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Russia ready for 'anything': Medvedev

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posted on Aug, 27 2008 @ 04:52 PM
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Originally posted by ArMaP

Originally posted by centurion1211
Fact: the U.S. has given more aid to more people in more countries than the rest of the world has combined.


From NationMaster

Donor (most recent) by country

#1 United Kingdom: $10,700,000,000.00
#2 France: $10,100,000,000.00
#3 Japan: $8,900,000,000.00
#4 United States: $6,900,000,000.00


Does not include military aid.


Good job cherry picking just one year's data.

However, what I was referring to was over time as in the last 60 years.

Here's some data for just part of that time period:

actual data

And to further refute your "numbers", take a look at the graph for just 2004 on page CRS 5. This is showing non-military aid. Before you try to bring up the next graph showing Norway with the highest per capita rate, notice that in actual dollars (which is what really helps the needy), Norway's $2.2 billion is nowhere close to the $19 billion given by the U.S.

Last, this thread is about Russia. Where, oh where, is Russia even in your flawed data? Answer: somewhere off the bottom of the chart - below even Iceland
.



[edit on 8/27/2008 by centurion1211]




posted on Aug, 27 2008 @ 04:56 PM
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Originally posted by pexx421
thank you armap, i noticed that centurion just likes to throw blanket statements around, and that much of his comments are just hyperbole.




As opposed to the "facts" you present? Where's your data to back them up? I've only seen hearsay and name calling in what you've presented.

We're waiting ...




posted on Aug, 27 2008 @ 06:32 PM
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posted on Aug, 27 2008 @ 06:45 PM
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Originally posted by centurion1211
Good job cherry picking just one year's data.
Was not cherry picked, it was the data available on that site, the one I knew has this kind of statistics.


However, what I was referring to was over time as in the last 60 years.
You are right, you said "has given", not "gives". Unfortunately, I don't have any statistics from other years, I only remembered that I had seen in other occasions (in different years) that the US was not the first on that list I posted.


And to further refute your "numbers", take a look at the graph for just 2004 on page CRS 5.
They are not my numbers, with or without quotes, I only provided the link for the data, I did not create it. You can see on the page for that data, at the bottom of the page, from where the numbers came. I include also the definition.


DEFINITION: The net official development assistance (ODA) from Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) nations to developing countries and multilateral organizations. ODA is defined as financial assistance that is concessional in character, has the main objective to promote economic development and welfare of the less developed countries (LDCs), and contains a grant element of at least 25%. The entry does not cover other official flows (OOF) or private flows.

SOURCE: CIA World Factbook, 14 June, 2007



Before you try to bring up the next graph showing Norway with the highest per capita rate, notice that in actual dollars (which is what really helps the needy), Norway's $2.2 billion is nowhere close to the $19 billion given by the U.S.
I was not going to show it because it has nothing to do with what you said, you said it specifically .
"And don't give us any of this crap about other (smaller) countries giving more aid "per capita" than the U.S.."
So I did not gave you per capita values in that post, although there is also a page for that, so why should I posted it now?


Last, this thread is about Russia. Where, oh where, is Russia even in your flawed data? Answer: somewhere off the bottom of the chart - below even Iceland
.
No, in this data Russia does not appear because, as you can read in the link I posted and in the PDF you posted, this data is relative only to OECD countries, and Russia is not a member of the OECD.


PS: it is interesting (I remember not to say "funny"
) that what should be the same values show so many differences.

 
Edit:

I went to the CIA World Factbook site (the one that is presented as the source for the data I posted) and the values are not the same.
These are the values gathered from the CIA World Factbook site:


US - $23.53 billion (2006)
UK - $12.46 billion (2006)
Japan - $11.19 billion (2006)
Germany - $10.44 billion (2006)
France - $10.6 billion (2006)


Judging by these values it becomes even more strange the data on the NationMaster site.

Sorry for the confusion, it was not on purpose.


[edit on 27/8/2008 by ArMaP]



posted on Aug, 27 2008 @ 06:57 PM
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Is it me or do some parts of the world think America and Europe is weak right now and with American forces dealing with Iraq and Afghanistan they think 'Lets kick them when they are down,' 'lets show what happens when bigbrother is not watching', we'll attack and make threats. That is what it seems like from Iran and Russia, I am so glad they get along, its very prophetic.

Eziekiel 38 and all.



posted on Aug, 27 2008 @ 09:49 PM
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Short of a nuc war (wich will never happen ) there scared straight ,cause we can pretty much do what ever we want ,wenever we want ! really ,even tho we are down on personal (and what people think ? equipment ) It's well thought out ,and there is no problem ..Russia will not destroy the planet ,and we won't either .But we will show- them, at all times ,that we are the boss ,and every nation out there ! It's the way it will be no matter what prez. we have .



posted on Aug, 27 2008 @ 10:10 PM
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reply to post by centurion1211
 


The people of America need to open there eyes, the truth is out there! Whether you want to believe it or not. It’s up to you
All over the world Mainstream media is cleverly manipulating the masses whether you want to believe it or not. It’s up to you
Governments orchestrating so called peacekeeping scenarios all over the world whether you want to believe it or not. It’s up to you
Thousands of INNOCENT civilians are dying, infant’s brothers & sisters mothers & fathers ALLFOR WHAT.! PEACE!
America’s actions are louder than her words BLACK WIDOW
History is being repeated right in front of our eye
Remember THE PAST DETERMINES THE FUTURE.


