Your opinion - was it Bill that cost Hilary the nomination?

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posted on Aug, 26 2008 @ 01:31 PM
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What was it in your opinion that really cost Hilary the nomination for Democratic candidate? Some will say they never trusted the Clintons and never will while others love everything Hilary stands for. It seemed like her campaign was going well until her husband started making public appearances and speeches. And I'm not quoting from sources this time, or referencing YouTube videos, this is just all from my collective memory.

I'm wondering what was it in everyone else's opinion that seemed to really do her in?




posted on Aug, 26 2008 @ 04:00 PM
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In my opinion only her campaign can be blamed for the loss of the nomination. There are disrguntled Hill supporters who want put blame on other people but thats not why she lost.

Hillary started out with more name recognition, money, she already had a voter bases and she had connections to Washington DC. Whats more if anything Bill was much more of an asset than a liability because he was a great president. I mean for goodness sakes the women was already assumed to take the nomination before Barack Obama started gaining votes.

Her campaign can only be to blame.



posted on Aug, 26 2008 @ 04:46 PM
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I agree. Hillary is to blame. She played right into Obama's hand.

She just took it for granted that she would be the one.

Now she is sour grapes because she isn't the one.


I want to edit this to say this

Although it was Hillary fault I want to give Obama his dues.

The man simply outfoxed, outwitted, outplayed, and outlasted her.

[edit on 26-8-2008 by jam321]



posted on Aug, 26 2008 @ 04:55 PM
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I have to go with the previous replies on this: it was her own fault. I've always liked Bill and thought Hillary was pretty cool being such an active first lady. But the more she spoke the less I liked her.

In my opinion, this was hers and hers alone.



posted on Aug, 26 2008 @ 04:59 PM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.


In all honesty, her campaign dropped the ball several times. She was a lightning rod, no doubt about that, but she had been able to overcome most obstacles placed in her way.

That said, I would have to agree that Bill was more of a help than a hinderance. The nomination was practically her's for the taking. Long story short, she screwed up.



As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Aug, 26 2008 @ 05:17 PM
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I agree. Hillary and her campaign are to blame for her loss. But, by the same token, Barack's win is his credit. In a competition like this, there has to be a winner and a loser. Obama won because he did a better job.



posted on Aug, 26 2008 @ 05:58 PM
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The more she opened her mouth the more I disliked her.

Plus she was already the First Lady and pretty much just sat there and didn't do anything she said she was going to do. Then come this election she talks about her 'experience'; sorry Hillary but I don't count "I am going to reform health care, oops, nevermind!" as experience.



posted on Aug, 26 2008 @ 06:02 PM
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Yes, but not in the way that most people think. I believe that it was more just 'Clinton fatigue' than anything else. We've had 20 years worth of Bush and Clinton. I think another 4-8 was a little more than some people could stomach. In that respect, I think that it was ultimately Bill's presidency, even though he was fairly popular, that ended up hurting Hillary more than anything else that either of them said or did during this campaign season.

[edit on 26-8-2008 by vor78]



posted on Aug, 26 2008 @ 06:13 PM
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I like to give credit where credit is due.

I think she lost the nomination because too many people dislike her all on her own. She didn't need Bill poisoning the well, although it probably didn't help.



posted on Aug, 26 2008 @ 06:38 PM
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I agree with everyone's posts up until mine, but I think you all have left out a glaringly obvious thing that lead to her downfall besides her and her campaign and that is...

The media jumped onto the Barrack Obama bandwagon big time...as did all the high powered Democrats and Democrat-friendly organizations...she got hardly ANY endorsements compared to Barrack. The Kennedys snubbed her, just about everyone but N.O.W snubbed her as well. Celebrities endorsed Barrack in droves, including Oprah, if you remember who came out in South Carolina for Barrack...also...the media didn't play anything negative about Barrack until right before the Ohio/Texas primary vote and Hillary started winning delegates when they started actually reporting news...if they had started reporting about the negative Barrack stories from the beginning I think she would have won, just my two cents...that and her totally inept and botched campaign. Her and Bill thought they had it in the bag I am sure.



posted on Aug, 26 2008 @ 07:17 PM
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I think a combination of things cost Hillary her campaign.


For one, not seating all delegates in Florida and Michigan.

Yes..... people are going to say she would have lost anyway, but i believe being fully seated she would have been a bit more popular. If so much time wasn't wasted on resolving the issue, I think time would have been better spent on Hillary camps side.


