Untersberg - The Mystery Mountain

reply to post by white eagle


I don't know how relevant this might be, certainly not directly, but it could be useful to remember that the pyramids themselves are supposed to be "recreations" of mountains.
Why? Is it only because mountains by their very nature are seen to be closer to the gods or to God?
Or was there something else they wanted to "recreate"?

It's an interesting question, with many different opinions.
I don't think it can be answered definitively. Not yet.

What worries me, and I've touched on this in a previous post, is that the lore about secret passages and such in the Alps themselves is being rapidly lost. Once these stories are gone they are gone.

reply to post by AdAstra


In this day and age of the internet, folklore is no longer perpetuated by person to person recollection and the handing down of tales through the years.

It is (hopefully), recorded for posterity for all to see (this thread would be a good source!), depending of course on how the internet develops over the next couple of hundered years.

Regarding pyramids - of course, they are widely suggested to be various things, apart from the basic suggested use as a burial place for the Pharoahs. There is also something about the shape - the razor blade trick, anyone? Healing pyramids? I think the shape lend itself to energy focussing, be it electromagnetic or whatever, but it's energy nonetheless.

Originally posted by BlueOrb

In this day and age of the internet, folklore is no longer perpetuated by person to person recollection and the handing down of tales through the years.

It is (hopefully), recorded for posterity for all to see (this thread would be a good source!), depending of course on how the internet develops over the next couple of hundered years.

Not gonna happen. Already info is disappearing from the internet, I run into this all the time when searching for older material. Some of it is deliberately pulled, some just because the author has become broke or passed away

The Wayback Machine does attempt to make copies, but it isn't perfect and mostly stores the text without relevant photos. Also I have run across "access denied" and "Blocked by robot" messages

I store everything I find on my computer. I have thousand of documents I haven't even read yet and 10020% of what I have is on my website... But if I stop paying the bill... 30 days after my last payment the site will be taken off line. A few months after that with no new payment, it will all be purged. Already happened to one of my team who is a member here. She also had a hard drive failure about the same time so the backup is gone as well

Years of hard work POOF in a flash. If you write books, at least those survive, but in the UFO/Alternate Idea category if you write books you are only in it for the money... go figure

If something happens to society like an EMP or other reason to lose electricity... all the digital media will go poof because very few people have it all backed up on permanent media.

Here at ATS? How easy is it exactly to find info presented 10 years ago?



That isn't even counting government intervention... look at China blocking the internet.. Egypt did recently as well during the recent uprising... imagine if the PTB say "enough" and pull the switch? Where is all the info then?

It has been rumored that Atlantis stored it's info on crystals. Even if we had those in hand now, could we access the data? Our CDs are longer lasting than the old magnetic tape... but how long? Will the plastic last 100 years before it disintegrates?

Originally posted by zorgon
The Wayback Machine does attempt to make copies, but it isn't perfect and mostly stores the text without relevant photos. Also I have run across "access denied" and "Blocked by robot" messages

That's because the original site didn't allow "robots", so the Wayback Machine could not automatically download the site. I have found some of those myself.

I store everything I find on my computer. I have thousand of documents I haven't even read yet and 10020% of what I have is on my website... But if I stop paying the bill... 30 days after my last payment the site will be taken off line. A few months after that with no new payment, it will all be purged. Already happened to one of my team who is a member here. She also had a hard drive failure about the same time so the backup is gone as well

That's why I have my sites at home, but the bandwidth I have wouldn't be enough for a site with as many hits as yours.

(just to illustrate what you were saying, can you see any NASA site today? I cannot)

It has been rumored that Atlantis stored it's info on crystals. Even if we had those in hand now, could we access the data? Our CDs are longer lasting than the old magnetic tape... but how long? Will the plastic last 100 years before it disintegrates?

That problem is being discussed for some in the archives community, they already have that problem. One the ways of avoiding the problem is to migrate all data to new supports when they become available (like digitising all documents to CD-ROMs, then passing all the data to DVDs, etc.), but that doesn't solve the file format problem.

Because of that, most organisations are focusing in XML for text and uncompressed TIFF for images, but that's far from perfect.

PS: something useful to all investigators: besides libraries, a large source of information about any subject can be found in archives. They are usually forgotten but an excellent (and usually well organised, sometimes even with public Internet access) source. I know because I have been working with archives for some 15 years.

reply to post by ArMaP


Yeah I can open NASA fine right now, at least the ones I checked...

AS to archives... who decides WHAT is worth keeping? We all know that there is a lot of garbage out there, but some of it may have value. So who makes the call? I am sure the archivists don't just save everything.

And it is usually alternative viewpoints that fall off the wagon first

Originally posted by zorgon
AS to archives... who decides WHAT is worth keeping? We all know that there is a lot of garbage out there, but some of it may have value. So who makes the call? I am sure the archivists don't just save everything.