JJ STEAL.



posted on Aug, 27 2008 @ 11:14 PM
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Russians adore Vladimir Putin for restoring some semblance of National pride after the humiliating years in the aftermath of the Soviet Union collapse.

Can you imagine Red Joe Public standing in line for a loaf of bread ,with the statues of a past Empire staring down at him .

I imagine there will be much locking of horn , testing strengths and looking for weaknesses , hopefully at worst, by proxy. If we can whether that sh*t -storm a new equilibrium will settle in.

My greatest fear is that the rules of this new "International Game " will be the Bush Administration / 8 season handbook.
There have been some very dangerous precedents set this past decade.

This ain`t no Gentle Ben either




posted on Aug, 27 2008 @ 11:53 PM
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and here is another example of centurions flawed statements. First off, his original statement that the US gives "more aid than all other countries combined" is obviously FAR from the truth. And then there is the fact that my question was about what good our GOVERNMENT has done, and his graphs include private donations etc, and as i pointed out, our CITIZENS are quite generous...it is our GOVERNMENT that is lacking in humanitarian accomplishments.



posted on Aug, 27 2008 @ 11:58 PM
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as for my facts....come on. Are you completely uneducated about el salvador, Columbia, Panama, Vietnam, Cuba, Iraq, and all the other countries that weve been involved in installing dictators, oppressing the populist uprisings, and stealing their natural resources? Do i really need to find you evidence of the 500000 philipino's we killed, the 2 million vietnamese, the 750000 cambodians and 500000 laosians?? Are you completely unaware of our involvement in elections in venezuela, italy, our involvements in the civil wars of greece, Russia, China, and cuba??? If you arent familiar with each and every one of these things, then you have NO place making any statements of authority about the GOOD america does in the world, as you obviously have no clue about our true history and what drives our policy.



posted on Aug, 28 2008 @ 12:18 AM
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Wonder if perhaps they would be ready for say a 9 magnitude temblor in the heart of Ьщысщцю. Like saying I have built a ship that even God couldn't sink!



posted on Aug, 28 2008 @ 02:57 AM
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reply to post by pexx421
 


What about the "atrocities" the US has intervened in? Care to mention those? Standing up to tyrants, giving aid to Africa, Palestine. Tell me whenever an International crisis happens, who are the first ones providing aid through any means necessary? Some of you either have very short memories or very selective ones, im really bored and quite frankly feel sorry for the hatred you harbour towards the US. Thats right they're not perfect and as Churchill said you sometimes have to get your hands dirty to stand up for the greater good, just a shame some of you cant see through the mistakes and actually analyse and correctly interpret the ultimate intention.

Anyway sorry for going off on a slight tangent there, back to point, it seem's even the Chinese are now distancing themselves from the Russian position.

[edit on 28-8-2008 by theblunttruth]



posted on Aug, 28 2008 @ 07:15 AM
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atrocities the US has intervened in? You mean like Darfur? Rwanda? Palestine? Djibouti? Iraqs kurds? oh wait, our government had nothing to do with helping those people. Why? because they only get involved when they have some financial gain in it. In fact we just make the palestine thing worse, holding israels hand as they commit ethnic cleansing and genocide against the palestinians. So tell me.....what ethnic cleansing and genocides and atrocities HAVE our government intervened in? Ive already stated QUITE a few they have had a HAND in.



posted on Aug, 28 2008 @ 07:17 AM
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such as our installation and propping up of ....Suharto, pinochet, the Shah, Saddam, Pappa Doc and Baby Doc, Trujillo, Batista, the Samozas
There are 25 murderous dictatorships that the US has helped install and supported as they performed torture, rape, ethnic cleansing, and genocide upon their own civilians. Are these the kinds of interventions you were talking about, that we are so great for? Cause your right, there are more of those than anyone else.

[edit on 28-8-2008 by pexx421]



posted on Aug, 28 2008 @ 07:26 AM
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still....i am curious....just what "tyrants" has the US demonstrably stood up to? And please, dont list the obvious fallacies like "saddam", i mean ones that we actually intervened out of altruism, not because it supported our drive for oil and power.



posted on Aug, 28 2008 @ 07:55 AM
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Originally posted by pexx421
atrocities the US has intervened in? You mean like Darfur? Rwanda? Palestine? Djibouti? Iraqs kurds? oh wait, our government had nothing to do with helping those people. Why? because they only get involved when they have some financial gain in it. In fact we just make the palestine thing worse, holding israels hand as they commit ethnic cleansing and genocide against the palestinians. So tell me.....what ethnic cleansing and genocides and atrocities HAVE our government intervened in? Ive already stated QUITE a few they have had a HAND in.


