Untersberg - The Mystery Mountain

I feel bad writing about holes that don't seem to be directly relevant to the subject matter, but it is true, this is like an "encyclopedia" of the Untersberg, so why not? (And what is the subject matter anyway? )

So, RE: the Goldloch: was there maybe a "gold" (or Geld = coins) - trove found there at some time? A name like that always signifies some sort of treasure (like here), but I think it's unlikely there would be a natural gold deposit there.



[edit on 22-5-2010 by AdAstra]

reply to post by AdAstra


There are indeed legends/folk tales (call them what you like), of gold being found in caves. I will post details shortly (when i have fully read and translated from "The Book")

And good to see you checking in again Vanitas!

Originally posted by BlueOrb

If anyone has any questions regarding caves, fire away,

Excellent Work BlueOrb - you keep this subject alive. I have a question: Is there any data on the depth of the caves?

reply to post by Skyfloating


Each of the 151 Caves has it's own section with details of the height above sea lavel of the entrance, which country it is in, the type of cave (i.e wet, dry, ice cave, shaft, etc), a rating from 0 to 4 regarding length (0 is unknown, 1 is 5 to 50m, 2 is 50 to 500m, 3 is 500 to 5000m and 4 is over 5000m). They also have an indiaction of the state of the exploration, for example, not explored at all, fully explored and measured, only breifly explored and not measured, partially eplored and measured). The book then goes on to examine each cave in more detail, giving the total length, horizontal distance, total difference (i.e up or down) in level from the entrance, when the cave was first explored or recorded, and a description of the cave (from the entrance inwards). This includes a description of where to locate the cave entrance. Many of the more explored caves also have plan and section sketched of the cave layout, made at the time of exploration.

There is far, far too much information for me to post everything about all of the caves, but i will try and answer any questions about specific caves if you have some.

We should remember, that although we are probably interested in depths here, we should not forget lengths also. A cave could be 2km long, but only deviate 10m in level from the entrance (although over the 2km it may rise and fall hundred of metres, of course).

The very deep cave that was mentioned earlier (with the lake underground) is, i think, not detailed in the book. Unfortunately the data is from 1975 or so.

Each group of mountains in the region has it's own "Kataster nummer" or land registry number - Untersberg is 1339. So, for example, number one in the list, the Kolowratshoehle is identified by the unique number "1339/1".

In terms of "Grosshoehlen", or the caves categorised as being 3 or 4 in terms of size (as described above, 500m + length), the five listed are:

20. Grosser Eiskeller (length 1350m, horizontal 230m, diff 90m)
112. Kargrabenhoehle (length 1036m, horizontal 544m, diff -446.5m
26. Schellenberger Eiskeller (length approx 1000m, horizontal 150m, difff
2. Gamsloecher-Barenhorst (length 800m, horizontal 210m, diff 100m)
111. Schwiegmuehlhoehle (length 646m, horizontal approx 200m, diff -150m)
53. Suelzenkarhoehle (length 580m, horizontal 120m, diff 100m)

There really is w wealth of information, and if anyone is in a position to buy the book, i would recopmmend it (€44 or so!).

reply to post by AdAstra


There are brief descriptions of several folk tales regarding gold, or treasure, in the book. They see to revolve around the same premise, that one day, someone finds Gold, and then upon returning, cannot find it again. One even describes someone being led inside the mountain by a monk, and returning with Gold. I get a feeliong that this tale in particular, could be a version of the Lazarus Gitschner story, that has undergone some "chinese whispers" along the years (as i suspect many folk tales do).
To my knowledge, there has never been precious metals found there, so unless you believe in that kind of thing, i think the tales of gold are just that - tales.

Originally posted by Skyfloating

... you keep this subject alive.

And YOU started it!

I just feel there is so much more to this, and although it may not be immediately available, the information is out there somewhere. And rest assured i will keep looking...I'm afraid this has turned into something of a passion/obsession, after stumbling across this thanks to Google all that time ago.

My day wouldn't be complete without visiting the latest page to see if someone has added something to the discussion.

Originally posted by BlueOrb
reply to post by AdAstra

 

They see to revolve around the same premise, that one day, someone finds Gold, and then upon returning, cannot find it again. One even describes someone being led inside the mountain by a monk, and returning with Gold. I get a feeliong that this tale in particular, could be a version of the Lazarus Gitschner story, that has undergone some "chinese whispers" along the years (as i suspect many folk tales do).

