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Measles is back, and it's because your kids aren't vaccinated

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posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 02:42 PM
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reply to post by mzrti
 


I work in a doctors office and I have given countless vaccinations over my 2 years here, and I have never ever seen or heard of a child that i have vaccinated to have autisum all of a sudden. I believe that parents should indeed get their children vaccinated.




posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 03:01 PM
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what are you worrying about if you're vaccinated?


i thought vaccines conveyed immunity, therefore you could sit ina room full of sick people and come out just fine, right? if not please elaborate.



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 03:14 PM
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reply to post by GradyPhilpott
 


Diseases that cull the population are natural and healthy to the species.

We should purposefully try to not infringe upon Natures plan for keeping balance in the World.



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 03:44 PM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by GradyPhilpott
 


Diseases that cull the population are natural and healthy to the species.

We should purposefully try to not infringe upon Natures plan for keeping balance in the World.


When nature tells me that directly and unambiguously I will accept it. I won't accept it from a mason who, if rightly represented, is only one degree away from satanism


Yes, you also have a credability problem...



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 03:47 PM
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reply to post by pexx421
 


Great to hear that! I'm in my 50's, many vaccinations weren't around when I was a kid. So we got sick, never heard of anyone that died from measles or any other childhood illness. We all did fine. Only difference is that back then we ate healthy food, no junk food & soda pop was a rare treat! We also spent much time in the great outdoors, hardly ever watched tv & didn't sit on our butts much. People need to wake up & take charge of their own well being. Don't leave it to someone else to decide what's good for you.



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 03:52 PM
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Originally posted by gormly

Originally posted by Zepherian
Here's a cogent argument against *some* vaccinations: People are dieing and being damaged by them. Here's another one: there are alternative ways of killing diseases actively, rather than blanket protection.

And here's yet another one: the authorities you seem to believe 100% in, have a track record of both being wrong and blatently lieing about a number of health related issues.

If there was a more honest, non elitist agenda driven, health system in place in the western world I could live with vaccinations, but when questioned and investigated it becomes clear there is huge health issues around vaccinations and your scaremongering won't be able to conceal them.


This is a perfect example of why people on ATS (and like them) are never taken seriously.

Zero facts to back up a claim.. no substance only finger pointing, unsubstantiated claims and unfounded general "boogeyman" accusations.
Typical.

I for one, believe you are an unfit parent if you do not do your own research and figure out what side is actually "lying". All it takes is a bit of objective thinking to see what side omits facts to make their case, which side conveniently overlooks basic data and logic.

I will make no judgment either way here, do your own research but I'll tell you this.. Zepherian does his side of the argument no justice.


If you have failed to notice, there are plenty of substantive links thrown up in this thread already. Plus we live in the information age, where any person with an internet connection can source his own data. This gives me the freedom to cut to the chase and give an interpretation of what's happening based on my own years of data sourcing and interpretation of the social dynamics behind the whole elite - middle class war which I suspect is the root cause of all this.

Now, anyone is free to disregard my interpretation, but do not for one minute think it is based on absence of data. There is a deluge of data, and a lot of the data is people in influential positions hiding the true data which is pretty damning for the elites of this planet. Just because I choose not to bury my posts under links does not mean they are not researched and fully thought through.

If you want an academic bibliography in every post on ATS you might be setting the bar a bit above reasonable here.

And I will comment on your post too: I believe you know too damn well there is mountains of data on vaccinations and the crap going on, which is why you chose to descredit the person and not the issue, which is why you're singleing out posts with no links and ignoring the ones with links. Which is why you're ignoring the implicit fact that even in the OP the majority of the children infected with measels were vaccinated for it, which shows a failure of the system.

Just because I do not feel the need to link to external sources, do not underestimate my awareness and awakeness.



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 04:22 PM
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Originally posted by Zepherian
And I will comment on your post too: I believe you know too damn well there is mountains of data on vaccinations and the crap going on, which is why you chose to descredit the person and not the issue, which is why you're singleing out posts with no links and ignoring the ones with links. Which is why you're ignoring the implicit fact that even in the OP the majority of the children infected with measels were vaccinated for it, which shows a failure of the system.

Just because I do not feel the need to link to external sources, do not underestimate my awareness and awakeness.


