Great thread Essence! I've run across these people before, but I think I have a sixth sense for detecting pyramid marketing schemes cause I always know in seconds that's what they are talking about. Seriously, this is the kind of conspiracy that we can actually fight. This thread is doing just that. Lets get the word out there and stop these criminals from expanding their family!

And you got my way above vote for this! Spent your own hard earned money to debunk them, that's awsome!

How cool is it that EE's post lingers on ATS (and in Google) and then Skedius finds it and it saves him from MLM hell? Awesome work on this EE. I am sure you have accomplished even more good than what is said here.

MLM is based on human capital. Essentially, when you approach a potential mark, you are thinking not just about that person, but their immediate friends and family. That's where the evil comes in; this type of greed motivated thinking in which other people's friends and family becomes a valuable commodity to be exploited. It's like MLM people want to suck your bone marrow. They make you prey on your support system (friends and family).

Also what you said about them harrassing you after you left. This is typical of any cultish system. Once you're in, you can't leave because you might threaten the group. Once you recognize the traits of cult systems, they can be spotted pretty easily. Really, people should see themselves as prey, because that's how a large percentage of humans view their fellow man.

If you see yourself as applesauce and your friends/family as porkchops, you'll start to understand the MLM'ers mindset.

I am so glad this thread has been brought back up. And that all of EmbryonicEssence hard work has saved someone else from going through this misery. I am voting you way Above Top Secret, EmbryonicEssence. Something I should have done when I first read this post. Great job in keeping us informed!

Wow, thank you Vasilis Azoth, smallpeeps, and earthmagick12 for all the great contributions. You are all so right: the more information there is on this topic, the better.

There are many websites about MLMs and their dangers but I suppose a thread can give a more personal touch to the subject - anyone can contribute, not just the individual who develops a website. Please, anyone who has or has had experiences with MLMs, share your story - or anyone who just wants to share their thoughts. Again, the more information that is available to people, the better.

Ok, I went to a quixtar meeting yesterday and I, to be honest found it very frightening, let me explain.

I was invited to go see this business opportunity through a friend of a friend, I was bored and said what do I got to lose, maybe there might be some good looking females.

he told me to dress nice.

I didn't, because WTF, why should I? I just wore jeans and a sweater.

anyways I went, and its basically what the original poster said. an hour with a speaker speaking of wealth and material things.

some things the speaker said raised some serious things.

first off, I noticed there was water in the lobby of the hotel, in jars and cups... strange.

I also noticed "generic" water bottles in the garbage, which after the meeting, realized it was quixtar water.

anyways, the 3 things he was selling, besides the company and this dream of wealth.

1) tooth paste
2) XS energy drink
3) a water purification system

he went on saying that bottled water is contaminated and we needed a state of the art purification system.

he said mentioned glister (tooth paste) and a selling point of buying for yourself and making money.

and he had in his hand, an XS energy drink. and how he gave it to his daughter and at school all the kinds wanted it....

anyways, I felt like this was a cult. because me, not being "dressed" up for this event, I stuck out. but what I found strange is many of these people in the meeting looked like very "school" educated people. I am educated to, went to college and all that but I am also street smart and been to jail. so its hard to run something by me.

but these educated people had a weird, look in their eyes, and the way they went about themselves like they were "high" on something.

I then went home, typed in 'quixtar scam" in google, and found out what this company is really about. (even though I already knew it was a scam)

Seems like, to me, this could be a CIA company using fluoride in their tooth paste, water, and drinks. It has to be, why else would people go for years and lose money and not know?

why the chant? why the weird look. the water that was on the table


what I am saying is, there could be alot more to quixtar then just getting people. I think maybe, they could be using chemicals to help with this mind control they do...

anyone notice these things?

I'm really enjoying this thread. Keep up the good work and research.

When I was still in college a kid who I was in Business class with was apparently a member of this group. At the time (late 90s) it was still called Amway though.

He must've approached me about 20 times over that semester, until I finally relented (mostly to shut him up) and allowed him to explain "the program". That stuck out the most. It was always referred to as "the program" never ever as Amway.