We also have the lie she made about coming under sniper fire. I personally don't think its a big deal, especially since there's a LOT worse you can lie about as a politician. People tend to nit-pick stupid lies over really credible ones.

e.g. Obama saying he doesn't have lobbyist or receives money from oil companies.


Her loss was also a byproduct of Obama's negative campaign against her. I do believe democrats are full of cow dung when they say McCain bases his campaign off negativity, if it weren't for negativity Obama wouldn't be in the picture anymore and Hillary would be very close to winning the presidency.


We also have media favoritism and that's a WHOLE can of worms.


Too many factors, but in the end it all boils down to Hillary being cheated.



posted on Aug, 26 2008 @ 07:27 PM
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Hillary's "campaign" was so disorganized throughout the entire primary process that it's a shock she was able to carry so many states.

People like Mark Penn and Patti Solis-Doyle apparently did absolutely nothing but hinder the campaign, and neither understood how the nominating process even worked.

Bill Clinton's insistence that he campaign in South Carolina backfired so badly that it could have very well cost Hillary the nomination. It certainly cost her much of the black vote, and that is no fault of Obama's.

People like Terry McCauliffe - People who knew how to win campaigns - were shoved aside in favor of what Bill and Mark Penn wanted, which is why she lost so badly.

There is an EXCELLENT article on Politco about the primary process and why she lost. If Obama's campaign was a well oiled machine, Hillary's was the rusty engine that hasn't seen action in 20 years.

It's rather long and you can read it here:
www.politico.com...



posted on Aug, 26 2008 @ 07:41 PM
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reply to post by sos37
 


I would like to answer your question with another question. Do you think that Hillary would've gotten the publicity she did if it wasn't for Bill?

I'd hate to put it out there, but given the question presented here, it seems to me that alot of people have taken into consideration Hillary's motives for 'standing by her man'. Do you think that in this day an age she set a good example for girls being cheated on by their men? Maybe she had something to gain from it, and I believe her political career is what flourished the most.

In all honesty, I would've gone the Clinton route this election as I did like the way things ran under HIM.

So just to reiterate, I do not think that Bill cost her the nomination, in retrospect I believe she was almost nominated because the belief that the country would've been in Clinton's hands again, and not necessarily hers.



posted on Aug, 26 2008 @ 07:55 PM
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Having been divorced twice and enjoying the lack of an annoying other conscience; the flash back between her and Obama seemed more like a typical fighting couple.

Hillary seemed to me to want to be on top rather than a VP or as another presidents wife. I could just see some Mad TV parody showing Bill shinning Baracks shoes and Hillary doing laundry. (as if)

Hillary stands a better chance in the next round than sitting on the bench in the white house. I think she can do more for this country where she is now, if she really wants to, regardless, who is president.

People want change even if it's through some new face and a different color. But, politics as usual, have many of us doubting there will be much change.....left for tolls.

I would like to see some strong independent party stand out this time to make things more interesting. Who could we write in?

As for BIll, it did seem as if he saw what was happening and desperately tried to salvage her campaign. If he hadn't, I doubt it would have mattered.

But, it did show that he wanted this for his wife as a husband trading places. He deserves that much credit just for being a good friend and husband.

People want to believe we're now finally going forward even though Russia and other countries aren't. So much for human evolution.

[edit on 26-8-2008 by aleon1018]



posted on Aug, 26 2008 @ 09:32 PM
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The only thing that matters in the US election is money, and Obama had a lot more of it.



posted on Aug, 26 2008 @ 09:34 PM
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Funny you should say that. I've been thinking the same for awhile. But her schoolmarm dribble was getting on my last nerve. She really needed better advisors....and I just don't know where Bill went mentally. He definitely was NOT helping.

[edit on 8/26/2008 by jpm1602]

[edit on 8/26/2008 by jpm1602]



posted on Aug, 26 2008 @ 09:46 PM
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Arrogance, arrogance, arrogance. She acts like she is the queen, and a significant number of Americans dislike that. Bill acting like the king did not help, but she sunk her own chances, IMO.

BTW, this may be Obama's fatal flaw as well, and Biden will certainly do nothing to help in that regard. There is a lot of time yet for them to blow it.



posted on Aug, 26 2008 @ 09:55 PM
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It got to the point for me...that I just could not stand to hear her voice anymore. Like nails on a chalkboard.





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