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Why Muslims often complain of the popular

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posted on Aug, 26 2008 @ 06:45 AM
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Pro-genetic on August 24 posted a topic with tjis title:

"Muslims often complain of the popular "misconceptions",

I tried to post a reply, but I couldnt's for some technical reason, so I want to post my reply to him, hoping that he will read it.


You said :


T(In truth, the Qur’an not only calls Muslims to submit to Allah, it also commands them to subdue people of other religions until they are in a full state of submission to Islamic rule. This has inspired the aggressive history of Islam and its success in conquering other cultures.)
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It's not true, Quran calls Muslims to offer other religions followers to follow Islam, if they refused, they should pay (Jiziah) or tax for protection, if their country is under the occupation of Muslims, but Muslims can't force anyone to be Muslim. These were the rules at the time of Muslim conquest of the world inorder to spread the word of Islam at its beginning. If Islam had aggressive history, what do you call the Crusades, a peaceful christain movement??!! Do you know that Christian knights killed more Christians than muslims and jews on their way to occupy Jerusalem in the crusades time.

you said


(In fact, Sura 37:22-23 implies that women will be punished on Judgment Day for sins committed by their husbands)
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This is a big lie, on the contrary, Quran says that every soul,female or male, will be judged by Allah, separately, without any link between different people sins. There is a verse that says: every soul is responsible of its sins.





(There is no ambiguity in the Qur’an, the life of Muhammad, or Islamic law as to the inferiority of women to men, despite the efforts of modern-day apologists to salvage Western-style feminism from scraps and fragments of verses that have historically held no such progressive interpretation. There is no ambiguity in the Qur’an, the life of Muhammad, or Islamic law as to the inferiority of women to men, despite the efforts of modern-day apologists to salvage Western-style feminism from scraps and fragments of verses that have historically held no such progressive interpretation.
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This is a big delusion, first of all, Islam is the only religion in the world that tried to give women their rights, read the bible and torah, both of them portray women as whores , seduction objects and evil, I dare you to bring one verse from bible or torah that portrays women as equal to men or as good spirits, or one verse that talks about women rights, on the contrary , Quran has a hole chapter which contains more that 100 verse, talking about the details of women rights, at a time when the whole world was considering women as objects of sex and evil, and burned them alive as Europeans and Americans did until recent times.

Muhammed encouraged Muslim men to marry female slaves of war instead of raping them, as Russian and Serb soldiers did in Chechnia and Bosnia in the late of 20th century. Rape is forbidden in Islam for muslim or foreign women, muslim rapist must be punished according to Sharia. In addition he ordered muslims in their first Jihad war to protect enemy's children, women, elders, he even gave orders to protect their animals , trees and worshipping temples..

Please , don't tell me that westerners hug and kiss muslims or others when they occupy their countries, I can remind you of Abu-Ghrieb scandal in Iraq and what American civilized soldiers (even females) did to Iraqi prisoners of war, or do you want me to remind you of the crusades and the crimes of European christian soldiers in the holy land, even muslim children and women who were hiding in churches and mosques were slaughtered and raped by brave Christian knights. Or do you want me to remind of jewish (victims of holocaust) crimes in Palestine for the last 50 years.




posted on Aug, 26 2008 @ 06:50 AM
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(The Qur’an gives Muslim men permission to beat their wives for disobedience. It plainly says that husbands are “a degree above” wives. The Hadith says that women are intellectually inferior, and that they comprise the majority of Hell’s occupants. )
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I used to hear in American films specially in the marriage ceremony scenes, the bride saying, that she will obey her husband till her death and she will serve if he's sick or ok, only in recent time films the vows were changed. The old vows were taken from the Bible and Torah, all religions consider women inferior to men, specially Christianity and Judaism, the proof , did you ever hear that there is a female messenger from God in all religions of the world. Religions were dominated by men and holy books were written by men to suite their needs. Atleast , Islam doesn't consider God a male or man like Christianity and Judaism, Islam says that Allah has no gender. Even the Hadith you mentioned above, is considered one of the false Hadith because it is classified as a weak Hadith because its references are not reliable, so stop judging Islam by bringing false Hadith and misinterpreting Quran verses aiming to just to give a bad name to Islam, try to be objective next time.




