Christianity is Imploding!

Oh, and I should probably leave an on-topic reply, too.

Yes, MP. Christianity is 'imploding' just like Jesus and the New Testament authors prophesied it would at the end. This is an exciting time to live in. We are warned to hold on to what we have amid wolves in sheep's clothing, prosperity Gospel Christians, apostate teachings, and a plethora of other problems that were foretold and what we are seeing today.

Compounded with the other prophecies fulfilled, we are most definitely in the time. This is simply another fulfillment of an unfortunate thing that has to take place but it is given to us as a sign.

follow up to my previous post

I've covered this topic many times.

So as not to waste resources, those interested can read my previous posts on John 1:1-2 here:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Grover said
[both have become too distracted from their real purpose, the enightenment of "men's" souls and have become too caught up in the social and political world and more specifically in trying to impose their world views on others as opposed to trying to live the life and cultivate their own spiritual growth.]



I agree 100 % with that statement which is one of the reasons why I came out from among them .(The Modern day Churchs) .....Not saying that I dislike them .neither am I not a Christian anymore because I am ..I just read the word myself more now ..and pray more alone etc ......nor am I saying I am any better than them because I am not ..I just didnt want to sit there and be a part of what they stand for (what they stand for now that is) ...it is most of the time about as far away from our God as you could get ..in fact they remind me of the Israelites who built the golden calf and went about their rituals .......................................





[edit on 25-8-2008 by Simplynoone]

Originally posted by Sparky63

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Sparky,

A final, startling passage is Proverbs 30:4. The prophet Agur is speaking about the nature of Almighty God, confessing his ignorance of him.

"Who has ascended to heaven and come down? Who has gathered the wind in his fists? Who has wrapped up the waters in a garment? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is his name, and what is his son's name? Surely you know!" In that day the prophet knew only the Father's name, the name Jehovah. Today we know that his Son's name is the Lord Jesus Christ.

I think you are confused as to what the prophet is really asking here.
The wole point of his series of questions is that no imperfect human has gone up to heaven and come back omniscient; nor has any human the ability to control the wind, the seas, or the geological forces shaping the earth.

In effect, then, Agur asked: ‘Do you know the name or family line of any man who has done these things?’ We must answer no.

Surely you are not using this to support the pagan trinity doctrine.

You can stick with your ideas, and "experts" who deny Christ is God made flesh. Not me.

I'll keep agreeing with Paul, God, and Jesus Christ Himself. Btw, calling the idea of the "trinity" pagan, is blasphemy. Just because Satan copied God's attributes when he founded his faux-religions doesn't mean that the Holy Godhead is "pagan".

You need to seek forgiveness for saying that.

We read in Revelation 1:17-18 "... Fear not; I am the First and the Last: I am He that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive forevermore, Amen ..."

The title "First and the Last" is from the Old Testament and it is a title that belongs only to YHWH. Thus it is none other than YHWH Who is saying that He died. We know from the context of the first chapter in Revelation that it is none other than Christ who is speaking here. 1 God in 3 persons.

Phillippians 2:5-8 tells us that Christ gave up equality with YHWH when He became a man and dwelt on the earth. Although He was still God even after He became man, He gave up the rights that He possessed as God when He lived on earth. That is why when He was on earth He was fully dependent upon His Father to perform miracles.

"And now, O Father, glorify Thou Me with Thine Own Self with the glory which I had with Thee before the world was" - John 17:5 (prayed right before his crucifixion).

And I reject your take on the verses from man's creation "Let us make a man in our image." YHWH was speaking to Yeshua. Angels are not in the image of God, only man was created in the image of God. Angels are described, and they were created differently. You CANNOT claim YHWH was talking to the angels when He said this, He was speaking to His Son Yeshua.

1 John 5:20 Says that Jesus Christ is "the true God and eternal life."

The Scriptures clearly teach that Christ is God (i.e. John 1:1; Hebrews 1:8; Titus 2:13). In Titus 2:13 Christ is referred to as "our great God and Savior." In Revelation 1:8 Jesus Christ plainly states that he is "the Almighty".

We read in John 1:3 that without Yeshua, who is also called the Word, "not anything was made that was made." Obviously, then, Yeshua was not made or otherwise He would have had to have made Himself which makes no sense. Colossians 1:17 teaches that Yeshua "is before all things and by Him all things consist (are sustained)."

