Was schizophrenia just invented to keep people from believing in a God?

Schizophrenia is said to be a condition given to people who claim to hear voices or see things. Could this form of mental disease have been invented to create a fear in people to keep them from believing in God so it would make them afraid of hearing God's or the Goddesses's voice?

Quite possible. I don't think it was invented to make that assumption but know people who use it as the assumption. You could be right though. People could have made it up to say "Oh he talks to God...how delusional"

I dunno. That's one of those things I would sure love to know

-Kyo

It's not always the voice of god that people claim to hear though. There can be claims of "The devil made me do it" or "Elvis speaks to me".
There are also delusions of grandeur.
Feeling like you are the sole receiver of special messages that you alone must act on to save humanity.

en.wikipedia.org...

Schizophrenia is often described in terms of positive (or productive) and negative (or deficit) symptoms.[13] Positive symptoms include delusions, auditory hallucinations, and thought disorder, and are typically regarded as manifestations of psychosis. Negative symptoms are so-named because they are considered to be the loss or absence of normal traits or abilities, and include features such as flat or blunted affect and emotion, poverty of speech (alogia), inability to experience pleasure (anhedonia), and lack of motivation (avolition). Despite the appearance of blunted affect, recent studies indicate that there is often a normal or even heightened level of emotionality in schizophrenia, especially in response to stressful or negative events.[14] A third symptom grouping, the disorganization syndrome, is commonly described, and includes chaotic speech, thought, and behaviour. There is evidence for a number of other symptom classifications.[15]

reply to post by AccessDenied

I think I get what you're saying. It's a disorder to label people in the extreme cases. Yet, I don't see what's wrong with there being people who actually do get messages from above. I don't see why anyone should be labeled because they believe they receive a message from God. Look at Joan D'arc. She would have been considered schizophrenic yet she practically saved the French from the English.

[edit on 26-8-2008 by Frankidealist35]

[edit on 26-8-2008 by Frankidealist35]

Per the DSM

DSM IV-TR

Gotta have at least two of those symptoms for the DSM to consider schizophrenia

Per the psychological dictionary...

Delusion

Psychiatry. a fixed false belief that is resistant to reason or confrontation with actual fact

This is where you lose me. Who gets to decide what is real or not? No offense folks but what is delusional to one isn't to another

-Kyo

reply to post by KyoZero

I couldn't agree more. No one shares the same perception of reality. So how is one to determine what is real and what isn't?

Originally posted by Frankidealist35
reply to post by AccessDenied

 

Okay... schizoprenia basically is a mental disorder given to people who have absolute belief and faith in something they believe in that isn't provable by scientific means? Whatever happened to our first amendment rights?

[edit on 26-8-2008 by Frankidealist35]

That would depend on who you ask.
My only experience is with my ex, diagnosed as bi-polar, and schizophrenic, with delusions of grandeur.
In my opinion, science doesn't even come close to knowing what the human mind is capable of. That being said, it doesn't mean that if the voices could be proven to be real, that they are indeed from God.
If you believe that the spirit never dies and that there are those that manipulate in the physical world, this could be proof of that. Just my theory of course, but just as possible.
First amendment rights?
Freedom of speech huh.
Well now, have you ever tried to carry on a conversation with someone who has this disorder?
I have.
It's not pretty. It can be scary as hell.
A person who walks in circles or paces while speaking out loud to someone whom you cannot see. Who claims to be the only one with the message to save man from his own destruction.
Who looks for signs in numbers, and letters, and names of places in people.
Who sees the dialogue in a random TV show as GOD speaking to them directly.
Who tells you that you will burn in hell if you don't follow what they say.
Who stands on the street corner with bible in hand preaching to anyone who will listen. Who goes on a week long trek into the woods , naked, to be closer to god.
Will YOU be the one to stand by an individual like this? Will YOU be their advocate? Or would you seek the professional help they need...????