(If a woman wants to prove that she was raped, then there must be four male witnesses to corroborate her account. Otherwise she will be jailed or stoned to death for confessing to “adultery.”)
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On the contrary if a woman accused of adultery , 4 witnesses should testify that they saw her doing that deed, learn Arabic well instead misinterpreting Quran, or try to find objective unbiased sources of information about Islam.


(Muslim women do not inherit property in equal portions to males. Their testimony in court is considered to be worth only half that of a man’s. Unlike a man, she must cover her head and often her face.)
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At least Islam gave half property to women, European countries ruled by Church used to give only the older brother the whole property, leaving his brothers and sisters with nothing.





(Under Islamic law, a man may divorce his wife at the drop of a hat. If he wishes to remarry her, then she must first have sex with another man. Men are exempt from such degradations.)
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Another misinterpretation of Sharia, the husband can't remarry his wife once again if he divorced her for 3 times, only when she marries another man, and if it happens that she got a divorce from the new one, she could remarry her first husband, with a condition that he hasn't encourage his first wife to divorce her second husband.




(By contrast, the most reliable of all Hadith is that of Bukhari. The word, Jihad, is mentioned over 200 times in reference to the words of Muhammad and each one is a clear connotation to holy war. By contrast, Bukhari does not contain a single reference to Jihad within the context of “personal struggle.”)
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Jihad means in Islam to struggle for doing good, for correcting wrong deeds, it is a struggle to purify your soul, first, so you can fight evil afterwards , this is one kind of Jihad, the other one, to struggle to put God word above everything, this kind of Jihad has the same purpose of Christian crusades, freeing holy land from Arab infidels, but muslims goal was to introduce a new true religion from Allah to the world, which is considerd the cream of the other 2 previous religions , which were, later, fabricated by the Rabbis and priests. So jihad=Crusades. You think that Crusades are OK, and Jihad is a big crime, I call you attitude, double standards.



posted on Aug, 26 2008 @ 06:54 AM
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(Muhammad organized 65 military campaigns in the last ten years of his life and personally led 27 of them. The more power that he attained, the smaller the excuse needed to go to battle, until finally he began attacking tribes merely because they were not part of his growing empire.)
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Most of the God messengers used to fight to spread God's word in the world, for example, Joseph, Suleiman, David, etc.
Tell me how could've Muhammad spread Allah's word without Jihad ???by giving flowers and kisses to rough Arab nomads, or by hugging Persians and Romans who were competing to conquer Arab peninsula after occupying the land of today's Syria, Lebannon, Joradn, Palestine, Egypt and Iraq.





(Muhammad’s own daughter, Fatima, and his son-in-law, Ali, who both survived the pagan hardship during the Meccan years safe and sound, did not survive Islam after the death of Muhammad. Fatima died of stress from persecution within three months, and Ali was later assassinated. Their son (Muhammad’s grandson) was killed in battle with the faction that became today’s Sunnis. His people became Shias. The relatives and personal friends of Muhammad were mixed into both warring groups, which then fractured further into hostile sub-divisions as Islam grew).
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Shias are not Ali's people, Ali's tribe is -Bani-Hashim of Quriash and they are sunnnis, Shias are Iraqis and Persians who were converted to Islam, and supported Bani-Ummai, the other major tribe of Quriash, who competed to gain the Khalifate of muslims position from Ali. They conspired with Bani-Ummai to kill Ali in Iraq, after killing him and his children, they felt guilty and started the movement of Shiaism, Shia means in Arabic, the one who are weeping for the loss of beloved, or mourners. because of that the majority of Iraq and Iran population are Shias.