And Colossians 1:18 says about Yeshua that "He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence." No creature must have the preeminence in all things. That position belongs only to YHWH alone, and, thus, Yeshua must be YHWH in order for the Scriptures to declare that He must have the preeminence in all things. Glory to God! Only God is capable of fitting such a description!

Yeshua didn't say that "Before Abraham was born I was". Jesus said, "Before Abraham was born I AM". Yeshua was claiming He was enternal, He had always existed. Only God has that characteristic, not even angels can claim to be eternal.

Only someone who goes to a cult church would regard the teaching that Yeshua isn't God, or would deny the Trinity. At this point I'll assume that you are a Jehovah's Witness cultist.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


I could go through each and every one of the scriptures that you have taken out of context, explain to you the meaning of the Hebrew & Greek words, show you how they are used in other scriptures so you could get the true sense of the words, rather than relying on the narrow and often incorrect translation of the King James, but I'm afraid it would do no good. Your misunderstanding of Prov 30:4 and lack of willingness to admit your error speaks volumes,

It seems that rather than have a civil discussion you would rather resort to name calling and insults.

I hope that you will at least do some research on your own and examine carefully what you have been taught to make sure that your beliefs are in complete harmony with all other scriptures. Then and only then will you have reason to be confident in your beliefs.

I hope you have a long and happy life my friend.

[edit on 25-8-2008 by Sparky63]

Ahh, YAH-its the end times...Hello??

without even reading this post, i will gladly imply that the dieoff is, and will continue. do to the fact that those little sheeple are following said messenger rather than just applying the message, because said messinger was an imaginary figure to put fear into man.

forgot to add in me last post ---------------------MORE WASTED TIME AND ENERGY!!!!!

Originally posted by FalknFerno
All we know is some almight powerful being either way, created us, and to worship God.

Do we really know this? How?

From my point of view... I am God. You are God. All Consciousness is God. I do not need worship. A little respect and I'm happy.

Originally posted by Sparky63
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

I could go through each and every one of the scriptures that you have taken out of context, explain to you the meaning of the Hebrew & Greek words, show you how they are used in other scriptures so you could get the true sense of the words, rather than relying on the narrow and often incorrect translation of the King James, but I'm afraid it would do no good. Your misunderstanding of Prov 30:4 and lack of willingness to admit your error speaks volumes,

It seems that rather than have a civil discussion you would rather resort to name calling and insults.

I hope that you will at least do some research on your own and examine carefully what you have been taught to make sure that your beliefs are in complete harmony with all other scriptures. Then and only then will you have reason to be confident in your beliefs.

I hope you have a long and happy life my friend.

I didn't "name call", I can surmise that by your stance you most likely are a Jehovah's Witness. Am I in error? And you have me mistaken, I only trust the original Greek and Hebrew, quite often I'm needing to use a concordance to study the scriptures. But, by all means, I invite you to rip the verses to shreds.

This has to be done in order for the end times to come. The church will start being disregarded, as it should be. The church has become nothing more then a green making machine. It is our duties as Christians to keep a strong faith because we will be tested before the times come. Keep your faith strong and
never doubt your beliefs. It is better to die for your own beliefs then being misled and dying for someone else's.

3 As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”
4 And Jesus answered and said to them, “See to it that no one misleads you. 5 “For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will mislead many. 6 “You will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not frightened, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end. 7 “For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes. 8 “But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs.


23 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Behold, here is the Christ,’ or ‘There He is,’ do not believe him. 24 “For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect. 25 “Behold, I have told you in advance. 26 “So if they say to you, ‘Behold, He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out, or, ‘Behold, He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe them. 27 “For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28 “Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.

Matthew 24: 3-28

Sorry for my anonymous post. I've been on both sides of this debate and I've discovered enlightenment. We are like a bunch of angry insects in bowl. We all find our corners to hide in and everything is fine, we multiply and become numerous. Then one day God gets bored and shakes us all up to watch us fight, or puts a couple bits of food in for us to fight for, or share. I believe in God alright, but don't think for a second that you can't become food for the lion or wolves. To a those with a belief system, life is often just a means to another place or higher existence. To those without a belief system, life is the end. I don't understand why people are so offended when a Christian tries to convert them. Its better than a sword at your neck in some current locations in the world. I find it ironic that so many angry atheists will post on websites upset about Christians. I understand people need support groups and the original poster was looking for support in there belief or conclusion. Fact of life is most people are sheep. You may not be a sheep, you could be something more. I suspect you are a sheep though that is simply lost. Please don't be offended by what I say. I don't mean it as an insult. Sometimes when people leave their flock they look around for others for comfort, its natural but a clear sign of a sheep. If you are a true leader or independent thinker, you don't need the support of others to reaffirm your views. Let them be a believe what they want. Christian thumping has been around a long time and eventually it leads to an uprising. History repeats itself.

