What is Quixtar? You Have to See it for Your Self... Or Look the Other Way and Run! ;)

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posted on Mar, 17 2004 @ 04:43 PM
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Quixtar is a business but I see it shares many same qualities as a cult. Such as the ways they get new recruits, the way they communicate amongst themselves (they're better than you because they "just know"), and the way they treat you if you don't buy what they are selling. There are other qualities and some of it is explained below. Conspiracies in Religion & Spiritualism is the only thread I could think of putting it
in.

This information isn't meant to be articulate and is presented as it is. I'm not trying to win any awards, lol.
Some things are repeated and some of it may not be exact (most of it is off the top of my head, from what I can remember and some of it could just be that I am remembering what has been told to me by countless "successful" IBOs - anything they have said could have been a bunch of BS to blind you from the real outcomes of most at Quixtar or they just don't know themselves and are just repeating what they have been told (only a very minor few probably
actually make any money from it). I'm sure there are a well meaning few that actually believe it all, but they are probably allowing themselves to go on the ride with
their eyelids shut), but it does give you a pretty good picture as to what type of company Quixtar is and how it can change people - literally. Almost like a brainwashing program. Also, Quixtar isn't the only company like this, its just one of the largest.



Alright,
For those of you who don't know what Amway is, read through these following links (or not - I explain a lot of
whats in the links down below, although 95% of it is off the top of my head, as mentioned above, and doesn't come directly from the links. For even further info that I might not get into with this information below, I'll try and answer any questions, or just follow the links I have provided).

en.wikipedia.org...
www.rickross.com...

This is a thread about Quixtar, but to understand Quixtar, you need to understand Amway because they are one and the same thing. Here is a link to some info on Quixtar:
en.wikipedia.org...

Quixtar is essentially the internet version of Amway (although there was a HUGE change in structure with Quixtar and the way that it works) and Quixtar since its inception has replaced Amway in all of it's North America operations (Amway still exists though). "Alticor" owns the Quixtar and Amway businesses. Two very wealthy "families" came together to create Amway (Alticor and Amway are interchangeble, hence I will only refer to Amway), the deVos' and the van Andel's, particularly Rich deVos and Jay van Andel (as cited in the Wikipedia article) - this of course is true. Towards the dawn of the internet age, the cofounders decided that they needed a new way to market and distribute
their materials, that idea became Quixtar.

As I've said, Quixtar works the same way as Amway does except everything can be done by way of the internet - the advertising on the other hand, there really isn't any. The first rule of Quixtar is that you (works kind of like the movie/book "Fight Club") DON'T talk about Quixtar, the second rule, you DON'T talk about Quixtar, the third rule, follow the first two. So how do they get what I like to call "victims?" Well, when you're an "IBO" ("Independant Business Owner") in the Quixtar business, you have to seek them out. How do I know this? Because I was found by an "IBO" and joined up to do some more investigating, you know, "fun" stuff for an 18 year old.

You are "trained" to seek out people that "seem to be looking for something." So essentially, you look for the
person that "looks lost" - thats the only way I can put it. I guess I fell into that criteria, or I'm just an extremely attractive person.
So, from this point I will go into a little story as to how I became a Quixtar "IBO"
(A very... poorly written story I might add : ).

I was working at an electronics retail store (won't say which) one day and I noticed a guy looking at the digital
cameras. I did what my job requires me to do and went to ask him if he needed any help. He was looking for a
standard "run of the mill" snapshot digital camera. So I went into the details of each and every digital camera,
from the least expensive to the most expensive. We talked for a long time and then he started asking me peculiar questions such as: "Do you like working here?" "Do you live in this area?" "What school did you go to?" "Do you know what you want in life?" "Do you have many friends?" "Are you satisfied with your life?" "Do you want to change your life?" Crap like that.

I asked him what he did, he told me he's an "Independant Business Owner" and game me his card. I saw the card and asked him who he worked for. He said, "No one, I work for myself, as it says, I'm an Independant Business Owner." I looked at him more closely and I knew that I wasn't buying it. He did explain what "his" business entails, but never got into the details, he remained very vague (as they are taught) And then he said, "You look like a person who
want's to change your life. Here, listen to this tape. I will be back in two days to pick it up. After you have
listened to the tape and if you like what you hear, I will take you to the next step." I know some strange stuff
when I see it, so, as I've been taught by my parents, I went along with it to learn more about it and to investigate the inner workings of the strange. The man left and I had a tape.

So, what did I do? I listened to part of the tape - I wasn't going to waste an hour listening to the whole thing. I can't remember who was talking on the tape, but I do know what he was talking about. He was talking about how life had dealt him a bad hand and how he came to be successful by finding Bill Britt (as in Britt WorldWide, AKA: BWW - which is partners with Quixtar and Bill Britt has close relations with the owners). Then he goes on about how after becoming so successful and now that he is a multi-millionaire he can do anything he wants. Such as the time he didn't like how his children were being taught at their school and decided to buy the whole school and make it into a
private one. You know, "motivational" crap rooted into the almighty dollar. Thats about when I got tired of
listening to the tape.

Two days went by. I was at work and the "IBO" man came in to talk to me and get his tape. He asked me if I liked what I heard, and of course I said "yes." He then asked me, "Do you want to be an 'IBO' and never have to work for anyone again?" I said, "Of course!" FYI, I'm not typing out his exact words, but they are close enough.
Than he replied, "Well, are you doing anything tonight? If not, I can come over to your house if you like and explain how it works." And I responded with, "Nope, I'm not doing anything to night, here's my address, phone number, etc..." And with that, I worked and went home.