Yes, that's why I asked when I saw the name of that cave.
Still I think often there is a grain of truth on one end of the "Chinese whispers" (that's like the "faulty telephone" game, right? ).
There could be real "treasures" in there from the time of the Turkish invasions, for example. People were understandably very worried about them and those who had physical wealth did hide it sometimes. And all too often they did not live to retrieve it.

But anyway, I was more interested in the name because of possible connections with the stories about abnormal time lapses and such. So perhaps that Goldloch should be "looked into", to see if there is some trace of Gitschner's passage.

Thanks again for your wonderful contributions!





[edit on 29-5-2010 by AdAstra]

[edit on 29-5-2010 by AdAstra]

reply to post by AdAstra


Yes, i think the faulty telephone and chines whispers is the same game! Best palyed after a few Bellinis.......

Not only in the times of the turkish invasion, but a lot more recently - i seem to recall that more tha one cave was used by the Nazis towards the end of WWII to store/hide looted treasures. Indeed vast amounts of Gold and paintings were discovered by the US Army. I think that some treasures were actually found hidden in a tunnel (a man made cave, if you like!) in Berchtesgaden, in a train belonging to Hermann Goering. I will try and find the info.....i recall that it included a substantial sum of money and ....GOLD,,,,amongst other things.

By their very nauture, caves and tunnels have an air of secrecy about them - a good place to hide, or hide things.

Ok, not a "cave" as such, but a mine.

"The largest single cache of gold and art was not found in a secret underground fortress, but in a salt mine near the village of Merkers. It seems that the Merkers salt mine was first used as a store for gold and art in March 1945 when the Germans sought a safe place for the art and wealth of the Reichsbank, away from the non stop bombing and shelling. Other locations had been considered, but were found to be too damp for storing important paintings and the huge quantities of banknotes.

The Merkers treasure was captured by the Americans on the 7th of April 1945. Generals Dwight D. Eisenhower, George S. Patton and Omar N. Bradley visited the mine soon after its discovery to inspect the treasure and to ensure its safe removal to another secure location away from the rapidly advancing Soviets, the allies feared the loss of the art and gold to the Russians as much as the Germans did.

Partial list of material recovered from the Merkers mine:

8,198 bars of gold bullion
55 boxes of crated gold bullion
1,300 bags of gold Reichsmarks
711 bags of American twenty-dollar gold pieces
2.76 billion Reichsmarks
20 silver bars
40 bags containing silver bars
63 boxes and 55 bags of silver plate
1 bag containing six platinum bars

Source: www.detecting.org.uk...

Originally posted by BlueOrb
reply to post by AdAstra

 

Yes, i think the faulty telephone and chines whispers is the same game! Best palyed after a few Bellinis.......

Does apple cidre count?

Right, the Nazis. That may also explain the Bibelforscherdoline!
Sorry about that. Can't get them out of my mind....

I remember that story. And who knows how many such places are still undiscovered!

Anyone wants to go on an expedition there?
I'v been there, but didn't get to see much. (Well, I did see the panorama, but didn't notice anything abnormal there. )









[edit on 29-5-2010 by AdAstra]

[edit on 29-5-2010 by AdAstra]

reply to post by AdAstra


It is said that there is still a large amount of hidden treasure, stolen by the Nazis, that has been undiscovered and remains in the Alps somewhere. It is rumoured (but i think over stated to an extent), that there were many tunnels built in the Aps that would form the National Redoubt - the place whjere the Nazis would retreat to and regroup after the war. Some people think the treasures may be hidden in some of these tunnels.

I also posted a brief account way back in this thread concerning a mysterious SS convoy that left Obersalzburg in April 1945, late one night, that is rumoured to have been transporting the Holy Grail, which was hidden on the edge of a precipice in the Schleigeiss Glacier, off the Zillertal Pass in Austria (not too far away).

The Nazis also dumped millions of fake English banknotes (amongst possibly other things) in Lake Toplitz, again, not too far away.

Also, there is a small village in Austria where it is said that gold bars still turn up frim time to time...... It is mentioned on the detecting site i linked to above.

I think there is much that is still not known about what went on at the end of WWII, and given the very large amount of loot that is still unaccounted for (i read somewhere that today it could be worth $50 Billion), it would not surpise me if someone, somewhere, is researching this to death in an effort to find it. I just wish it was me!!!!

Maybe they stashed some of it in the Untersberg too!?

There is a new thread today that is very interesting that makes reference to Untersberg Mountain.

It is really interesting. It refers to the Untersberg as The Midnight Mountain. There are several quotes of this prophecy on the second page of the thread that are good too, so read it all.

