PARA: Untersberg - The Mystery Mountain

Yeah...

Some things never change

Like an obsession with hooking up with the underworld and it's residents on the part of megalomaniacal world leaders

worlds deepest caves



4 of the top 10 deepest caves in the world including the Top 2

Are in Georgia

Specifically Abkhazia

and where 4 of the deepest caves on earth are, there are many more

here's the one we are told is deepest

Krubera Veronga

very nice post! - very interesting, as there is not much info about it, and whatever there is is interesing.

For example from greyfalcon



A whole secret society was formed at this mountain.

"Black-Purple stone"
"Lords of the Black Stone"

oo the story gets deeper

Ok, here´s the translation of the german newspaper article on page 1, because I haven´t found a translation anywhere else in this thread. I´m not a native english speaker, so please forgive any errors in grammar or vocabulary.



"Munich – Five days of darkness around. Five days, in which only headlamps show the way, which suddenly discontinues and gives way to canyons, that seem to be without a ground.

That´s the way through Untersberg (1973 meters) in the region of "Berchtesgadener Land", bavaria´s most mysterious mountain (see below). For the first time, a bavarian-swabian expedition has managed to descent more than one kilometer from the entrance in a heigth of 1879 meters. The five members of the consortium for speleology in "Bad Cannstadt" made it to a depth of 1056 meters to the brink of the "Riesending-Schachthöhle" (a cave).

In Germany nobody has ever descended that far into a cave. Bärbel Vogel, chairwoman of the association of german speleology, called this a sensation.

Dr. Ulrich Meyer of the consortium "Bad Cannstadt" explained how this was possible: "The team could conquer (?) a very narrow part of the corridor at the hitherto end of the cave."

In doing so, the expedition discovered 800 meters of new corridors that were measured. In a depth of 930 meters a lake was found, that could only be crossed by a rubber boat. The lake lies at about the same height of the hamlet Ettenberg. "If there was an exit, we could have went out and have a snack at the local restaurant.", says participant of the expedition Thomas Matthalm (32). Unfortunately, this exit doesn´t exist in "Riesending" (giant thing), the giant cave, that was created by the lime-dissolving power of water, and whose chasms and caves keep people´s fantasy busy for centuries. Rightly so? Matthalm: "We speleologists make jokes about it ourselves, looking for swords or something like that just for fun, or for emperor Barbarossa himself...". Maybe something that hardens the myth will be found in one of the all in all 60 caves of the Untersberg. Because at least the end of the cave "Riesending" seems not be have been reached. "It could go deeper for 150 meters", thinks speleologist Matthalm. And theoretically, the end of the cave lies 4 kilometers further, in the cave of the well of Fürstenbrunn. A follow-up expedition is already planned...

The myths of Untersberg

It is mysterious and legendary: The Untersberg – called "sleeping dragon" by the Dalai Lama. The myths tell about time portals, lost persons and wondrous mountain dwellers like dwarfs. According to a legend, these dwarfs digged out the more than 400 caves in the Untersberg. But this is only one of many speculations about the mountain.

It is rumored, that emperor Karl the Great (similar is claimed about Friedrich Barbarossa) sleeps in the mountain in a subterrainian throne room together with his truthful knights and dwarfs for more than a thousand years. He´ll awake to the last battle between Good an Evil, when his beard has grown around his marmor table 3 times and the ravens don´t fly around the mountain peaks anymore.

Many legends deal with disappearance. Once, a lost hunter is said to have suddenly appeared to his own mourning service one year after his disappearance. According to another myth, an entire wedding company including the band disappeared in the Untersberg for 100 years.

Perhaps the most mysterious story in recent times began on Aug. 14th of the year 1987: On this day, a couple from Munich, Hermann and Maria F., together with their friend Monika K. started for a mountain tour at Untersberg. After this day, the trio was missing without a trace, and was supposed to be dead. Three months later, in mid-november, the missing persons suddenly called from a telephone on a ship in the Red Sea."



I hope this helps....

Legend

reply to post by jfj123

---

So did that one cave story just end in 01 he never updated it, did he die or something trying to conquer the cave?

reply to post by Demandred

---

I think you may be talking about the Dyatlov Pass incident? 9 missing hikers found amidst some very unusual circumstances? That's another good one, there's a decent overview of it at Wikipedia:

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by Cardozofan

---

The story's fiction. Parabol linked to the debunking thread:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 25/8/2008 by Thousand]

Excellent post, thanks for your time and effort. I am thoroughly intrigued and believe it or not I have never heard of these mountain stories before.