The "IBO" man came around my place at about 7pm. He brought in a one of those marker based drawing boards and a few pamphlets and other things. He wanted my Uncle to be down there too to learn about "his" business. He than set up his drawing board and began to make a speach and answer questions. His explanations of the business came through crude drawings on the board. He called it a "multi-level marketing" program. He was a distributor (IBO). If I were to join up he would be my "sponsor" or what they call "uplines" and I would have the option of becoming an IBO or member. I would of course have to pay money to become a member or an IBO. As an IBO I get a nice little card that says I'm an "IBO." If I chose not to become a member, I would be able to buy things from the Quixtar catalogs at a "discounted" price and earn Q-Credits on purchases made through partner stores (to go towards things in the Quixtar catalogs). As a client I have the ability to purchase all Quixtar products (which includes anything you can name) at
regular prices but the membership is free.

As an IBO, I have the same access to products, but at a "wholesale" price. In reality though, their "wholesale"
prices are usually more expensive than retail prices. I decided to pay the 60 or 80 bucks required to become an IBO (money wasted but for greater reasons : ). You're still required to renew your membership at the same price yearly as it is not a lifetime membership. Quixtar uses a point system (again, if you read all the Amway information, you'll get all the same info). You are "recommended" (more like required) to buy only products from Quixtar as an IBO to "help" yourself accumulate points. Quixtar works on a point system. The more points you have, the more money that Quixtar sends you each month - it's not much by any means, you have to have hundreds of members, clients, and
IBOs beneath you (downlines) buying products and gaining members, clients, and IBOs for themselves (if they are IBOs) to make enough points to get by. Quixtar also has a level system (Amway info links). You reach a certain level by specific point levels. At the top you have your Triple Diamonds, Double Diamonds, Diamonds. Anything not Diamond is either a Ruby, Emerald, Sapphire, etc... All people in Quixtar get those titles (there are more gems I believe, but I can't remember them at the moment - and some of the Diamonds I think actually have some different titles). Then you have your metal groups, Platinum, Gold, Silver, etc... You also have what is called "Going Eagle" (really just Eagle) which is when you have enough clients/members/IBOs to be of anything useful to the company. There are other levels, but I can't remember them off the top of my head. Here is an "okay" diagram I made of the levels I have listed - it shows you how the pyramid works.





They get you into the business by telling you that you're not actually doing any work (and many other things). The fact is, to get to a point in the business where you are making enough money to quit your old job, takes a lot of work. They tell you you can do it in your spare time. The truth is, if you want to get up to the top in a
reasonable time frame, you have to spend ALL your time doing it. The money is there, but to get to it you have to be very deceiving, especially to yourself. Diamonds have the ability to be making millions of dollards a year. Rubys, Emeralds, Sapphires, etc... They can be making hundreds of thousands of dollars. Platinum can make about a 150k or more per year (if done right). Gold should be making about 100k per year or more. And Silver is usually under 100k per year. You also have bonuses that you can achieve, "depth" (how many people on one leg of your downline) bonuses, "leadership" bonuses, "level" bonuses, etc... These are just averages (this is what they tell you to get you motivated, the fact is, the checks probably don't look like that), it still depends on how much work you're willing to do - you have the ability to achieve much more (supposedly), most people don't achieve anything because the fact is, it is really hard to do any of this and most of the time, impossible.

You have to find someone, get them interested, then ask them for names of people who might be interested in the same thing (they could be relatives, friends, associates, etc). They will usually shun you if you get out of the business (because if you leave, they won't be getting any points from you, so their time would have been wasted on someone and that time turned to nothing) - of course they don't call it a business, its a "family."

Clients don't usually bring in too many points, because it still depends on how much they purchase from the Quixtar catalog each month. Members on the other hand can bring in quite a bit. Since they are paying a fee to "save" money and such, they are more obligated to buy things from the catalog and in return give you more points. IBOs are still the best thing to have though (at least thats what they want you to think, I'm kind of partial to having loyal customers, it makes more sense). The more IBOs you have, the better chance you have of making it within Quixtar. More is good when you are doing this because some of the IBOs you get will become uninterested after a period of time
- the ones that flourish and get many new members/IBOs/clients are the ones you want to keep, if they go up in level, so do you (supposedly). And the more IBOs you have that are active, the more benefits for yourself. And the more benefits to you, the more benefits for your sponsor, as well as your sponsor's sponsor, and so on (supposedly). You have to invest in your own materials (tapes, info packets, sample products, etc..) to distribute to what could become
new members/IBOs/clients (you technically spend more on that junk per month than you actually make, so you're losing money, not making it - although you do have to spend money to make money, just not that way). I think it would make more sense to have a loyal member and client base - the more they buy, the more points you accumulate. IBOs on the other hand you have to help out and earn their loyalty (they don't teach you to earn it though, but to expect it - very poor leadership skills) and show them the business and that takes a lot of time, money, effort, and energy (the only people probably gaining anything from it really are those at the top of Quixtar). Members and clients on the other hand, once you've got them to like the products, there isn't exactly much you need to do after that.

As I said before, you have to use Quixtar's products and speak nothing but good about them (even if they are horribly bad - which can be said about most, although some are quite good, but there is no inherent value, as they are overpriced) - a lot of people really believe in this though. Whats the reason? Its the discontent person's way out of the real world. Once you go into Quixtar, I can say it is truly a totally separate reality from the real world. Quixtar is shown as the "easy" way out and many people follow, unfortunately. Let me get back to my poorly written story to explain more.


