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Untersberg - The Mystery Mountain

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posted on Feb, 27 2010 @ 04:19 AM
reply to post by Skyfloating

I came across the same information too, whilst trying to fathom the Hochthron thing out. Same here - i have stored it away in case it becomes relevant to any developing line of research.

What immediately came to my mind, was that i am sure i have read that places such as the Untersberg, and Mt Shasta, are referred to as "Geonodes", and also, as we know, heart shakras.

My initial (but all to brief) thought, was that there MUST be something special about this place for them to use it as a Pseudolite. After all, there are many more, larger and more famous mountains, not too far away, which one would think would be used for such as purpose.

Also, you have the legend that a ray of light will shine down (templar legend), and the place where it meets the earth was mentioned to be the Untersberg. Is this because there is some kind of connection between that which is beyond outr atmosphere, and the mountain. Does the mountain "attract" energy from space, and possibly the sun? I am certainly no physicist/scientist, but for some reason i thing that this mountain does provide some sort of link bretween earth and space - possibly due to gravitational anomolies and high geomagnetism.

I think you are right to make reference here, and certainly something may well become relevant further down the road.

posted on Mar, 1 2010 @ 04:25 AM
Some more in formation regarding the Galileo Pseudolite on the Hochthron (and , as it turns out, the 5 other Pseudolites in the Berchtesgaden area):

The GATE project is a German research project that simulates signals from then future Galileo satellite with ground based radio signals.
Six Pseudolites have been installed on surrounding peaks (Grünstein, Toter Mann, Hochthron, Kneifelspitze, Kehlstein und Jenner), with two central monitoring stations. They encompass an area of 65 sq km in which they transmit Galileo signals. The two monitoring stations have been positioned in the centre of the area, on the Berchtesgaden radio transmitter.

Through it’s infrastructure, GATE is in the position to generate the navigation signals of the Galileo satellites, and simulate natural influencing factors (eg effects through the Ionosphere, Troposphere, etc), in order to amend signal types and strengths as required.

Source :

Also, check out the GATE website for more information at

Map showing Pseudolites:

3D Pic of the same:

What is interesting is that they can simulate influences of the ionosphere and troposphere……. I go back to my previous thoughts – Is there a specific reason that this area is being used?
It there a good “connection” with the ionosphere, etc in Berchtesgaden? Better than elsewhere? Anything to do with the geomagnetism or gravity anomalies in the area? Remember the radio signals from the N2 ruins that were received from South America……..?

It’s only my own, relatively uninformed speculation, but I think there must be a link…….

posted on Mar, 1 2010 @ 09:51 AM

Originally posted by white eagle

i dont have read the whole article, but the named chapell "wegmacherkapelle" is situated in the near of the nixloch.
the place of the chapell is interesting because of the "fuchsstein".
formerly it may has been a cult-place.
coming from berchtesgaden, the fuchsstein is the first place, where you can see the "teufelsloch".

This was very interesting. One part of the article that stood out to me was this:

"one is struck less by the discrete cross in the flagstone floor than by a shoulder-high marble pillar in the center of the chapel on which rests a large, translucent mountain quartz."

What's with the quartz atop a pillar? A crystal of some sort? What is it's purpose or meaning?

posted on Mar, 12 2010 @ 02:29 PM

Remember the radio signals from the N2 ruins that were received from South America……..?

It’s only my own, relatively uninformed speculation, but I think there must be a link…….

Sorry, what ruins/signals are those?
I did search this site for "N2" but found nothing that seemed relevant.
Sorry if I somehow missed it!


[edit on 12-3-2010 by AdAstra]

[edit on 12-3-2010 by AdAstra]

posted on Mar, 14 2010 @ 01:21 AM
reply to post by AdAstra

I mentioned it in a previous post of mine - some time ago now. When i have more time, i can try and find it.

Basically, there is a specific area on Obersalzberg, in the ruins of a communications building buolt by the Nazis, and known as NII.