Anyways, the presentation was PRECISELY what was described in the original post. The guy had a white board with a marker and made circles and showed how quickly I could become rich. He also made sure to mention that I would never have to be anyone's employee, I'd call the shots in my life and I'd get to travel a lot.

Long story short, I ended up going to a "convention" or whatever, at some hotel near LaGuardia Airport to listen to the same crap but on a bigger screen and with a lot more people.

Of course a high level person was there, who pulled up in a 250,000 dollar RV and explained to us how crappy things were for him until he was shown "the program".

After the meeting the kid came up to me again and asked if I was interested in joining and I politely told him thanks for the invite but real life was calling and I had to rejoin it.

It felt like a recruitment camp for desperate dimwitted lazy people.

"Sit on your ass all day and make money by having other people sell detergent."

I'm sure it worked great for the people who founded it, but uh... no thanks man.

Glad I was smart enough back then to stay the hell out, and I guess the name change didn't change the tactics much... sleazy people...

Quixtar is Amway...it's Amway's incorporated name. It's a pyramid scheme, ponzy scheme, multi-level marketing scheme...whatever you want to call it. It's a con game and full of scam artists at the top and a lot of poor saps at the bottom brainwashed into believing they are going to make all kinds of money...when in fact they end up losing money....

My daughter was involved with it for a while......she's very gullible and it took a long time for her to wake up and realize she was being scammed. She got involved with alot of other con artist organizations for a while too. She was looking for quick money which is what they sell to these kids...they sell them the dream of becoming rich quick....and tell them not to listen to thier friends and family, etc......thus, it's also a cult!!

I was involved for about 3 years in Amway under the Bob Howard organization maybe 10 years ago and left at about the time of Quixtar launching. I’m not trying to defend Quixtar/Amway, just relating my experience. At the time I joined I was a diesel mechanic and knew I didn’t want to spend the rest of my life crawling over greasy trucks and smelling like diesel fuel. Not once was I ever told to lie or deceive. In fact from the top down we were told to be honest and up front. First off when you join you are legally considered a contracted distributor therefore an Independent Business Owner. I know its semantics to some of you. Yes, I presented myself as an IBO but when asked if it was about Amway I said yes and said I was a distributor. Amway was trying to get away from its negative early perception of door to door soap sales hence the deception that occur(s)ed by many people.

Several things in other’s experiences are contrary to my experience including EE’s. One thing that has stuck out is “tools”. Some on here have problems with being required to buy tapes, books & other things to help them (supposedly) become successful. As a diesel mechanic, I had to buy my own tools to perform my job and earn $11 an hour. I’ve spent thousands of dollars on tools and tool boxes. Additionally to progress at my trade, I had to further my education at my own expense, take ASE Certification tests at my own expense and miss time at work to take the ASE tests costing me more $$ just for a little more on the hour. Now, I said that to illustrate to be successful at whatever career or money making venture, there is a cost involved with learning how and performing. I had no problem with that. Again these are my observations only.

I left by not renewing my distributorship and was not harassed about it at all by my sponsor or direct distributor. I left because I did not want to put in the time and effort required to be successful and I wanted to pursue another career of greater interest to me.

That brings me to the next thing. I went to the seminars and dream weekends. I experienced much of what EE did. I think many people there were greedy just wanting as much money as they could get. I didn’t have the same feelings as EE. I have seen far stranger behavior at football games. People cheering for their heroes and the celebrities in this venture. Not so strange when you think about it. Many corporations hold rallies or quarterly business status meetings for their employees. One of my former employers held the latter. There was upbeat music playing before the meeting. There was recognition of employees’ performance and service to the company. There was applause acknowledging success. There was prayer at the end-of-year meeting before holiday break. All along with the informing the masses about business status and new things. This stuff happens in corporate America, why would it be any different? This same stuff is what I witnessed.

As an Amway Distributor I was brainwashed to do things their way so I would be successful. At my last employer, I was brainwashed to do things their way so I would be successful and advance my career. I followed their rules and procedures. I worked overtime as required. At my current employer I am being brainwashed so I will be successful and further advance my career. I follow their direction and do what is required to be successful including training on my own time to become proficient on new software, all to become successful. There are certain actions required to be successful in a given field. If you are not willing to do what is required, don’t expect much.