As archives are based on the documents made and received by some organisation, that organisation is the one that decides which have primary value, based on what they are related to (legal documents, tax related, personal data about employees, etc.), but in Portugal (I don't know how things are in other countries, although the International Council on Archives makes the rules for everything related to archives) we have some executive orders (or something like that) that say which documents should be kept based on their secondary value (based on their informative, testimonial, patrimonial, etc. value) and how long should the documents stay in each phase of their "lives" (active and semi-active) before they are destroyed or sent to the inactive phase in a historical archive.

For example, the selection and evaluation table for schools says something like this:
- The minutes from the administration reunions should be kept in an active phase for 2 years, another 2 years in an inactive phase and they should be kept as a historical reference to the administration of that school
- Rules for the school insurance are kept in an active phase for the duration of the insurance contract, they should be kept one year in an inactive phase and then can be destroyed, as they are not considered of historical relevance.

The archive I know better, the one from the Portuguese army, has records for all officers that died more than 25 years ago since the 18th century, all the rules published since 1809, thousands of communications between military and civil authorities, etc.

Their first scanned documents (for use on a CD-ROM they made about the archive) were scanned by me. Some of them were from the king asking the authorities of some town for some barley for the horses that would go through that area. You can see one of those images here.

So, if it was thought that it had historical (either at a national, regional, local or personal level) value, it's probably in an archive.

Although archives are usually part of some organisation it doesn't mean that they are limited to that, a large percentage of another archive I know was donated by a judge of that town in his testament, so personal archives can also be found in the archives of the towns or organisations related to those people.

You just have to know where to look.

Originally posted by BlueOrb

Without a doubt people prefer to confide their lore to the internet these days; in that sense the internet is even an effective weapon against total oblivion, a great repository for traditional stories and legends, provided there is someone interested in recording them.
But it's not the internet what's making people forget those stories. The main culprit is television, I think, because this abandoning of traditional stories has been going on for decades.

Regarding pyramids - of course, they are widely suggested to be various things, apart from the basic suggested use as a burial place for the Pharoahs. There is also something about the shape - the razor blade trick, anyone? Healing pyramids? I think the shape lend itself to energy focussing, be it electromagnetic or whatever, but it's energy nonetheless.

That's true.
Whether they are mausoleums or not, whether they are recreations of "holy mountains" or not, I am sure the painstakingly defined shape surely has something to do with its purported "healing" or at least conservational abilities. Unless everything reported about it is false.
I think this is unlikely.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
continued from previous posts


8. More on the 1987 Time-Jump to Alexandria

Note: If some German ATS-member can help me find the original newspaper stories that were printed in pre-internet times, that would be great

As mentioned in the opening post there was an alleged time-jump of a one man and two women who dissappeared at the Untersberg and reappeared 3 months later near Alexandria. These stories appeared in normal newspapers as follows:

* In August of 1987 the newspapers carried a story of these three cave-explorers dissappearing. No mention of time-portals or paranormal phenomena. Newspaper headlines were in the lines of "Cave-Explorers Dissappeared - assumed dead after cave accident"

(These reports directly contradict later attempted "debunks" by pseudoskeptics, claiming that these people never dissappeared in the first place).

* In November of 1987 (3 months later), normal newspapers carried another story: The "missing people" had reappeared in Alexandria. These reports mentioned possibilities of mysterious phenomena, time-jumps and time-portals and reported amnesia by the group of three. According to some of these reports, they did not know how they got there.

* After returning to their home-city (Munich, about 130 miles from Untersberg) they suddenly changed their story, telling reporters that they hadnt time-travelled but that they had just left their white car standing at the parking place in Furstenbrunn (a village beside Untersberg) and then took a train to Salzburg (Austria) and from there to Villach (Austria) in order to go mountain hiking. The married couple and their friend then explained that they had "mistakingly" passed the austria-yugoslavia border (the third woman had supposedly left her passport in the car at untersberg). Afraid of yugoslavian authorities they decided not to return, but to continue their journey to the Red Sea and the Indian Ocean.

The most obvious indicator that this story is a lie is that it is virtually impossible to "accidentally" cross the border to yugoslavia. Fact is that the train from Salzburg to Villach doesnt even come close to the Yugoslavian border by hundreds of miles. And even if it had, there were at that time (1987) strict border controls before passing into the country. And how likely is it that someone would travel to the Red Sea (Israel, Egypt) without a passport?

The search team who had been looking for them in 1987 did find a checkered blouse near a place they had been. It is common for cave-explorers to leave a piece of clothing outside the cave, should they go missing.

However, this place was not a visible cave entrance but, according to legend, a cave-entrance that only opens on a certain public holidy (Himmelfahrt - Christs Ascension Day) - the 15th of August. The very day the group was at the Untersberg!