At a certain time, and on a certain radio frequency, a "spanish" sounding radio station can be received. Research showed the station to be based in Bolivia, South America.

At the time, i made the comment that it was coincidental that a lot of Nazis fled to South america after the war, and was this radio reception connected at all with this.

My thoughts are, that the Ionosphere plays a role in the ability to transmit radio signals a significant distance, and so maybe the Ionosphere is connected, in some way, to this special area, and hence the ability to receive radio transmissions from the other side of the world. This is what was getting at in my post regarding the GATE project being undertaken around Berchtesgaden - is there a specific reason that it is located in this area, especially as they simulate chages in the ionosphere in their tests.

You can also find details regarding NII on the website, which is in German, but an excellent overview (with great detail), about some of the Nazi buildings and facilities around this area.

posted on Mar, 14 2010 @ 03:03 AM
reply to post by BlueOrb

Thank you. I guess the search function doesn't work perfectly.
I'll reread the thread from where I left it when I have the time.

It's an interesting subject, and I am now somewhat familiar with the area. But sadly I know very little about radio signals and such.

Thanks for the concise reply. I appreciate it!

posted on Mar, 14 2010 @ 06:43 AM
reply to post by BlueOrb

Was it this post?

posted on Mar, 14 2010 @ 11:14 AM
reply to post by ArMaP

Thta was the start.....the next post, further down, expands a little bit further.

You have more time than me! Good find. Cheers.

posted on Mar, 17 2010 @ 11:44 PM
Well, I feel entirely useless posting on this this thread as blueorb, vanitas, skyfloating and others have QUITE the grasp of things on here...I figured I'd share a vid that was recently shared here on ATS.
This vid is about the possible underground Dulce base in NM, BUT it gives a story that shows how there are other spots that lead to the center of the an underground corrupted highway of sorts.. *shrug*

This is to add entertainment value to this thread, and at the very least give some "what ifs". It's verrrrry out there but hey! This is ATS.

If you're borded check out all 12 vids, at the very least it's like reading an interesting sci-fi book with some occasional bad spelling/grammar.

(could not embed.)

[edit on 17-3-2010 by Wookiep]

posted on Apr, 19 2010 @ 06:15 AM

Over a month since the last post! This cannot be allowed to happen!
Personally i have been a little busy with work, but i have been checking every day and trying to find a new avenue to open up of something to add to the story so far.....

And then suddenly, out of the blue, it happens.....

I was sitting at my desk yesterday, when a small parcel arrived. On the cover, was the logo of the "Landesverien fuer Hoehlenkunde Salzburg". It was book sized.....Surely, it couldn't be the Volume 1 of the series of cave books that i had attempted to buy on the internet from their website, and failed miserably? Surely, not the same book i then attempted to purchase from Amazon, only to find they didn't deliver to the UAE? And how could it be - after all, i hadn't paid for it!

Like a child at Christmas, i ripped the packaging to shreds, to reveal the contents.....sure enough, i am now the proud owner of Volume 1 "Salburger Hoehlenbuch" (Salzburg Book of Caves). The very same volume that features the Untersberg and all it's caves. I couldn't believe it, and couldn't stop smiling. Little things amuse little minds, i suppose.

Anyway, i've been skimming through it and i have to say it's a great book to have, especially for this forum matter. It details all of the 151 caves that had been explored at the time of printing, with lengths, descriptions, locations of entrances, and lots more information.

Also, it has a small folded map on the inside cover, which is a VERY nice touch, showing the entrances to all the caves (i.e the 151). So i photographed it, opened it in MS Paint and made the entrances red for clarity. Here it is:

It's a little large, but hopefully you will be able to see it in some form or another.

It came as a real eyeopener to me personally to see just how many cave entrances there are, and how dense they are in places.

I have highlighted two caves in yellow - The Nixloch in Hallthurm, as we have discussed it here, and also a cave called Gitschnerhoehle (aka Lazarus Gitschnerhoelhe), for obvious reasons. I don't believe this cave is anything to do with the legend itself, but suspect it was named after him by someone who explored the cave and knew about the legend.

