PARA: Untersberg - The Mystery Mountain

reply to post by BlueOrb

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This is an amazing post!
(Even though the mention of Kehlstein still upsets me somewhat... )

How come nobody has replied to this so far?
I would have expected this post to have a galaxy of stars by now.

Whether you're onto something or not: well done, Blue Orb!
(BTW, I did find the similarity between the two structures more striking and interesting than such comparisons usually are.)














[edit on 6-10-2009 by Vanitas]

reply to post by Vanitas

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BTW, would Michael be willing to share more of his findings?
From what you suggested it sounds like we could learn A LOT from him.
(And he certainly couldn't hope for a bigger audience than this site. )
Then again, he might not be thrilled with such exposure.)








[edit on 6-10-2009 by Vanitas]

reply to post by Vanitas

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Well thank you very much for your kind words! I notice i now have two stars.......never happened to me before!!! I'm guessing one is from you, so Thanks!

I just put it out there for discussion - if no-one wants to discuss it or add to it, it's OK with me.

Unfortunately i haven't had much time to do any further digging, but when i do get the time i shall hopefully add to the info already posted.

The guy from Alpenfestung.net has a lot of info already out there on his site, which if you can read/understand German is readily available. I hope to be able to communicate a bit more with him on this subject, as i think he has a lot of information that he still has to upload to the site - especially about the Berg-Berghof-Berg line.

Another thing i want to do is link the 12 (or 13) church sites together (although some actual buildings no longer exist), and see how they fit into the big scheme of things. Also, there is a Leyline that runs through the area - through Bad Reichenhall, heading i think South East. It's the Karlsruhe to Berchtesgaden Ley Line, and i believe it carries on across the globe. I want to map this (in a crude, one line fashion, probably) also. I don't personally know a lot about ley lines, but i brought up previously in this thread that i thought that perhaps the "tunnels" that are said to connect these churches, and perhaps the "tunnel" from the Koenigssee to the Untersberg could be more of a magnetic/energy "tunnel" or path, rather than a physical tunnel that has been carved out of the ground. I reckon these paths, or tunnels must connect into the ley line, which would form some sort of "power grid". I read somewhere that quite often churches are built on ley lines, or intersections of ley lines, where the "energy" can be quite high. For energy, i am assuming geomagnetic activity, and not the spiritual sort. I can't look at it that way, i'm afraid!

And because you are so nice, i have added you to my Friends list.

[edit on 7-10-2009 by BlueOrb]

This mountain reminds me a bit about a story on "picnic at hanging rock" where a group of school children went missing, whether true or not.
www.castleofspirits.com...

and as well to an aboriginal legend that "little people" cause the minds of those who see them to go crazy. These beings prefering the darkness and travelling around their set territorys during the night causing mischief to man who is on their so-called land.

reply to post by BlueOrb

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Well, I can imagine that after doing such a good job and presenting it, all the rest - including stars (you bet one was mine!) and perhaps even verbal feedback - becomes of secondary importance.

But I am puzzled; all the more so because during this latest "round" of mine in the ATS arena I've been noticing in many threads that many outstandingly interesting and/or informative posts that would previously get lots of attention now consistently pass unnoticed.
Whatever it is that's happening, it's very odd.

Anyway, I am certainly eager to see your next findings.

BTW, regarding Hitler's statement about the location not being a coincidence, and based on the circumstances when he is supposed to have said that, I had the impression - or rather, an "intuition" - that he was probably alluding to the ancient legend of the sleeping king that will rise when his people are in need of him. (Especially considering the "uniting" role this king would supposedly have, which seemed to fit well with the ideology behind the Anschluss of H.'s homeland.)
But now, after reading this... I am not so sure that the straightforward allegoric or symbolic (or whatever) explanation covers all of it.

Thanks again - great work!


P.S.




And because you are so nice I did the same as early as last night. :-)
(I swear, I can actually SEE eyes rolling all around... )










[edit on 7-10-2009 by Vanitas]

reply to post by redgy

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I can see why it would remind you of Hanging Rock.
The incident depicted in the film, unfortunately, WAS entirely fictional (and you wouldn't believe how many people were literally heart-broken when they found out).

But I am sure the "rock" isn't as awe-inspiring as it is for nothing.
It probably is a genuine "sacred" mountain.

reply to post by redgy

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That's a good website.
(Loved how they misspelled director Peter Weir's name, calling him "Weird". )

RE the post drawing connective lines... I don't know if it really means anything or not but it does make good reading. And I also noticed how many good posts go ignored. I just thought that's the way things are here.... Loads of politics on one side and extreme wierdness on the other.
Maybe the thread is too long already?





[edit on 7-10-2009 by Ethereal Gargoyle]

reply to post by BlueOrb

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In the absence of discussion, I tried to verify the information about the length of the shaft and the corridor (actually, to "translate" the length into metres, for my own benefit :-).
According to this article (not that I am "recommending" it or anything), they are indeed the exact same length: 124 metres.

This thread being so long, I don't recall (and I am too sleepy to search) whether Arthur Mitchell's book has been mentioned here - probably - but I think it bears another mention.

