Untersberg - The Mystery Mountain

To sort of quote someone who said something once about a rumour going about that they had died….”Rumours of the death of this thread have been greatly exaggerated….”.

The more I consider the varying elements of what we have so far discovered about this area, the more I seem to find to expand on. I really believe that there is so much more to add to this story, and so I for one will not be letting this thread die. I certainly intend to visit again when I get the chance, which would be better after the winter, and think that at least a week is required to adequately explore even some of the information we have collectively deposited here.
I have a number of different lines of enquiry in my head, which may or may not be linked. Time is my only enemy, and although I check in every day to see if there are any developments, I cannot post adequately detailed information every visit.
So…my next piece of information….Telluric Currents. This is new to me, so apologies if you are already aware of this.
en.wikipedia.org...
“Telluric currents are phenomena observed in the Earth's crust and mantle. In September 1862, an experiment to specifically address Earth currents was carried out in the Munich Alps (Lamont, 1862). The currents are primarily induced by changes in the outer part of the Earth's magnetic field, which are usually caused by interactions between the solar wind and the magnetosphere or solar radiation effects on the ionosphere. Telluric current activity is related to thunderstorms, and recent research indicates that by causing accumulation of electrical charge on the Earth's surface, they play a vital role in turning a rain shower into a thunder storm”
Firstly……Experiment in the Munich Alps? Sounds like it could be somewhere near our favourite mountain! Unfortunately I have not traced any more details about this yet.

Another source is en.allexperts.com...
“The field varies in time and over the frequency range 0.001 to 5 Hz (Krasnogorskaja & Remizov, 1975). Electric potential gradients caused by telluric currents are of the order of 0.2 to 1000 volts per metre. (Krasnogorskaja and Remizov (1975); Vanjan (1975)). At any location, the current density is a direct function of the interhemispheric currents and their potential gradients. It has been estimated that telluric currents overall during twelve hours in one hemisphere are in range of 100 to 1000 amperes. This intensity of telluric currents is sufficient to drive the air movements that create atmospheric electricity, from the global fair weather charge accumulator to thunderstorm bases.”

Contuinued below...sorry,,,this is a bit long, but stay with it, it's worth it!

One of the leading researchers from the 19th century in this field was a Father Athanasius Kircher,
www.rialian.com...
“Fr. Kirchner echoed the medieval alchemists whose writings implied that Telluric Current contained all the power necessary to create, transform, and transmute, all the materials of the entire planet. According to the alchemists, this energy was Spiritual in content and was found to be efficacious in both creating and transmuting matter of all kinds. However, as was well known to the Victorian Science, these upwellings of Telluric Current were only found at certain specific ground-points, which were well known to the Victorians, having been marked since very ancient times. >From ancient, into medieval times, it was well know that these specific Creative energies could only be summoned by direct contact with the ground at these special sites, which were commonly held to be Sacred Land.
The Victorians prized locations deep within the Earth more highly than locations where the energy was only available at the surface of the ground. The numerous arcane grottos, and magical caverns, well known to be preferred in Victorian times by alchemists and philosophers, attest to these kinds of practices. Through a mysterious lost "masonic" architectural science, the Victorians were able to engage the powerful energies of the Telluric Current to cause alterations and upliftments of Consciousness to be experienced by the privileged individuals who had access to these sites, many of which are now included in the foundations of European churches and abbeys.
These practices appear to have originated with the Knights Templar, not their stone-mason servants. Templar architectural science employed very specific ground placements and architectural alignments. The Templars required of the stone-masons, specially selected "harmonic" geometries and the construction of mathematically-proportioned stone-chamber volumes. The Cathedral system produced by the Knights Templar had little to do with the mere exercise of military government of national regions. These constructions also exceeded the purpose of being merely mirrored-light communications towers. Templar constructions were also not reflections of some Kabbalistic system, designed to remind some of some mystical codifications.
The Cathedral system was a potent energetic system, designed exclusively to take advantage of specific upwellings of Telluric currents, with the transmutation of Earth and the human Consciousness, being the ultimate goals.
Once secured from the Earth, these powerful energetic currents were conducted by the precisely constructed stonework, allowed to expand and process through various large stone chambers, where the continually inter-twining currents would concentrate, shift, magnify, bifurcate, and ultimately interact with the chosen few. All the immense energy of the Telluric Current was put through these modulations specifically for the purpose of magnifying the Consciousness Awareness, and the intellects and hearts of the chosen few. This science can be traced historically as a rediscovery and a permuted extension of the more ancient science of Geomancy, harkening us back to the later discoveries of Luigi Galvani and Anton Mesmer.”