After the "IBO" man came over and we set up my IBO membership on www.quixtar.com. (Go there, its nothing really. You can check out what they offer as well as how to become a member/IBO/client - you have to have a person's "IBO" number and name to become an IBO, and money. Clients and members are a different case, you only get points from them if you sign them up and they use your own IBO number and name - you do it this way if they don't want to be an "IBO." Although anyone can become a Quixtar member or client without using your number on the Quixtar website - it's just
that people won't usually hear of the website unless, you, as an "IBO", told them about it). After becoming an IBO he told me a date that I had to be free on to go see a presentation for new IBOs. When that date arrived, we made a journey to a Double Tree Hotel in Fairfax, VA. Once there, we walked into the hotel and made our way to a presentation room. There was probably about 30 people there. After my sponsor (won't use "IBO" man anymore: ) introduced me to quite a few people, we then sat down. A couple minutes later, the lights dimmed, and a video was
popped in and on the projection screen we got to view the propagandistic work of Quixtar. The video was around 15 minutes long. It was there to beat into your head that you aren't happy working your day-to-day jobs and that your sick of having a boss, so why not be your own boss and not have to worry about employees, inventory, margins, etc.. AND let Quixtar do all that work for you (supposedly). There were a few more things in the video, but thats the crutch of it.

After the video, the lights came back on and we had to sit through a few presentations by different people. The presentations were the same things my sponsor had showed me previously. Everything in Quixtar is repeated over and over and over again to condition you - so that you never forget and that the same technique is used over and over again to gain new members/IBOs/clients. I must mention that my sponsor was a Silver level at the time. I must also mention that you don't go through each level in any set order (if do enough work). You can go from a Silver all the way to Platinum without ever having gone to Gold. So, the gathering ended and I was finally able to escape the hot and stuffy room.

A week or so later I was invited by my sponsor to go meet "our" Double Diamond upline - John Crowe. I had to drive to some warehouse area off I-95 in Northern VA (I think it was in Springfield, I can't remember). It took me a while to find the building because it was behind so many warehouses and other buildings. Once I found the building I saw the name of it. It said "Crowe Dream Builders," if I recall. Standing outside of the building were many "elder" IBOs and their newly indoctrinated IBOs. We waited about 30 minutes or so for John Crowe. When he arrived, he arrived with a large applaud by all the "elder" IBOs and "his" own theme music pumping from his new Lexus (I don't remember the model name, I looked on Lexus' website and the closest thing I could find is an SC 430 - I even remember trying to find the model he was driving on the Lexus website back then, and I couldn't find it then, it could have been a Lexus import, one that isn't available in the US). We soon entered the building and walked up some stairs to a large warm presentation room. Everyone had a seat and there was a projection system right next to where John Crowe would soon sit.

John Crowe is one of the Amway/BWW originals. He worked his way up decades ago. Another thing thats seems to be interesting about Quixtar is that once you're on top, you stay on top (at least thats what they want you to think, the reality is quite different). We of course were told the "sad" tale of John Crowe by Crowe himself (Are you beginning to see a pattern? Remember the tape I listened to?). Well, there was one part that did kind of suck. When he did make it to the top and was accumulating massive amounts of wealth, his house was broken into over a decade ago and he was shot in the head (I think it was the head). After being shot he somehow lost the function to hold in his emotions and as such he is almost on the verge of crying most of the time (which makes for passionate
speeches and great manipulation of the minds of the many). He also lost the ability to stand for very long and as such usually is mobile through a wheel chair. Well, during his speech he almost cried a few times. We then watched a video about the "working" man and the man who doesn't have to worry about work again (John Crowe). The focus of most of the video was of John Crowe and all the amazing places he gets to visit (because of money and not having to "work") and his accumulation of "things." Such as land, and how he went from a "regular" house to a gigantic mansion. And of course, the film transitions from images of bliss to a ticking clock (signifying how much the "working" man worries about the time). It shows him flying in his private Cessna jet and going to a place in Hawaii
that only high level IBOs of Quixtar get to go (all paid for by Quixtar, supposedly the higher level IBOs don't have to pay cent). You have a Diamond Club, an Emerald Club, a Ruby Club, etc... The clubs are only for the gems.

After the video we listened to Crowe some more and then many new IBOs were asked to introduce themselves (including me), stuff like: where they came from, where they see themselves going, etc... After everything was wrapped up,people had the option of staying a little while longer and talking to John Crowe. I must say there was a weird energy in that room. It just wasn't comfortable for me. I could feel something, I just couldn't pinpoint it. After talking to John Crowe (wasn't much to say, there were too many other people), I soon left.

A few weeks went by and then I got a phone call from my sponsor. I was to go to a house in Fairfax to meet with a Ruby level IBO. Of course, it wasn't just going to be me. It was a small gathering of about 15 people - all of them fairly high up. The house was one of those standard 700 hundred thousand dollar houses they have all over Fairfax, VA. The gathering was in the basement - a very long basement. We talked about Quixtar of course, it's current product line and some new products that had just come in. One of the topics of course was this "miracle" clothing detergent. It was one of those solid based detergents that you throw into the laundry and it dissolves. We were there just to learn about it and some other products as well as "different" approaches on getting new IBOs/members/clients. This meeting isn't of really any importance other than the fact that none of the people there had a real job anymore. Also, this is probably irrelevant, but when they asked me to talk about myself and the first thing I noticed when I came in there that night, I told them how I noticed I was the youngest person there and some of them seemed a slightly offended. They "corrected" me and said that I was younger and that they were not older, that say for instance, most of them were 50 years "young." This isn't such a big deal, except that they didn't want
me to see them as being older, so, they "corrected" me. After I wasted most of the night there listening to people talk and talk and talk about the same thing, I left.