Well for starters, i seem to remember the Us intervening on several occassions in Iraq, short memory much? Regarding Palestine, can you remind me who provides the largest aid there? Without which they would prob starve to death. Same goes with North Korea. Remember the Tsunami, who were the first to provide aid there. What did they have to gain from that? Regarding Darfur and even Zimbabwe for that matter, i seem to remember the US trying diplomatically (if they used force you would be the first to jump on the bandwagon) through the UN to solve the crisis', but wasn't it your Russian and Chinese friends that abstained and did all they could to protect the regimes there?!

You are very mis-guided in your angst my friend!

[edit on 28-8-2008 by theblunttruth]



posted on Aug, 28 2008 @ 08:05 AM
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reply to post by pexx421
 


Like i said the US is not perfect, i've never once stated that, they have made errors and sometimes supported regimes for their own good.

It's people like you that relish a good old debate, which you are gifted the right of under your democracy of which many of your own countrymen lost their lives for INTERVENING for the greater good.

Who's currently propping up Mugabe's bloodshed and protectng and arming the militias in Sudan? I dont hear any condemnation from you on that....in fact judging from your posts you are supporting these countries, you are a hypocrite of the blind kind.

[edit on 28-8-2008 by theblunttruth]

[edit on 28-8-2008 by theblunttruth]



posted on Aug, 28 2008 @ 08:09 AM
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oh come on, we intervened in iraq? like out of the kindness of our hearts? you obviously have no idea of the timeline of events for iraq. We helped saddam get into power in the first place. Then we armed him so he could fight iran for several years. We even gave him those weapons he used against the kurds! THEN we sat by silently as he massacred the kurds with those weapons. We assured saddam while he was fighting iran that we would support his later engagement for taking back kuwait, and THEN after kuwait once more took control of a much contested oil field and iraq invaded them, we decided we didnt need him anymore and went in and decimated his forces.



posted on Aug, 28 2008 @ 08:12 AM
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Lets all just sit back & enjoy the fireworks, it could be the last lot we will ever see. Big ego's coupled with Big money. Two heavyweights trying to out psych each other & flexing their muscles. Im getting my popcorn & a few beers, my moneys on a draw!



posted on Aug, 28 2008 @ 08:31 AM
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and please dont get my started on our hypocritical "AID" to palestine. Without our support, israel would never have been able to ethnically cleanse them the way they are, and every time the UN tries to pass a resolution condemning the Israeli actions there and their disregard for human rights, there are two votes against, Israel and the US, and our veto power is golden. Everyone knows that Israel has americas support and go ahead on palestine, and if YOU dont its because you know nothing about your own administration. Have you ever, EVER heard condi, bush, or cheney criticize Israels treatment of palestine?? And dont give me that north korea line, that was part of our push for hegemony, our cold war by proxy, just like our massacre of the vietnamese....excepting, of course, that Ho Chi Mihn was nothing like Dear leader.
As for the Tsunami, yes, i think we were among the many that sent aid there, though i think the cuban/venezuelan medical group sent more Dr.s and Nurses, and a large amount of our aid was private. Im talking about government here, as we all agree our citizens are often generous.
And the Darfur and Zimbabwe thing just proves my point. When we arent expanding our hegemony, or have nothing to gain monetarily for our corporations, then we use words, but only when its a country we already have plans to attack for gain do we go in with force and then we usually leave the place worse off than when we came in.
And you know why you dont hear my criticism of the other countries? Because i dont pay my taxes to them, supporting their follies, and giving them the ability to rape, murder, and pillage. I DO pay taxes in the US, and like all american taxpayers i am partially responsible for some womans children being killed RIGHT NOW somewhere in the world, i am partly responsible for the prisoners getting raped and beaten in abu graib (and indeed our own prisoners getting raped in our OWN prisons), I am partly responsible for Peoples homes and families and lives being torn apart, all in the name of PROFIT.
Just once, i would like to see our country in a war where we KNEW we were doing the right thing, where we TRULY had no ulterior motive, where our soldiers were not constantly being found raping and murdering innocents. But its not going to happen, because THOSE arent the kinds of wars we fight. But if you need to blind yourself to history in order to be able to lie to yourself and believe the world is good and your country helps make it so, then by all means, ignore our history as the most aggressive and warlike nation currently on the planet, and go on spouting your pro american propaganda, while you still havent showed me a single massacre or atrocity that america put an end to after i showed you many they had a hand in.
So, lets tally it up.......aid in the tsunami....speaking mean to darfur and rwanda....and taking down saddam hussein is what you have on our good side...oh, and the money we give to palestine as we help our friends murder them with weapons we made.
And on our bad side we have.....40million native americans dead, 2 mil vietnamese, 500000 philipinos, 500000 in laos, 750000 cambodians, 1.2 mil iraqi's, 200000 japanese women and children, untold numbers of mexicans, cubans, koreans, we have 25 dictatorships put into power and supported through their reigns of terror and oppression, we have 20 coups staged in countries around the world...we can stop there......yeah, seems real balanced, God Bless the USA!!



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