Besides Moocowman being guilty of using backwards logic, there are many of you on here making huge generalizations with no support for them.

I can no longer spend any more time beyond this last post in this thread except to say this:

I was once a Non-Christian claiming, attacking, and saying all the dirt that Moocowman and most of you others here are currently using.

Then 1 day I became a Christian Mystic and experienced directly Spiritual Enlightenment (it's all over the Bible if you can read between the lines).

And Guess what!!!!!! Where I am now, being a Christian Mystic, knowing and Loving God, and having this inner peace and Enlightenment is about a TRILLION times better than where I used to be....which is where many of you are now.

Thats saying allot right there because I used to be on Moocowman's side. And that side sucks, its so lame, self defeating, a slave to the ego and to the flesh. Always negative, half glass empty, everything annoys one on that side and of course theres the fear of death.

But where I am now, I just rest and have peace and look forward to crossing over to the other side. I have faculties beyond logic and reason and because of my Spiritual Enlightenment have gotten deeply into quantum mechanics and infinite math, amongst chemistry, theology and other Spiritually rich and interactive subjects.

So I say to you doubters, haters, skeptics. Make the switch. Its so easy. You just have to want to do it out of your own heart. Besides it's inevitable that revelations, ezekial, and daniel will be fulfilled sooner or later.

Plus the decline of Christianity is even predicted in the Bible. It's nothing new. There will be a huge decline while in its place unmoral sinful acts, murders, rapes, disease, disasters, recessions, weather, and many other things will increase to ridiculously high levels. Of course we all see that on CNN and other news sources.

Still just when you guys think you got us and that Christianity is dead..... as long as there is 1 hermit somewhere stashed in cave reading his scripture, meditations and prostrations..... all it would take is that lone ranger to re-establish the Kingdom of Heaven on Earth. Just one man.

Religion is a prison to the seekers of wisdom. Jesus wasn't religion. He is a way of life. And you cannot ever destroy or kill off a way of life that includes ineffable truth in it. Truth cannot be killed, only hidden like the hermit waiting for his time to reinstate truth.

I salute you, all my nay saying arch-nemesis type brothers. Please take note that I would sacrifice my own life for any one of you to know the Love of God that I experience and know, even for just a small 5 second taste of it.

reply to post by Deaf Alien

The day that christianity finally disappear is the day I will jump in joy for people. We have been enslaved for too long.

Unfortunately, that wont happen any time soon. Just take a stroll anywhere and you will see churches every few blocks. You will see thousands and thousands of people going to churches, parking lots filling up every Sunday.

Christianity dying? Hardly.

Ah, how long did it take for some governments to go down? Watch, it will happen suddenly. Or it will appear to be sudden but all the signs are there!

reply to post by LoneGunMan

I must beg to differ. I used to be a church consultant and have been to well over a thousand churches of all denominations and interviewed over a thousand pastors and Priests. In total candor and have received information most will never be privy to. I am a Reverend and they all BS with me because I am "one of the boys".

It is not only imploding but it is dieing faster than its growth. The Mega-church craze will finally transform it completely into something strange you will not recognize.

I starred you! Thank you for the affirmation. I have had a lot of experience with many religions and have seen the "falling away." Sometimes by large numbers.

The truth hurts but you cannot wish it away.

"The truth shall set you free, but first it will make you miserable!"

Denial will not make reality go away!

Do we really know this? How? From my point of view... I am God. You are God. All Consciousness is God. I do not need worship. A little respect and I'm happy.

We are not God, but manifestations of God. God is within us and everywhere else but God is not you or me. To say you are God would limit God to just you. You can't limit the unlimited. The drop from an ocean is not the ocean.

A little respect and your happy? Cool. Respect for me in my book is something the ego needs, ego blocks God, ego Blocks Love is God.

