove
Saddam tried to bluff and talk a good talk.

What does Saddam and his personal affair with the Bush family have to do with this? Why not bring Ho Chi Mihn, or Pol Pot, or the Ayatollahs, or Nasrallah, or Hitler himself into the discussion. How many evil people can you think of?

Originally posted by Fromabove
Medvedev, Putins sock puppet is doing the same thing.

What thing would that be? The same thing U.S. is doing? Bluffing, talking the good talk, waving his military capabilities around? Wow he really is trying to be just like the U.S.

Originally posted by Fromabove
Let's see how far Russia is willing to take this.

Where else would it need to take this? S Ossetia and Abkhazia are independent - Russia got what it wanted. The conflict is over. Now it is time for big parade of might from both sides. Very impressive, but highly useless.

Originally posted by Fromabove
We cannot fight this war until they fire on us.

Oh thank God. And I though U.S. is free to stage preemptive strikes around the Globe at its will.

Originally posted by Fromabove
The next move is up to them. The west is waiting.....

Hasn't the West got more important things to do? Like U.S. finishing the two wars it already started? Or fixing its economy? Or fixing its world image? Or staying glued to the tv to see what Britney Spears is doing?

Originally posted by princeofpeace
If so why didnt the 2 US warships roll up in the port of Poti today and see "whats up"? Sounds like they are a bit scared...is that why we changed plans of where to port at the last second?

More likely is that U.S. doesn't want Russians to know what cargo they are bringing in. Russia has military check-points set up throughtout the Poti port. They would know what U.S. is bringing into Georgia.

When they were headed out to Poti they likely though Russia would withdraw by the time they get there. That hasn't happened. They just want to keep their business with the Georgians private.

With China's new underwater nuclear base complete with at least 4 new subs, I'd be careful here not to get tricked. And that photo of the two leaders is spooky indeed. Be careful America... China and Russia are in the top 3 of superpowers; and they would love to divide up this land... get the Arab States to join in and give them a piece. Japan will be happy with Hawaii and we better keep our military strong. Chavez was just in Russia as well and remember what he asked the new president to do... to aline against the US. North Korea and Iran like us too so I'm sure they'll get involved for the fall of America. When Rome ruled Egypt, the king got liberal and decided to leave everyone alone, while they/ the Arabs snuck in and destroyed a society... 2000 years ago. Give them the opportunity to do it again and they surely will. We must police the world or we will cease to exist... it's the unfortunate side of human behavior... survival of the fittest at all costs; and if they want what you have or disaprove of, they will come to occupie... JOHN MCCAIN FOR PRESIDENT becasue Obama is going to get us all killed by simply leaving Iran alone... not to mention 20 other nations that will do the same to us if given the chance. God help us all... this can't be good!

Need everything be turned into the U.S. election campaign?

Politicians waving their hands around and acting stereotypically is what got this mess rolling. Now you want them to take this isolated conflict and make a whole bunch of hoopla out of nothing? Isn't everyone tired of that yet?

Wow..I knew I wasn't crazy when I said people have a bad impression of the U.S. This really sucks.. We are going to have a draft again.. There is no way we can do another war right now. We don't have the funds or the men. I have so much faith in American people, its the administration I don't trust. I hope everything works in the best interest of all parties involved.

[edit on 27-8-2008 by KaginD]

I know I added my opinion in another thread about this situation ..but now it is like thousands of pages long lol ...so I guess no one will see it ..


My 2 cents .

There are actually 4 world powers in our world right now .

The EU
The UN
The Arab League
And the Asian Countrys

At some point they will have to merge as one ..
How is that supposed to happen if most of these countrys wants to be THE ONE who rules ........if not by wars
And I think this war is about to get the whole ball rolling towards the One World Gov.Stay tuned ...bet it heats up big time ..............

So who do you think is gonna win ?


My guess is prob ....the UN ...


[edit on 27-8-2008 by Simplynoone]

I really don't get what's going on. Why does the West care about Abkhazia? South Ossetia?

I realize there's a major oil pipeline going through Georgia, and that the West is scared that Russia might takeover Georgia and control the pipeline. But why can't the West just put a massive military base there? How would controlling South Ossetia and Abkhazia give the Russians much more of an advantage?

Am I the only one, or have other people noticed that a country being a "democracy" is ok with the Western Governments, so long as they do what the western governments want?

For example, Venezuela was a democratic country. They DEMOCRATICALLY elected a socialist into office. Ergo, they (the populace of Venezuela) wanted a more socialist government. Now, that country is on our (blank) list. Same with Iran back in 56 or so. Now, this with Russia/Georgia/Ossetia

Seems like democracy is fine, so long as it is the democracy demanded by Washington. (D.C., that is.)

So if we put missiles in Ossetia like they want to put in Cuba, it's war.

When nations behave like children we can expect to see blood upon the playground!

Originally posted by Fromabove

Originally posted by maloy
Some of you may remember how Russia stood by when Kosovo became independent several months ago. Many predicted that Russia would pledge military support for their ally Serbia or even assist Serbia in restoring "constitutional order" in Kosovo.

Russia let that one go, but no one had a doubt that Russia was rightfully looking for revenge. This is it. South Ossetia and Abkhazia are independent - and there is absolutely nothing the West can do about that. NATO can withhold their recognition for the trwo repiblics - but to Russia and to the people in the two republics it does not matter.

If U.S. wants to assist Georgia with "holding on" to the breakaway regions - do not expect Russia to move over. All NATO can do now is arm Georgia to the teeth - but it no longer matters. The conflict is done for good.

Actually, Russia is in for a big surprise. We are going to help Georgia. We are going to do it. There is no way we cannot or we look weak. So I guess we are going to have that war. We put a couple of ships in the ports there so they could shoot at them and get this thing started, what's wrong, are they more afraid than we think. Saddam tried to bluff and talk a good talk. Medvedev, Putins sock puppet is doing the same thing. Let's see how far Russia is willing to take this. We cannot fight this war until they fire on us. The next move is up to them. The west is waiting....

I agree.Bullying is not diplomacy.Putin is bluffing and the West will call his bluff.As a democracy we cannot initiate action.We are waiting ....

Originally posted by sir_chancealot
Am I the only one, or have other people noticed that a country being a "democracy" is ok with the Western Governments, so long as they do what the western governments want?

For example, Venezuela was a democratic country. They DEMOCRATICALLY elected a socialist into office. Ergo, they (the populace of Venezuela) wanted a more socialist government. Now, that country is on our (blank) list. Same with Iran back in 56 or so. Now, this with Russia/Georgia/Ossetia

Seems like democracy is fine, so long as it is the democracy demanded by Washington. (D.C., that is.)

Not only that.Venezela is spending on weapons.Thats not good for a socialist country as their economy will collapse if it hasnt already.Chavez is paranoid of a US invasion.These conspiracies are not a good thing for Chavez.LOL!