Measles is back, and it's because your kids aren't vaccinated

reply to post by GradyPhilpott


What disease or virus do you know of that has a mortality rate of 100%? That is probably the only instance where I could understand possible cause for vaccination. I would be interested in how this disease/virus came about though, because a 100% mortality rate is practically unheard of.

The dreaded bird flu...about 50%. Sure, its bad, but its not 100%. Sometimes these things are necessary to balance nature out.

Originally posted by whitewave
Pasteur himself finally admitted that it was not the germ but the environment (body) that caused disease. We have all sorts of nasty germs living in and on our bodies all the time even with decent hygienic practices and yet most of us do not succumb to illness easily. It's called an immune system.

Luckily medicine has come a long way since the days of Louis Pasteur (1822-1895)

As a nurse I was trained to never let another person draw up a medication and then expect me to either give it or accept responsibility for what was in that syringe that I didn't personally draw out of the vial myself. Yet that is exactly what getting vaccines entails. No thanks.

No, actually getting vaccines entails trusting the trained nurse or other medical professional giving the vaccine to accept responsibility for what is in that syringe. I would not trust myself to give myself a vaccine without significant training. By all means, ask if they are sure they have prepared the vaccine correctly, if it has been stored in appropriate conditions, if it is past its expiration date. If you believe your medical professional is lying to you, ask to see someone else, or to see the vial used.

As far as the question of illegal immigration contributing to the reappearance of diseases that had been nearly eradicated: perhaps the solution is to ensure that such people have safe, affordable access to vaccination for themselves and their children.

reply to post by GradyPhilpott


It's funny how I have not heard of any Measle outbreak in any particular area. I wish they would give all the specific details of it. Like, what cities are showing a major outbreak, how many kids, and what schools have reported them. It sounds like fabricated bologne to me.

reply to post by grimreaper797


I don't know the mortality rate of all the diseases and I'm not going to try to research the matter.

If you are suggesting that the human race would be better off without vaccines, who am I to argue with you?

I'm vaccinated and old enough to be out of here in twenty years or less.

The rest of you can live with the misery of pandemics, if you so desire.

If many of those on ATS are correct, the next one will be bird flu.

If that one hits before a vaccine is found, we'll see what the consensus is regarding immunization.

Good luck.


[edit on 2008/8/24 by GradyPhilpott]

I was never vacinated, and I turned out just fine. You know what the good part is? After I had measels as a kid I will never have them again.

No matter how much bullcrap medicin poors into our ears, it's amazing how little the really can say for sure about the body and why some people react in one way to a disease or "ill" lifestyle and others don't.
The body was build to maintain itself. But since we're dealing with a biological factory here and not something made by robots in a plant, you have to accept that there will be a number "misconstructions", people who will get sick from one thing or the other... that's life.

How many kids are born each second? Are you cry about a 1000... if there's one thing we can learn here is that they still know how to get to us.

Don't get me wrong. I feel with those who lose or I cry when I lose... and then my life moves on, because strangely enough, that's what life does.

Instead of crying about the 1000 that dies, how about rejoycing about the millions that live and grow strong, because their parents had their own vegetable garden where they grew natural things. That they let their child eat sand or earth just once or twice. That had a cat and maybe even a dog so that their bodies could adjust to the germs that come with that.

This is like coming home from the bank and naively tell your loved ones "oh boy, that banker really wants to help me!"... newsflash, no... he's trying to earn himself and the bank he works for money, and you know what, so are pharmacutical companies and privatised hospitals.

STOP trying to figure out how to cure diseases... start figuring out how to live healty!

Originally posted by Pocky
reply to post by GradyPhilpott

 

It's funny how I have not heard of any Measle outbreak in any particular area. I wish they would give all the specific details of it. Like, what cities are showing a major outbreak, how many kids, and what schools have reported them. It sounds like fabricated bologne to me.

Remember, Google is your friend.

During January 1--April 25, 2008, a total of 64 preliminary confirmed measles cases were reported from the following areas: New York City (22 cases), Arizona (15), California (12), Michigan and Wisconsin (four each), Hawaii (three), and Illinois, New York state, Pennsylvania, and Virginia (one each) (Figure). Patients ranged in age from 5 months to 71 years; 14 patients were aged 50 years, including one U.S. resident born before 1957.§

source

There are many other sites for information available if you type "measles outbreak us" into google. And that's not even going to medical and epidemiological journals where such things are most thoroughly discussed.


Edit to add: I'm vaccinated and young enough to be stuck with our world for fifty years or more

[edit on 24-8-2008 by americandingbat]

reply to post by americandingbat


Something inside me made me question this... Why is it that no public body that is not government related is created to co-maintain such information and be there in the process of writing down and confirming such info?

