How do you feel about the EU? (to EU citizens)

Hello,

Im just trying to gain perspective from other Eu citizens but obviously, outside perspectives are also good. Try not to turn this into a cross atlantic bashing thread.

Here are the questions


1)How do you feel about the EU as it is now and how it will be when Lisbon is completely pushed through?

2)Are you proud to be a part of such an organization which has given us close to the longest period of peace in millennia?

Or do you feel that it is taking too much from the volatile but pride inducing nationalism that surrounds a continent of such diverse peoples, cultures and history?

3)As many know and many try to deny, the EU is quickly moving towards a single state with centralized power, a constitution, close to 500 million citizens, a massive army and the worlds largest economy.
In this situation, do you feel that the ruling powers will be to far from the average person? Do you think that a situation like what has happened in the US with the ruling elite will occur? Or do you think this can be overcome?

Just as throughout history, smaller groups of people come together to form larger groups. Just as tribes banded together, then towns, then counties, then countries, and now continents. The world is becoming a smaller place, now that information and travel are far easier than ever before. Being scared of people coming together is as futile as it gets - its in our nature.

I'm not proud of anything I've not done personally (as I don't see how I can be proud of someone else's work - it's their work, not mine).

As for the EU becoming more like the US, I doubt it. The US political system is intrinsically flawed, and thankfully Europe seems to have a much healthier view of what politics is - a secular endeavour for the benefit of the constituents. There will be problems, and the EU might need some shake-ups along the way, but it has the most potential out of any continent in the world - far more so than the US.

Time will tell.

As for the EU becoming more like the US, I doubt it. The US political system is intrinsically flawed, and thankfully Europe seems to have a much healthier view of what politics is - a secular endeavour for the benefit of the constituents.

The only thing that worries me in relation to a centralized Eu government is that it will be a joining of some of the Worlds most elitist based governments - France & the UK.

At the moment, the governments of these two countries in particular, are very far from the average person. When this transfers to a union of 500 million, they will be untouchable and may lead to corruption and political influence profiteering for the corporations.

Originally posted by Dermo

At the moment, the governments of these two countries in particular, are very far from the average person. When this transfers to a union of 500 million, they will be untouchable and may lead to corruption and political influence profiteering for the corporations.

Couldn't agree more.
The EU is very corrupt at present.

news.bbc.co.uk...

Neil Kinnock was appointed EU Commisioner, specifically tasked with addressing corruption within the EU.

www.indymedia.org.uk...

Seems to me he is part of the problem, not the cure.
He suspended Martha Andreason for claiming that "EU accounts are rotten to the core" despite the fact that auditors have refused to sign off accounts for the last 9 years.

www.davidsumberg.com...

www.politics.co.uk...

The EU is far too removed from everyday 'Europeans'.
The whole system is unwieldy and beaurocratic.

In addition their policies seem to be Franco - German dominated.

As stated previously, the current breed of politicians seem to be so far removed from ordinary, everyday voters that their policies show little or no regard for the wishes or well being of the electorate.

Yes, there have been some improvements thanks to the EU; Spanish, Greek and The Republic Of Ireland have benefited immensely with great improvements in their infrastructures and economies, at the percieved expense of the likes of Britain and Germany.

As a Trade Organisation the EU has probably been a success for the majority of member states.
The Euro has also probably been a success for most of those who accepted it's introduction.

But at what cost?

Lack of National pride, self-government and self-determination.
Increased remoteness and reduced accountability of politicians and civil servants.
Massive waste and corruption.

Will cultural diversity be discouraged?
(There seems to be a concerted effort to 'alter' British society and impose a more 'continental' culture upon us).

Increased enhancement and empowerment of the EU will only further the advancement and interests of those with their own hidden agenda's with the eventual imposition of a New World Order.

I for one will resist that till my dying breath.

Edit: Various spelling and grammar!

[edit on 26/8/08 by Freeborn]

I say either do it properly or dont do it at all...if we want an EU lets give it the full shabam,no borders,all wealth added together and spent accordingly,one EU army etc etc...Basically one country...if not we keep our sovereignty and pull out of the EU....but thats just me

1. We have moved to far away from what the EU was first perceived to be - A Trade Organisation. What the EU is today is NOT what most Europeans signed up for.

2. The EU itself cannot be the one to claim 50 years of peace, it is NATO that can claim that. The EU could claim the prosperity part. I am English and do not claim to be European and I dont think many Brits do.

3. The powers that control the EU are already too far removed from reality and the European population. They are set on an agenda which is not the same as the populations.

I can forsee at some point that people will provoke a backlash against Brussels. The EU at the moment is not what the people want. As for the percieved EU Army, its pie in the sky and will never be a truly integrated functioning force.

I say, put the EU back to its original goal - a trade block. Trying to water down nations only makes those nations more protective and is likely to backfire on the EU masters.

Originally posted by Dermo
1)How do you feel about the EU as it is now and how it will be when Lisbon is completely pushed through?

Illegal and corrupt. I question the morality any organisation which refuses to take no for an answer and will ask you again and again and again and again until you say yeas

2)Are you proud to be a part of such an organization which has given us close to the longest period of peace in millennia?

I am proud to be British.

As for peace: exactly what evidence is there that Denmark would have invaded Portugal had it not been for the EU?

And I didn't see it bring any peace to N Ireland or the Basque region.

And as for the Belgiums .......

3)As many know and many try to deny, the EU is quickly moving towards a single state with centralized power, a constitution, close to 500 million citizens, a massive army and the worlds largest economy.

Indeed, President Blair the anti-christ ..... but realistically I think the EU will collapse over the next decade or so. Hoepfully in a peaceful manner. Artificial federalisation never works for long - just ask the Balkans!

reply to post by Wotan


I agree entirely.
There is such a long history of Britain being at war with either one or more of the continental countries that the British people will never allow it's security to be solely defended by a joint EU Army managed by Brussels.