I am sure i will pass on more information as i find it in the book - it's hard going as it's all in German and i have to find a quiet place to really take it in and understand, but it appears to be well worth the read - and the 44 Euro....erm....that is, if i had paid for it.....!

But fear not, i shall contact them and work out a way to get the money to them, but in the meantime, i shall be making full use of their "gift".

If anyone has any questions regarding caves, fire away, and hopefully i will be able to find some answers. I may even post the list of all the 151 caves in the near future - maybe the names will awaken a thought in someone.....although i am slightly disappointed that there is no mention of a cave called the "Eisernen Thur" or similar.

But on the other hand, that could also mean it is out there waiting to be rediscovered.......

It's good to be back here with something to say, and i hope to provide more info soon - whether you like it or not!!

PS : If you cannot see the whole picture, right-click and save the map, and you will be able to see everything and look a little closer....

[edit on 19-4-2010 by BlueOrb]

posted on Apr, 19 2010 @ 11:32 PM
Well done, well done Blue Orb.

Isn't it amazing how you have a desire or goal and it comes true!

Waiting patiently for your tidbits of sharing. Is it a large book? How many pages? Any additional photos? Does it tie in with the Churches and iron doors and legendary stories, or is it just about caves?

posted on Apr, 20 2010 @ 05:28 AM
reply to post by Julie Washington

I don't have it with me at present, but it's over 200 pages, i think. It's a pure cave book, with full details and many plans of the caves, but it does have a small section regarding myths of the Untersberg, including things we have already touched on in this thread (the more popular myths). I am still going through it to see if i can come across something new.

There are a few pictures in it, which are both interesting and amusing, particularly a picture of an "expedition" setting off for some caves - it basically shows members of the Oedl family, with a cart full of ropes, etc. Very basic equipment, which i suppose was ll that was required back in the 1920s, which is when the photo is from. The Oedl family (or members of it), i think were at the forefront of the cave explorations at the start of the century (20th). What is interesting is that there was a flourish of activity at the turn of the century, and then ther mountain was virtually left alone until later, well after the Second World War.

This book, i think, includes details up to 1975, when the book was published, and so later expeditions, like the one that found the underground lake (also touched on earlier in this thread), are not included.

[edit on 20-4-2010 by BlueOrb]

posted on Apr, 20 2010 @ 07:44 AM
This post is just to show the whole image, I think it deserves to be seen in full.

posted on Apr, 20 2010 @ 08:32 AM
reply to post by ArMaP

Once again, and on the same page (!), you have made up for my failures!


I had hoped the sliders would appear automatically, as i seem to have no idea how to make them appear in large pictures.....

I will post some details of the caves shortly, although i am still reading through all the information - there is a lot to take in.

One that immediately caught my eye was cave that is basically a shaft from the top of the mountain, 100m+ straight down.

It's no wonder people go missing with holes like that on the mountain.......

posted on Apr, 20 2010 @ 03:03 PM
reply to post by BlueOrb

The scroll bars only appear if we use [‍img] instead of [‍atsimg].

Near the place where I live there's a small mountain that also has some cases of people that disappeared mysteriously, they are very dangerous areas.

posted on Apr, 23 2010 @ 12:36 PM

Originally posted by BlueOrb
I may even post the list of all the 151 caves in the near future - maybe the names will awaken a thought in someone.....although i am slightly disappointed that there is no mention of a cave called the "Eisernen Thur" or similar.

But on the other hand, that could also mean it is out there waiting to be rediscovered.......

It may. It happens all the time, you know. (With a book like that, I am sure you do know.
) Caves get discovered and then people somehow "lose" them again. And rediscover them again.