Everybody’s job is basically to motivate people to get more people involved. It works by helping those below you (your downline) succeed thereby assuring your success. Not really that hard to understand. In fact, you could be more successful than your sponsor. There was, if I remember correctly, an Emerald level distributor within the Howard organization who sponsored someone who went Diamond before his sponsor. I was at the rally when they announced it. Are some distributors doing things wrong? Obviously yes. These were my experiences and my observations. I’ve never had a problem with any of the people. Still friends with my sponsor. I suspect many people get involved thinking they’ll get rich quick. At the little hotel meetings I went to it was actually stated “If you’re looking for a get-rich-quick program, get up and leave now because this isn’t it. It WILL take work”. I think many didn’t know and weren’t told and their expectations were more of getting paid for doing little. I had a very ethical upline. Maybe the exception to the rule so to speak.

Two more examples of similar behavior. When I played football in high school, I had to buy football cleats, team color socks & elbow pads (tools). We had inside jokes, gestures, chants & behaviors. We had pep rallies. I had a play book I had to learn & memorize on my own time. I had to do things a certain way as directed by the coaches (my upline) to be successful. If I was successful, I could play college ball then pro ball or coach. These are all part of TEAM activities. I experienced again the same behavior while in the military. I bought my uniforms (tools). For those who don’t know, when you go to basic training, you are issued your uniforms and the cost is deducted from your first paycheck. Then throughout your enlistment you are required to maintain and replace your uniforms as needed at your cost. You do receive a very minimal clothing allowance but it’s not nearly enough to cover your costs. We had cadence chants. I spent a lot of my own time learning the required NCO stuff so I could earn a supervisor position. As I became successful I moved up in rank and position. I did what was required to be successful.

I am presently in process of starting an automotive business, something I’ve always dreamed of doing. I know I will invest far more of my own time, effort & sweat in this new venture than I have in any previous employment including what was required to be successful as a Quixtar/ Amway distributor. I’m sorry many have had a bad experience and were lied to or deceived. There’s no excuse for that in business. It’s the greedy and power hungry that taints a business. I would suggest that those who would call it a cult take a closer look at the world around you. This isn’t meant to defend Quixtar/Amway in any way, just my experience and my observations.

I want a Root Beer flavored Energy Drink, that's the basis for my arguement. I also enjoy my Apple Cobbler Meal Replacement Bars, as well as my Egyptian Jersey Knit Sheets that are giving me the best sleep that I've had in years. There are some advantages and disadvantages to the Quixtar company, but unless you actually go to investigate it yourself, you are going to see what I'm talking about.

The selling system is very simple. Your job is to sell products. If you sell a lot, you make money. If you don't sell, you don't make money. Perhaps that's the way that things should be. Quixtar pays you once you sell 100.00 PV in a given month, everything over that is a bonus. If you fail to reach 100.00 PV, then you won't get a check. The more people that you get below you, the better your chances of reaching 100.00 PV in a month (IF they sell their products).

It is not a pyramid scheme. You can make a lot of money with Quixtar, but you can also lose if you don't know how to sell your product. So far, the products that I have been given (and the few products that I have bought myself) are of high quality IMHO. I did not like all of the protein bars, but then again, I simply hate the protein bars that are out on the market. My conclusion was that their brand of protein bars (while not to my highest degree of liking) were still better than the brands available on the market.

Originally posted by petey_pongo23
It is not a pyramid scheme. You can make a lot of money with Quixtar, but you can also lose if you don't know how to sell your product.

Are the products so much better that the "losing" is worth it? Is it worth it for people that lose or are they chided that they didn't "sell well enough"?

Really, if the products are worth it then they'd be good enough to sell through retail channels but this would not allow the pyramid shape of the organization that pays kickbacks upward. Frankly, if a person wants to have a business where they sell retail type foodstuffs and lotions, etc, then they should simply do that in the normal way which is to deal with distributors as all retail stores do. People who pretend to be doing this by actually joining a "distributor" company with "downlines" and all that jazz, are joining a company designed for suckers and people who feed on them.