So what about Telluric Currents in the Untersberg area? We already have mentions of Ley Lines, so it follows, if Ley Lines = Telluric Currents, there should be a map somewhere….

This is the map of Europe I found:



And this is a closer view around the Untersberg area (as a guide, north Italian coastline is at bottom of the pic).



Three Telluric Lines run through the area, very close, according to this information.

Continued in next post again....stay with me people!

I failed to make a note of the source when I downloaded this picture, but I will try and find it again and post the source if required.
So we have powerful earth energy running through the area, magnetic anomalies from the mountain itself, and all this interacting with solar winds. Add to that the mentioned interest of the Templars in utilising these currents to connect their churches to some higher level of consciousness, and things really come together.


Did the Templars follow these currents to Untersberg, whewre they found an incredibly strong presence, added to by the other factors?
Were the Nazis also aware of this, and hence chose this as their second seat of power?

As for alignment issues I mentioned recently, I have now re-checked Alpenfestung.com, and on a new page, it now says that the Kehlsteinhaus is built on a powerful leyline .(www.alpenfestung.com...). “Auch geomantisch hat das Kehlsteinhaus eine Bedeutung. Ist es doch auf einer grossen Ley Linie errichtet und dementsprechend ausgerichtet. = “Also in Geomancy, the Kehlsteinhaus has a meaning. It is in fact built on a large ley line, and aligned accordingly”.

Apologies if this information is scattered and poorly presented – Imagine what my head is like!

If you've got this far...thanks for sticking with it!

reply to post by Wookiep


Thaks for your comments. I hope that my ramblings are contributing in some way to expanding this thread, and keeping it going, (and hopefully moving it forward).

And if me and Vanitas did "get a room", i am sure we could talk for hours!

It is a good source of encouragement to keep things going and do more research when you "meet" someone who it seems is on the same wavelength. I know that it has certainly encouraged me to take the little time i seem to be able to find at the moment to look further, and for that i am thankful.

reply to post by BlueOrb


Great post(s)!

I just want to add that those Telluric Currents, in Portugal, pass where I live and near Tomar, where the nights Templar, after being renamed to Order of Christ, had their headquarters.

reply to post by BlueOrb


Hear hear!

It's great to see this thread moving along, as it deserves.
And, once again, great work, BlueOrb.
(Watch it, Wookiep! )






[edit on 23-11-2009 by Vanitas]

reply to post by ArMaP


Could you post more details about it?
(I am sure people wouldn't mind information about other "odd" places.)

There are tales of little people and regular people living past 100, with good health, in the area west of Lake Superior.

Thanks again Sky!

reply to post by Vanitas


I really don't have more to say about it, it's a subject that I never followed.

Sorry.

But I can try to find answers to specific questions.

reply to post by ArMaP


Interesting information.

Maybe it's not so crazy to believe that the Templars consciously built their churches, etc, on or near to these currents on purpose.

I very much doubt they knew exactly what Telluric Currents were, and like so many things in times gone by, when something is discovered and no scientific explanation exists, the spiritual explanation is adopted.

Originally posted by BlueOrb
reply to post by Wookiep

 

Thaks for your comments. I hope that my ramblings are contributing in some way to expanding this thread, and keeping it going, (and hopefully moving it forward).

And if me and Vanitas did "get a room", i am sure we could talk for hours!

It is a good source of encouragement to keep things going and do more research when you "meet" someone who it seems is on the same wavelength. I know that it has certainly encouraged me to take the little time i seem to be able to find at the moment to look further, and for that i am thankful.

I hardly see your posts as "rambling" I find them to be quite informative, and I'm glad for your quest to keep this thread "alive"! and whos to say you and Vanitas can't *meet* !! I'm positive you can! I'm as positive on that as I am the two of you can go to Untersberg and get some really good stuff!! The possibilities from that scenario are limitless!

Ps to Vanitas: I'm sorry, I'll try to "watch it"! *ducks and runs away*

The source for the map of Telluric currents used in my earlier posts is the following article:

www.nap.edu...

"The Earth's Electrical Environment".

I have just found a brand new documentray film entitled "Mysterious Places - The Untersberg Mountain" by Richard Ladkani and Lisa Eder. It has only been released in the last two weeks or so, and what's even better, it is available to view in glorious HD at :

www.richardladkani.com...