Anyway is there maybe a cave with some other "metallic" name?
I mean a name that could hint at some association with iron, even if it is remote?
Folklore toponymy can be very whimsical!

posted on May, 12 2010 @ 07:38 AM
Sorry for the delay in posting – here are the names of the 151 caves that had been discovered / recorded on the Untersberg as of the date of publication of the Salzburger Hoehlenbouch, which was ……..1975! So not entirely up-to-date but better than nothing. The numbering relates to the map of the caves I posted a few posts earlier, and so you can cross reference them names to the map and see where the cave opening is on the mountain.

For those who do not speak German, and don’t want to spend hours trying to make even the slightest sense of these names, I will give you the following translations of common occurring words in the names. (I don’t want to teach anyone to suck eggs, as it were, but I would point out that generally, German names, nouns, etc are conjunctions i.e. one word is made up of two or more other words, for example Eishoehle = Ice Cave (Eis + Hoehle)

Hoehle / Hoehlen = Cave/Caves
Schacht / Scaechte – Shaft/Shafts
Loch / Loecher – Hole / Holes
Gross – Large
Klein – Small
Schnee - Snow
Eis - Ice
Mittag - Midday
Bei – Near to
Tal - Valley

1. Kolowrathoehle
2. Gamsloecher - Baerenhorst
3. Goldloch im Bierfasslkopf
4. Bierfasslhoehle
5. Bolusloch
6. Hoehlen am Dopplerstieg
7. Gitschnerhoehle
8. Tagloechersystem in der Dopplerwand
9. Karlsohr
10. Quellehoehle Fuerstenbrunn
11. Obere Fuerstenbrunnhoehlen
12. Doppelschacht im grossen Brunntal
13. Brunntalschacht
14. Orgelpfeiffenschacht
15. Schacht bei Zepperzauerhaus
16. Loiderhoehle
17. Abfalter-Durchgangshoehle
18. Rabenloecher
19. Steinerner Kaser
20. Grosser Eiskeller
21. Kleiner Eiskeller
22. Baerenloch im Abfalterkopf
23. Ochsenkammloecher
24. Scahcht bei der Mittag Scharte
25. Kuelbelschlund
26. Schellenberger Eishoehle
27. Hollerloch
28. Goldloch bei der Mittag Scharte
29. Wildshuetzenhoehle im Gruental
30. Eiswinkel
31. Windloecher bei der Klingeralm
32. Mittagsloch beim Stoerhaus
33. Mittagshalbhoehle
34. Naturfreundehoehle
35. Schachthoehle beim Stoerhaus
36. Leiterlschacht
37. Hoehlenbrunnen beim Zehnkaser
38. Scheibenkaserschacht
39. Nixloch bei Hallthurn
40. Mausloch bein Hallthurm
41. Gemeindeberghoehle
42. Drachenloch bei Groedig
43. Schaffloch beim Grossen Eiskeller
44. Dreierdoline
45.Reitsteighoehle bei der Steinernen Stiege
46.Gramsamer Schacht
47.Obere Brunntalhoehle
49.Ochsenschacht im Kleinen Wasserfalltal
50. Sigischacht
52. Rehgeleckhoehle
53. Sulzenkarhoehle
54. Grosse Hochgrabenhoehle
55. Kleine Hochgrabenhoehle
56. Canonhoehle
57. Schacht bei Kalten Bruendl
58. Mitterbergschacht
59. Grosse Wildalphoehle
60. Kleine Wildalphoehle
61. Klingertalschacht
62. Schneewindhoehle
63. Eishoehle der Saligen
64. Alte Alm-Hoehle
65. Hundsrueckenhoehle
66. Schwartzklufthoehle
67. Tiefe Schaechte auf der Kilngeralm
68. Kreuzkluft
69. Salzburgerschacht
70. Grobensteinhoehle
71. Gamsofen
72. Schneeschaechte in der Mittag Scharte
73. Eisschwerter Hoehle
74. Gruntalschacht
75. Quellhoehle Im Gruental
76. Gruebenpfadhoehle
77. Gurhoehle
78. Reifenschacht
79. Rauchkopfhoehle
80. Schachtelhoehle
81. Schachtelschacht
82. Hochthronleitenhoehle
83. Walterkluft
84. Ochsenleitenhoehle
85. Windloch in der Mittag Scharte
86. Abfalter Eisschacht
87. Schwartzer Schacht
88. Hirschloch in der Almbachklamm
89. Vogelloch bei der Mittag Scharte
90. Hirschangerhoehle
91. Schachtelloch
92. Latschenschacht
93. Kuhschacht beim Zehnkaser
94.Hirschschacht beim Reisenkaser
95. Raseneisenloch
96. Schneekeller in der Ochsenkammleiten
98. Wolfschacht beim Muckenbruendel
99. Versteckter Schacht
100. Mueckenbruendelschacht
101. Dreierweghoehle
102. Reichenhallerschacht
103. Eisenbahnerschacht
104. Schichtloch am Hirschanger
105. KB-Schacht
106. Pfadfinderhoehle
107. Schraegschacht in der Ochsenleiten
108. Fuenfzehnmeterschacht
109. Guwinorenhoehle
110. Bibelforscherdoline
111. Schweigmuehlhoehle (= 117 Laerchencanon)
112. Kargrabenhoehle
113. Kleine Alphoehle
114. Grosse Alphoehle
115. Sackloch
116. Raupenloch
117. Laerchencanon (= 111 Schweigmuehlhoehle)
118. Big Hole
119. Geweihkapelle
120. Swei-Schock-Canon
121. Wohnhoehle bei Fuerstenbrunn
122. Rotfallhoehle
123. Minicanon im Grossen Wasserfalltal
124. Dreieckschacht
125. Eiswindkluft
126. Steinernes Kircher I
127. Brueckendoline
128. Eliasschacht
129. Kieferbruch-Canon
130. Kieferbruch-Schlazkluft
131. Eishuettldoline
132. Kurtiloch
133. Cava Inominata
134. Felstorschaechte
135. Grand Canon bei der Klingeralm
136. Sommerfrischlerschacht
137. Brunnloch
138. Notloesung
139. Bauxitbergbau am Reitsteig
140. Erosionssytem I im Kuehstein
141. Erosionssytem II im Kuehstein
142. Erosionssytem III im Kuehstein (= Kirschenschiffhoehle)
143. Erosionssytem IV im Kuehstein
144. Schleimalgenschacht
145. Dachskluft
146. Obere Sulzenkarhoehle
147. Felsgratschaechte
148. Mausloch-Durchgangshoehle
149. Giftmolchhoehle
150. Improvisationscanon
151. Blaetterteigschacht