In Quixar as in all top-down selling schemes, it is essential that some people "lose" as you say, in order for the people at the top to "win". I think this is obvious when one looks at such companies dispassionately and with a critical eye. Any business you put your sweat and effort into can produce results, but pyramid companies that promise some kind of non-working-future goal, are clearly designed to profit from people's dreams.

TheTraveler: I liked your story and I am 100% certain you are on the right track with your personal business not connected to any leeches above you. Thanks for your comments.


[edit on 6-11-2006 by smallpeeps]

Originally posted by smallpeeps
Really, if the products are worth it then they'd be good enough to sell through retail channels.

My dad was an Amway zombie for several years. I even attended several meetings with him so I'm well aware of the cult-like appearance this orgainzation has. It is a bit creepy.

Being in "the business" my dad of course bought quite a bit of stuff from Amway. From my experience their products are mostly okay, but some are actually terrible. My worst experience ever was with Amway diapers. When my son was 8 months old my dad gave me a whole case of Amway diapers. The diapers were literally "crap". They would hold wetness, but anytime the kid and a bowel movement that was the slightest bit loose it would run out of the sides of the diapers. Some of the cheapest brands you could buy already figured out you needed an internal barrier to hold stuff in. Amyway didn't get it and I threw almost the entire case (a dozen or more packages). I don't even think I used the entire first package. It just wasn't worth it.

Meanwhile back at the meetings they're reassuring everyone that the products are great, and don't forget to buy the latest motivational tapes. They always stressed buying new tapes. I sometimes wondered if the entire thing was just a scam to sell motivational tapes.

[edit on 7-11-2006 by dbates]

Wow, EmbryonicEssence, you've released something from of the box with this thread, lol.

There must be millions of people still out there, trying to climb the Amway/Quixstar stairway-to-heaven. And must be just as many whose instincts told them to stay away or get-out.

Several years ago, a niece and her husband came to call. We hadn't heard from them in years and now here they were, smiling fixedly and saying how they'd just felt motivated to put their small children in the car and drive 600 kilometres just to see us. It felt weird from the start.

They didn't really want to talk about old-times or future-times. They weren't interested really in hearing how our lives were going. And when we asked about theirs, they hinted they had a big secret for us, once dinner was through.

Later that night, they began talking about their brilliant future with Amway and how they wanted us to have a brilliant Amway future too. Uh huh.

They rattled off a couple of hours of weirdness, still with the religious-convert expression on their faces. They must have been dog tired and we suggested they grab some sleep ...... but no ..... they preferred to discuss Amway. That's how we learned about this strange marketing thing they were involved in which (unless we'd heard them incorrectly) involved pearls, diamonds and ... weirder still .... people they claimed to know who WERE 'pearls and diamonds' etc.

Now this young couple had a lot of ambition. They lusted for the good life, a materialistic life. Their eyes glazed when they envisaged their luxurious future, courtesy of this Amway business. Prior to their Amway-conversion, they'd dabbled in Pentacostal religion and speaking in tongues; they'd tried to set themselves up as rock-stars and they'd attended university with the intention of gaining power, authority and riches as members of the clergy. In retrospect, it's clear they had a cult-style mindset.

The niece dragged out a make-up case mid-way through this very odd discussion (during which they sounded similar to tv evangelists) and insisted on applying Amway make-up on our daughter, who hated the stuff. Maybe it's an Amway belief that physical touching will turn people into converts? Didn't work, in any case.

Next morning, my daughter passed my niece in the hallway and gave her a big smile --- and then froze in disbelief. My niece apparently responded with a hideous snarl. It chilled my daughter to the bone. Only a few hours earlier, the niece's face had been an ear-to-ear grin as she'd waxed enthusiastically about Amway. Now, she looked like something from one of the bad scenes in The Exorcist. We couldn't wait for our 'Amway Representatives' to leave.

As they were leaving, my niece's husband -- whom I'd met only once before and who was about 18 years younger than I --- pressed himself to me in a full-length body-hug, under the pretence of saying good-bye. He had a weird expression on his face, as if he were trying to be Amway's answer to Uri Geller or something. I think he imagined that this intimate body-contact would 'bond' me to him and propel me into Amway. I felt embarrassed for him and annoyed by his presumption.