And I tried to visit the Alpenfestung (.NET) website, but I can't get past the log-in page. I did find a very interesting website on Alpensfestung.COM.

Anyway, the possibility - even if it is just that: a possibility - of a connection to the Cathars is fascinating.

The more I read about the Nazis, the more puzzling they appear...











[edit on 7-10-2009 by Vanitas]

reply to post by Vanitas

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Ok...you're scaring me now!

Either I am a a schizophrenic, and i am in fact now answering a post that the "other" me posted...

or

You are stalking me, to such an extent you know exactly what i am doing and thinking.....

or

We are on exactly the same wavelength here!

I will go for the second option.....err......sorry, I meant the third option!!!

Late last night, when should have been sleeping, i found this article: www.goarticles.com...

Which is an almost word for word copy of the article you have posted above, but on a different site. I think the 407ft, or rather the 124 metres, has the definite significance we suspected. The Theomatic link is very very interesting - i'm surprised you never mentioned that in Theomatics, 124 apparently means "Eden". Even in the same article, it is metnioned that the Nazis, in their quest to establish the roots of the Teutonic or Aryan race, believed that they had emerged from an "Eden-like" land.

Quote from the article:

"Some esoteric authors write that the Eagle's Nest was built with secret societies' knowledge and that its positions are not random. The 124-meter long tunnel and the 124-meter long lift shaft made in the rock must give you a hunch that the number 124 was not randomly chosen. Perhaps we cross here the threshold of theomatics - a science that deals with "numbers of God's mathematics".

Albeit Nazis totally turned away from God with their heinous deeds, much of their occult beliefs have still remained unexposed to the public. Theomatics works with the numerical interpretation of the Bible. This science is based upon the fact that every letter of the Greek and Hebrew alphabet has its number. In this concept, the number 124 is for Eden." (End of quote)

There's definitely something going on here, and it wouldn't surprise me if there are more "coincidences" like this to be found in the area. After all, the Nazis took this mountain retreat of Obersalzberg and turned it into their own mountain fortress (Alpenfestung!). That was no coincudence. It was chosen.

Looks like between us we can kick start this thread back into action!

Nice work.

reply to post by Vanitas

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Oh, and one more thing.....

The buses that used to take the passengers from the Obersalzberg to the Kehlstein Haus bus terminal, until fairly recently, were manufactured by Mercedes Benz Evobus.

The model number?

0 407........

Yes....407.

407ft = 124m (give or take 5cm).

(........*cue the music from the Twighlight Zone*........)

That has got be be just a coincidence, but a good one at that!

Source



[edit on 8-10-2009 by BlueOrb]

See?
I'll go with the »twin I never had« (see earlier posts)...




I didn't mention it because I didn't really read the article; I was so sleepy I let the search/find function do most of the work for me. The last thing I remember reading was the mention of Hitler's mustaches resembling a bird... OK, that was enough for me.
But I should have read it in its entirety: it's really not bad.





I know I'll be kicking someone...
(Myself, most likely.)

With so many wild goose chases on this site one would think substantial, measurable information would be welcome.

We'll see.













[edit on 8-10-2009 by Vanitas]

reply to post by BlueOrb

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It probably is a coincidence – but it is a fun one.

You know, not too long ago, I wouldn't even think, not for a second, of it being anything but a coincidence.

But... who knows, really?
I still think coincidences and »chance« probably do exist.
But the reality is there seem to be in the universe variables and constants that are as yet unrecognised.

And numerology perhaps shouldn't be dismissed by »rational« people as quickly as it usually is.
After all, all there is is based on math. The problem is we only recognise the uppermost layer of numerical values – their »face« value, so to speak – but have little or no concept of what these superficial levels may be rooted in.








[edit on 8-10-2009 by Vanitas]

I noticed that!
To invoke Freud would be a reckless waste of resources...




Possibly.
I can see no other reasonable explanation.









[edit on 8-10-2009 by Vanitas]

reply to post by Vanitas

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I think you are right about numerology, or however you want to term it.

Have you heard of the "Golden Number" - Phi = 1.618.....? Also known as the Divine Ratio.

This number, as a ratio, exists in many areas of life - the natural world, the human body, earth itself. It even occurs in the building of the Pyramids in Egypt.


For a bizarre but very interesting read, have a look at the website

goldennumber.net...


This will give a very good overview.

As a very brief test, and i must admit out of a lot of curiosity, i printed off the Google earth map i posted on the previous page, with the Berg-Berghof-Berg Line and the Kehlstein-Berhof-Temple line. (Printed size A3). Bearing in mind the pins i dropped on Google Earth are fairly accurate but only to within the correct area, i measured the length of the line from the Mittagsscharte to the Berghof (113mm), and from the Berghof to the Hoher Goell summit (70mm). 113 divided by 70 is 1.614285714. Phi is 1.618. Not a bad coincidence - only 0.004 away from being in the Golden Ratio proportion. Allowing for the placement of the markers, and not having an exact reference point for the Berghof (it's not actually there any more, so somehwere in the middle had to do), it's not a bad result.

