Looking at the picture above, it does look like if this happened on the EAST side of the building, the sidewalk IS owned by the hotel!

Is the sidewalk on the EAST side of the hotel owned by the hotel OR is it a public sidewalk?

Kinda looks to me, from the picture that the hotel DOES own the sidewalk on THAT side of the building anyway.

But, if the incident happened on another side of the building, it definitely looks like it would have taken place on public sidewalks

If that guy that had his teeth broken out doesn't sue the life out of those cops,he should have his head examined for real damage.This kind of abuse has to be stopped.I plan on taking my video camera with me all the time,just in case I can catch some cop b.s.

reply to post by Keyhole

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I'd be pretty surprised if that were the case.

Could you imagine the exposure to slip and fall cases during the Winter?

No. I think you'll find the city repairs that sidewalk.

Moreover, looking at burdman30ott6's link, the sidewalk clearly falls outside the parcel line.



[edit on 27-8-2008 by loam]

I'm sorry I read this since my blood pressure probably shot up 10 points. I hope ABC finds the most vicious bull dog lawyer and sues the crap out of the Denver police department and the hotel.

I also hope this get's some prominent coverage on ABC. However what are the odds that someone will call the producer and from somewhere in the shadow government and crush the story before it starts. If they don't cover this, then you know that America has become a police state.

Also it would appear that it's just business as usual for the Democrats. Control of the country goes to the highest bidder.

[edit on 27-8-2008 by SevenThunders]

reply to post by loam

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I thought it would be unusual for the city NOT to own the sidewalk, but looking at the bottom of the triangle is where it appeared to me that the hotel just might have owned the sidewalk.



Even if the hotel does own the sidewalk, that doesn't mean that the officers shouldn't be reprimanded for his actions.

Two points:


1.) Are Denver police allowed to smoke while on duty? Considering the liability issues that might arise should a smoking officer "accidentally" burn a civilian in an encounter, I would think such behavior would be grounds for disciplinary action.

And think of all the people with allergies and acute asthma who could be seriously imperiled by a smoking cop!

If the cop was not on duty at the time of this incident, are off-duty Denver police allowed to wear their official Denver PD uniforms while working as "private security"?



Point Two:


ABCNews is an affiliate of the American Broadcasting Company, which is currently owned by the Disney Corporation.

If ABCNews decides to raise a stink about this incident, there are several Denver police officers who are going to learn, first-hand, that you


NEVER! Mess With the House of The Mouse!

the average american WANTS to put there head in the sand and i DON'T look down on them for doing that, that was me a couple years ago and is an easier way to cope, and everyone that manipulates and has a "criminal mind" KNOWS this.....so long as they keep the rising economic and mental pain/anguish to a slower boil or let the pain rise but keep us confused as to what the heck should we be mad about.

reply to post by Keyhole

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That's the triangulation point issue I talked about in my first post on this. It is an old hold over from the days when all drafting was done by hand, all calcs done using a slide rule, and all surveying done with basic theodolites, hand levels, and a surbeyor's rod. It was far, far simpler in those days to just lay down a triangulation point on a bench mark monument in the center of an intersection and run property boundary lines off that point than it was to calculate curved parcel boundary lines. In reality, a good rule of thumb is that if the sidewalk was constructed with tax payer dollars and is maintained by the tax payers, even if it may fall on a small section of private land, it is a public facillity and cannot be controlled by the land owner.

I'm going to make an attempt to find some further documentation using a few outlets I know should have plans & as builts information. If these are stored online (and most major cities have digitized these type of documents in the past 5 years or so) then I'll be able to say without any doubt exactly where the private property begins & the public land ends. I'll update later tonight on what I find, hopefully with graphics.

That's pretty funny.



Wait until Obama and crew get to play with all of the shiny new toys Bush & Co. left him.

The NIGHTMARE gets worse.

Hmmm. I thought the opposite-- at least with respect to urban centers.



Out of curiosity, I wonder what additional regulatory and control issues come into play, considering the hotel has a historic designation?

reply to post by burdman30ott6

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You know something burd...Im proud of you man. You have really changed since first coming on this site being a hard right pro American government is always right and if you question you were unpatriotic kind of guy. You were that way but I feel you are now waking up. Slowly but surely as I watch your posts. Im not being negative I was the same way till ATS woke me up. Good research and yes the police state does exist and this story makes me want to pull my hair out.

I'm not defending the police but we are not getting the whole story. There must be more to this.

Disorderly conduct is often used by the poice as a "catch all"

I wouldn't be surprised if the charges are dropped.

HEre are 2 similar stories from 2007

One is a NY Daily phtotgrapher
carlosmiller.com...

and a local reporter for a TV station
www.local10.com...

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I went to Google Earth to see if they had a better picture of the Brown Palace Hotel.

They did!

They had a very clear picture of exactly where the sidewalks were. On that East side of the building are the widest sidewalks that surround the hotel.

It seems they are clearly outside of the triangle of the property line in burdman's post.

[edit on 8/27/2008 by Keyhole]

reply to post by DimensionalDetective

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Hmm.. secret business meeting between "donors" and senators and a posse of cops rough up the reporters ........


Can you say Corruption?

First, I'm as appalled as anyone here by the arrest and abuse of this reporter. Those cops need to face charges and pay a huge price in a civil suit.