Example;
www.historyguy.com...

Europe is littered with similar histories between countries and enmities run deep, if somewhat suppressed at present.

As a British Citizen, i dont want to be apart of the eu

1)How do you feel about the EU as it is now and how it will be when Lisbon is completely pushed through?

It's a scam now and it'll be even more of a scam once the Lisbon treaty is pushed through. It's over beurocratic and definately does not have the best interest of the people at heart.

2)Are you proud to be a part of such an organization which has given us close to the longest period of peace in millennia?

Or do you feel that it is taking too much from the volatile but pride inducing nationalism that surrounds a continent of such diverse peoples, cultures and history?

I'm not proud to be part of the EU. As others have mentioned, I don't feel 'European'. Maybe it's a British thing. I certainly feel more Scottish than anything else. My Scottish nationalism has already been greatly eroded and the EU threatens to do that more.

3)As many know and many try to deny, the EU is quickly moving towards a single state with centralized power, a constitution, close to 500 million citizens, a massive army and the worlds largest economy.
In this situation, do you feel that the ruling powers will be to far from the average person? Do you think that a situation like what has happened in the US with the ruling elite will occur? Or do you think this can be overcome?

The EU is a huge step in the NWO's plan. The centralisation of power, money, business, people control, military and economics will really help move towards a one world goverment set-up. The central EU government is already far from democratic. Also look at the recent expenses scam to hit MEP's, which wasn't well documented. The people are much further removed from the government and loose even more control.

I have no real issues with the E.U., per say.
Infact, it can be a good thing - to help erase the silly borders and nationalism which divides and doesnt help to push life forward.

To bad that being in the E.U. doesnt automatically mean you can adopt the Euro...still waiting for the Euro here in Hungary - with the rate things are going, Russia will have the Euro before we do.

Peace

dAlen

[edit on 26-8-2008 by dAlen]

Being British myself alot of the views in Britain are that europe gave up trying to take over everything with force in a military sense after WW2 and decided to do i politically

the EU basic principal is good but then again comunism looks good no paper but it just doesnt work the whole piramid structure of wealth trinckerling down to the masses just does not work

in the long term all it will do is deepen the devide between the havs and have nots and fester revolution

the British poloticians have forced alot of agreements through to bring us into the EU without giving the population a say in the matter and is one of the reason so many people in Britain are so disalousioned with the political system

Career plloticians that are now moving through the ranks have no real connection to the population that it govens none of them know what it is truly like to live in the UK now as a "normal" citizen

The UK despratley needs some people to rise up and join the race who are from background that has actualy Worked in the real world.

and example of how detached our poloticians are from us just look at the UK minimum wage if its so easy to live on why arn our poloticians not paid it surly there not in it for the money but to serve the people
Their massive pay cheques and expenses could then be put to better use in country? ...yeah right

the EU failed as soon as they lost the bootle to all go all the way in and where the founding countries still hold all the strings

rant over lol sorry guys


Edit
even if the flaws of the current build of the EU where to dissapear tomorrow Britain would stlil no be ready to join
Untill it accepts the fact that we need to stop expecting the rest of the world to learn english and actualy start teaching our kids a second,thrid and forth languanges from nursery/kindergarden like the rest of europe does untill then intergration will be like swimming against a the tide ...

[edit on 26-8-2008 by Amitsumikaboshi]

As far as I know, no-one in any of the 27 European countries that make up the European Union has ever voted for any member of the European Parliment, let alone a President ........ They call that Democracy.

If they had any balls, they would let the people of the EU decide its fate. I know what would happen ..... it would disintergrate overnight.

All I can hope for is that someone/political party has the balls to stand up and say that enough is enough and pull us back from the brink.

I wouldnt mind betting that if any of the big 3 political parties in the UK changed their stance to anti-EU that they would form the next Government by a massive landslide.

Give the people the vote/referendum on the EU ........ What are you afraid of?

Originally posted by Wotan
As far as I know, no-one in any of the 27 European countries that make up the European Union has ever voted for any member of the European Parliment, let alone a President ........ They call that Democracy.

Honestly, consider this:

Americans vote:
Land of the free, and home of the brave - where anyone can become president...but it turns out only people related to each other become president.

Whats the use of pretending that there is free choice to vote for whoever.
The fact is it wouldnt happen, just not how this system of politics works.
(im not into politics in any form, just stating the obvious.)

Let the politicians play their games, and the fact they arent trying to b.s. anyone that they have a choice in president is a sign that they see people arent that overtly stupid.

Like all things, it has its time and purposes and comes in various forms depending on what the mass consciousness needs/wants.

When enough people are ready...politics will change for good...so much so it wont even have that name anymore.

But until then, less time fretting about silly politicians, and more focus on internal change will go a long way.

Peace

dAlen

[edit on 26-8-2008 by dAlen]

Land of the free, and home of the brave - where anyone can become president...but it turns out only people related to each other become president.

I have always found this kind of funny, 'the land of the free' is obviously a nationalist thing. But do Americans really take it that seriously? Free in comparison to whom? Russians? Chinese? I have always wondered, some seem to be joking when they say it but others seem to be deadly serious.

Anyway, back to the point..

Whats the use of pretending that there is free choice to vote for whoever.
The fact is it wouldnt happen, just not how this system of politics works.

Yes, but as long as the member states can keep the majority of their own laws and democracies, it wouldn't really bother me that much who was running the EU.

I would happily leave it up to my voted leaders to vote on their leader in the EU. The EU president and parliament is so far removed from people like me, it is a staggering thought.