Originally posted by AccessDenied
Originally posted by Frankidealist35
reply to post by AccessDenied

That would depend on who you ask.
My only experience is with my ex, diagnosed as bi-polar, and schizophrenic, with delusions of grandeur.
In my opinion, science doesn't even come close to knowing what the human mind is capable of. That being said, it doesn't mean that if the voices could be proven to be real, that they are indeed from God.
If you believe that the spirit never dies and that there are those that manipulate in the physical world, this could be proof of that. Just my theory of course, but just as possible.
First amendment rights?
Freedom of speech huh.
Well now, have you ever tried to carry on a conversation with someone who has this disorder?
I have.
It's not pretty. It can be scary as hell.
A person who walks in circles or paces while speaking out loud to someone whom you cannot see. Who claims to be the only one with the message to save man from his own destruction.
Who looks for signs in numbers, and letters, and names of places in people.
Who sees the dialogue in a random TV show as GOD speaking to them directly.
Who tells you that you will burn in hell if you don't follow what they say.
Who stands on the street corner with bible in hand preaching to anyone who will listen. Who goes on a week long trek into the woods , naked, to be closer to god.
Will YOU be the one to stand by an individual like this? Will YOU be their advocate? Or would you seek the professional help they need...????

I do think the divine spirit that created us speaks to all of us. In some people the divine spirit speaks to and they just can't quite handle it so you have the people that are labeled as schizophrenics. Of course there are going to be people out there that will force you to try to follow them and their belief and they will say that if you don't follow their belief that you shall die... but it's people like that who give a bad reputation to true believers.

I was talking about the first amendment because it guarentees our right to freedom of religion. Our right to believe in what we want to believe in. Like I said before though-- that the divine spirit speaks within all of us-- those who ignore it take a more skeptical approach to it-- and those who hear it sometimes get too riled up about it.

I'd like to talk to these people that claim that they hear God's voice and that it tells them to save the human race. I'm sure they have something that's worthwhile that everyone has to hear.



[edit on 26-8-2008 by Frankidealist35]

[edit on 26-8-2008 by Frankidealist35]

[edit on 26-8-2008 by Frankidealist35]

[edit on 26-8-2008 by Frankidealist35]

reply to post by Frankidealist35


By all means if you want to talk to them, go for it. See what insight you get.
They frequent many a street corner in every city, and the psych hospitals are full of them.
Study it. Do your homework. look for similarities, AND differences.
Compare it to what they teach in organized religion.
Good luck on your quest for knowledge.

Well done AD

Yes I have talekd to several who suffer from paranoid schizophrenia and SAD.

It is scary as all get out sometimes and they do need professional help. They will need help that I cannot give even when I find my masters. Some people DO need medical treatment and not just a talking to.

The problem I have is when a person claims they talk to God and they are not paranoid, not suffering flattened affect or any of the rest of the symptoms outside of delusion and hallucinations. Who am I to say it isn't really God or the Goddess talking? What if the person claims it's been going on for years but doesn't represent a danger. Do we lock them up if they suffer what others deem as a 'delusion'?

Look I realize that paranoid schizophreniacs can represent a major danger to themselves and others but the world of the DSM and pscyhology goes well beyond just that diagnosis.

-Kyo

i remember reading somewhere that some forms schizophrenia (sp?) involve a malfunction of return signals to the brain.

like you go to pick up a cup for example, your brain sends the signal to the hand, then the hand sends certain signals back, like touch,but also to confirm the movement.

the journal pointed out that sometimes the signal is not "recognized" meaning it arrived, but for the some reason the brain wasnt expecting it like it should.

this left the patient with the sensation that their arm was being controlled by someone else. other things included it looking in the mirror and feeling like your looking at someone else. internal monoluge felt like someone else talking inside thier head.

again, just one form. dont know if this helps

Very true and that is one form. I was just pointing out to AD that paranoid schizophrenia while frightening and awfully hard to deal with isn't the only type. People can suffer schizophrenia and not have the rest of the sympstoms such as altered affect

-Kyo

Perhaps the OP is not paying attention to their very own argument. Whose actually owns the voice that is inside your head?

As long as you believe the voice in your head sounds like you, people will do what they are told. Schizophrenics are a beacon of light that should tell you that the voice in your head is no more yours than all the voices that they hear.

Yes, now go start the car and go to work. That is what your voice in your head tells you to do generally every day, right? How do you know it isn't someone else's voice giving you commands that just sounds like you?

A little speculation...