It centres around the legends of Kaiser Karl and Lazarus Eigner, but focuses on the interest in the mountain of 3 individuals of the area - Christian Uhlir (geologist, and also responsible for Untersberg.net, i believe), Alexander Steinwenzler (artist) and (and for me the most intersting participant), Father Herbert Schmatzberger a priest. What is most interesting about him, is that he is the Priest of the Grossgmain church that is one of the "Untersberg churches". And yet this is not mentioned or explored in the documentary at all! They have obviously not checked out us here in ths thread, as we have researched and discovered a whole wealth more information!

I suppose i will just have to write that documentary/book/feature film myself then!

On the subject of the churches, i have now mapped around 10 of them on my Google Earth, and have already identified some nice alignment issues! Just having trouble pinpointing the last couple, due to vague details of exactly which church i am looking for! A little more digging is required, and then i will post here.

Check out the documentary - unfortunately it is all in German, so if you don't speak-a-da-language you will just have to enjoy the HD pictures, including some nice aerial photography and a climb down inside the mountain.

Well worth 27 minutes of your time!

[edit on 27-11-2009 by BlueOrb]

reply to post by BlueOrb


Thanks for the great find. I'm watching the video right now. I am also one of those that is glad to see this thread move forward...

I was hoping someone would start a thread on mysterious caves as there are others. I started a listed but don't have the time (right now) to put together all the info.

The Untersberg is a great story and I will continue to follow along. I appreciate all the research you guys have done.

reply to post by BlueOrb


I must admit, this thread and the data it provides would have been difficult to ignore for any film-maker... (But how do you cite it? )

However, even if the documentary is brand new, it still could have been in the works for years. And there could be some undisclosed, subjective reasons for withholding certain information.

And BTW, I think an "independent" production really is a good idea.
Maybe ATS can provide the funds for it?
(Isn't there a wink wink - nudge nudge icon?)


Awaiting the forthcoming information about the churches - impatiently!




[edit on 27-11-2009 by Vanitas]

Originally posted by Julie Washington
I was hoping someone would start a thread on mysterious caves as there are others. I started a listed but don't have the time (right now) to put together all the info.

Julie, you don't have to put together ALL the information.
Just state the intention of the thread and post what you do have.

@ Vanitas – Thanks for your patience........ !

All things come to those who wait, and so here it is.

The “ 12 Untersberg churches” are listed as follows on www.untersberg.org :
1. St. Bartholomä – am Königssee
2. Dom von Salzburg
3. Kirchenthal = Maria Kirchental bei Lofer
4. Feldkirchen bei Ainring
5. Gmain = Großgmain (Marienkirche !)
6. Seekirchen (Wallersee/Sbg.: Petruskirche)
7. Maxglan (Stadtteil v. Sbg.: Maximilianskirche)
8. St. Michael im Lungau (SalzburgerLand)
9. St. Gilgen am Wolfgangsee
10. St. Zeno in Bad Reichenhall
11. Mariaegg = Maria Eck bei Siegsdorf
12. St. Peter und Paul in Bad Reichenhall (no longer exists)


In addition I have found two other listed on www.kraftort.org, which lists “14 Untersberg Churches”

Maria Gern
Stifftskirche Berchtesgaden

I have no idea whether the actual churches number 12 or 14, but going back to the Lazarus Eigner story, only 12 doorways to churches are mentioned. But for the sake of this post, I will work with the 14.

I have now plotted the locations of these churches on the following map:



The churches are deonoted by the yellow circles, the Untersberg Mittagsscharte and Hoher Goll by green circles, and the Berghof, Kehsteinhaus and Isais temple by red circles.




Rather annoyingly, St Michael im Lungau is so far away it spoils the zoomed in picture! So for the close up, I have just concentrated on the main area around the Untersberg. You will see two lines heading off to the bottom right showing alignments – these lead to St Michael’s Church.

As an example of “alignments” I have found, and to make it easier to understand my rudimentary lines drawn on Google Earth, I will list them as follows:

Salzberg Dom – Isais Temple – Berghof – Kehlsteinhaus
Hoher Goll – Isais Temple – Max Glan
Salzberg Dom – Kehlsteinhaus – St Bartholomew
Feldkirchen – Untersberg – Berghof – Hoher Goll
Feldkirchen – St Zeno – Maria Kirchental
Maria Eck – St Zeno – Maria Grossgmain – (Close to Untersberg) – Isais Temple
Max Glan – Isais Temple – Hoher Goll
Salzberg Dom – Stifftskirche Berchtesgaden - (close to Maria Gern) – St Bartholomew
Maria Kirchental – Maria Gern – St Gilgen
Maria Eck – St Batholomew – St Michael
St Michael – Hoher Goll – Kehlsteinhaus – Stifftskirche Berchtesgaden – St Zeno
Seekirchen – Max Glan – Grossgmain – Maria Kirchental

I believe that with a bit more study, and more accurate lines, further alignments are possible. I also suspect that more alignments with other more recent (Nazi) buildings may well exist. But this will take further time to research. For the time being I will leave it as this.