Do you know if the 3 people that went missing and turned up on a boat heading for Egypt were interviewed? Seems strange there isn't any info on it?

Well done again fantastic read.

Very interesting thread you have made here, and thanks for that!

One thing though: all this information... are you able to hand out some sources for all this information? It would be very much appreciated.

[edit on 25-8-2008 by DwaynetheSpecious]

Some general info:

Untersberg FAQ - frequently asked questions

Where does the name Untersberg derive from? The oldest written document of the name Untersberg can be found in the records by archbishop Kondrad IV of Salzburg from June 28th, 1306 and is written as Vndarnsperch. The meaning of the name can be derived from "untern", which was the saying for an afternoon snack in this area. When the sun was above the mountain - viewed from the City of Salzburg - it was time for a rest and for a snack. Concerning an older opinion it is the "Berg der Unteren" - the mountain of the people carried away.

How old is Untersberg? The mainly carbonatic rocks developed between 230 and 60 million years ago, the uplift started about 70 million years ago, it happened in batches and it still continues.
Important fossil sites Wolfschwang, Hipporiten (Ochsenhörndl), about 65 million years old, displayed in Haus der Natur
Largest fossil found Ammonite from the Untersberg marble, about 2.5 m in diameter, displayed in Haus der Natur
The highest peaks Berchtesgadener Hochthron: 1972 m; Rauheck: 1892 m; Gamsalpkopf: 1888 m; Salzburger Hochthron: 1853 m; Mitterberg: 1840 m; Geiereck (hilltop station of the cable-car): 1805 m
Size of the plateau about 17 km²
Size of Untersberg about 70 km²
Number of caves known about 400, 151 described in the Salzburger Höhlenbuch I & IVof the Landesverein für Höhlenkunde in Salzburg
The largest caves Gamslöcher-Kolowrats-system and the Windlöcher-system with a length of about 16.9 km
Known ice-caves Schellenberg ice-cave, Kolowrats cave (ice melted away to a large extent) and Großer Eiskeller (Karl ice-cave)
The deepest ice-cave Salzburg shaft, about 600 m deep (known)
Finds of cave-bears Gamslöcher - Bärenhorst, finds displayed in Haus der Natur

How much water does Salzburg obtain from Untersberg Today about 460 liters/second (75-80% of the consumption of the city), see water museum on Mönchsberg
First water pipes to the City of Salzburg In 1661 by Archbishop Guidobald Count Thun (but the wooden pipes did not withstand the pressure), in 1875 the first cast iron pipes, 9.2 km long, from the moated castle Fürstenbrunn to the high-level tank on Mönchsberg
When have the shelters of the Alpenvereins been erected Zeppezauer House (former Untersberg house) in 1883, Stöhr House in 1993

How old is the Untersberg cable-car? Finished in 1961

Since when does alpine dairy farming exist? Known since the 13th century, today only the alpine pastures Zehnerkaser and Reisenkaser at the Berchtesgadener Hochthron are in operation.

Where do ball-mills still exist? In Fürstenbrunn near the Untersberg Museum and at the entrance to the Almbach gorge

Investigators of Untersberg Eberhard Fugger 1842 - 1919 (geology, hydrology, speleology and meteorology)
Forest owner, largest area Fam. Mayr Melnhoff about 6000 hectares, since 1986
First ascent At the beginning of the 12th century by Eberwein (1111 - 1142), the Probst of the augustinian monastery of Berchtesgaden, first alpinists: the ecclesiastic Valentin Stanig climbed the Untersberg around 1800, first ascent along the east ridge by Ludwig Purtscheller towards the end of the 19th century
Construction of the paths Weinsteig (from Fürstenbrunn to Schweigmühlalm) in 1873, path from Glanegg to Kolowrats cave and Doppler path in 1876, Schellenberg ice-cave in 1925 and Thomas Eder path (Mittagsscharte) in 1937.

Background for mythology. The Untersberg myths have their origin in the political propaganda of the early Middle Ages which has been embellished with fabulous creatures. They often deal with Emperor Karl the Great (but also with Barbarossa and Friedrich II), who sleeps within the mountain in an underground throne room with his abiders such as knights and dwarfs. When his beard has grown around his marble table three times and when the ravens have stopped circling around the summit, then the Emperor wakes up and gives his last battle between the good and the evil at the pear tree of Wals. After the victory, the Emperor hangs up his shield on the tree and the Golden Age - without hunger, illness, and death - will come. This visionary end time myth includes medieval prophecies of a future important emperor. Additionally, roots for the Untersberg myths also lie in the old germanic imagination, that heroes do not die, but are removed into mystic empires of the mountains, until they reappear and form new and prosperous empires.