(Muhammad left his men with instructions to take the battle against the Christians, Persians and Jews. For the next four centuries, Muslim armies steamrolled over unsuspecting neighbors, plundering them of loot and slaves, and forcing the survivors to either convert or pay tribute at the point of a sword.
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Muhammad did not order Muslims to slaughter Christians, Persians and Jews, as you say. He ordered them to spread the word of Allah in the world, by Jihad, it means, to reach the farthest place on earth to spread Islam, if the people under their occupation refused to follow islam , they should pay tribute or (Jizziah) in order to protect them from other enemies. For you it is Ok that Romans, Persians, Ethiopians, Egyptians, were occupying all Arab world and plundering them of loot and slave for centuries, but it is prohibited for Arabs to do the same. Even that there was a big difference between Arabs and others on how they treated the occupied nations. Romans and Persians used drink the blood of occupied land like vampires without giving back anything to Arabs for many centuries. Arabs when conquered Persia, India, parts of China, central Asia and southern Europe, they built magnificent empires by encouraging these nations to work together with Arabs and Muslims in all fields of science, literature and arts. Read about Arab Andalusia in Spain and Portugal, read about Muslim empires in Persia and India, read about the jewel of all world major cities –Baghdad, the center of culture and creativity, Damascus, the oldest city in the world, try to forget your grudge against Arabs and Muslims, and do some research about their great contribution to humanity. Try reading Karen Armstrong's books about Arabs and Muslims, they are very brief, but will give you very objective and accurate point of view about Arabs and Muslims.



posted on Aug, 26 2008 @ 06:58 AM
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Without Arabs and their civilization in Spain and Portugal, Europeans would've been still living in the dark ages, were priests ruling European nations by sword, and burning science books and scientist because they said that earth is not flat , as the bible and Torah claimed. Arabs encouraged tolerance, justice, creativity, among westerners in Europe, Arab universities were like Harvard and Oxford these days, Arabic language was spoken by the whole world like English now, so do not underestimate Arabs and Muslims , Once they ruled the whole world from China to Portugal, bringing all the nations together and creating marvelous civilization, not by using sword as you claim, they achieved that , by spreading Islam's teachings of tolerance, equality, justice and exploration.




(By the time of the Crusades (when the Europeans began fighting back), Muslims had conquered two-thirds of the Christian world by the sword, from Spain to Syria, and across North Africa. The Arab slave-trading routes would stay open for another 1300 years, until pressure from Christian-based countries forced Islamic nations to declare the practice illegal (in theory).)
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Islam is the first religion that declared slavery is illegal and encouraged people to free slaves. When the son of "Amr bin As" the ruler of Egypt whipped his servant, and Omar bin Al-Khatab the second Rashiddin Khalifate in Mecca heard about the incident, he wrote a letter to Amr ruler of Egypt, ordering him to bring his son in main court of Ciaro and in front of all people, to let the servant whip his son the same number of beatings, and at the end of the letter , Omar, wrote "How dare you to make people slaves, even that their mothers bring them to the world free. The son of Egypt's ruler was beaten by his servant in front of everybody as Omar ordered. The first commander of Islamic army that prophet Muhammad sent to spread word of Allah in Syria, was (Osama Bin Zaid) black son of ex-slave which was adopted by Muhammad. Westerners had a black chief of armies ten years ago-Collin Powell, 1500 years after (Osama Bin Zaid).




(Today, there is not another religion in the world that consistently produces terrorism in the name of religion as does Islam. The most dangerous Muslims are nearly always those who interpret the Qur’an most transparently. They are the fundamentalists or purists of the faith, and believe in Muhammad’s mandate to spread Islamic rule by the sword, putting to death those who will not submit.)
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You mean- produce terrorism in the name of religion as does Islam followers, not Islam as you claim. When Catholic Irish terrorists attack English soldiers , does it mean that Catholic religion produces terrorism????. When American Protestant female soldier torture Iraqi prisoner of war by beating him his genitals and making fun of his naked body by taking photos of him and sending to her friends in the US, does it mean that Protestant religion produces sadists????. When Israeli sniper put a bullet (with a cold blood and just for fun) in the head of 6 years old Palestinian child hiding with his father behind a wall a few blocks away from the main clash between Palestinian stone throwing children and Israeli soldiers , does mean that Judaism produces killers and cold blooded assassins???