Now, just a few days went by and I received another call from my sponsor. I was to attend the spring seminar with my sponsor and his sponsor. The spring seminar is one of the two gatherings Quixtar/BWW have each year down in Norfolk, Virginia at the Norfolk Scope Arena and Conference Hall. This is where any IBO and new IBO must go if they can make it. Tickets were around 60 dollars if I recall. The Norfolk Scope can sit 13,800 people - it is a siamese sister to Chrysler Hall. So, we headed down to Norfolk from Northern Virginia that weekend. It was about 60 dollars to stay
two days in the hotel my sponsor booked. Another 40 for food. The day we arrived in Norfolk we checked in at the hotel and went to the seminars later that night. There were probably 10-11,000 people there, easily. It took 30 minutes just to get in and seated. One thing I noticed is that most people there were Eastern Indian (you'll find out why in a bit). Here is a picture of the scope and a layout of it below (plus I have added in how everyone seemed to be seated).








The seminars start with a video usually playing on a screen. The video is of course a video about the person who will be speaking (usually someone who is at least Diamond level). The videos are almost identical in nature to how Crowe's video is laid out above - no need to explain them. After the videos are done, we are then introduced to the person who was in the video and everyone applauds. We then listen to their "sad" tale of woe. They tell you where they come from, what they did in their "previous" life, how it wasn't going anywhere, how their sponsor "found" them, how they succeeded, how good Quixtar products are, how good money is, etc... It doesn't matter who it is, it is all done the same way. The freakiest part is after any one of them talks, they usually have everyone stand up and do
this thing with their hands and they make a strange humming sound. First, the humming is a low tone (everyone in there does it). Then, while humming, everyone kind of spins their forearm in a rotary motion slightly over their head. After this is done for a period of seconds, they take their spinning forearm and moves the forearm to their heart, and then with an "heil hitler" motion, they shout out "FREEDOM." All that had me pretty disturbed, but the best was yet to come.

It turns out, the reason why there were so many Eastern Indians there is because Quixtar is "recruiting" most of their people in India and its easy to get people to join there (supposedly). One Eastern Indian is said to have gone to a Diamond level within a year (supposedly, although it could all be lies, in fact everything they say could be just that, lies or half-truths).

After a few of the higher level IBOs have talked, a band played directly after them. This band of course were made of IBOs from Quixtar (supposedly) - they played cover songs of Christian pop groups and every one in the Scope would stand up and cheer. I can't remember the groups name, but you can buy their music off of Quixtar's website. The group was made up of two females and two males if I recall. After the music played, it was back to more presentations. Thats how it was all layed out. So, after everything was done, I had almost had enough of everything but Sunday had yet to come.

Sunday was the day that everyone always waits for at these things, because "the Man" himself, Bill Britt (the highest level IBO there is, at least thats what "they" say : ) talks to everyone. Oddly enough though, Sunday is a mixture of chuch service and seminars. The religions are separated into different buildings and each "pastor" in both religious services is a Diamond. The Christians/Catholics services were situated in the Scope and all the others were in another stadium type building next to the Scope (I can't remember the name of it).

After getting situated in the Scope and waiting forever for something to start, we were presented with Bill Britt's video. It showed the 7 of the 20 or so estates/mansions he supposedly owns, his cars, his large multi-million dollar boats, and other crap. Soon, the video was done and Bill Britt stepped out from behind the stage to a loud cheer from the audience. Then it just got "fun" from there. He started to talk about "fire and brimstone" and sinners and this and that. He talked about how great Quixtar and BWW is for the wonderful things they have helped people do and how God wants you to be wealthy. He then started to talk about how he himself is great and how everyone one in the audience should work towards becoming a Diamond so they can travel to the Diamond Club and yadda, yadda, yadda. After he spoke, he had everyone do the (what I will call) "heil FREEDOM" gesture. Then a few more speakers and music breaks and the seminar was over. We returned to Northern VA that night.

A few days after that night I called my sponsor to say that I had to quit (this was my plan all along) and that I
couldn't do this anymore (its not like I really had done "anything" at all just yet, lol). He came over to get some materials he had loned me and wanted to go in depth as to what my reasons were. I didn't go into details with him of course. I just told him that I wanted to go to college (I was 18) and that this would take up too much of my time and I said maybe I'd come back to it later. After that comment, he then went on and on about how anyone who quits now never comes back, and this and that (he had some anger in his eyes, but thats more from losing the points I could make him than anything else). After he left a little angry he emailed me a few days later and said that maybe I would "change" my mind (he didn't want to lose a prospect and points now did he?) and that all I needed was a break. I never did respond. A couple months later I got an email from him asking, "Did you finish what you needed to do,
are you ready to come back now?" Didn't respond to that one either.