On Untersberg.org they plot the churches generally (not on a map, but just as dots centred around the Untersberg), and link each individual church back to the Untersberg, which serves as just one central point. This is to depict the Untersberg as the centrepoint for these churches, and show the lines of energy emanating out from the mountain.
I personally think that a truer depiction of what is going on there is the link between the churches themselves (i.e alignments), rather than individual links with the mountains.

And by the way, if you see pictures of some of these churches, they are worth a visit, just to see them.

There is probably more work to do with this, I just don’t know in which direction at the moment.

If anyone has any further thoughts, feel free to add them here.

reply to post by BlueOrb


Whoa - another good one!
I think you really may be on to something.

(And I wonder, how much did Bormann - or his advisers, if he had any - know about these things? Obviously, a rhetorical question... )

I'll see if I can come up with some idea myself, after reviewing these patterns.
(There seems to be a sort of pentagram emerging - but I'd rather not rush to any conclusions.)
And I hope other - better informed - visitors to this board will have a look or two themselves.







[edit on 29-11-2009 by Vanitas]

reply to post by Vanitas


I noticed the start of a pentagram too....and quickly put it to the back of my mind!! My opinion is that such a shape would invariably occur when you start to join points like this - i put it down to pure coincidence...but then again i am here to be proved wrong!

If you want the coordinates of the various churches (most of which are very accurately placed, some are almost there but not quite), let me know. I wasn't going to post them up here but i will if necessary.

One thing that i will put up, and i haven't quite decided whether or not it is relevant, or i have just been looking at Google earth too much, is the following comparison.

While searching for the Wallfahrtskirche Grossgmain, i noticed a ruin on the outskirts of the town. It was the shape that drew my particular attention....i seemed to recognise it. It is located on a hill to the east.

The ruins are that of Burg Plain, or Plainsburg Castle, which dates back originally to the 1100's, and had further works done in the 1400's and onwards.

I realised that the shape it reminded me of was Montsegur, France. Mountainstronghold of the Cathars and one time (allegedly) home of the Holy Grail.

I then got to thinking a bit further......and remembered the comparison i have already posted regarding the Kehlsteinhaus and Montsegur.

I have collected the aerial pictures of Kehlsteinhaus and Plain Burg from Google Earth. Unfortunately i couldn't get a decent view on Montsegur from there, so i have included a plan from www.cathars.org.





Top: Montsegur, Bottom Left: Plain Burg, Bottom Right: Kehsteinhaus

Another comparison - note the entrances of Montsegur and Plainburg, circled in red (by me). They both occur in the same position relative to the overall shape.

It might be just the common shape for mountaintop fortresses of the 1100's, but remember these two buildings are hundreds of miles apart.
And if you go with this link, the Kehlsteinhaus was built a further 700 years or so later, albeit with secret society knowledge/input (allegedly!).

Like i say - it may be nothing and maybe i need to lay off Google eart for a few days. As always, i will put it put it out there for your consideration.

reply to post by BlueOrb


I KNEW I shouldn't come back to peep just before bedtime...!

I totally agree one has to be cautious - VERY cautious - regarding the similarities in structure and blueprint, especially considering the fact that the location itself (on a rocky mountain top, both at Montségur and here) dictates certain shapes that have to be observed for purely structural reasons.

On the other hand, it would be a legitimate question to ask: why WAS
the "Teehaus" built on such a location, in the first place (especially considering everything that has already been discussed in this thread, including Hitler's vertigo)?

And when seen in context, I think it would be more reckless completely to disregard the similarities than to speculate on them.

It just occurred to me that it might be a good idea to see if the patrocinies of the churches tell us anything interesting in this regard... (Probably nothing - but I'll investigate it all the same, as soon as I can afford the time.)

Also - and this is just an idle (well, almost) side question - does anyone know why wasn't Speer commissioned to plan the construction?

P.S. I really think this corpus of data - specifically, about the location and position of built structures (sacred and profane) in the area - deserves a new thread. It would be much more manageable.






[edit on 29-11-2009 by Vanitas]