People don't "let this happen". These incidents are in fact very rare. I have never seen a Cop do the things I see on some of these video's. I have drunks on the street in front of my office and have seen them dealt with and arrested many dozens of times. Not once did I see any abuse by an Officer in fact they go out of their way to not even touch them and try and calm them down.

The problem here at ATS is we only see the worst of the worst and it can give the impression that is how it is in the US. It is not. As horrible as these events are and as sick as these cops in these videos are, we who live here and are sensible know that these things are so rare most of us are unlikely to see it in our lives.

I was arrested a couple of times in my youth and I did see others manhandled by the Cops, but every time it was the persons fault for fighting them. My only thought was, what kind of idiot fights back with a Cop while being arrested?

I've also been a passenger in a car a couple of times when the driver was arrested. Both times the driver was visibly drunk or high and screamed obscenities at the officers and tried to fight them. Afterward the Cops were very polite to me as they explained I would have to find my own ride home. The driver deserved what happened.

I know these cases are different from what is on this thread, but like I said these things are rare.

We don't do anything about it because there is nothing to do anything about. Most Cops just do their jobs and the only people they even interact with are criminals.

There are many here on ATS who blow this completely out of proportion. I often wonder if it could be they have had such bad experiences due to their own behavior and are just having a tantrum because guilty people can't fight back. When you see someone posting about all their arrests, you can be sure they deserved at least some of them.

For a normal law abiding person like I have been since I quit drugs 25 years ago, we never interact with Police. They never bother us, pull us over or even give a second glance. To know the truth, you have to know the truth about the story teller.

Many of these videos are little bits of what happened and there is no way to know what happened leading up to what is on tape. For all we know the person being worked over may have just kicked a cop in the balls, spit in their face or tried to get them with a weapon. I say this because I have seen that happen.

I think some of our foreign Friends have it in for the US is why they criticize so much even though their countries may be far more repressive than the US. They use these rare little snippets to try and paint a picture that it is the norm; when in fact, you could go through your entire life and never have a bad experience with a Cop.

Bottom line is, there are good cops and bad cops, just as there are good citizens and bad citizens. The bad ones need taken off the street and the good ones don't deserve the crap they get. Also, people who are paranoid of cops are often paranoid for good reason. They know they do things that if they are caught they will be arrested, so they demonize all cops. And of course they are always innocent and they did not mean to do anything In their eyes it is of course their Constitutional right to buy crack from that guy with the gang tattoos who brags about how many he has killed, drive down the road the road weaving between lanes running people of the road or did not mean to hit that little guy in the face busting his mouth open because well, he just deserved it.

I think that denying ignorance includes not exaggerating, blowing out of proportion or flat out lying about what is going on. The only people who see violence on a regular basis are criminals, thugs, drug dealers, pimps, sociopaths and people who watch too much TV. What happened on this tape is terrible and wrong but it does not mean all cops are bad or that all people arrested are innocent. To think so is to embrace ignorance.

I'm done. Sorry for the rant.

reply to post by Blaine91555

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I tend to agree with you. I come from a long line of police officers, my uncle was the colonel of the KCPD, he is now a US marshall, and believe me, he is a well loved and respected man. I myself have never seen harsh treatment from a police officer. I have also been arrested a few times in my youth and never once was I treated wrong. That being said; I love how this has turned into a politcal thing. Really, let's see how many people are arrested and man handled at the Republican convention. Geez guys think please! This is a police brutality thing, not a political thing.

Also from your source:

Actually, no it's not. By law, sidewalks belong to the City, managed & regulated under the Streets & Roads Department...PUBLIC PROPERTY. Yes, I understood the sarcasm in your question, but thought I'd inject the law here. The question fairly screamed for the point to be made. You'd think that the sheriff's officer would be required to have a bit more knowledge in the law he's sworn to uphold.


The 1st Amendment & investigative reporting at its best...Tyrannical Police State nearly at its worst. I don't need to go any further on that point.

Also from your source:

Oooo! Wrongfully issuing threats of physical violence too...Another charge to add to wrongful arrest! I'll be ABC's lawyers will have a field day with this one!...And I really hope they do!


Yep...Basic classes in Business Law also make a point about "right of access" for those people/businesses that happen to have their own parcel totally surrounded by another owner's property...In short, the owner of the larger parcel cannot legally deny access to the smaller property that's engulfed by the larger.

But since sidewalks are legally designated as public property, the right of access doesn't even need to be addressed. It's also been established (in court) that, once anyone comes out onto public property, they become fair game for the press anyway.

BTW burdman...Why not copy/send your info to ABC? That kind of info will come in handy for their lawyers!


They may have to wait until after the trial before ABC can broadcast it publicly...The defense attorney could claim that broadcasting before the trial would bias the general public in the producer's favor & make jury-selection impossible. But once the trial's over, the kid gloves can come off & ABC will have some juicy "trial updates" to add to the initial incident...Which will boost their ratings & get them more funding. This would turn the whole incident into a producer's wet dream!



Well, part of that could be because those people need to complain about something & speaking out against their own repressive government may be more likely to earn them a bullet to the head, so they complain about how repressive the US is getting instead...

[edit on 27-8-2008 by MidnightDStroyer]

Hmm... Seems as though the folks who justify every action done by bad cops either are too afriad of proving they're full of crap, or they've gone to bed.

Can someone please post a mirror or youtube of the video?
It's either been taken down off the site, or something cause I can't see it, I click on the link in the article, I get nothing, no popup, nothing.

-Jimmy