I haven't been involved with Quixtar/BWW for almost two years. Strangely enough though, I still get people coming up to me and talking casually. After a little while of casual talk they start telling me that they are looking for people "like" me. I ask them what they do and they can never quit seem to answer, lol. This is when I know. I ask them if they are with Quixtar and they start getting all giddy and asking me if I'm an IBO and who my "upline" is. After that I usually start making a few things up, like what level I am, who my "upline" is, etc... I have had 7 people in the past year alone come up to me and turn out to be from Quixtar! Somehow I attract them like flys on sh!t.

I still find Quixtar/BWW to be one of the strangest organizations I have ever known (althought it isn't the only organization like this, as I said in the beginning), and that not just from having been involved with it. I have found that Bill Britt is used as a fear inducer for all those "would be quitters of Quixtar." He is used to keep people afraid of quitting. He uses fear tactics such as: "You'll only be successful if you are a part of Quixtar and BWW team." "You're not going to live long if you don't give up what you're doing now and come do what we're doing." "God wants you to be wealthy, you're not going to be wealthy working under someone else." Things of that nature. Some things he said are just plain bad, but I can't remember them at the moment. He also mixes in religion to manipulate people even more. Over time they teach you how to do this. Once you reach a certain level you are required to make speeches (they say you aren't, but I've seen therwise).

You also have specific materials that you are required to read (you don't have to, but everyone will look upon you negatively if you can't talk about what they're talking about), watch, or listen to - and you have to pay for all the materials yourself. You have something like two tapes (sometimes more) and books a month that you have to read, videos can also be on the list. The tapes are always the same stuff, just with different people telling it. Remember how I said at the seminar they talk about their "sad" tales of woe, etc...? Well, the tapes are the recorded versions of those. There are new ones each month, mostly gem level IBOs, and again, its just their "sad" tales of woe and "rejuvenation." The books are usually just best selling (at the moment) "motivational" books. Some
of them are made by the higher ups of Quixtar itself. You want to know whats strange? From what I can tell, there hasn't been a new Diamond for many, many years. If it was that easy (like they say it is) to become a Diamond, why aren't there new Diamonds every few months, or years? Like I said above, you have to invest all your time, effort, money, and energy (probably sell your soul too) to achieve anything within Quixtar, although they'll tell you otherwise. I think you'd probably have to work as hard, if not harder, than any type of business you worked for previously, just to stay on top.

I just see some inherently wrong with this organization (and others like it). Some of you may not. You aren't really allowed to ask too many questions, if you can get an answer from your question, it is usually vague. I've met an awful lot of people involved with it and I get this feeling that they aren't really thinking anymore. They don't seem to have too many thought processes going on. All they talk about is what level their trying to reach, how much wealth they want to accumulate, the latest Quixtar product, etc... World problems aren't talked about much as well as local problems (it is very rare). These people aren't too concerned about the outside world. Everyone seems to be pretty self-centered. I think those are the types that work best with Quixtar - people who are self-centered. I really do
see this almost as a cult - a cult of materialism and wealth. It really seems like they are more concerned about wealth and material possessions than anything else in life. They talk and talk about other people's successes within Quixtar (especially the "almighty" Diamond IBOs) and the possessions and vacations and the bla, bla, bla. They seem to think that all these "things" would bring happiness, contentment, and fix any problems they currently have (including family ones), and we must not forget this "freedom" they always talk about. I really do see just a small
group of people at the top taking advantage of people's faith, family, love, hope, and dreams. That small group are probably the only ones making any real money. I was never more uncomfortable in my life than when I was in the Scope with all the "IBOs."

In my eyes it is indeed a giant pyramid scheme (although it is disquised because it does sell products and its not just a pool of money - I think otherwise : ) but I will cite from the wikipedia link why Amway didn't qualify as one in a 1970 ruling by the FTC:

Legal rulings
In a 1979 ruling, the FTC found that Amway does not qualify as an illegal pyramid scheme since the main aim of the enterprise is the sale of product. It did, however, order Amway to change several business practices and prohibited the company from misrepresenting the amount of profit, earnings or sales its distributors are likely to achieve. Amway was ordered to accompany any such statements with the actual averages per distributor, pointing out that more than half of the distributors do not make any money, with the average distributor making less than $100 per month. The order was violated with a 1986 ad campaign, resulting in a $100,000 fine. In 1983, Amway pleaded guilty to tax evasion and customs fraud in Canada, resulting in a fine of 25 million Canadian dollars, the largest fine ever imposed in Canada.

You don't usually hear about Quixtar (and others like it) because you have to be told about Quixtar by "word of mouth." There is no print advertising, no radio advertising, and especially no commercial advertising. It is all done by "word of mouth." That is why you don't hear about it. I'd also like to point out that they always use Ray Kroc and McDonald's as a franchise/business (it seems to be the only one they can give an example of) example of how Quixtar works - but you're the franchise.

Also, I'd like to cite this post from the Quixtar Blog Guy (Link is below - I don't know his real name : ):

March 05, 2004


Some personal musings
Proverbs 23:4-5

Do not wear yourself out to get rich;
have the wisdom to show restraint.
Cast but a glance at riches, and they are gone,
for they will surely sprout wings
and fly off to the sky like an eagle.

One of the things that troubled me most while my wife was active in Quixtar was the apparent focus on obtaining wealth. She was constantly discussing the incomes, homes, vacations, cars, etc. of various "Quixtar successes." While I was (and still am) very happy for all those "successes" there seemed to be this belief that such "wealth" would bring happiness, contentment and even freedom.

We'll be really free once our debts are paid.

Spending more time with the kids will make us much better parents.

A new house with nice furniture will help us be better hosts to our friends in need.

With extra money we can fund those charities we've been neglecting.