I will probably add to this information with regard to specific caves, and give some details of length, depth, type etc, in due course.

Of these 151 caves, 93 are predominantly horizontal, and 58 predominantly vertical caves. 116 are in Austria, and 35 in Germany.

Of course, my source is the Salzburger Hoehlenbuch.....

posted on May, 19 2010 @ 07:03 PM
That's impressive work you've done here!
Thanks for your time and effort.

I see there is at least one "hidden" shaft, just as one would expect; and I also see those who named them were typically creative oftentime.
(But Bibelforscherdoline?! Like, in Jehova Witnesses? Where did that come from?! Perhaps they used to meet there in the 1930s? )

Anyway, it doesn't matter, sorry for the excursion.
I see there is a Goldloch near the Mittagscharte. Anyone knows why it is called like that?

Names of caves are fascinating, and they can reveal a lot, so I am looking forward to have a better look at them when I can afford the time.

posted on May, 21 2010 @ 03:11 PM
reply to post by AdAstra

Excursion, day trip or pilgrimage, I'd like to know that, too.

But most of all, well done, Blue Orb!

This has surely grown into the most comprehensive thread - approaching an encyclopaedia - about the Untersberg online.

I hope White Eagle and other knowledgeable people - beside yourself - can keep it alive.

I'll be looking into the names of caves myself.
(But of course, locals' knowledge about the origins of their names is more than welcome!)

[edit on 21-5-2010 by Vanitas]

posted on May, 21 2010 @ 08:46 PM
And now I have a new obsession! lol

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