Shortly afterwards, the neice and her husband sent us a boxload of Amway tapes with instructions to listen to them because it would be the solution to all our problems, financial and other. We did listen to a few. And we did attend an Amway 'session' or whatever they are, at an upmarket venue.

There was lots of talk about pearls and diamonds, etc. etc. and encouragement to join this road to riches. Strangely, none of the Amway faithful looked as if they had as much in their pockets as we did.

We gave it thought. As advised by the Amway people and my niece and her husband, we drew up a list of those we knew. We had a five minute rush of excitement and enthusiasm before we felt sick, basically. What were we doing? We were combing through our friends and associates in order to USE them, simple as that. Because in order to climb the alleged ladder to success, we needed to find suckers (friends and associates) whom we could use as stepping stones or rungs on the ladder. Yuk! Shudder. Cringe all over. Goose flesh. Revulsion. Distaste.

We decided we didn't like the Amway philosophies and were ashamed we'd even considered it. Blind greed is what it's all about, combined with preparedness to ditch your principles at the same time you professed to hold some.

I became quite angry. Maybe when you're de-toxing after an Amway poisoining, anger is the only way to free the spirit. Whatever the case, I remember writing to my niece and her husband for an entire afternoon, explaining in triplicate why we wouldn't be joining Amway and why we found it to be such a disgusting philosophy.
I wrote like someone possessed, by hand, and the pages just flew by.

We'd been receiving numerous long-distance calls from my niece and her husband ever since they'd departed our place. I guess part of the Amway philosophy is 'hook them in before they go off the boil '. They couldn't afford the expensive phone calls to us, I knew, but they must have believed we'd swallowed their spin and were trying to reel us in, and 'hang the expense'.

Until they received my epic letter. That was the end of their interest in us and we've never seen or heard from them again. They didn't make it big in Amway apparently.

I imagine there must be thousands, millions of Amway enthusiasts who are sucked-into the Amway machine -- used -- disillusioned -- and then spat out of Amway's rear-end like excreta. And as they're spat out, further millions (with pearls and diamonds in their eyes) are being sucked-into Amway's drooling mouth.

We were amongst the lucky-ones. It felt 'wrong' and grubby to us from the start. Our instincts saved us. Others less fortunate ignore their instincts or override them out of desperation and the quest for riches.

We've been approached by other Amway cult-members since. They all have an unreal gleam in their eye --- they look at you but they're actually looking at something behind you (their Pearl or Diamond status I suppose). They're almost as hard to get rid of as the Dianetics mob.

The scariest part of the Amway ordeal was my niece's Jekyll and Hyde transformation in the hallway ! *That's* what it can DO to you ! Brrrrrrrr -- scarey !!

Originally posted by smallpeeps
Are the products so much better that the "losing" is worth it? Is it worth it for people that lose or are they chided that they didn't "sell well enough"?

In Quixar as in all top-down selling schemes, it is essential that some people "lose" as you say, in order for the people at the top to "win". I think this is obvious when one looks at such companies dispassionately and with a critical eye. Any business you put your sweat and effort into can produce results, but pyramid companies that promise some kind of non-working-future goal, are clearly designed to profit from people's dreams.

The people from the upline won't make money if the people below them don't sell the products. The way to have a "non working-future" as you put it is to get other people interested in the selling part of the business below you. There can be huge web of people underneath one line, but if nobody is selling anything, then nobody is making money. The people in the upline may be getting onto their sponsored IBOs because they aren't making them money. Basically, it's a microcosm of our society. Making money from having others work is a nice idea, if you can trick enough people into doing it. Seriously though, I just want my Root Beer flavored energy drinks...

-Van-

Run

Wise Chinese economist says, 'More money going out, than comming in, bad for business.'

MLM is an economically unsound business model. Think about it. You need money comming in to make it in any business. In an MLM your money comes from your group. For those of you who don't get it, that means you. I suppose if you have the patience to stick it out while you bled cash for years you might make it.

It is a cult because they prey upon people's inexpience, gullibility and desire to succeed. They will also lie to you to convince you that they want you to succeed, that they aren't an MLM, etc.