FYI, these Islamic fundamentalists you are talking about are the produce of CIA, they used them to fight a proxy war for them against Russia in Afghanistan calling them (Muhjahiddin) from the word Jihhad, at that time Islamic Jihad was considered a holy just war by westerners, now it means terrorism….who is the hypocrite now????



posted on Aug, 26 2008 @ 07:01 AM
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(The holy texts of Islam are saturated with verses of violence and hatred toward those outside the faith. In sharp contrast to the Bible, which generally moves from relatively violent passages to far more peaceful ones, the Qur’an travels the exact opposite path. The handful of earlier verses that speak of tolerance are overwhelmed by an avalanche of later ones that carry a much different message. While Old Testament verses of blood and guts are generally bound by historical context within the text itself, Qur'anic imperatives to violence usually appear open-ended.)
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The difference here, Quran was written by Muslims just after the death of Muhammad, they made sure to write it as they heard it from Muhammad, after receiving these words from God directly.

The bible was not written at the time of the Christ or after Christ, until a Jewish man decides to write his version of bible even that he didn't see Christ. Muslims made sure that every verse of Quran must have more than one source and repeat the same words as they heard from Muhammad, so it is God's words and you can't argue with God's word. Bible is the word of that Jewish man, so Muslims don't believe in the millions of bible different versions which are issued for the last 2000 years. So it is God's problem if God want the holy text to be full of verses of hatred and violence, try to read the Torah once, Quran is very peaceful comparing to Torah.




( Religious minorities have not “flourished” under Islam. In fact, they have dwindled to mere shadows after centuries of persecution and discrimination. Some were converted from their native religion by brute force, others under the agonizing strain of dhimmitude). What Muslims call “tolerance,” others correctly identify as institutionalized discrimination. The consignment of Jews and Christians to dhimmis under Islamic rule means that they are not allowed the same religious rights and freedoms as Muslims. They cannot share their faith, for example, or build houses of worship without permission)
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Your opinion above Islam proves that you are history illiterate. I want to remind that the holocaust was committed by Christian Germans against Jews, and I don't remember that Arabs or Muslims committed any holocaust against Jews, on the contrary, the holocaust victims (Jews) for the last 50 years are committing all kind of crimes and slaughtering against Arabs. The only tome that Arabs and Muslims killed Christians was when they came to loot Arab world in the name of God at Crusades times and when the US occupied Afghanistan and Iraq.




( Tamerlane and other Muslim warriors slaughtered hundreds of thousands of Hindus and Buddhists, as well as displacing or forcibly converting millions more over the last thousand years.)
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Hahahaha…Tamerlane was not a Muslim when he slaughtered all these people, FYI, most of his victims were Muslims, but after conquering vast Islamic land and learning about the teachings of Islam, he converted to Islam and built a great empire.

Did you read what Christian missionaries and their armies from Netherlands, Britain, France, Germany, Portugal, Spain, etc, committed in North and south Americas, Africa, Far East, Caribbeans???!! Read their dark history before accusing other religions of wrong deeds.



posted on Aug, 26 2008 @ 07:04 AM
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(Although there is no arguing that the Muslim world was more advanced during this period than the “Christian” world, the reasons for this have absolutely nothing to do with the Islamic religion (other than its mandate for military expansion). In fact, the religion actively discourages knowledge outside of itself, which is why the greatest Muslim scholars throughout history tend to be students of religion rather than science.
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What a nonsense, the same old false excuses of orientalists who are driven by grudge and hatred in their hearts against Muslims. I dare you to bring one civilization that started from nothing to build a new un-known civilization , all civilizations depended on the knowledge of previous civilizations, Greeks depended of Egyptians knowledge, Arabs depended on Greeks, Europeans depended on Arabs, Americans depended on Europeans , Japanese depended on American, even a little child knows this fact. And why whenever Arab or Islamic civilization is mentioned westerners give the credit to Jews, FYI, only a few Jewish scientists are known when the Islamic and Arab civilization enlightened the world, that is because Arabs and Muslims were tolerant and gave chances to all people to participate in building their civilization, on the contrary, Jews and Christians , kept and keeping subjects of countries under their occupation, in the dark ignorance, examples, Africans , Palestinians, Native Americans, Caucasians, Arabs, Indians…etc.