Unfortunately, no such luck with the Kehlstein-Temple dimension. But it wouldn't surprise me to find this ratio present somewhere in the construction of the Kehlsteinhaus itself - after all the main area of the building (now the restaurant is i believe Octagonal).

And regarding the thread possibly being "too long" - I think that what started out as a discussion about the "mystery" of the Untersberg has taken so many different paths (legends, myths, time portals, Knights Templar, Nazis, the Dalai Lama, who, incidentally has still not replied), that there is so much to read, think about, research, that it inevitably stalls from time to time, while "we" are thinking. I still believe there is far more to be discovered and reported in this thread, and most of all it is being conducted in an adult, sensible and cooperative way. No sarcasm. No arguments. Polite. Friendly. It's by far the best thread i have come across here on ATS - I have learned so much, and hopefuly contributed a little bit to the overall discussion. Long may it continue, as i believe there is so much more to discover about this place.



[edit on 8-10-2009 by BlueOrb]

Have I heard about it?
A few years ago I was nearly obsessed by it.
I even bought a monograph about it!
(And now I don't even remember its author's name... )

Anyway, as you were posting this, I was thinking it might be a good idea to collect all the interpretations of the number 124 that undoubtedly would have been known (at least in esoteric circles) at the time of the Nazi regime.

Here's what I've come up with so far (it's not much, but it's something):


In mathematics:

124 is the sum of eight consecutive primes (5 + 7 + 11 + 13 + 17 + 19 + 23 + 29). It is a nontotient since there is no integer with 124 coprimes below it, it is an untouchable number since there is no integer whose proper divisors add up to 124.
In base 5 it is a repdigit.


And in Hebrew gematria:

(IMPORTANT: I cannot get the Hebrew characters to show, so do refer to the original website.)


- 124 - 124 = 22x31

--- (684 w/f); almug trees; red sandal-wood.


--- pr.n. "God is My Praises".
-
--- (774 w/f); pr.n. "Son of Kindness".


--- (844 w/f); a passing by, forsaking.


--- (774 w/f); strong, mighty.


--- (844 w/f); pr.n. "Tearful".


--- (774 w/f); pr.n. "Yah is Gracious".


--- a torch or lamp.

--- pr.n. "Adorned" --- in modern times, a title used for a successor to the Caliph of Islam.

--- a covering or mantle.

--- (684 w/f); surroundings or environs; neighbors.


--- the property of Yahweh.

--- (774 w/f); a sort of linen undergarment like a shirt or shift.


--- (774 w/f); to be soft, delicate or pleasant; to indulge or delight oneself.

--- to bind.
--- delights or pleasures, delicacies; pr. n. "Delight", Eden.
--- pr. n. "Pleasantness", a place in Mesopotamia or Assyria.
--- till now, yet.
--- time; a season; a year.

--- to bind.


And here is another, Bible-related numerical database.

Number 124


Maybe seeing all these meanings and interpretations lumped together sparks someone's imagination and leads to new insights...











[edit on 8-10-2009 by Vanitas]

Oh, absolutely!

It's precisely because it's so fantastic that I said it's the only "rational" explanation I can think of (for it being so unusually "slow" these days).

Too much of a good thing...?

Let's hope not.







[edit on 8-10-2009 by Vanitas]

damn...you guys logged off before i could ask a question...ok here it goes for a later time.

what if the 1 party that went down in 2008, into these caves and couldn't go any farther, because of a deep hole that dropped down, had a camera on a long rope and dropped it down the hole to take pictures or video?

and what if one of you (vanitas or blueorb) did the same on your next trip to the mountain?

[edit on 8-10-2009 by jimmyx]

reply to post by jimmyx

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Might i be the first to propose it's Vanitas who goes deep into the mountain, further than anyone else has gone.......I'll take care of the stuff outside if that's OK!!!!

Going that far into the mounatin unfortunately takes experienced potholers, spelunkers or whatever the correct term is.

What would be great is if someone with that level of experience was interested in the mountain and the area to the extent that we are on this thread. I am sure that what we are discussing here adds that extra dimension (pardon the very obvious pun there...) to exploring the caves.

@ Vanitas - yes. You are correct. It was Alpenfestung.com, not ".net". My bad.

I may be totally wrong - I should really ask a cousin of mine who is better versed in such expeditions than myself - but I believe infrared cameras adapted to such purposes are more expensive than one might think. (Which is why there isn't all that much deep cave footage around.)
And while such an expedition to the Untersberg caves seems like a tantalising idea here, on this forum, one would have to invest quite an effort to find a cave explorer who shares both the passion to go down there AND the conviction that there might be more to Untersberg than meets the eye (or the camera).

Still, there might be such people right here, on this board.
If so, I hope they make themselves heard...

reply to post by BlueOrb

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Oh, I know quite a few people who would heartily agree with your proposal...
In fact, I am one myself!
Unfortunately, I m not experienced enough to go any deeper than my cellar.

As to the discussion here... After last year's "boom" of this thread, I was expecting to find a procession of people banging on the slopes of the Untersberg to get in. (No, really!)
My fears - and hopes - were unfounded.
But I definitely agree that this thread might be so far the most comprehensive compilation of thoughts about the subject.

Let's not let it die.