Sometimes I wonder if perhaps what they see and hear is very real and for some reason they are perceiving an extra dimensional reality that is always there but most people just can't perceive it.

The entities could use it to there advantage as well and make you look bad intentionally - (probably demonic types) - this would explain the Son of Sam killer type etc.

In a sense, what if the schizophrenics are actually the sane ones? And we are just stuck in the matrix of 4 dimensions enjoying the bliss of ignorance to the greater spiritual reality that is interacting all around us.

What about when Bush talks with god, is that schizophrenia? Your president is schizophrenic…..LOL

Originally posted by andre18
What about when Bush talks with god, is that schizophrenia? Your president is schizophrenic…..LOL

no, its a little earpiece with uncle chaney and microphone in the back

Originally posted by KyoZero
Well done AD

Yes I have talekd to several who suffer from paranoid schizophrenia and SAD.

It is scary as all get out sometimes and they do need professional help. They will need help that I cannot give even when I find my masters. Some people DO need medical treatment and not just a talking to.

The problem I have is when a person claims they talk to God and they are not paranoid, not suffering flattened affect or any of the rest of the symptoms outside of delusion and hallucinations. Who am I to say it isn't really God or the Goddess talking? What if the person claims it's been going on for years but doesn't represent a danger. Do we lock them up if they suffer what others deem as a 'delusion'?

Look I realize that paranoid schizophreniacs can represent a major danger to themselves and others but the world of the DSM and pscyhology goes well beyond just that diagnosis.

-Kyo

My only experience is the extreme end of the spectrum. I'm sure there are many who function quite normally amongst us, and rarely speak of hearing voices. Only if they present a danger to others or themselves, or are extremely "Disruptive" to a community, or their families, do I suggest help or medication.
You have me somewhat confused as to your comparison between schizophrenia and SAD (Seasonal Affective Disorder). I don't want to derail the thread, but the only thing the two have in common are forms of depression.
SAD being predominantly that symptom, schizophrenia it being just a small part in the entire illness.

Let me not use acronyms anymore :-p

SAD (Schizo Affective Disorder) is what I meant.

Essentially Schizophrenia with added bipolar OR depresion

please accept my apology as I a sure that was awfully confusing :-p

-Kyo

reply to post by Bigwhammy


Son of sam killer, David Berkowitz, claims and many investigators support, a cult involvement in the 1977 New York murders.
A child pornography ring.
Also, that many of the murders involved 'snuff' filming.
Here


I knew a guy, who took 42 hits of *a certain drug* at one time and that caused him to be schizophrenic.
He would lock himself up in his room at the group home, where we hung out, when the voices started. I don't know what happened to him.

This has NOTHING to do with most street preachers, and I've met a LOT of them.
They're not schizophrenic.

Hearing from G-d via the Bible is what G-d gave us the Bible for.
G-d gave us clothes and a mind for a reason.

Anything someone 'hears' from G-d, that goes against scripture is WRONG!


Also, I think there are many 'blanket' labels that people could get from psychiatrists!
(Especially bi-polar. "Do you have mood swings? Well, here's a prescription for Lithium, you're bi-polar.")
My sister used to be bi-polar(supposedly) Spending lots of money out of her husband's account while they were separated.
Now, she'll tell you, it was simply because she was selfish and a brat! (What I thought a along! lol)
I was diagnosed bi-polar, after a 15 minute conversation with the doc, when I was 19.


[edit on 26-8-2008 by Clearskies]

[edit on 26-8-2008 by Clearskies]

Okay... I just wanted to say this. We all here voices. We hear our own voices in our heads. That being said there might be times when we feel like we've heard other voices that don't come from our head. After all I don't believe scientists have studied our conscious that seriously. And that being said, the voices we hear may come from God, as our consciousness may walk to another plane of existence and is more than likely capable of talking to God or a Goddess... I guess it all depends on your belief system. If you don't believe in God you'll believe that people who do communicate with God are crazy. I believe in a divine spirit and I can communicate with a divine spirit yet I don't suffer from symptoms of delusion. I think we all share this ability and if we were to stop talking to the divine spirit we would lose our life energy. I'm not saying that it's an excuse for us to not control our own actions. Just saying it is kind of stupid to just say everyone who believes they can talk to a God is delusional.