(Third, even the great Muslim scientists and icons were often considered heretics in their time, sometimes for good reason. One of the greatest achievers to come out of the Muslim world was the Iranian scientist and philosopher, al-Razi. His impressive works are often held up today as “proof” of Muslim accomplishment. But what the apologists often leave out is that al-Razi was denounced as a blasphemer, since he followed his own religious beliefs – which were in obvious contradiction to traditional Islam.)


I think you mean the European scientist (I can't remember his name) who said that the earth is not flat , then the church (I think) burned him alive or hanged him can't remeber, atleast, Al- Razi nobody burned him alive.




(Fourth, even the contributions that are attributed to Islam (often inaccurately) are not terribly dramatic. There is the invention of certain words, such as alchemy and elixir, but not much else that survives in modern technology that is of any practical significance. Neither is there any reason to believe that such discoveries would not have easily been made by the West following the cultural awakening triggered by the Reformation.)
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My dear, you can't cover the sun, if you hate it or not, everybody knows that Arabs and Muslimshad great civilization, not once, but many times, they were like phoenix, Arabs in the Middle East, Arabs in Europe, Othomans in the Middle East and Europe, Muslim Persians, Muslim Mongols in India. The reason that you hate Arabs and Muslims , because you are afraid that their civilization will once again emerge like a phoenix, you and most westerners are afraid of that day. Because of that you attack everything attached to Arabs and Muslims, because of that and for the first time Christianity and Judaism united to achieve the same goal, destroying any chance for Arabs and Muslims to revive their magnificent civilization once again.

I am bored with your nonsense, I think I am wasting my time answering your nonsense, but try to read my answers and think objectively, try for a minute to forget the grudge and hatred in your heart, you will feel better.



posted on Aug, 26 2008 @ 07:18 AM
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Well, obviously you have no understanding of Chirstianity or the laws that govern the western world. The crusade were undertaken in response to Muslim agression, not as a holy war to spread Christianity. Both women and men take a vow of obediance to thier new spouses. Men are considered to be responsible for taking care of their wives if they divorce them, but in modern times when a woman can support herself, this tradition is going away. A man's brother is ussually responisible for taking care of his deceased brother's wife, but does not take over her property. These types of traditions come from barbaric times when a woman could not defend herself in a more brutal world. In modern times, a woman receives the same property rights as a man. Most of the things you speak of differ from country to country. Raping the women of your defeated enemy has not been acceptable in the west for several centuries, just as slavery has not been acceptable for several centuries.



posted on Aug, 26 2008 @ 07:34 AM
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Hmm, so exactly what wree Islam's great contributions to technological advancement? I know of the telescope, but that is about it.



posted on Aug, 26 2008 @ 07:37 AM
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reply to post by tamar.kh85
 


Christianity, in general, has progressed and teaches tolerance, understanding and respect for other religions.

Islam, in general, has regressed, and fundamentalism preaches a brand of Islam which is particularly intolerant and barbaric with emphasis placed on imposition of Sharia Law upon the whole world.

I accept that not all Muslims believe this.
Unfortunately it is this brand of Islam which is on the rise.

To quote The Crusades as defence for current events is ridiculous.
They happened nearly a thousand years ago.
If the world was to dwell on every act of war and oppression that has occured since well, I don't think many of us would be here now, the whole world would be ablaze!

Unless conventional, peace loving Muslims cull the wolf in their own lair someone else will have to, with possible dire consequences for us all.
It is time for Muslims to start acknowledging and accepting some responsibility for what is occuring in THEIR name instead of blaming anything and anyone else.

For the record, I am agnostic and feel no particular affiliation to Christian beliefs, it is just my opinion based on what I see, read and hear every day of my life, free from dogma and rhetoric.

[edit on 26/8/08 by Freeborn]



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