Unfortunately the group denied the blouse belonging to them. And conviniently, some other tourist called in at the newspapers, claiming it to be her blouse....albeit 3 months later.

Newspaper-sources omit the names of the group for their protection (since they deny everything and want to be left alone), however...old newspaper archives (1987) should still carry them.

So, we are supposed to believe that they "accidentally" travelled through half a dozen countries without a passport for 3 months.

It seems quite possible that they are either a) Keeping it secret for their own reasons or b) were forced to invent a cover-story.

[edit on 26-8-2008 by Skyfloating]

Well, there you go:
www.alpenfestung.com...

And it appears there has been found a crystal skull in 2002.
www.cordes-ralf.de...

BTW, I slept on the slope of that mountain a couple of nights in 2007. It's an amazing place, I will return there for sure.
Also I have seen the bunkers within the Obersalzberg and visited the eagles nest.

reply to post by Regenstorm


Tje crystal skull was discussed on page 23, if I am not mistaken.

I was there two years ago but didn't spend the night on the mountain itself.
I am glad to hear you got to do it.
May I ask where exactly - I mean on which part of which slope - you spent the night?
I am asking because I want to revisit the place; and I am sure others might be interested in your experiences.

reply to post by AdAstra


I agree on them wanting to be closer to the gods. A pyramid shape would be the safest way to build something as tall as the great pyramid. A structure that was the same width at the top, as the bottom wouldnt be safe at all.

reply to post by AdAstra


I stayed at the southern site of the mountain. I met there with other people that share the same knowledge as I do.
We didn't experience anything strange. However I made a picture in the area with a strange light on it.
I have it on a hard-disk somewhere along with great pictures of the mountain, the beautiful area and bunkers.
I will look for them and post some of them later.

reply to post by jexmo


Yes, of course.
That's another thing to consider: you cannot build a "mountain" just by dumping rocks any which way, especially if it's supposed to be a mausoleum at the same time.

Which got me thinking.... a pyramid would basically be a holy "mountain", with a king "sleeping" inside.
Sounds familiar?

I am not making anything out of this seeming parallel.
Just kidding. :-)

reply to post by Regenstorm



A photo of that light would be very interesting to see. I hope you do post it.

BTW, have you seen the various light orbs that have been mentioned and even posted (photos) within this thread?

reply to post by AdAstra


It makes great sense. I've never really thought of it in that way. I'd love to see these mountains myself which brings me to my next point. Why have their not been any major expeditions inside of this mountain. The interest seems to be worldwide. Surely somebody with a bit of financial backing would explre the mountain. If I had the cash I wouldnt think twice about going.

reply to post by jexmo


Oh, they have been many speleological expeditions there, but of course caves are tricky places, as I know myself, so exploring just one often takes many years.
Most of all, the mountain is HUGE. It's much bigger than it looks on pictures.

BTW, there are a couple of neat live webcams there. I think a link was posted here in the summer of 2009 (after August 16th).

Originally posted by jexmo

It makes great sense. I've never really thought of it in that way. I'd love to see these mountains myself which brings me to my next point. Why have their not been any major expeditions inside of this mountain. The interest seems to be worldwide. Surely somebody with a bit of financial backing would explre the mountain. If I had the cash I wouldnt think twice about going.

Because its dangerous. Cave explorers have gone missing repeatedly. Near the mountain they found the deepest caves ever discovered in the country. You could easily get lost.

Originally posted by jexmo
reply to post by AdAstra

 

It makes great sense. I've never really thought of it in that way. I'd love to see these mountains myself which brings me to my next point. Why have their not been any major expeditions inside of this mountain. The interest seems to be worldwide. Surely somebody with a bit of financial backing would explre the mountain. If I had the cash I wouldnt think twice about going.

Read also this POST about expeditions in the cave.

And also THIS

This is what has been explored till now.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/739afb16ff9d.jpg[/atsimg]

reply to post by Lunica


Thanks for reposting the links above.

Those are great links to great photos and descriptions of the explorations done in the caves there.

reply to post by Lunica


A lot of the caves inside the mountain have been explored to a certain extent, and indee documented (don't let me bang on about my cave book again....and i still haven't paid for it!)

The issue is, as with the vast expedition that you mention, the caves have not been FULLY explored and documented, and as such no one really knows the true extent of "what lies beneath". And i think it will be a very long time, if ever, before the caves vcan be said to have been fully explored.

But then again, that's what' makes it so interesting, right?

reply to post by Lunica


Wow, thanks for the links and info, you out members like me to shame lol. Thats a lot of the mountain that they have explored yet there is still so much that they haven't. This thread has definitely sparked a new interest for me. I hope someone rich feels as brave as I do and goes for a major expedition. Is there any possible way of getting as live camera feed during an expedition or is that just impossible?