Opera: Der Untersberg Johann Nepomuk Baron of Poissl (born 15.2.1783 in Haukenzell, Lower Bavaria, died 17.8.1865 in Munich)
Der Untersberg (30.10.1829 Munich)

Late again! (as usual - went back for the popcorn!)
Just read through the whole thread and links, excellent stuff.

Keep it coming Sky, well deserved accolades for your research and presentation.

H

I´ve found some more info on the trio that went missing in 1987:
According to the "official" version, the trio left their car at the parking lot to continue their trip by train after having climbed the Untersberg. They planned to climb another mountain in Villach (in Austria - close to the slovenian border).

On the mountain, they crossed the yugoslavian border (remember - 1987!)by accident. Unfortunately, the couple´s friend forgot her passport in the car, and out of fear of the yugoslavian border patrol they continued their odyssey southward and finally ended up in Egypt (!).

Rescuers found a shirt on Untersberg and concluded that it must belong to one of the missing climbers. And because usually entrances into caves are marked by a piece of clothing, they concluded that the missing climbers must have descended into a mysterious cave, whose entrance is only open under certain circumstances.

Source:
www.morgaine-avalon.de... (in German)

For me, this "official" version sounds even more implausibale than the mysterious interpretation of the event.... How on earth do you end up in Egypt while trying to flee from yugoslavian border patrol???

Fascinating thread

Does anyone have any more info on the Dalai Lama's interest in this mountain? What led him to call it the 'heart chakra of the planet'?

books.google.com... hSMYY1d_rg#PPA129,M1


This is the book online. An occult tale of adventures in the untersberg.

Peace, truth & joy.

-RA

I´ve just found a follow-up article about the trio. It appeared in the same newspaper as the article on page 1:

www.tz-online.de...

I don´t have time to translate the entire article, but in short it says that apparently the trio has never been on the mountain. They made it look like they got lost on the mountain in order to cover their trip to the middle-east. Seems like they just wanted to leave everything behind and start a new life somewhere else. But after three months, they realised that this is not the life they want to live and returned to Germany.

So, it seems like at least this myth has been busted.

www.tz-online.de...

Also about the Lost 3 folks in 1987, also in german.
It mentions the lost passport, but nothing about the fear of an yugoslavian border patrol. Its just hitchhiking here. While 1987 yugoslavia was a communist country it was not behind the iron curtain and was no stranger to tourism (at all) (and not yet in civil war)

so while a missing passport would maybe have meant some extra hassle at the border her ID card should have been sufficient.

Also Carinthia is very hard to reach by train from salzburg. You got to go via vienna and graz, taking something around 8-10 hours.

continued from opening post


3. Time Travelling Dwarfs & Underground Tunnels

Strangely, most of the old myths, legends and fairy tales surrounding the mountain (and there are hundreds of them, ranging back many centuries) involve

* Dwarfs or "Little People"

* Phenomena of Missing-Time or Time-Travel

This is unusual because the legends and tales from other areas do not feature dwarfs and missing time as their main plot. The following section contains ancient folklore and legend only even if the descriptions resemble the modern day "greys" of UFOlogy.

The following excerpts are summarized and translated from 18th Century books on German Mythology by various authors. Some of them are also featured on plaques near the site and in historical accounts of museums.

This is only a very small part of the old accounts, more to come.




This ancient germanic text found on an 18th Century Plaque near the mountain says that the "Untersberg People" are dwarfs, very ancient, knowledgable about magic, good-hearted but sometimes mischiveous and mean. On their body they have a big head, smart eyes and grey skin.



...as she wanted to approach the little person, he suddenly dissappeared.



...in the area of Berchtesgaden (Untersberg), strange people appear that nobody has ever seen before. They are also strangely dressed.




...this basically says that the the farmers in the area believed that the drwarfs came from "inside the earth" or subterranean dwellings.




This says how some Lumberjacks met at 4 in the morning to travel to Salzburg (10 miles from Untersberg). As they walked, they witnessed around 400 "little people", all dressed the same wander into a crack in the mountain and dissappear behind it.