Run forest Run

[edit on 9-11-2006 by In nothing we trust]

This thread never ceases to amaze me. My last post was in June and the thread started picking up again in October.

I've just read through all the posts since June and I have to thank everyone for contributing their experiences and thoughts.

digitalchemical: I definitely experienced similar emotions and thoughts. I'm not sure if it has anything to do with fluoride and the CIA (interesting thought though :-D), but there are definitely certain drugs being used to their fullest - endorphins and other happy hormones. Hope and greed are a terrible combination. If an individual is stricken by that combination, they are, unfortunately, very susceptible to these types of things.


infinite8: Thank you for the compliment . . . you were referring to me right? ;-) If not, I'm sure whoever you were referring to thanks you as well.


Djarums: I really don't know how many times I heard the same "sad" story from so many of the gem-people (I'm going to refer to them as that from this day forward, lol), albeit in a slightly different context. I'm glad you came back to real life.


Excitable_Boy: They definitely tell you not to listen to your friends and family members. I'm glad your daughter finally came around. I hope that she's left that stuff behind her. I notice you put Sedona, AZ as your location; I'm sure you have plenty of stories about the cults in that area. ;-)


TheTraveler: I'm glad your experience went well. My experience wasn't bad per se, but my alert mechanism goes off when I see 95% of a crowd with a glazed look over their eyes and a blank stare - not something I normally see at a gathering for a large company.

Sports games are also a strange affair; the same mechanisms that propel sports fans to do certain things are probably the same things propelling individuals of a cult/group to do certain things. The difference, however, is that most sports fans aren't going to use you to make a buck - the game is far more important. I'm not saying that money isn't made off of sports, but most fan-made bets are friendly. They both share passion, but the difference is in their execution of it. Sports fans are passionate about the life of the game and the characters that go along with it. On the other hand, the passions of cults and certain groups usually comes from the hope of personal gain. I'm not saying that all the individuals are like that, but sometimes its hard to tell when a good portion of them are more concerned about them telling you their "secret" then asking how you're doing.

Must individuals buy products to learn their trade? Most definitely. No one will argue with you about that. However, how many tapes/CDs/books must an individual buy just to hear the same thing told over, and over, and over again? Tools are there to be reused time and time again. One should not be required to purchase the same tool, again, unless the tool is broken. If the tool breaks many times over, then it was probably made that way so people would be inclined to purchase it many times over; it's a great way to make a buck, unfortunately, not for the naive individuals who continue to buy it.

The thing that will always stick with me the most is when me and my sponsor were at one of the large Quixtar events and he was looking at a certain part of the structure (mechanical in nature) of the stadium we were in (the Scope). This man, at one time, was a mechanical engineer. He commented (it's probably not exact, but it's extremely close to how I remember it), "I like looking at that stuff and trying to figure out how they did it . . . but I really don't remember any of it anymore." The sad part is the fact that he was serious. He had only been involved with Quixtar for a few years. He quit his well-paying job to devote all his time to Quixtar, and possibly lost useful knowledge in the pursuit of the ever-loving dollar. Did he have anything to show for it? Only the money he had made before Quixtar. That's the key. If a sponsor claims they are making gobs of money, the odds are, they aren't. Any glitz they show you is usually from prior money, or they are using everything they have to put on a good show.

I knew it wasn't right when I got involved, but my curious disposition provoked me to investigate further. When you start thinking about involving friends and family, for personal gain (even if you tell yourself that it will benefit them as well), you know there's something seriously wrong with that situation; although I briefly thought about it, I could see through the BS from the beginning. But even the strongest willed can be tempted by the faintest scent of hope - you can make yourself believe.