A nice, reliable car will keep us feeling safe on the road.

Quixtar was the ticket for our family to obtain those goals and more. We didn't want to be ultra-rich globetrotters living in some modern-day "Gatsby" fantasy. We just wanted security, stability, time and a quality of life that we honestly weren't experiencing all that much. We just wanted more.

Yet there was something about such pursuits that rang hollow in my soul. My mother died of cancer when I was 14. She taught me many things about life in those 14 years and one of the most important lessons I learned was that what really matters most in life isn't material wealth and success but how we treat our fellow man no matter what our personal condition. She showed me this by example and I know now that when she passed away, she did so as the richest woman in the world.

Now, I'm a realist and I know some will read this and believe that I'm some apologist for lazy bastards. That somehow I'm advocating a life of poverty and suggesting that its superior to a life of monetary wealth and physical prosperity. Of course, those people are wrong and also fools. What I am saying is that it's easy to lose focus on what really matters in life, especially when striving for "riches." What I observed during my wife's involvement in Quixtar was a focus on wealth as a solution to all of life's problems and the key to happiness. The reality is that there are a lot of sad, frustrated and unhappy millionaires out there.


Here is a link to Britt World Wide:
www.bww.com...

Amway:
www.amway.com...

And here is this interesting QuixtarBLOG website:
www.webraw.com...

This is QuixtarBLOG's description:
Quixtar Blog
This site is the journal (blog) of the husband of a former Quixtar IBO. The purpose of this site is ONLY to express
personal opinions, convey emotions and relate experiences. This site is not a review of Quixtar or Quixtar's IBOs. This site is neither an endorsement nor a condemnation of Quixtar. It's just one man's perceptions.

I definately recommend everyone read this off of the Quixtar Blog website:
www.webraw.com...

Another link:
Business Analysis of the Quixtar Amway Opportunity
www.amquix.info...

Another link I recommend everyone read:
www.amquix.info...

The link above is about Bo Short (a one time Diamond at Quixtar/Amway) and the reasons he left the company in 2001. Its very, very informative.

Here is Bo Short's webpage, and again, very informative.
formerdiamond.typepad.com...


If you have any questions (since I know I haven't covered everything), ask away, I will try to answer questions as many as I can.
Also, It would be nice to get people's thoughts.



[Edited on 3-18-2004 by EmbryonicEssence]




posted on Mar, 17 2004 @ 04:44 PM
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I'll be back later to answer questions, for those who take the time to read all this, lol.



posted on Mar, 17 2004 @ 04:49 PM
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wow!!! very fascinating read, I had never heard of them before but i did hear of amway before.. from what I read, they do seem to be cultish, pyramid scheme type group. You know the higher uppers are the only ones making the real money. It seems to be quite a large organization too...wonders why so many people fall into stuff like this. thanks for posting it.



posted on Mar, 17 2004 @ 05:03 PM
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Unfortunatley, I had heard about it before. One of my former office-mates was deeply into Quixtar so I got the spiel over-and-over-and-over... A N N O Y I N G! The questions put to you in your initial experience were the same ones I got, almost verbatim. I refused the literature, tapes, etc. politely at first but eventually had to be just rude to get her to lay off.

Funny, she is not rich yet and still "works" -for lack of a better term- for my employer.

Thanks for a good read. You put a lot of effort into that post.



posted on Mar, 17 2004 @ 05:35 PM
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Quixtar= a bunch of brain washing scam artists

The mega money is made by selling "tools".

The upline makes the "tools" to help the downline, sell and recruit more IBO's to buy more memberships and more "tools"

This is the only place that makes money in that organization.

If you want to be MEGA rich by misleading, decieving and "stealing" money from your downline, then GOD save your soul.



posted on Mar, 17 2004 @ 05:38 PM
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Originally posted by EmbryonicEssence
Quixtar is a business but I see it shares many same qualities as a cult. Such as the ways they get new recruits, the way they communicate amongst themselves (they're better than you because they "just know"), and the way they treat you if you don't buy what they are selling. There are other qualities and some of it is explained below. Conspiracies in Religion & Spiritualism is the only thread I could think of putting it
in.


Sounds like christianity to me.



posted on Mar, 17 2004 @ 06:39 PM
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I'd have to agree with everyone's post. Like I said, it seems to be a cult of wealth and possessions. The higher ups are indeed the only people that seem to make money. The people that make them that money of course are the very people they are recruiting - the "feel-good" tapes, videos, and books that you "must" buy. You "MUST" listen, watch and read them - they are good for you and are the only things that will make you successful... blah.

The brainwashing is done through conditioning - the same things are repeated over and over again. The people involved with Quixtar treat all the "Diamonds" as if they are rock stars - again, conditioning. The applauses I saw and heard at the Norfolk Scope were overwhelming - they were louder than any concert I've ever been to. This is something that must be seen to be believed - just don't spend your money.
I spent my money for the good of telling others, I know BS when I see it, lol.

They are really good though, sometimes I actually found that I was questioning myself. Even the most logical mind would be hard pressed not to find themselves doing the same thing. Although I always caught myself, Mother didn't raise a "total" fool.


I mostly did this post so that peole will know what to look for in a Quixtar IBO (and be educated on what Quixtar is) when one finds them - the out-of-nowhere casual talk, the questions, etc... Like I said a couple times in the post though, this isn't the only business like this, but they all use the same tactics.