This text talks about a time of the “French Wars” and a French soldier who was stationed at Untersberg. He was once awoken at night by a “dwarf person” like he had never seen before. This dwarf was standing at his window asking him to open the the gates leading to a certain pass of the mountain. As he looked outside he saw several similar small people and dared not to follow the instructions to open the window. The small people ignored his refusal and marched through the gates anyway. The next morning the guy asked the locals about these little people and was told by the neighbourhood that they had heard the commotion and march.



This text reflects a common theme among the legends and stories: That the inside of the mountain is full of jewels, gold, glowing stones and other treasures.



continued next post

[edit on 25-8-2008 by Skyfloating]

continued from opening post

The following historical account from the 15th Century talks about missing time experienced by someone having entered the mountain. It also talks about Tunnels leading from a mountain under a lake called "Konigssee" (Kings Lake) to a church there. As I will later show there is evidence of tunnel-systems in the area and they knew that hundreds of years ago!

The "Kings Lake":








This says that in 1529 a guy called Lazarus Aigner took a hike up the mountain in the company of the mayor and parish priest of a nearby town. Below one of the peaks of the mountain they found a little chapel that was worked into the rock and silver inscriptions that they could not read or decipher. Having returned back home the priest couldn’t get the inscription out of his mind and asked Lazarus to return back to the place and copy the words. The inscription: S. V. R. G. E. T. S. A. T. U. M.
Dusk had fallen and Lazarus thought it would be better not to go back down the mountain but stay overnight. That was on Wednesday evening. He slept well and woke up on Thursday morning feeling refreshed. Some time had passed on his way down when he encountered a barefoot monk carrying a keychain and reciting from a prayer book. Lazarus was amazed and ask him where he is from and where he is going. The monk told him he´d like to give him something to eat and also reveal to him what the silver writing found at the chapel means. The monk led the way to an iron door worked into the mountain and opened the iron door with one of his many keys.



Lazarus entered without fear. The Monk asked him to put down his hat and never ever to mention the place to anybody but to listen and look carefully. Upon entering the space inside the mountain Lazarus saw a tower with a golden clock and the monk ask him to take careful note of the lock and what time and hour it showed. It was 7 o`clock. Lazarus describes buildings, trees, fountains, rare fruits, and a gigantic church or temple-like structure… (Im skipping sections of the story which describe a choir of people singing in that church and the monk leading lazarus through various buildings and structures and inviting him to dinner and wine)

lazarus story continued next post

[edit on 25-8-2008 by Skyfloating]

im honestly not sure what to make of this, it sounds fantastic but, if even half of what you say is true about the time portals and the big eyed big headed grey "dwarfs" thats enough to warrant most sane people not to go near it. if people keep vanishing, some never to be heard from again, then its kind of scaring me personally off the idea of having a romp however well armed i may be through this apparently vast network of potential answers. good find though will keep watching this thread

lazarus story continued from last post



.
After the meal the monk lead him to a library. When Lazarus asked who all the people were that were living here the monk said that they are “old souls who had done well in their life and will defend mankind in the endtimes”. In the books Lazarus found the same inscriptions he could not decipher and didn’t understand any other books either because they were written in Latin.

The monk also showed him 12 doors. Of these doors he said that they lead to 12 surrounding churches. They took one of the doors which led through an underground tunnel to one of the churches in a place called St. Bartholoma. This tunnel also lead under a lake called “Königssee” – Note: This church is famous for very strong geomagnetic anomalies, more on this later.

The monk made note that they had to reach these churches secretly, without being detected by outsiders.

I am skipping a part that describes visits to other churches and also Lazarus realization that some of the people inhabiting the mountain are deceased people and kings who died long ago.




On the 7th day of his stay the monk gave Lazarus the choice to stay or go back home. Lazarus missed his home and the monk accompanied him out, asking him, once more, to look at the clock. It was exactly at the same hour it had been when he arrived: 7 o´clock. The monk explained that “no time had passed” although Lazarus knew 7 days had passed. The monk said: “If you wish to live, then don’t tell anyone what happened to you for 35 years. You may reveal it after 35 years. Now go in peace”

Exactly 35 years later Lazarus wrote his story down, and died only a few days after.


The church at "Koenigssee" from which, according to ancient legend, tunnels lead to and from Untersberg:




[edit on 25-8-2008 by Skyfloating]

To people U2Uing me about sources for the Dalai Lama quote:

This was reported on in regular German and Austrian Newspapers. You can find german-language reports by typing into google "Dalai Lama" + Untersberg.

I repeat: These quotes were not reported on in underground-UFO-Mags, but in normal daily newspapers.