Your view point..... I dont know if is something you read and you like because you intellectualized it and it made sense, or if you actually experienced these realities. In which case, if you havent experienced what you speak of directly would again in my book make you a hypocrite.

Of course Im not out to attack you. Just out to figure out the motivation and logic with which you speak. You see the things you speak of are both mystical and universalist in nature. I have nothing against what you say and there is much truth to it, but partial

But I will say, the way you describe your experience of God sounds like its still out of ego and having only realized God's Omni-presence. These are experiences that one can have on Shrooms or Acid and have some of these aspects revealed or realized.

But without the Love.....forget it. God is Love. All these concepts or realities you speak of are lacking and are a side-door unfulfilled approach to God if there is no Love.... the kind of Love you get when the Holy Spirit is completely indwelled in you.

You can realize everything as God, i.e. his omni-presence and still maintain your own ego which blocks a deeper fulfilling relationship with God. When the ego is still there, then when its more..... "oh, ok.... I get it, everything is exactly as it should be. I guess I'll just chill then, and still get my respect."

But you see, with that notion. Everything is exactly as it should be as far as God goes....... but as far as we go, everything should be exactly as it should be in Love. It's this infinite Love that does miracles, wonders, helps, spreads more Love, breaks the chains, awakens, moves, motivates, and is active.

Omni-presence which you speak of, just is. It isnt one way or another. There is no motivation in Omni-Presence itself. It's all about experiencing God as infinite Divine transcendent Love which completely kills/destroys the ego. Then there is only Love, selfless acts, able to handle anything, no fear, no death, no disease, no anything....you become a complete vessel of Love moving through you and changing the world one person at a time.

Zen is just one small little tiny fraction of it. Love goes beyond zen, omni-presence, and everything else. Dont get stuck in this everything is God gist..... there is more beyond this. Thats Love.

Organized religion is all nonsense. It is doomed to implode because truth and reason always win in the long run.

For(Home)Country

but I believe that the bible was written exactly how God wanted it. Someone who claims that the bible is false, twisted and wrong, yet claims to believe in God is heresy IMO. That is a complete lack of faith in God to begin with. God inspired the bible to be written, and it says that we need to trust in the Bible and what it says if we want to live like a Christian.

Here is where it can get interesting: supposing that God let the Bible go in the direction he intended it to go, but not the Christian way?

Thank you for your civility!


JimBeam

To anyone that actually can think on their own, present die hard christians are the most bizarre and confused people on this planet at present time.

It's just too ridiculous to even talk to so called "Christians" anymore. It's even more ridiculous to even discuss the topic.

Yes, but you have to give them credit for trying! I used to be one and can certainly relate. But...I never really felt part of the "Borg!"


Amaterasu

Wow. Given the information in the OP here... You seem to have a special line on which version might be the "true" one... I mean, you say, "I will stick to the bible. he made it exactly the way he wanted," but I wonder which version that is?

Given the fact that the KJV has some of the most mistakes of all, and that it is just a version, and was never considered a translation!

My thoughts are: the Bible has great validity but one must read between the lines. Read past the dogma and it can be quite interesting! Like looking for hidden clues that no one has found or are talking about.


NOTurTypical

You're kinda correct, the 'great persecution' the Christians will have to endure will be after the mid-point of the 7 year tribulation. When the antichrist makes mandatory the mark of the beast and the worship of his image.

That's the time when it says "brother will betray brother, father will betray son, and son will betray father."

What starts the 7 year tribulation is when Israel signs a 7 year peace deal with the antichrist enabling them to begin constructing the 3rd temple.

Obviously we aren't at that point yet in time. We are on the doorstep though.

Oh you think so! No sir, I believe you are incorrect. The GT has already started quite a while ago!

Jesus Christ - "I and the father are one"

Jesus Christ is GOD, "before Abraham was, I AM", "I am the Alpha and Omega",
"No one comes before the Father except through me".

If you are a minister you will be judged TWICE as hard, you're supposed to be leading souls to the Lord of Lords. Not telling the world that Jesus Christ is a liar.

Jesus most definitely stated he was God in the flesh. Even broken down to Greek still says the same.

We don't have the original Greek manuscripts, so you are guessing. Have you had access to the earliest manuscript copies of the NT, and have you read them?