So the government is telling us that we need something because otherwise something bad will happen, and then we ask "has this happend before and can you prove it?" to which the government says, "yeah, ehm sure... take a look at the notes I wrote down."

"Did you do something wrong sir!?"
- "Ehm no... here's a note I wrote that says "I haven't done anything wrong""
"Ah good. Just checking.."

reply to post by GradyPhilpott

So far, no one has present one single cogent argument against vaccinations.

That's because there isn't one. If more people would spend time on PubMed looking up actual peer reviewed scientific literature on the subject rather than listening to these dime-a-dozen "concerned citizen" new-age homeopathic all-natural wanna-be-armchair-doctors then perhaps this wouldn't be a problem.

PubMed

Originally posted by flice
I was never vacinated, and I turned out just fine. You know what the good part is? After I had measels as a kid I will never have them again.

You were lucky, millions aren't. I'm 6'3 therefore everyone should be tall, anyone shorter must be doing something wrong.

Yeah, the same discussion is going on in the Netherlands. In Germany people even attend measles parties, to deliberately expose their children to measles. Which I think is absurd but I didn't vaccinate my child either, I did so for other more serious disease like polio but not for measles.

Measles is not a dangerous disease, even though governments want you to believe it is. In Europe the vaccination program for measles didn't start until 1978.
Complications of the measles can be dangerous but is very very rare. To end up with serious lasting effects after you suffered from complications is even more rare. The chances you die in a car crash is a million times more likely.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

Originally posted by Zepherian
...I think the bigger problem, at least at the current time, is the vaccines themselves being used for population control (=extermination and/or subjugation).

This thread seems to be another example of problem-reaction-solution, trying to get the herd to be vaccinated and thus weakened.

The fact that he/she is resorting to the argument of authority applied ad hominem to a poster who dared disagree with him/her makes me further question the intention of this thread.

It is a profound statement to suggest that vaccinations are for population control, given the millions who have died because there was no protections against disease. Even a cursory examination of the material available on the internet would confirm the misery endured by the human race until the advent of vaccinations.

I'm old enough to remember when polio was a serious threat and to have known those who suffered from the disease.

I think that pointing out a poster's lack of evidence or credentials is hardly a ad hominem attack.

I would like to hear as much disagreement as people are willing to provide, but I think that is not unreasonable to expect some data to support one's claims.

Autism is a devastating and heartbreaking disorder, but when people decide for themselves that a given course is the panacea for any condition and that course of action has the potential of resurrecting catastrophic diseases that could literally kill millions, then I think the promulgation of good, solid information is paramount.

I have, if you pay atention to my posts, met you half way. I am not against vaccination as a general principle and fully admit that, done right, it can be good. But you have to factor in the reality of our current socioeconomic, cultural and political climate, and these are, if you have read some of the threads flying around here, pretty complicated and brutal times, when all the dragons are showing their true colours.

Nobody is advocating bending over to epidemics that would kill millions. But vaccines have proved themselves to hardly being a panacea either, from autism to actual outbreaks of the diseases they are supposed to prevent, and then there's the elephant in the room, the contaminated vaccines which have cancer viruses.

I am not going to do people's research for them, I usually post opinions. However, I will recommend a book that will at least raise questions: Dr Mary's Monkey. Google for it.

And yes, dismissing someone's post based on his supposed lack of qualifications on an open and public forum is an ad hominem, it's the same as saying "you're not smart and experienced enough to have an opinion", which in the face of the actual post is clearly false.

You're position can be valid in isolated cases, but it is a simplification of the vaccination issue which is multifaceted and tough to deal with, as it seems to encompass everything from disease erradication to attempted genocide.

Originally posted by Lasheic
reply to post by GradyPhilpott

 

So far, no one has present one single cogent argument against vaccinations.

That's because there isn't one. If more people would spend time on PubMed looking up actual peer reviewed scientific literature on the subject rather than listening to these dime-a-dozen "concerned citizen" new-age homeopathic all-natural wanna-be-armchair-doctors then perhaps this wouldn't be a problem.

PubMed

Now you know that is blatantly false, and another simplification of the issue.

There is tons of paid for scientific literature that just don't hold up in the court of common sense and popular experience.

Autism, Cancer. Two B - I - G bloody arguments.

[edit on 24-8-2008 by Zepherian]

reply to post by Zepherian


You say that vaccines do more harm than good.

I'm asking for evidence.

Opinion is opinion.

We're in a good, but precarious position when so many cannot only remember the horror of massive death due to communicable disease, but for whom the argument for immunization is lost.

It is even more precarious when urban legend holds more sway than empirical evidence.

That says quite a lot.

Grimreaper, certain kinds of cancer have death rates that approach 90%+ but then again there are also other types of cancer with survival rates of 90%+.