I'm glad you're on your way to creating your own business. Maybe one day I'll get to that point as well.


petey_pongo23: The money is definitely there, but to gain access to it, everyone and their mother must be used like toilet paper; but there is also that little thing about Quixtar not always paying out all the money it owes certain industrious individuals (to stay at the top, in a scheme like Quixtar, you must perform questionable acts). As far as a Root Beer flavored energy drink goes, I'd try it!


smallpeeps: I agree. If a product is that "good," it shouldn't require "Independent Business Owners" to push it - it should sell itself.


dbates: There was a Dateline investigative report about Quixtar a few years ago. It showed, on video, almost everything I described in my first post. You're right about the tapes (CDs and books included - anything that broadcasts the "secret"). One of the gem-people, an ex-Diamond, admitted that that is the secret to becoming a gem-person. If you push it hard on the people you sponsor, you get some change out of it (since they are usually the items with the highest markup, which isn't saying much if you've seen their catalog). Get them to buy, get the people that they sponsor to buy. Quixtar has to limit the "wealth" somehow and that's where the questionable "paychecks" come in. ;-)


Dock6: Thank you for your extremely detailed story. I experienced that same snarl when I told my sponsor that I decided to hold off of Quixtar, indefinitely. He tried to get me to change my mind, but I don't let go of my will for just anyone. Luckily he did uphold his oath that he would refund the money I had payed to become an "IBO." It was rather kind, since that wasn't a Quixtar thing - it was his own personal thing. After that, we went our separate ways. Although a few months later he did email me to ask if I had finished doing what I needed to do. I never responded. :-)

I'm glad the niece and husband haven't come around to preach the "gospel" again. It's sad that they even reached that point of desperation. I hope they come back to the real again.

You guys stayed true to yourselves and I admire that greatly.



In nothing we trust: You speak the truth! :-)



Alright, well, I need to get some shuteye. I've got some real life work to do in the morning. ;-)

We as common people find ourselves employed in a given career. For the most part we accept a job for as much money as we can get. For my current job, I told them how much salary I needed and got it (5K more a year than my previous job). I'm generalizing here as there are circumstances and exceptions. We daily strive for advancement, more money and more power, athority, status. Anybody turn down a raise or a promotion? I would venture to say that if it worked in a conventional business, many would behave in the same manner as these aspiring business people. Quixtar/Amway does not do things conventionally. It also seems that most of those involved have had no business training whatsoever and act out of emotion instead of as the professional bussiness people they profess to be. I'm just saying, in my experience, there's not much difference between what they do and what typical corporations do. Different methods, different level of professional experience.

By the way, I loved their laundry prewash spray. It was the only thing I have found before or since that could remove all the grease and grime from my clothes. I now spot treat with hand cleaner (gojo, fast orange, etc).

I have been to one of the Primerica meetings. They are part of the Citibank umbrella. Pyramid scam for insurance sales, with a 2nd seminar fee of...just like you said...$200. I was also approached about a month ago by someone from Quixtar. He said they were a web based business development company. Offered to buy me a cup of coffee at a Starbucks, and proceeded to tell me all about the wonderful world of becoming your own business powerhouse blah, blah, blah. Poor guy was already about two years into his brainwashing. He was expecting to make about $250K at the 5 year mark. Whatever one wants to believe, right? He told me that I could make 40 to 60 thousand more dollars per year and still keep my job. (for only about 10 to 15 hours of work per week) Right, and I can fly.

The selling system is very simple. Your job is to sell products. If you sell a lot, you make money. If you don't sell, you don't make money. Perhaps that's the way that things should be. Quixtar pays you once you sell 100.00 PV in a given month, everything over that is a bonus. If you fail to reach 100.00 PV, then you won't get a check. The more people that you get below you, the better your chances of reaching 100.00 PV in a month (IF they sell their products).

It is not a pyramid scheme.

Really...talk about contradicting yourself! You describe a pyramid scheme and then say its not a pyramid scheme. The only people making money with Quixtar ar the few people at the top. All the zombies at the bottom are making nothing.

Plus, Quixtar makes people pay to use an office. There's little satellite offices all over the country and in order to have a desk, phone, etc to sit at...you have to pay for it. Plus you are pressured into buying the stupid motivational tapes and people are pressured to go to seminars all over the country at thier own expense. Most people that have ever been involved in Quixtar have spent moe money in a month that they have earned.

It's a pyramid scheme...a con game and the only ones laughing are the people at the top. They are alughing all the way to the bank.

I have to ask the poster who I quoted above. Have you ever heard of a guy named Bill Gouldd?? If it rings a bell....let me know!