Amazing Judgment Day Prophecy Sajaha 605-562 BC

This is a prophecy made by Sajaha who served under king Nebuchadnezzar II of Babylonia. As far as I can tell, this is one of the first translations from German in English. I've known several quotes from the book of Sajaha for many years, now I've finally found the whole book on-line (see source). The more I read it, the more amazing stuff I find. Like the part I translated for all you poor linguistics. There are some who believe that Northland is Germany, the Midnight Mountain the Untersberg and the fiery chariots (Sajaha 12:3) the Nazi UFOs.

1st: At the top of a mountain gods Marduk reigns of time. He sees bad coming, but can not prevent this for a long time coming...

[edit on 30-5-2010 by Julie Washington]

I thought to go hiking to the Unterberg in july after reading your thread. It's only a hour from where I live.

And if I don't find anything paranormal there or reappear in antoher part of the world, it'll be a nice hiking tour.

Is there something you would want me to investigate? I could get a camera and take some pictures...

Bl4cK

Originally posted by BlueOrb

I think there is much that is still not known about what went on at the end of WWII, and given the very large amount of loot that is still unaccounted for (i read somewhere that today it could be worth $50 Billion),

Wow - that much?!

Maybe they stashed some of it in the Untersberg too!?

Quite possible, IMO.
Maybe the used some previously dug tunnels (perhaps dug centuries earlier) in addition to natural caves.

It sounds like a movie plot, but really, with those guys especially, there's no telling what they knew or could do. It is quite possible, in my opinion.

reply to post by Bl4cK


Why don't you go on August 15, when that magical "portal" or whatever it is is supposed to open?

reply to post by Julie Washington


Thank you.
Anything is possible, but the reference to the Untersberg is actually only an interpretation (and tentative at that) by the thread author. He (?) says so himself.
EDIT: No, actually the author says "there are some who believe "that the mountain could be der Untersberg.

What bugs me the most is that the "source" is a Wiki entry and the book itself is apparently out of print or something because you can't even buy it first-hand now.
Also, it says it's a "new translation". Of what? I couldn't find any older editions, not online anyway. And there are no Google hits about this in any other language, only in German (which I understand, no problem, but it's strange that nobody else wrote about "her", isn't it?)

I must admit I've never heard about this "Babylonian prophetess", and online there is no information about her outside this book.
But I have heard about the many forgeries perpetrated, both in art and literature, by the Nazis or their sympathizers. They were quite good at that!



[edit on 31-5-2010 by AdAstra]

[edit on 31-5-2010 by AdAstra]

I apologize if this has already been brought up (I have read the entire thread, but don't remember everything!).

Just a little something I stumbled on. It appears to be more folklore of the Untersberg. Just wanted to share. The translation is not perfect, so it doesn't read well.

Giants and wild women from Untersberg

"People from the village of Feldkirchen near the city of Salzburg for telling true: When we were young boys, we have seen with my own eyes that some old giant came out from the Untersberg, and came down to the next rejected this mountain standing Grödig parish church, with different people held talks, but no one inflicted some pain, but again went their way in peace. The Grödig people were from the giants often exhorted to save lives through edifying to oppose deserved misfortune. The same people were on to the same time that have come to very much Grödig several women from this kind of wild Untersberg given to the boys and girls, who first took care of the hole within Glanegg of the cattle, and they have to eat bread and cheese. Also in the grain cutting such wild women went to Grödig. They came down very early in the morning and evening, as the other men taken after work, they went into it without eating along with the evening meal, again in the wonders of the mountain..."

Click on link to read the whole story.

And another story:

"The legend tells that a prince's son went up toward evening to the foot of the Untersberg. And as the night the fray collects, enters the further progress towards a gray-bearded preacher and beckons him to follow and leads him deep into the wonders of the mountain, deeper and deeper until it is sargeseng. As the veteran leader reaches into the rocks, and it will open a further throne room with beautiful columns and bright luster..."

The pear tree on the Walserfeld

Again, I apologize if these have already been posted.

Why don't you go on August 15, when that magical "portal" or whatever it is is supposed to open?

I read in a few german paranormal forums about it. There is supposed to be a sort of green fog on August 2. It is said the people who disappear went in there.
Some of them wanted to visit the mountain as well.

I'm rather skeptical about such things. Nevertheless it fascinates me.
We'll see if I can find some time in august to go there.

reply to post by Bl4cK


I am skeptical too. So much the better!
All you need is an open mind.

August 2nd? Green fog? Where did this come from?
I don't remember any mention of it here, but it's been a very long time, more than a year, I think, since I've read the thread, so....
Does anyone else know about this?
(Excuse my laziness. )