And here's why it would be nice to be able to see your sources: You have misread the statistics in the OP. As I pointed out on page 7 of this thread, saying "at least 63 of the 131 cases were unvaccinated" is not in any way equivalent to saying that 68 of the cases were vaccinated. In 68 of the cases they do not know, or have not ascertained. In one case they have verified that the person infected had been vaccinated.

The trouble is neither the person nor the issue, but that you are misrepresenting the data you cite.

Edit: I did a little more poking around, and found the August 21 press release that the OP referenced article was based on. Here's the stats on vaccinated vs. unvaccinated measles patients.


Of the 131 patients, 112 were unvaccinated or had unknown vaccination status. Among the 112 unvaccinated U.S. residents with measles, 16 were younger than 12 months of age and too young for vaccination, and one had presumed evidence of measles immunity because the person was born before 1957.

Of the 95 patients eligible for vaccination, 63 were unvaccinated because of their or their parents′ philosophical or religious beliefs.


[edit on 25-8-2008 by americandingbat]



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 04:22 PM
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Ok, so let me get this straight. If you vaccinate your kids against measles, but some other kid does not get the vaccination, your kids vaccination is ineffective? I mean, that's what they're saying right? Blame it on the parents who don't vaccinate. Well, I'd ask, if the vaccinations are effective enough to eradicate the disease, what the hell are you worried about?

Unless...

Unless the vaccines effectiveness is, shall we say overstated.

Two children at my kids school contracted horrible cases of measles. Both of them had been vaccinated.

Two years ago, all but two children in my daughters class came down with Chicken Pox. My daughter was one of the two who didn't get infected. Neither my daughter, nor the other child who "dodged the bullet", had received the vaccination.

Food for thought:


"Looking at the statistics available for smallpox, polio, measles, and pertussis (whooping cough), we find that besides the fact that the incidence of these diseases was already declining before vaccination programs were enforced, the incidence actually increased once these programs were instituted. Some countries, looking at statistics showing this lack of efficacy and increase in disease incidence, together with deaths resulting from reactions to the vaccination, have terminated compulsory vaccination. When Australia did so in the case of the smallpox vaccine, smallpox virtually disappeared in that country (three cases in fifteen years). In the case of the polio vaccine, many European countries refused to systematically inoculate their citizens, yet polio epidemics also ended in these countries as well.

The measles vaccine was introduced in 1963, even though in the United States and England a greater than 95% decline in the measles death rate had already occurred between 1915 and 1958. Also, the death rate from measles in the mid-1970s (post-vaccine) was exactly the same is it was in the early 1960s (pre-vaccine). A study by the World Health Organization concludes that chances are 14 times greater that measles will be contracted by those vaccinated against the disease than by those who have not been vaccinated. The federal government reported in 1985 that 80% of the 1,984 cases of measles occurred in people who had been properly vaccinated. More recently, outbreaks have continued to occur throughout the country, sometimes among 100% vaccinated populations.

One particularly harmful effect of this continued use of a useless vaccine is that the disease now affects primarily a different age group. The peak incidence of measles no longer occurs in children, but in adolescents and young adults. As a result the risk of complications of pneumonia and liver abnormality have increased. Also, before the vaccine was introduced, it was extremely rare for an infant to contract measles. However, by 1993 more than 25% of all measles cases were occurring in babies under one year of age. The Centers for Disease Control anticipates a worsening of this situation and attributes it to the growing number of mothers who were vaccinated during the last 30 years, therefore passing on no natural immunity to their children.



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 04:37 PM
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reply to post by GradyPhilpott
 


I understand the worries of the vaccine and as a parent did only allow my child 1 dose of the vaccine, I was so aware that something was not right - every time I went to go get my son vaccinated there was always something on the the telly or radio saying it was bad - Your child is the most important thing and you want to protect him/her....................I decided my instinct was the best..



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 04:43 PM
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Wow so you actually believe that the MMR prevents you from getting measels???????
WRONG ANSWER!!!!!!!!!

I had my daughter vaccinated with the MMR back in 2003, she was apparently normal up until the vaccine, I asked if the vaccine could be done seperately if I paid for the seperate shots, I got a nasty nurse that refused and went ahead and vaccinated her anyway. Now my daughter has always had quite extensive reactions to any vaccines, (approximately 3-4 days of 104 degrees temperature, sickness and vomiting) Well after the MMR vaccine, approximately 5 days after she came down with full blown measels and less than a year later she was diagnosed with autism after her behaviour suddenly changed after the vaccination.