They all are said to be "multi-level marketing." If you ask if it's a pyramid scheme, they will tell you that "most people don't know what a pyramid scheme is." And with that answer, if you ask any more questions, they start getting really agitated - they can't answer back and if they do, they usually can't explain what a pyramid scheme is. But, like the FTC ruling on Amway I cited, because they offer products they can't be considered one. Although if you look at it closely, because they tell you to invest only in overpriced-and-not-enough-value-for-the-money Quixtar products (no regular brand products) - you are indeed pooling your money into the company and that money is going straight to the top.

And as I mentioned, it is the discontent people that allow themselves to fall for it, unfortunately.


[Edited on 3-17-2004 by EmbryonicEssence]



posted on Mar, 17 2004 @ 06:47 PM
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Originally posted by EmbryonicEssence
Although I always caught myself, Mother didn't raise a "total" fool.




[Edited on 3-17-2004 by EmbryonicEssence]


not at all did she raise a fool. you're quite the intelligent person, my friend. it takes genius to catch oneself being lured into a trap and considering how it was done while also formulating a solution to get you out. good find, and I hope you contribute to the breaking of the spell this entity holds over the minds of the lost.

amazing this amway stuff is still around. though, i owe them some credit, as when one of my cousins was lured into this trap (temporarily, thank goodness), his presentation inspired my desire to start an international business once and for all.



posted on Mar, 17 2004 @ 06:47 PM
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Yes! My grandfather has been involved in Quixtar for since since the days it was called Amway. He hasnt gotten anywhere in that "business". I've been telling him for years that it's a cult. He's just oblivious to the facts he wont get anywhere. He always tells about how when he becomes a diamond how it will be so great and he'll have more money. But this just made me realize I need to put a stop to this. Excellent post. You did your research.



posted on Mar, 17 2004 @ 07:01 PM
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For more info you can look up Network 21 they are a AMO which is Amway Motivational Organization.

The methodology they use was developed in North Korea and is an offshoot from a Japanese Idealogy that helped train the kamikazie pilots.

This is no BS, you can look it up on the net.

Network 21 operates under the Quixtar Group and its primary function is the development of the "tools"

You will see that many countries have deemed Network 21 as a fraud and have blocked them from operating within their borders.

This might tell you the overall subversive nature of the entire organization.



posted on Mar, 17 2004 @ 07:07 PM
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Thank you all for your compliments and responses. And as I mentioned, it was my plan to get into Quixtar and do some investigating of my own and talk about it to everyone! lol.
I never thought about putting it up on here until I couldn't find anything about Quixtar in the search or "multi-level marketing" businesses.

The funny part about being a Diamond (as I've mentioned in the article : ) is that you work just as hard, if not harder, than anything you'll ever do in life - just to stay a Diamond. You should tell your Grandfather to ask around to see what type of schedule his "Diamond" upline has - if he can find out the real info, he'll see that they never stop working. Be aware also that you're Grandfather could possibly see me as one of the "Quixtar Failures" and take what information is presented with a grain of salt.

I posted these in the article, and I definately recommend you look through them and to hopefully get your grandfather to look through them.

formerdiamond.typepad.com...
www.amquix.info...

Hope you can get your Grandfather to come "back."



posted on Mar, 17 2004 @ 07:09 PM
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Originally posted by robertfenix
For more info you can look up Network 21 they are a AMO which is Amway Motivational Organization.

The methodology they use was developed in North Korea and is an offshoot from a Japanese Idealogy that helped train the kamikazie pilots.

This is no BS, you can look it up on the net.

Network 21 operates under the Quixtar Group and its primary function is the development of the "tools"

You will see that many countries have deemed Network 21 as a fraud and have blocked them from operating within their borders.

This might tell you the overall subversive nature of the entire organization.


Very cool, thank you for the info. I have heard of Network 21 but I don't know too much about it. What you say makes perfect sense. I will definately go read up on everything about it.


AF1

posted on Mar, 17 2004 @ 07:18 PM
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I just met one of these goons a couple days ago. He bought me a cup of coffee and just talked about how he was looking for people like me. I figured it was a scam, thanks for the heads up man.



posted on Mar, 17 2004 @ 07:27 PM
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I can't tell you how great it is that you are discussing this. I used to be very involved in Amway and was about to become a "Pearl" Direct Distributor when I realized it was a cult for sure. Don't have time now for a long story but I can assure you, it is frightening how they manipulate and brainwash the mind.



posted on Mar, 17 2004 @ 07:29 PM
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www.skepticfriends.org...

www.amquix.info...

www.apollowebworks.com...

translate.google.com...://www.mlm-beobachter.de/mlm/distributormoral.htm&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%2522network%2B21%2522%26 start%3D560%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DN

Network 21, Network21, Network TwentyOne
The organisation Network 21 does offer a unique success and education program.
Network of Caring, Network 21's partnership with World Vision
Many thanks to Nancy and Jim Dornan, the founders of Network 21, and thanks to the entire Network of Caring team around the world, Network 21's partnership with World Vision.

From www.netminers.com...

www.ex-cult.org...

amnotway.freeyellow.com...

www.despatch.cth.com.au...

www.quixtarblog.com

Network 21 is even more of a threat because of their modification to Christainity. They are using the vail of religion in order to dupe more IBO into forking over their cash.


Anyone who comes into contact with these people should just run.



posted on Mar, 17 2004 @ 07:29 PM
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Originally posted by AF1
I just met one of these goons a couple days ago. He bought me a cup of coffee and just talked about how he was looking for people like me. I figured it was a scam, thanks for the heads up man.