Let's leave the very faulty doctrine of the trinity out of the thread. As I mentioned earlier, there is plenty of evidence that it was never part of the Bible to begin with! There are plenty of other threads where you can argue about this nonsense.


dominicus

However my dear friend, the truths and transcendent realities of God are timeless, they are not bound by change, time, influence, or anything else that affects the things you posted about. And these unchangeable truths/realities are the only permanence in a temporary world of temporay earthly existences. So with that said, what do you really think will outlast what?

Discovering what those truths and transcendent realities of God are, may be interpreted now more than ever, but we have to be careful to not get so caught up in the rhetoric that we miss the message!


Lethil

its going to be a tad harder for some scholars to sit in a room,write a book and proclaim it the word of a *new* God...The One you didnt hear about...

So it would be interesting if it came about in a different manner, wouldn't it?


moocowman

What is it with you deluded people ? If you want to go and shake something , shake a tree dude.

You are funny! We need the humor with this OP.

I'm begining to understand why the romans chose to round up the christians and do away with them.
Not out of vindictiveness it would seem but because OF the never ending "I AM right" and you should believe what I belive, is like having one of those stupid little dogs constantly yapping

Well, I have a stupid little dog that constantly yaps. But in this case I have a choice.


whiteraven2007

There has been a loss of true spirit communication for most Christians. The things I have learned over the years about what is and is not the Divine Nature and what is and is not true spirituality caused me to leave the Church and religion as a whole behind.

There is a big difference IMO between being religious and being spiritual. Once one has gained the wisdom to know the difference - you cannot go back. It is like returning to your vomit!


AshleyD

Thank you for posting even though we stand on different ground. By the way I like your avatar - only not the cross part! LOL!


NOTurTypical

I'll keep agreeing with Paul, God, and Jesus Christ Himself. Btw, calling the idea of the "trinity" pagan, is blasphemy. Just because Satan copied God's attributes when he founded his faux-religions doesn't mean that the Holy Godhead is "pagan".

You need to seek forgiveness for saying that.

Son, you need a divine talking to! Paul was a con-man and had little to do with Christ. The trinity is pagan along with the cross - both have phallic symbolism, and Satan may not be who you have been brainwashed to believe he is! Your self-righteousness is repugnant!


Sparkey63

It seems that rather than have a civil discussion you would rather resort to name calling and insults.

I hope that you will at least do some research on your own and examine carefully what you have been taught to make sure that your beliefs are in complete harmony with all other scriptures. Then and only then will you have reason to be confident in your beliefs.

Where are we to not cast our pearls? Just a reminder. Blindness comes in many venues with many faces.



To all: I reiterate, it is impossible to say what the divine words from God were, as he did not see fit, to see to it, that they would be transferred down - correctly. In the 17th century the scribes found approx. 30,000 mistakes in the NT. Modern day Bible scholars say it is upwards into the hundreds of thousands!

There can be no doubt amongst those of us who have diligently studied the Bible and often read it from cover to cover many times, that it is a divine book but one that may have a different message than we have formerly known. I have found it to change shape in these recent years and I hoped to discuss in an intelligent way all the facets that seem to have changed and new meanings that are coming forward. In my spiritual experience I have found this newness to be uplifting and freeing.

So if God wants us to learn his message, we would be wise to at least look at what he may be actually inspiring - now!

Originally posted by MatrixProphet
reply to post by Deaf Alien

 

The day that christianity finally disappear is the day I will jump in joy for people. We have been enslaved for too long.

Unfortunately, that wont happen any time soon. Just take a stroll anywhere and you will see churches every few blocks. You will see thousands and thousands of people going to churches, parking lots filling up every Sunday.

Christianity dying? Hardly.

Ah, how long did it take for some governments to go down? Watch, it will happen suddenly. Or it will appear to be sudden but all the signs are there!

What is the longest lasting government in history? Roman empire. It lasted for about 1000 years. Most governments lasted much shorter than that. They come and go. Yet they pale in comparison to other religions. Christianity lasted 2,000 years. If you include the Jewish religion, it is 6,000 years. Don't forget the other religions, especially Hinduism.

This is something I do not understand. I would think that common sense will prevail. I mean really, there is something that binding people to religion. In face, the very word 'religion' derived from a word that means "to bind"

This is obviously a conspiracy to keep people under control and to prevent them from empowering themselves.