When it came to her preschool MMR vaccine not only did I refuse, because of her prior reaction and autism link they actively refused it on medical grounds.

So you can preach your pro-vaccine propergander all you want it still doesn't change the fact that the risks are great either way.



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 04:48 PM
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reply to post by americandingbat
 


No, the original link of the OP is missrepresenting the fact, by stating black and white that the lack of vaccination was the cause of the epidemic of this rather mild disease (yes, I've had it, didn't do much harm to me), when you have a higher number of children who's vaccination status is at the least not clarified.

As for my sources, do you honestly expect me to link every online article, every newspaper, every book and every conversation I have had with a person with a qualified opinion? "Give me proof" is a rhetorical trick to descredit the opinion of someone when you don't want to challenge the assertations directly.

Give me proof of some other cause of infant mortality and damage which is not linked to vaccination but yet coincides with it's time period. Give me a reason for the increased cases of cervical and other cancers in vaccination programs that were supposed to decrease them. I can play the give me proof game too.



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 04:51 PM
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There are pros and cons to most of the vaccines which are recommended so rabidly-- I mean-- avidly by mainstream media and educators. Some of the vaccines, however, are downright silly-- like the chickenpox vaccination. There is now a shingle epidemic, and I have read several research papers attributing that to the lack of natural immune boosts garnered by chickenpox survivors, from individuals with chicken pox.

The measles are rarely fatal or serious. Some scientists believe that measles was on its way out when the vaccine was introduced (same with polio, typhus, and diptheria) and there is little research to show that measles was in fact eradicated by the mass vaccinations.

What's interesting about that article, is that it mentions 130-something people having contracted measles, and yet only 60-something number of those individuals were not inocculated against measles.



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 05:20 PM
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reply to post by Zepherian
 


But see, I'm not arguing for or against vaccination. I am arguing for knowing what you're talking about.

Posts in this thread have asked for breakdowns of measles cases - how many, where, who. I've provided that information. Posters in this thread have repeatedly assumed that saying 63 out of 131 were known to be unvaccinated is the same as saying 68 were vaccinated. It is not. I have provided the breakdown. As I type this I can't see my previous post, but I think it said in all 95 were American citizens eligible for vaccination but unvaccinated or no vaccination records found. 63 is the number out of those 95 who had refused vaccination on religious or philosophical grounds.

It has been repeatedly asked "why don't they just get rid of the mercury?"

I have answered: they have. The only shots that still use thimerosal are certain flu vaccines. For what it's worth, if I had a child at the age of vaccination, I would want to check out the information about those flu vaccines.



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 05:29 PM
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The best 'easy' to find data i have so far read is from Andrew Maniotis ( PhDwho have standing to lose if he 'invented' the following 'vaccine timeline'.

If anyone are interested in reading a apparently comprehensive account here the link:

www.ddponline.org...

It's not a quick read but it contains a wealth of information.

( A draft letter of how to go about declining vaccinations is provided at the end)

and to this 'bloq'

scienceblogmd.com...

And yes, i have provided this document to family members and advised them against it but have not so far met with success. Even if you can convince the relative the spouse is a different matter altogether so while you can give the printed document without much ado a discussion before they read ( especially when there wasn't any interest to start with) it will very likely ensure that they never do. As i keep learning people would much rather not test their 'faith' in any serious manner.

sStellar



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 05:30 PM
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Originally posted by americandingbat
It has been repeatedly asked "why don't they just get rid of the mercury?"

I have answered: they have. The only shots that still use thimerosal are certain flu vaccines. For what it's worth, if I had a child at the age of vaccination, I would want to check out the information about those flu vaccines.


They have not.

here's some evidence: www.whale.to...

And while they're at it, why don't they get rid of the Formaldehyde, Antifreeze, Aluminium, Methanol, Polysorbate 20 / 80, and the rest of the chemicals, compounds, and bacteria that have no place in the bloodstream of a human being?



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 05:36 PM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck
Diseases that cull the population are natural and healthy to the species.