Most liver and kidney diseases have a 100% death rate as all that can be done is to slow down the progression though some people respond better then others and basically have the disease "contained".

I believe Cystic Fibrosis is in the same category as liver and kidney disease.


Honestly though we will never be able to cure cancer but I am convinced that we will (within the next decade) see forms of treatment that will lead to much higher survival rates in general. Look at HIV, less then a decade ago people with HIV rarely lived more then 10 years now its believed that they will live a normal lifespan thanks to newer and better treatment - look at Magic Johnson for example. The problem is that the "cocktails" are very expensive.

Show me the long term studies on the possible side effects of vaccination....please....I've been looking for them and wow...they seem to be under a rock cause I can't find any....except for the ones that are short term and claim no harm no foul....

I had German measles when I was a young child - sick for a month - survived as did all my friends...it damaged my kidneys...which I also survived...so I'm not saying that these diseases are not serious...far from it....but the medical establishment has pushed vaccination and anti-biotics to the point where our immune systems are losing their ability to fight on their own....and guess what? The last time I was in hospital I contracted the MRSA - the super bug - and was on intravenous delivery(thats where they insert an artificial vein into your arm that goes right to your heart for drug delivery) of the most powerful anti-biotics known to man in order to fight it for months!- the result is I may be colonized now and am a huge risk for further surgery so now my condition is inoperable.... thank you so bloody much...

How convenient is it that its suddenly come back with so many concerned about the horrible poisons they're deliberately putting in the vaccines, and refusing them. Suddenly its come back? Well, I must say, I believe this is a deliberate act to try enforce childrens health being dimished via vaccinations. In other words, THEY did it!

reply to post by GradyPhilpott


Then read the book I linked, it's not like I left you high and dry, is it?

reply to post by mystiq


The logical flaw in claiming that the reemergence of measles is proof that "they" have reintroduced measles to frighten us because we're beginning to refuse vaccinations is obvious. The predicted result of lowered rates of vaccination is a reemergence of the disease. This has happened. It is proof of nothing -- it is consistent with the idea that vaccination is effective.

Is the argument against vaccination that it doesn't work in addition to having other problems, or would you agree that vaccination does accomplish the desired goal, which is to reduce the incidence of communicable diseases by enabling our immune systems to develop their antibodies against the microorganisms responsible in a controlled manner. In which case the problem is not vaccination per se but who is doing the vaccination?

edit to add: it seems to me that the issue of antibiotics and antibiotic-resistant bacteria is off topic for this thread, no?

[edit on 24-8-2008 by americandingbat]

I would like to interject a personal story which may help those of you that are hesitating vaccination of your children.

My sister was stricken with Polio during the 1956 epidemic in Boston Mass. area. She survived, but many did not. She is 69 years old now, and suffers from some remaining affect after all these years. She is a big advocate of all immunizations.

It just so happens that my Grandson is Autistic. He is seven years old, and falls in about the middle of the spectrum. Needless to say, our family have done a lot of research into the subject, and there is absolutely no proof of any cause of the recent large numbers of Autism being diagnosed.

My Grandson, Gunnar, has two younger brothers that are perfectly normal. We, as a family, tossed around every scenario we could think of when making the decisions of to vaccinate the boys or not.

But in the end, our choice was to vaccinate them all, but we did find a Doctor that would use the single dose vaccines, which are without any preservatives. We feel that we have done our best to protect the children on both fronts.

We know for certain that the immunizations are a safe-guard against catastrophic diseases. They will reemerge if we don't protect the population.

We are still with no answers to the question of autism. I personally believe that it is due to many factors, that need much more research. I think that a portion of the problem is that some children are genetically predisposed to the problem. My daughter-in-law has a cousin, who has a son close in age to Gunnar, who also is autistic.

I suggest that all parents immunize there precious little ones, with vaccines that are single dose, with no preservatives and no mercury.

Take all precautions. ALL PRECAUTIONS!!!!!!!!

reply to post by Zepherian

There is tons of paid for scientific literature that just don't hold up in the court of common sense and popular experience.

I don't care what people "believe" about the subject, or what they think they know. I care about what is accurate, what can be tested, measured, verified, and confirmed to be accurate. The studies in the peer reviewed literature are done by professionals under strict controls and have not only withstood the scrutiny of their peers, but have been confirmed by other independent experiments and studies.

What you think is common sense can often be very wrong. Much of it is based on misconceptions, urban legends, and old folk knowledge has has since proven to be untrue.

I'd rather not trust my child's fate to the kangaroo court of common (non)sense and "popular experience" (when in truth, the vast -VAST- majority of vaccine recipients show absolutely no side-effects and those who do often cannot be conclusively linked to the vaccine)