No problem.
Be wary, they come in every form. They really do think there is something to gain, unfortunately. They're searching for something that is only there for a few. I must mention that they also almost always say that 90-95% of people who create small businesses fail, which isn't true.

You have a much, much better chance of being successful at owning YOUR own business (since you're not really owning anything at Quixtar, you just get a nice little card that says your an "Independant Business Owner" and that you now have access to the Quixtar site, lol : ) than getting anything out of Quixtar. Heck, Ebay is just one good way to start a successful business - and people are really making money off of there.



posted on Mar, 17 2004 @ 07:31 PM
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Originally posted by robertfenix
www.skepticfriends.org...

www.amquix.info...

www.apollowebworks.com...

translate.google.com...://www.mlm-beobachter.de/mlm/distributormoral.htm&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%2522network%2B21%2522%26 start%3D560%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DN

Network 21, Network21, Network TwentyOne
The organisation Network 21 does offer a unique success and education program.
Network of Caring, Network 21's partnership with World Vision
Many thanks to Nancy and Jim Dornan, the founders of Network 21, and thanks to the entire Network of Caring team around the world, Network 21's partnership with World Vision.

From www.netminers.com...

www.ex-cult.org...

amnotway.freeyellow.com...

www.despatch.cth.com.au...

www.quixtarblog.com

Network 21 is even more of a threat because of their modification to Christainity. They are using the vail of religion in order to dupe more IBO into forking over their cash.


Anyone who comes into contact with these people should just run.



Thanks for all the links man! : ) Read the part about the preaching in my post, I think Quixtar is insanely doing the same thing. I really wish I had brought a video camera, oops, forgot, you weren't allowed to bring them! lol.



posted on Mar, 17 2004 @ 08:18 PM
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The numbers throughout the articles refer to the following comments.-

(The abbreviation AMO means "Amway Motivational Organization", a term commonly used to describe the various support organizations that Amway has.)

(1). Amway distributors frequently dismiss allegations that the AMOs operate pyramid schemes by pointing out that they do not pay for new recruits. While this is true, payment for recruits is only one of several points raised by the above articles. Technically you're paying for yourself to become a new recruit, if you become an "IBO" you're paying $60-80 out of you own pocket to get that little card that says you are an "IBO" and access to the Quixtar website.

(2). These articles consistently refer to the need for retail sales, as opposed to recruiting new distributors. This is the basis of Amway's legality. Without retail, it is a pyramid scheme. Retail sales are uncommon in the Amway business, and they are actively discouraged by the larger AMOs. The percentage of Amway products sold to distributors for self use is estimated at being as high as 90 percent.

(3). The words "or use" are the two most significant words on the entire page. Amway distributors often define self consumption of the product as being the same as retailing. This is clearly not the case. There is a limit on how much you can "buy from your own store".

(4). Lying about the income potential is widespread in Amway, especially at the recruiting stage. They will tell you about huge amounts of money to be made, but if you ask for specific evidence, you will be told that they can not give you details because it "is against the law".
Most of the income attained by the AMO leaders comes from the "tools scam".

(5). One of the first things you might be told once you sign up for Amway is not to talk to anyone about it. Various reasons are given for this advice, ranging from the rather logical "your friends won't have all the facts", to the very patronizing "only a successful person can give advice on this business". The reality is that they don't want you to find out the truth about several points, namely the hidden cost of paying for "motivational" information, the incredibly high failure rate, lawsuits against Amway and the AMO leaders, cult allegations, condescending attitudes to women, right-wing religious conections, bigotry, lies, etc.


Everything up above is exactly what Quixtar does, since Amway is Quixtar, and vice versa.

roberfenix previously posted the link to the information above:
amnotway.freeyellow.com...

A good read I might add (for the rest of the information provided in the link)!


[Edited on 3-17-2004 by EmbryonicEssence]



posted on Mar, 17 2004 @ 08:33 PM
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I found this really good link for information on most of the well known MLMs (Multi-Level Marketing) schemes:
www.mlmsurvivor.com...

Here is a link to part of that site:
216.239.39.104...://www.mlmsurvivor.com/ethics.htm&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%2522network%2B21%2522%26

There is some interesting info on there:
It appears that Mark Barton, the Atlanta, GA stock trader who killed his family, and brokerage employees before turning the gun on himself, had been an Amway distributor. This is, sadly, not the only recent case in which a distributor or former distributor has committed murder. There was also a recent case in Canada. These are cases for the psychiatrists, but one can't help but wonder whether the cultism so rampant in so many AMOs [Amway Motivational Organizations] has further unbalanced some precariously put together psyches.

Many people take things to the extremes (usually people with mental problems to begin with) but I found it interesting how people are letting Amway/Quixtar get so deep into their psyche that they can't come back to reality.



posted on Mar, 17 2004 @ 08:46 PM
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Well, from all the information that I'm finding I can say that there might be some sort of conspiracy at Amway/Quixtar and BWW (Britt World Wide). I know they are using people who are discontent to make all the higher ups wealthy beyond belief but there must be something more to it.

There is more to it than I can see with my eyes. When I was watching Bill Britt up there on stage at the Norfolk Scope, I just felt something wasn't quite right with that man - even more so than all the other speakers. I know he is one of the "Kings" of the organization but I feel that there is something more to him. I felt this sense of evil permeating from him - thats the only way I could explain it.

[Edited on 3-17-2004 by EmbryonicEssence]





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