And any species with sense and intelligence enough does it bests to survive natures 'best attempts'. Have you seen how carnivores eat some plants to help them with certain ailments?


We should purposefully try to not infringe upon Natures plan for keeping balance in the World.


Nature does not have a plan but since i/we/you do make plans we can most certainly choose to affect a outcome more to our liking. If you purposefully don't want to infringe on nature's plan i suggest you build yourself a nice mud hut somewhere and see how well you do drinking untreated water and generally not 'disturbing' natures plan for you.
Maybe you can ask your older relatives, who have some experiences with 'nature', just how much they liked and if and why their generation struggled to improve their living conditions at all?

Stellar



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 05:37 PM
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For the majority of the population, yes, there is no excuse to not get your MMR or DPT. However, in a small percentage of the population (including myself) a high fever was present soon after the first set of vaccinations. Because of the possible link between certain conditions and early childhood vaccinations, I was never given the rest of the series of DPT vaccines.

Fast forward to a few years later. I came down with Pertussis (whooping cough) and spread it to a number of people because I could not be vaccinated for it. The question is: how did it spread so fast?

Most childhood vaccines wear off around age ten, and many adolescents and adults are no longer protected from the shots they had as a little kid.

Therefore, it's not the kids that should be vaccinated, it's EVERYONE, including adults, excluding those who have showcased reactions to having the vaccine.

And just in case no one actually looked it up:
Most measles cases in US since 1996
Update on Measles Outbreaks from the CDC

[edit on 8/25/2008 by ravenshadow13]



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 05:47 PM
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Originally posted by Unit541

Originally posted by americandingbat
It has been repeatedly asked "why don't they just get rid of the mercury?"
I have answered: they have.


They have not.

here's some evidence: www.whale.to...

And while they're at it, why don't they get rid of the Formaldehyde, Antifreeze, Aluminium, Methanol, Polysorbate 20 / 80, and the rest of the chemicals, compounds, and bacteria that have no place in the bloodstream of a human being?


Thank you for the link. I did notice that the press release is four years old, but I think what they did (raise money so that 4 vials of vaccine could be tested independently) is wonderful. The article does not specify whether the amount of mercury that could still be detected in the vaccines was significant but it does raise some valid questions.

As for all the other stuff, I'm assuming that was a rhetorical question. And I hope to continue to have chemicals (including sodium, oxygen, and potassium), compounds (including water, carbon dioxide, and phosphate ion), and (beneficial) bacteria in my body for many years to come.



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 06:02 PM
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reply to post by GradyPhilpott
 

I agree with you that a childs immune system should be strong enough at age 5 to fight these vaccines,But where do you get your facts? The cdc? The Ny york times? Oh how bout the fda! You can't trust these people. If measles was erradicated why did it reappear? Could be the existing vaccines. By the time a child has received all his shots he will have had a toal of approxamately I think 26 or more shots. I'll stick to experts such as Dr. len Horowitz



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 06:18 PM
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Originally posted by americandingbat

Thank you for the link. I did notice that the press release is four years old, but I think what they did (raise money so that 4 vials of vaccine could be tested independently) is wonderful. The article does not specify whether the amount of mercury that could still be detected in the vaccines was significant but it does raise some valid questions.

As for all the other stuff, I'm assuming that was a rhetorical question. And I hope to continue to have chemicals (including sodium, oxygen, and potassium), compounds (including water, carbon dioxide, and phosphate ion), and (beneficial) bacteria in my body for many years to come.


Yes, I hope to have sodium oxygen and potassium in my body too. I wasn't referring to the chemicals, compounds and bacteria that belong in the human body. I was referring to those that have no place in the human body, such as Formaldehyde. Many of the other compounds are known carcinogens.

And no, it's not a rhetorical question. I'd like to know why these dangerous substances are not removed from the vaccines.

As far as the amount of mercury discovered in the aforementioned study, when you're talking about Mercury, any amount is significant. Mercury is the second most poisonous element known to man, next to Uranium, and is not safe for humans in any amount.

Alright, for the sake of conversation, lets assume the vaccines are 100% mercury free. What about the rest of the toxins?
See here: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Back to measles however, many qualified individuals feel that some diseases, especially measles have been made more deadly by these vaccinations.
www.vaccinationnews.com...
www.vaccinationnews.com...



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